A day later, I'm still in the camp of cleaning house.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Here's why: 

 

1) draft malfeasance: starting with the atrocious decision to to draft an undersized DT in the top 10 (a guy who's been rotational and not game changing in any way instead of a top offensive talent on the line or receiver) and ending with drafting a CB who isn't a scheme fit and therefore really didn't contribute all that much, Brandon Beane has failed in the draft post 2018. That failure was a DIRECT contributor to the divisional round ceiling this team now has. 

 

2) misplaced loyalty: McDermott is loyal. I get it. He doesn't want to throw his guys under the bus. Star L, Trent Murphy, Leslie Frazier, I could go on, but why? The man can't recognize cancer and lets it fester.

 

3) complete lack of situational awareness: this coaching staff is incapable of seeing the forest for the trees and is all too willing to continue doing what isn't working on and off the field in the name of continuity.

 

4) defensive malpractice: for guys who claim expertise in defense, this team's defense sucks, on ice. It's a worse version of the colts finesse defense under Dungy. It plays zone 90% of the time but can't stop a third and long if their lives depended on it. I'm over the soft zone. Time to go. 

 

5) it's just time. Sometimes a guy comes in, cleans house, gets things working. A guy may succeed in that job, but find himself incapable of taking the next step. That's Sean McDermott. He's a great culture builder and I mean great. But he's hit his ceiling..bring someone in who can get the job done. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[Teddy KGB]

They ain’t it,   Thanks for drafting Josh Allen now hit the bricks you bums 

[entropyrules]

While it will probably never happen I wonder if they changed the D and O coordinators and replaced them with more imaginative coordinators (such as the two Cinci has) whether the existing talent on the Bills is good enough to make a SB run. The team just doesn't seem to have the talent (outside of Allen, Diggs and Milano) to stack up against the other playoff teams. In another thread I proposed jettisoning almost everyone to obtain a boatload of draft picks, get out of salary cap hell and simply sacrifice a year or two of winning football. Having said that I may be wrong and its simply the schemes and coaching as the OP has proposed. Who knows - oh well at least the Sabres seem to be on their way back up.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

If you lose but still have hope for the future, it's easier to move on. But, this morning, my hope for the future is gone. I genuinely believe we won't sniff a Super Bowl with McD. When it gets to this point, ownership needs to start thinking about changes that will restore hope.

[jamiezzz]

Get rid of them all.  IMO, Sean has taken us as far as he can.  

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

If you lose but still have hope for the future, it's easier to move on. But, this morning, my hope for the future is gone. I genuinely believe we won't sniff a Super Bowl with McD. When it gets to this point, ownership needs to start thinking about changes that will restore hope.

Not just coaching, which is relatively easy to change. That group of guys lacks the violent edge to actually win in this sport. I don’t know how you change that.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Will the Buffalo media hold Beane to account with tough questions and not let him off the hook.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not just coaching, which is relatively easy to change. That group of guys lacks the violent edge to actually win in this sport. I don’t know how you change that.

I can think of four, maybe five guy on this team who have the "want it." The rest could all go for all I care 

[Mrbojanglezs]

I support cleaning the coaching staff out but I would keeping Beane around at least for the beginning stages of a new regime I think McDermott has a lot of influence on the direction of Beanes draft picks

Edited January 23, 2023 by Mrbojanglezs

[McBean]

24 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Here's why: 

 

1) draft malfeasance: starting with the atrocious decision to to draft an undersized DT in the top 10 (a guy who's been rotational and not game changing in any way instead of a top offensive talent on the line or receiver) and ending with drafting a CB who isn't a scheme fit and therefore really didn't contribute all that much, Brandon Beane has failed in the draft post 2018. That failure was a DIRECT contributor to the divisional round ceiling this team now has. 

 

2) misplaced loyalty: McDermott is loyal. I get it. He doesn't want to throw his guys under the bus. Star L, Trent Murphy, Leslie Frazier, I could go on, but why? The man can't recognize cancer and lets it fester.

