Should we trade Ed Oliver?

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have given up trying to understand Americans speaking English.

We aren’t the ones saying “innit” all the time.

[Perk71]

Yes

 

Go Bills!!

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have given up trying to understand Americans speaking English.

It’s not so much English, more so an obscure dialect there of…, at least that’s my take on it, 

[TC in St. Louis]

If they can get good value, I say trade him.  Or hypnotize him that every game is played on Thanksgiving.  Man likes turkey. 

 

He's in no position to make salary demands.  My guess is he was drunk when he posted that.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 hours ago, In Summary said:

Iff:

• he is not identified as one of the core players that you MUST have to win a Super Bowl, and
• his projected performance is not expected to meet his market value, and
• you can get a draft pick that allows you to get a player of the same value as a DT who doesn't get to the QB, is good against the run, but is otherwise undersized, then

Yes.   

 

Why might this not happen?  Beane/McDermott's loyalty to "their" players. 

never got the sense he was a complete fit to the culture philosophy. 

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

never got the sense he was a complete fit to the culture philosophy. 

What does culture philosophy mean?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

What does culture philosophy mean?

Just my impression, seemed like a ‘me’ guy, seemed like the coaches were a little put off by his attitude when talking about him as a rookie.  Didn’t seem to portray much humility with the Darnold comps.  

 

and show me the money? How about show up on Sunday. The guy was invisible in the playoffs and off and on during the season. 

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have given up trying to understand Americans speaking English.

Don’t blame us we didn’t in et this silly language 

[Negan]

I wonder how this team is going to get under the cap, when no moves have been made thus far and FA starting next week and have to be under the cap by March 17th.

 

[newcam2012]

26 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Just my impression, seemed like a ‘me’ guy, seemed like the coaches were a little put off by his attitude when talking about him as a rookie.  Didn’t seem to portray much humility with the Darnold comps.  

 

and show me the money? How about show up on Sunday. The guy was invisible in the playoffs and off and on during the season. 

Don’t blame us we didn’t in et this silly language 

I never got that impression. I never got an impression that he wasn't a team guy. 

 

Oliver isn't bad. He's serviceable but inconsistent. That happens when you are undersized. That's why he fell to rhe Bills. His size metrics were a glaring red flag in hindsight. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

I never got that impression. I never got an impression that he wasn't a team guy. 

 

Oliver isn't bad. He's serviceable but inconsistent. That happens when you are undersized. That's why he fell to rhe Bills. His size metrics were a glaring red flag in hindsight. 

 

The only extent to which Ed's size can even begin to be blamed for him never quite consistently playing to his top potential (though he has been better than almost the entirety of this board believes) is arm length. If he was a better finisher Ed would be about to get a top of the market DT contract. And it is legit to say sometimes QBs manage to escape where if his arms were an inch or two longer they'd be down. At the point of attack he had some issues as a rookie, but has more than held his own since despite being "undersized."

[machine gun kelly]

He has somewhat underwhelmed the last couple of years.  I never felt it was fair to compare him to Aaron Donald.

[Shemp]

I'm starting to feel like the defense is disintigrating and the offense too. First losing Edmunds and Poyer, next Oliver making big salary demands after his inconsistent play, now I'm reading about Hyde praising Justin Fields, then there's rumors about trading Basham and/or Epenesa...and the ongoing drama of 33 year olf Von Miller. Jordan Phillips injury problems...I'm sure there's more I'm missing...and they're all tweeting. Not to mention Diggs apparent displeasure with the organization and Allen with his huge salary taking up a lot of the cap.  Sounds to me like there's going to be lots of turnover this offseason.

 

Looking at the defense, I think it's time to acknowledge the Bills have screwed up drafting on many occasions. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I never got that impression. I never got an impression that he wasn't a team guy. 

 

Oliver isn't bad. He's serviceable but inconsistent. That happens when you are undersized. That's why he fell to rhe Bills. His size metrics were a glaring red flag in hindsight. 

Fell? To 9?  I thought his main knock was he played NT in college and his ability to transition to3-tech was a question mark. But he was a top ten pick.

 

all pro talent strength quickness and apparently pay aspirations. Just not that level of results. 

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

He has somewhat underwhelmed the last couple of years.  I never felt it was fair to compare him to Aaron Donald.

