No Joe Bus, Burrow did not surpass Allen based on yesterday

[appoo]

Joe Bus (whom I'm a fan of), in his weekly observations athletic article, said Burrow had surpassed Josh Allen. 

 

Now, you won't ever see me denigrate Joe Burrow. Awesome QB, and it's possible he is a better franchise QB than Allen. But using yesterday as the basis for that observation is an absurdity. 

 

In the regular season Burrow and Allen had the same amount of TD passes (Josh added a bunch of rushing TDs). 

 

This is who Burrow was throwing to:

Ja'Marr Chase (generational talent)

Tee Higginns (Borderline #1 Talent)

Tyler Boyd (possibly the best slot in the NFL)

Hayden Hurst (top 5 TE)

PLUS - Joe Mixon, a premier RB

 

This is Josh Allen's cast

Stefon Diggs - elite WR

Gabe Dabis - wildly inconsistent, only caught 50% of his targets

Cornucopia of sadness at the slot

Dawson Knox - a TE the OC didn't really want in the game plan, but otherwise a top 5 TE

PLUS - the run game, and I'll let that stand on it's own

 

This is just unfair to Allen. Again is Burrow supremely talented, and is possibly better than Allen? Possibly! Using yesterday's game as evidence? Because Joe could simply operate the offense in a fairly easy way with an outstanding run game vs Allen having to play superman in overcoming horrible OLine play, and a hugely average WR corps, and an unused run game? 

 

That is the hottest of hot takes

Edited January 23, 2023 by appoo

[CDogg20]

Burrow is a stud.

 

so is Allen.

 

i hate to say it but until proven otherwise its Mahomes at the top then Josh and Joe as 2a and 2b

[appoo]

1 minute ago, CDogg20 said:

Burrow is a stud.

 

so is Allen.

 

i hate to say it but until proven otherwise its Mahomes at the top then Josh and Joe as 2a and 2b

I think that's the correct take, but not remotely what Joe was saying

[DrDawkinstein]

He's not completely wrong.

 

Any fan can make arguments for Mahomes, Burrow, Allen being 1-2-3 in any order. Burrow stays cool and gets the job done, Allen is all over the place.

 

Chase missed a handful of games too (at least 4 I believe).

[GoBills808]

It's a dumb take but it's going to persist until they figure out a way to win more consistently in the post season

[appoo]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

He's not completely wrong.

 

Any fan can make arguments for Mahomes, Burrow, Allen being 1-2-3 in any order. Burrow stays cool and gets the job done, Allen is all over the place.

 

Chase missed a handful of games too (at least 4 I believe).

There's a reason Allen is all over the place. He doesn't get the protection, or playmakers, that Burrow has

[CDogg20]

1 minute ago, appoo said:

I think that's the correct take, but not remotely what Joe was saying

Give Josh those weapons the narritive is different in his eyes. Ughhh i’m still bitter 🤣

Edited January 23, 2023 by CDogg20

[appoo]

Just now, CDogg20 said:

Give Josh those weapons the narritive is different in his eyes. Ughhh i’m still butter 🤣

Give Josh those weapons and I'll give you an offense that could average 40 a game

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, appoo said:

There's a reason Allen is all over the place. He doesn't get the protection, or playmakers, that Burrow has

 

Protection? Not familiar with Cincy's OL, eh?

[thenorthremembers]

He isnt a better regular season Quarterback.   But its starting to get really hard to argue the kid isnt better in the playoffs.  He is 5-5 in playoff games, and is one game away from being in his 2nd Super Bowl.  When QBs are remembered long term, no one brings up their supporting casts at the top of the argument.    By the end of next year we could be talking about Burrow being a better all around QB, but at the moment it goes Mahomes then Allen.

 

Like it or not, the national narrative around Josh right now is whether he is the next Philip Rivers.

Edited January 23, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[Aussie Joe]

How some dude ranks them means SFA really..

[appoo]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Protection? Not familiar with Cincy's OL, eh?

They basically bought a new OLine this offseason, that until the playoffs stayed healthy through out the season. It was terrible coming out of traIning camp, having never played with each other, and better towards the end of September, and until it was a very good unit by the end of the season. When Burrow wasn't protected well, they looked awful

[Beach]

some fans worry too much about how some guy ranks something

[appoo]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

He isnt a better regular season Quarterback.   But its starting to get really hard to argue the kid isnt better in the playoffs.  He is 5-5 in playoff games, and is one game away from being in his 2nd Super Bowl.  When QBs are remembered long term, no one brings up their supporting casts at the top of the argument.    By the end of next year we could be talking about Burrow being a better all around QB, but at the moment it goes Mahomes then Allen.