 

3) complete lack of situational awareness: this coaching staff is incapable of seeing the forest for the trees and is all too willing to continue doing what isn't working on and off the field in the name of continuity.

 

4) defensive malpractice: for guys who claim expertise in defense, this team's defense sucks, on ice. It's a worse version of the colts finesse defense under Dungy. It plays zone 90% of the time but can't stop a third and long if their lives depended on it. I'm over the soft zone. Time to go. 

 

5) it's just time. Sometimes a guy comes in, cleans house, gets things working. A guy may succeed in that job, but find himself incapable of taking the next step. That's Sean McDermott. He's a great culture builder and I mean great. But he's hit his ceiling..bring someone in who can get the job done. 

 

 

 

 

Yes to all points.

 

I’ve been on the fire McDermott train since AFC Champ game 2020.

 

He’s a perfect coach for a Houston or Carolina organization right now.

 

He won’t take you from good to great tho.

 

We are going to waste the best player to ever put a Bills helmet on. Legit going to walk away without a Super Bowl because of our stupidity to fire a defensive HC who claps 24/7 and drafts nothing but crap defensive talent every year.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Will the Buffalo media hold Beane to account with tough questions and not let him off the hook.

Lol no, of course not 

[Mr. WEO]

The "culture" he has built is of playoff chokers.

 

They need a new culture.  Or  no culture.  Just win baby.

[SCBills]

I thought taking a beat, sleeping on it.. maybe I’d be a bit more chill. 
 

I’m even more frustrated this morning.
 

Sweeping changes need to be made.  
 

Three years.  Three brutal losses in the Playoffs and no Super Bowl appearances. 
 

The current iteration of the Bills team needs to be over.  
 

That goes beyond just letting guys walk.  It means trading some guys and letting go of coaches..

 

I don’t want McDermott here anymore, but understand he likely will.. so make him step up and bring in new coordinators. 
 

Edited January 23, 2023 by SCBills

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I can think of four, maybe five guy on this team who have the "want it." The rest could all go for all I care 

Besides Diggs, Josh and Milano I can’t think of any. I want guys that will punch you in the face for looking at them. The Bengals have a bunch of those guys (Mixon, Apple, Hilton, Hendrickson) and we have none. You don’t have to like the guys on the team. I have never seen a Mixon jersey here, but they sure as heck are happy to have him today.

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The "culture" he has built is of playoff chokers.

 

They need a new culture.  Or  no culture.  Just win baby.

Exactly. Can we trade for Mixon?

[dorquemada]

12 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not just coaching, which is relatively easy to change. That group of guys lacks the violent edge to actually win in this sport. I don’t know how you change that.

 

I've never seen a softer DL in a playoff game before.  Blown up on every.single.play.   They made the substitute Cincy OL look like the 93 Cowboys

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Besides Diggs, Josh and Milano I can’t think of any. I want guys that will punch you in the face for looking at them. The Bengals have a bunch of those guys (Mixon, Apple, Hilton, Hendrickson) and we have none. You don’t have to like the guys on the team. I have never seen a Mixon jersey here, but they sure as heck are happy to have him today.

Exactly. Can we trade for Mixon?

Makes me think of Kadarius Toney.  
 

“He won’t fit the culture.”  “Can’t have a guy like that here”

 

You know who does want him?  The Chiefs.  Another in a long line of non-culture fits playing for teams we can’t beat when it matters. 

[BillyBilliams]

18 minutes ago, entropyrules said:

While it will probably never happen I wonder if they changed the D and O coordinators and replaced them with more imaginative coordinators (such as the two Cinci has) whether the existing talent on the Bills is good enough to make a SB run. The team just doesn't seem to have the talent (outside of Allen, Diggs and Milano) to stack up against the other playoff teams. In another thread I proposed jettisoning almost everyone to obtain a boatload of draft picks, get out of salary cap hell and simply sacrifice a year or two of winning football. Having said that I may be wrong and it’s simply the schemes and coaching as the OP has proposed. Who knows - oh well at least the Sabres seem to be on their way back up.