He was drafted higher! Maybe it should have been 

[JaCrispy]

8 minutes ago, Blah Blah said:

I'm starting to feel like the defense is disintigrating and the offense too. First losing Edmunds and Poyer, next Oliver making big salary demands after his inconsistent play, now I'm reading about Hyde praising Justin Fields, then there's rumors about trading Basham and/or Epenesa...and the ongoing drama of 33 year olf Von Miller. Jordan Phillips injury problems...I'm sure there's more I'm missing...and they're all tweeting. Not to mention Diggs apparent displeasure with the organization and Allen with his huge salary taking up a lot of the cap.  Sounds to me like there's going to be lots of turnover this offseason.

 

Looking at the defense, I think it's time to acknowledge the Bills have screwed up drafting on many occasions. 

I said it before- let the mini rebuild begin…👍

[SCBills]

17 minutes ago, Blah Blah said:

I'm starting to feel like the defense is disintigrating and the offense too. First losing Edmunds and Poyer, next Oliver making big salary demands after his inconsistent play, now I'm reading about Hyde praising Justin Fields, then there's rumors about trading Basham and/or Epenesa...and the ongoing drama of 33 year olf Von Miller. Jordan Phillips injury problems...I'm sure there's more I'm missing...and they're all tweeting. Not to mention Diggs apparent displeasure with the organization and Allen with his huge salary taking up a lot of the cap.  Sounds to me like there's going to be lots of turnover this offseason.

 

Looking at the defense, I think it's time to acknowledge the Bills have screwed up drafting on many occasions. 

Tyreek Hill wasn’t exactly a choir boy in chirping his way out of KC for a new contract.   
 

They simply let their top Safety and CB1 walk in Free Agency.  
 

Watch Micah Hyde on GMFB yesterday.  Dude bleeds for Buffalo. 
 

Diggs needs to stop talking, but it is what it is.  
 

Von got hurt. It happens.  He’ll be back and if anyone can come back ferociously at his age, it’s freaks like Von.  
 

Who cares if we don’t have any of the following next year … Edmunds, Poyer, Oliver, Basham, Epenesa … None of them, singularly, or in totality, drastically affect our Super Bowl chances.   In fact, I’d argue having them all back makes us less likely to accomplish that. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The only extent to which Ed's size can even begin to be blamed for him never quite consistently playing to his top potential (though he has been better than almost the entirety of this board believes) is arm length. If he was a better finisher Ed would be about to get a top of the market DT contract. And it is legit to say sometimes QBs manage to escape where if his arms were an inch or two longer they'd be down. At the point of attack he had some issues as a rookie, but has more than held his own since despite being "undersized."

Oliver is a nice piece and a good contributor. However, he is not a difference maker nor consistent enough to warrant a big contract. The Bills would be foolish to give him big money. 

35 minutes ago, Blah Blah said:

I'm starting to feel like the defense is disintigrating and the offense too. First losing Edmunds and Poyer, next Oliver making big salary demands after his inconsistent play, now I'm reading about Hyde praising Justin Fields, then there's rumors about trading Basham and/or Epenesa...and the ongoing drama of 33 year olf Von Miller. Jordan Phillips injury problems...I'm sure there's more I'm missing...and they're all tweeting. Not to mention Diggs apparent displeasure with the organization and Allen with his huge salary taking up a lot of the cap.  Sounds to me like there's going to be lots of turnover this offseason.

 

Looking at the defense, I think it's time to acknowledge the Bills have screwed up drafting on many occasions. 

I tend to agree with your sentiment. Let's wait and see what moves and pick ups the Bills make. Then we should have a clearer picture about the upcoming season. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Oliver is a nice piece and a good contributor. However, he is not a difference maker nor consistent enough to warrant a big contract. The Bills would be foolish to give him big money. 

 

I agree he hasn't consistenly been a difference maker. But he has in flashes. I think there are contracts that make sense for Ed. No idea what he is after, but I am open to keeping him. I am also open to trading him if they can get an OL piece in return. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Trade him.  Hopefully for a 3rd or 4th rounder....or in a package to get Henry/WR/OL

[DCofNC]

You absolutely trade him IF you can find a taker.  I said it when they did it, wasted 5th year option, should not do it.  Here we are, you have to pay a guy 25-50% more than market value and can’t o anything but offer to pay him more to make it better.

[SoCal Deek]

Time to move on from Ed, unfortunately. He’s severely underperformed from his draft status. 

[dorquemada]

9 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Trade him.  Hopefully for a 3rd or 4th rounder....or in a package to get Henry/WR/OL

 

Yeah if someone offers a 3rd or 4th for Oliver you take it, but nothing less than that.  I wouldnt expect it unless someone is desperate for DL help

 

Getting Henry in some kind of package that involved Oliver would be the type of white collar crime that usually lands you in jail for decades

[SCBills]

The constant squashed hope of checking this thread every time there’s activity, hoping there’s a linked tweet to something happening on this front.  
 