 

Like it or not, the national narrative around Josh right now is whether he is the next Philip Rivers.

He was hugely average last year's playoffs. This year is quite different

[Pirate Angel]

7 minutes ago, appoo said:

Joe Bus (whom I'm a fan of), in his weekly observations athletic article, said Burrow had surpassed Josh Allen. 

 

Now, you won't ever see me denigrate Joe Burrow. Awesome QB, and it's possible he is a better franchise QB than Allen. But using yesterday as the basis for that observation is an absurdity. 

 

In the regular season Burrow and Allen had the same amount of TD passes (Josh added a bunch of rushing TDs). 

 

This is who Burrow was throwing to:

Ja'Marr Chase (generational talent)

Tee Higginns (Borderline #1 Talent)

Tyler Boyd (possibly the best slot in the NFL)

Hayden Hurst (top 5 TE)

PLUS - Joe Mixon, a premier RB

 

This is Josh Allen's cast

Stefon Diggs - elite WR

Gabe Dabis - wildly inconsistent, only caught 50% of his targets

Cornucopia of sadness at the slot

Dawson Knox - a TE the OC didn't really want in the game plan, but otherwise a top 5 TE

PLUS - the run game, and I'll let that stand on it's own

 

This is just unfair to Allen. Again is Burrow supremely talented, and is possibly better than Allen? Possibly! Using yesterday's game as evidence? Because Joe could simply operate the offense in a fairly easy way with an outstanding run game vs Allen having to play superman in overcoming horrible OLine play, and a hugely average WR corps, and an unused run game? 

 

That is the hottest of hot takes

Also our patchwork secondary against those WRs doesn't help. No Hyde, Poyers been banged up, Tres not back 100% yet, a few rookies, and an average Journeyman in Dane Jackson. Taron Johnson might be the only bright spot. 

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Protection? Not familiar with Cincy's OL, eh?

They brought in 3 olinemen this past season and they played the first 15 games together.

 

Meanwhile, we get Bobby Hart and settle.

Edited January 23, 2023 by The Wiz

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, The Wiz said:

They brought in 3 olinemen this past season and they played the first 15 games together.

 

And they werent good.

 

And we've been dealing with "Sugar Josh vs Angry Josh" for years.

 

Still love Allen, would commit crimes for him. But Burrow is far more consistent week in and week out. Never have to wonder which Joe is showing up.

 

Still love you, Josh!

Edited January 23, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[appoo]

Just now, Beach said:

some fans worry too much about how some guy ranks something

Fair, but it just annoyed me seeing Joe Bus write that in the immediate aftermath of yesterday's game.  

 

Allen is the only reason this team wasn't 7-10 or so

[Success]

I think most of America now has Mahomes/Burrow as 1a & 1b, and Allen being on top of the "2nd tier" QB's.

 

I don't really care. I'd still take Allen over anyone. 

 

[Beach]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

Fair, but it just annoyed me seeing Joe Bus write that in the immediate aftermath of yesterday's game.  

 

Allen is the only reason this team wasn't 7-10 or so

i agree with you on Allen.  I dont know who Joe Bus is, but i dont watch or read any media.  Sports media is designed for pointless debates and rankings so i just ignore it.  I dont know which QB is better, i just hope ours can win us a SB.

[Process]

Burrow is great. 

 

There is a reason bills and chiefs were Superbowl favorites all year. There is a reason that even after losing to the Bengals, they are the Superbowl favorites next year. 

 

It's not because the bills are a better team than the Bengals. 

 

There is still a large gap between Mahomes/Allen and everyone else. They are special and can do things no other QB can.

 

Burrow is in a much better situation. Like, it's not even comparable to what Allen has. Much better coaching. Much better weapons. Much better o line.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Process

[KDIGGZ]

Who cares? This guy is better than that guy and blah blah blah. Just win a Super Bowl in my lifetime and the rest will work itself out

[ngbills]

I am not ready to say this yet but...

 

Allen is looking like a boom or bust QB. Does he need chaos? Broken plays? Backyard style football? Problem with that is a good scheme and disciplined team will not make as many mistakes. Allen still misses or throws bad passes on some of the simple stuff. The quick screen and the quick hitch etc. He has lapses in taking the check-downs than a traditional QB will take. 

 

I still wont trade him for everyone. But after many of the games this year some of these concerns are valid. 

[Calidiehard]

16 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

He isnt a better regular season Quarterback.   But its starting to get really hard to argue the kid isnt better in the playoffs.  He is 5-5 in playoff games, and is one game away from being in his 2nd Super Bowl.  When QBs are remembered long term, no one brings up their supporting casts at the top of the argument.    By the end of next year we could be talking about Burrow being a better all around QB, but at the moment it goes Mahomes then Allen.