If you think changing the O and D coordinator will fix things, you’re delusional.  McD is a defensive guy.  If you don’t think he doesn’t sign off on the defensive schemes and the game plans, then I don’t know what to tell you.  He could very easily tell his coordinator to NOT throw a ***** 3rd and 2 deep shot knowing they’re punting if they don’t get it.  
 

Once again in the playoffs when the D is struggling and the O needs a spark, he PUNTED at the Bengals 41.  If you can’t trust Allen to get 10 yards in one play, then something is seriously wrong.

 

People here will be pissed at the takes, but I don’t care.  We’ll peddle with this crap for 2 more seasons, wasting away Diggs and Allen’s career, while the cap space gets tighter and tighter.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Besides Diggs, Josh and Milano I can’t think of any. I want guys that will punch you in the face for looking at them. The Bengals have a bunch of those guys (Mixon, Apple, Hilton, Hendrickson) and we have none. You don’t have to like the guys on the team. I have never seen a Mixon jersey here, but they sure as heck are happy to have him today.

Exactly. Can we trade for Mixon?

 

 

so he can get 8 carries in a Divisional playoff game?

[PetermansRedemption]

3 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

I've never seen a softer DL in a playoff game before.  Blown up on every.single.play.   They made the substitute Cincy OL look like the 93 Cowboys

This, IMO, is the most embarrassing part. At one point Cinci was down to one remaining starting caliber (maybe) offensive lineman. And we still couldn’t get any push or pressure. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

I don't disagree with the OP I think the Bills main problem is a very big lack of self-awareness and avoiding an honest assessment of reality.  And a resistance to making bold moves when bold moves are required.  That time is again now.

 

The Bills have a serous problem and it starts with management.  They've been peddling the idea of sustainability as a reason for not going "all in" but can anyone explain how this is sustainable?  They're up against the salary cap, but have lots of holes in the roster, along with having a lot of UFA's they won't be able to sign.  The last 4 drafts have been mediocre at best.  They've made questionable picks when you look at who else was on the board that lots of posters hear were screaming for them to pick instead.  Other players that have turning into good contributors for their teams.  How many times have they traded up and then picked the wrong guy?  Beane can't sell me on the idea that his approach to success is to prioritize the draft as a way to continually replenish and fill the roster with good players and then go out and draft poorly year after year.  Then react to these failures by signing lots of marginal veteran free agents to fill the gaps and blowing out the salary cap.  Explain to me again how that's a sustainable?  Management is batting around .180 here.

 

They have the best athlete and QB in the league but have failed to build an adequate offensive line for protection or surround him with enough weapons.  Absent Von Miller, they cannot generate a pass rush, the defensive scheme is unfit for playing the better teams, the secondary can't cover a pot of boiling water, and yesterday's performance looked like week one of preseason.  The big story was the Bengals had 3 starters on the offensive line hurt when the big story turned out to be that didn't make any difference.  

 

At a minimum Frazier has to go and McDermott needs to be willing to bring in another coordinator that's given some freedom to run their own system.  Others have suggested enticing Frank Reich to come in to take over the OC job.  I could get on board for that too.  But until I see them do some top down obvious changes needed and stop tweaking things at the lowest level on the roster, its an exercise in futility to think they're going to do anything differently.   

Edited January 23, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[Wayne Cubed]

I do think Beane moreso than McD should be the one seeing himself out the door.  It's pretty close though. These 2, for some reason that can't be explained, just do not want to help Josh out or worse, have no clue how to. There only solution seems to be finding RBs who they say they want to use as pass catchers and then proceed not to because the OC either is incapable or the player isn't good enough.

 

I don't even think getting rid of Frasier will change anything. This is McD's defense just so we are clear. 

[Low Positive]

Just now, SCBills said:

Makes me think of Kadarius Toney.  
 

“He won’t fit the culture.”  “Can’t have a guy like that here”

 

You know who does want him?  The Chiefs.  Another in a long line of non-culture fits playing for teams we can’t beat when it matters. 