I still can’t get over his social media post about “show me the money”.    If Diggs wants to throw temper tantrums, whatever… Ed Oliver!? Ha!!..get out of here man..

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

The constant squashed hope of checking this thread every time there’s activity, hoping there’s a linked tweet to something happening on this front.  
 

I still can’t get over his social media post about “show me the money”.    If Diggs wants to throw temper tantrums, whatever… Ed Oliver!? Ha!!..get out of here man..

He's one of those players who will do nothing for a very long time, then suddenly, finally, make a play...and then he dances around and struts like he's getting 5 sacks a game.

 

This guy sucks, and he's a bust.

 

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

I'm concerned Beane and Sean will extend him 

[dorquemada]

10 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

He's one of those players who will do nothing for a very long time, then suddenly, finally, make a play...and then he dances around and struts like he's getting 5 sacks a game.

 

This guy sucks, and he's a bust.

 

 

 

 

Not sure he sucks, but without Von Miller or a Von Miller analogue drawing blockers, he's never going to be a game wrecker.  I have close to zero faith in the current regime to draft well on the DL so the question becomes, if they don't sign/extend Oliver (and I think they wont), who amongst us think that they'll draft a competent replacement?  They're completely in love with undersized high motor guys with Groot being an exception

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Fell? To 9?  I thought his main knock was he played NT in college and his ability to transition to3-tech was a question mark. But he was a top ten pick.

 

all pro talent strength quickness and apparently pay aspirations. Just not that level of results. 

He was drafted higher! Maybe it should have been 

Fanhood, you make a point, butdraftpositin doesn’t guarantee performance s a captain obvious take.

 

If we can get something substantial for him, I can live with it.  I don’t want to lose him, but if needed and makes a stronger team, then do it.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Trading Oliver for draft picks in this draft would be pure stupidity. I'd rather let him play out and take a 3rd round comp pick and hope that 2025 (when that comp pick would come due) is a better draft than this one.

 

If you trade him now you trade him for a vet OL or WR who is going to help you immediately in 2023.

 

[SCBills]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

Trading Oliver for draft picks in this draft would be pure stupidity. I'd rather let him play out and take a 3rd round comp pick and hope that 2025 (when that comp pick would come due) is a better draft than this one.

 

If you trade him now you trade him for a vet OL or WR who is going to help you immediately in 2023.

 

You trade him for a 3rd, because we only have six draft picks and need cheap talent .. but more importantly, it rids us of his 10M+ cap hit, allowing us to be in play for another vet OL or WR 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, SCBills said:

You trade him for a 3rd, because we only have six draft picks and need cheap talent .. but more importantly, it rids us of his 10M+ cap hit, allowing us to be in play for another vet OL or WR 

 

6 picks in this class are too many. It's crap. 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

6 picks in this class are too many. It's crap. 

Im more than fine extending Daquan Jones and then replacing Ed with a Day 2 bigger body DT.  
 

Use his cap hit on offense.  
 

Extend Jones and replace Oliver, so we aren’t going into ‘24 with zero DT’s under contract. 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

but more importantly, it rids us of his 10M+ cap hit

 

But then we'd have to pay a starting 3T which would cost us $5 million at the low end. I know Oliver has been disappointing relative to his draft pick but he has shown enough flashes to let him play out the 5th year. He is still a starting caliber 3T with upside. His play is worth a lot more to us than whatever small cap savings we'd get by replacing him.

[LABILLBACKER]

44 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

He's one of those players who will do nothing for a very long time, then suddenly, finally, make a play...and then he dances around and struts like he's getting 5 sacks a game.

 

This guy sucks, and he's a bust.

 

 

 

I'm afraid you're right. He's exactly like Gabe. One good game followed by 3 mediocre. I'd trade them both for a 3rd each. It's not like we're keeping them. 

[uticaclub]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Trading Oliver for draft picks in this draft would be pure stupidity. I'd rather let him play out and take a 3rd round comp pick and hope that 2025 (when that comp pick would come due) is a better draft than this one.

 

If you trade him now you trade him for a vet OL or WR who is going to help you immediately in 2023.