 

Like it or not, the national narrative around Josh right now is whether he is the next Philip Rivers.

He is just as close to being considered a 2 time Superbowl loser. 

16 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

He isnt a better regular season Quarterback.   But its starting to get really hard to argue the kid isnt better in the playoffs.  He is 5-5 in playoff games, and is one game away from being in his 2nd Super Bowl.  When QBs are remembered long term, no one brings up their supporting casts at the top of the argument.    By the end of next year we could be talking about Burrow being a better all around QB, but at the moment it goes Mahomes then Allen.

 

Like it or not, the national narrative around Josh right now is whether he is the next Philip Rivers.

He is just as close to being considered a 2 time Superbowl loser. 

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, Calidiehard said:

He is just as close to being considered a 2 time Superbowl loser. 

He is just as close to being considered a 2 time Superbowl loser. 

Better to show you can get there than to constantly fail in advancing there at all.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

I am not ready to say this yet but...

 

Allen is looking like a boom or bust QB. Does he need chaos? Broken plays? Backyard style football? Problem with that is a good scheme and disciplined team will not make as many mistakes. Allen still misses or throws bad passes on some of the simple stuff. The quick screen and the quick hitch etc. He has lapses in taking the check-downs than a traditional QB will take. 

 

I still wont trade him for everyone. But after many of the games this year some of these concerns are valid. 

 

Allen is looking like a boom or bust QB... because we have an OC who refuses to give this offense an identity, or setup our guys to succeed, or know how to calm Josh down.

 

I dont consider myself to be any type of Xs and Os expert, but I know I have a better gameplan for yesterday than Dorsey. And that is not good.

1 minute ago, Calidiehard said:

He is just as close to being considered a 2 time Superbowl loser. 

He is just as close to being considered a 2 time Superbowl loser. 

 

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

Better to show you can get there than to constantly fail in advancing there at all.  

 

Perfect. The Bengals had to lose a couple SBs back to back before the Bills started their run last time too.

[Mango]

23 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

He's not completely wrong.

 

Any fan can make arguments for Mahomes, Burrow, Allen being 1-2-3 in any order. Burrow stays cool and gets the job done, Allen is all over the place.

 

Chase missed a handful of games too (at least 4 I believe).

 

Burrow is the better prototypical passer. Allen is the better athlete/footballer. 

If Burrow had some Allen in him, or Allen could harness some of the things Burrow does well, they'd be.....Mahomes.

[Drew21PA]

He did a while ago

 

sorry

 

i love Josh but burrow is also really good and surpassed him going to a superbowl 

[Teddy KGB]

It’s 

 

mahomes 

burrow

allen 

 

as top 3 with eagles fans waiting to bump Allen for Hurts 

[buffalobillswin]

Allen had too many turnovers this year. For this year alone both Burrow and Mahomes were better. 

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, appoo said:

Joe Bus (whom I'm a fan of), in his weekly observations athletic article, said Burrow had surpassed Josh Allen. 

 

Now, you won't ever see me denigrate Joe Burrow. Awesome QB, and it's possible he is a better franchise QB than Allen. But using yesterday as the basis for that observation is an absurdity. 

 

In the regular season Burrow and Allen had the same amount of TD passes (Josh added a bunch of rushing TDs). 

 

This is who Burrow was throwing to:

Ja'Marr Chase (generational talent)

Tee Higginns (Borderline #1 Talent)

Tyler Boyd (possibly the best slot in the NFL)

Hayden Hurst (top 5 TE)

PLUS - Joe Mixon, a premier RB

 

This is Josh Allen's cast

Stefon Diggs - elite WR

Gabe Dabis - wildly inconsistent, only caught 50% of his targets

Cornucopia of sadness at the slot

Dawson Knox - a TE the OC didn't really want in the game plan, but otherwise a top 5 TE

PLUS - the run game, and I'll let that stand on it's own

 

This is just unfair to Allen. Again is Burrow supremely talented, and is possibly better than Allen? Possibly! Using yesterday's game as evidence? Because Joe could simply operate the offense in a fairly easy way with an outstanding run game vs Allen having to play superman in overcoming horrible OLine play, and a hugely average WR corps, and an unused run game? 

 

That is the hottest of hot takes

Burrow didn’t pass Allen yesterday, he passed him before that. It’s up to the Bills and Allen to move back up that list past him and Mahomes, but right now that’s how it is.

[DapperCam]

Bengals were playing the correct offense for having a garbage o-line. Quick passes and power straight ahead running.

 

The Bills have a similarly garbage o-line but instead go for slow developing runs and slow developing downfield passes.

 

Guess who had more success?

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Allen is looking like a boom or bust QB... because we have an OC who refuses to give this offense an identity, or setup our guys to succeed, or know how to calm Josh down.

 

I dont consider myself to be any type of Xs and Os expert, but I know I have a better gameplan for yesterday than Dorsey. And that is not good.

 

 

Perfect. The Bengals had to lose a couple SBs back to back before the Bills started their run last time too.

 

I think Dorsey likes Allen's big play ability. But boom or bust is also part of who Allen has been going back to Wyoming.

It is what it is at the moment. He will likely never be the type of passer Burrow is but still a great QB for the Buffalo Bills.
 

[appoo]

2 minutes ago, buffalobillswin said:

Allen had too many turnovers this year. For this year alone both Burrow and Mahomes were better. 

Maybe, just maybe, Josh was taking more risks because he KNEW he had to take more risks, resulting in more INTs AND more ridiculous positive plays and TDs?

 

Like what's the record is Allen just hit open downfield shots, got rid of the ball within 3-4 seconds or under, and settled for checkdowns?

 

My prediction would be a 500 team

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Mango said:

 

I think Dorsey likes Allen's big play ability. But boom or bust is also part of who Allen has been going back to Wyoming.

It is what it is at the moment. He will likely never be the type of passer Burrow is but still a great QB for the Buffalo Bills.
 

 

Oh, for sure it's part of who he is naturally. But that's why it's up to the OC to get that under control, and build gameplans and call plays that keep it in check. Which Daboll figured out, but Dorsey hasnt.

[FireChans]

28 minutes ago, appoo said:

They basically bought a new OLine this offseason, that until the playoffs stayed healthy through out the season. It was terrible coming out of traIning camp, having never played with each other, and better towards the end of September, and until it was a very good unit by the end of the season. When Burrow wasn't protected well, they looked awful

They made the Super Bowl last year. 

[appoo]

Wins aren't a QB metric

[Mango]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Oh, for sure it's part of who he is naturally. But that's why it's up to the OC to get that under control, and build gameplans and call plays that keep it in check. Which Daboll figured out, but Dorsey hasnt.

 

I think Dorsey is calling the plays, but Allen is taking the shots downfield anyways. At least that is the way it looks via A22. I think this is where Dorsey and Daboll go their separate ways, Daboll would chew Josh out in those moments. Dorsey seems to relish Allen's physicality.

 

Allen is so clunky throwing underneath. It always comes late into the play and the WR, RB, TE etc always seems to be flatfooted by the time he throws the ball. Neither OC puts Allen under center often. Daboll said it helped Josh read the defense better. But it is year 5 and Allen still never takes snaps from under center and is still one of the worst QB's in the league against zone. I think both are a big reason why the underneath stuff looks clunky. It isn't just long developing plays, it is taking too much time to process and he bails himself out with athleticism.

One thing I never seem to see Dorsey call is the curl routes that Allen used to love throwing to Diggs. 

[Royale with Cheese]

33 minutes ago, appoo said:

They basically bought a new OLine this offseason, that until the playoffs stayed healthy through out the season. It was terrible coming out of traIning camp, having never played with each other, and better towards the end of September, and until it was a very good unit by the end of the season. When Burrow wasn't protected well, they looked awful

Burrow went to the Super Bowl with last years line.

[TheFunPolice]

It is what it is. QBs are judged on getting to and winning Super Bowls and we're always told "yeah buts" are for losers. 

 

Burrow has an excellent chance at appearing in his 2nd consecutive SB and going 4-0 vs Mahomes and the Chiefs, with 2 of those wins being in KC in the AFC Title Game. 

 

That is FAR more than Allen has accomplished, as much as we love Allen. It is what it is. IF that happens AND the Bengals win the SB he is tied with Mahomes in rings and is 4-0 head to head. 

 

Brady is the "GOAT" because teams he was the QB of won 7 Super Bowls. All-time HC (who we're now going to pretend was carried by the player), all-time great defense early on, but ALL BRADY. When they lose it's a team game though. 

 

Meanwhile, Manning, who "only" won 2 out of the 4 Super Bowls he went to is a guy who "can't win the big games" yet has 2 rings and held every single passing record until Brady played an extra 5 years after Manning retired.

 

BTW Manning STILL owns the single season TD record (55) and passing yards record (5477 yards) in a 16 game season. Even with 17 games that TD record hasn't really been challenged. Yardage has, but still stands. 

 

Brady went 16/27 for 145 yards and 1 TD his first SB win. He was voted MVP for that (because his team won)!

 

Having that early success (which was ALL BRADY, totally carried Belichick and the D) was a huge part of the horror show that became Brady's career. He was a winner. The pressure was off before it was ever on. 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by TheFunPolice