 

Beane doesnt play the comp pick game. He’ll sign a bunch of vets that will cut in training camo so we wont get extra picks

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But then we'd have to pay a starting 3T which would cost us $5 million at the low end. I know Oliver has been disappointing relative to his draft pick but he has shown enough flashes to let him play out the 5th year. He is still a starting caliber 3T with upside. His play is worth a lot more to us than whatever small cap savings we'd get by replacing him.

$10M isnt a small cap savings

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But then we'd have to pay a starting 3T which would cost us $5 million at the low end. I know Oliver has been disappointing relative to his draft pick but he has shown enough flashes to let him play out the 5th year. He is still a starting caliber 3T with upside. His play is worth a lot more to us than whatever small cap savings we'd get by replacing him.

What’s the plan right now?  Jones, Oliver, Settle and….

 

Why can’t that be Jones, Day 2 Pick, Settle and….?

 

And fwiw, I wouldn’t even be opposed to trading Oliver for a Day 2 pick and then paying a few million more for someone like Hargrave. 
 

Go heavy on OL day 2 by multiple picks or a trade up for the guy we target. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im more than fine extending Daquan Jones and then replacing Ed with a Day 2 bigger body DT.  
 

Use his cap hit on offense.  
 

Extend Jones and replace Oliver, so we aren’t going into ‘24 with zero DT’s under contract. 

 

Extend a guy now who will turn 32 in-season? Nah. That is the wrong approach. Wait on Jones. If he plays well again you can work something out after next season. He wasn't a sough after guy age 30. The idea he is gonna have a massive market age 32 is for the birds. He is a guy that if you want to bring back you let go and do his due diligence in the unofficial negotiation period that basically starts at the combine. If he doesn't get an offer he likes you sign him about now... just before FA. Similar to their approach with Feliciano a couple of years ago. 

 

If the Bills are extending a DT it should be Ed Oliver. If they can use Ed to get a vet piece that can contribute now on offense, then I'm up for trading him. Using him to get a draft pick to spend in a bad draft class is making your team voluntarily worse. That's dumb. 

6 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Beane doesnt play the comp pick game. He’ll sign a bunch of vets that will cut in training camo so we wont get extra picks

 

If you cut them in camp they don't count towards the formula. 

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

What’s the plan right now?  Jones, Oliver, Settle and….

 

Why can’t that be Jones, Day 2 Pick, Settle and….?

 

And fwiw, I wouldn’t even be opposed to trading Oliver for a Day 2 pick and then paying a few million more for someone like Hargrave. 

 

We can't enter the draft without a starting 3T on the roster. Settle is barely a 2nd string 3T. The draft is a crapshoot even in a good year. So if we trade Oliver we have to pay someone else as a stopgap at the very least.

 

One example: Taven Bryan, who graded out lower than Ed Oliver in any metric or grading system I can find, has a projected market value of $6.6 million per year on Spotrac. He is probably the cheapest starting caliber 3T you could find. Maybe you sign him to a 2 year deal where the year one cap hit is lower and you end up saving $5 million on the cap compared to what Oliver would get. But now you've added to the cap issue in 2024. Is all of that worth it for a lesser player with less upside? For me it is not.

 

If we trade Oliver and pay Hargrave instead, sure that would make sense to improve the team, but I thought the point of this hypothetical move would be to reallocate resources from defense to offense. Now we're actually allocating more cap space to defense. Count me out on that idea, especially when we've already overinvested in the DL.

 

Trading Oliver for a draft pick just doesn't make any sense no matter how you slice it.

[DieHardBillsFan]

I think Ed Oliver is a very talented player. But the Bills should not invest in an undersized DT that cannot take on 2 blockers. He is very good if we have one with him, but on his own, he doesn't meet the need. He should be traded and the Bills need the BIG man to give the $$$ to.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Fanhood, you make a point, butdraftpositin doesn’t guarantee performance s a captain obvious take.

 

If we can get something substantial for him, I can live with it.  I don’t want to lose him, but if needed and makes a stronger team, then do it.

 

 

Absolutely agreed, draft position guarantees exactly one thing, high expectations. For that reason a Darnold like measuring stick was a high bar but not unfair imo.

 

I’m with you. If they could get say a third from a team that thinks he fits them, take it. 
 

[PrimeTime101]

I think the point is, you want something for Oliver and not nothing. Trading for picks in this draft class is NOT what you want... That being said... Just letting Oliver slide for nothing is not the answer either. So you Extend him or you Trade Player v Player

[Jay_Fixit]

15 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

We aren’t the ones saying “innit” all the time.

Right

Rite

Write

 

Yeah. Americans know (no) English.