If a Chiefs or Bengals player gets arrested, the team would bribe a judge and pay the legal fees. Look which teams are playing next Sunday.

[entropyrules]

1 minute ago, BillyBilliams said:

If you think changing the O and D coordinator will fix things, you’re delusional.  McD is a defensive guy.  If you don’t think he doesn’t sign off on the defensive schemes and the game plans, then I don’t know what to tell you.  He could very easily tell his coordinator to NOT throw a ***** 3rd and 2 deep shot knowing they’re punting if they don’t get it.  
 

Once again in the playoffs when the D is struggling and the O needs a spark, he PUNTED at the Bengals 41.  If you can’t trust Allen to get 10 yards in one play, then something is seriously wrong.

 

People here will be pissed at the takes, but I don’t care.  We’ll peddle with this crap for 2 more seasons, wasting away Diggs and Allen’s career, while the cap space gets tighter and tighter.

So basically you are in the camp that an entire coaching staff change is needed. I can't say it won't work or isn't needed - my point was whether the schemes are the problem or is it the quality of the players

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Besides Diggs, Josh and Milano I can’t think of any. I want guys that will punch you in the face for looking at them. The Bengals have a bunch of those guys (Mixon, Apple, Hilton, Hendrickson) and we have none. You don’t have to like the guys on the team. I have never seen a Mixon jersey here, but they sure as heck are happy to have him today.

I've said it forever: moral character on the football field is overrated.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

so he can get 8 carries in a Divisional playoff game?

He would get at least 16 because he would just rip the ball out of the QB’s hands and threaten to punch his sister.

[jaab1028]

The great Dan Marino went to the Super Bowl only once in his illustrious career,and that was in his second year as a pro.One shot and they lost.I'm afraid that the coaching situation as it stands right now will never get there.The team is regressing under the current leadership,discipline is lacking as well as game preparation.What I witnessed yesterday was atrocious,no excuse accepted!Teams in our division are getting alot better making more difficult to win the division.The Bengals had 3rd and 10,and our coach called timeout!That was the last straw for me.Bring in Sean Payton!

[Barnaby Wilde]

Frazier needs a pink slip, IMMEDIATELY and if I'm Beane brain, I offer McDermott the Defensive Coordinator job or there's the door.  Good luck and a handshake.

[Bob Jones]

17 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not just coaching, which is relatively easy to change. That group of guys lacks the violent edge to actually win in this sport. I don’t know how you change that.

This, times a million. When I watched the other playoff games, it was like night & day, seeing how all those other teams (especially the defensive units) were flying around, operating in absolute frenzy mode.

[Low Positive]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I've said it forever: moral character on the football field is overrated.

Not just overrated. It’s a detriment. This is a violent game and violence wins. 

[Chugga]

37 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

4) defensive malpractice: for guys who claim expertise in defense, this team's defense sucks, on ice. It's a worse version of the colts finesse defense under Dungy. It plays zone 90% of the time but can't stop a third and long if their lives depended on it. I'm over the soft zone. Time to go. 

 

 

 

I agree with everything else but give at least some credit to Dungy his defense made more sense than what we run.  When you have Freeney and Mathis on the edge (and not in some dumb rotation) eventually they’ll make a play.  Rousseau and Epenesa are not Freeney and Mathis.

I was blown away by how many times I saw our DE’s dropping back into coverage yesterday.  You had a backup o-line.  We shouldn’t have needed fancy looks.  Colts weren’t dropping Freeney into coverage on 3rd so that Gary Bracket could try his hand at pass rushing.

[BillzFreak]

7 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not just overrated. It’s a detriment. This is a violent game and violence wins. 

And that stay the course mentality mesaage he preachs on this team has worn thin imo. To do the same things over and over and watch a team especially yesterday just have there way with us has to put doubts in players heads on if what he is selling they should still buy. And if the team can't buy into that message why should we fans? 

Edited January 23, 2023 by BillzFreak

[Dirtyd415]

I haven’t seen it mentioned (granted I can’t keep up with all the posts) but people seem to be forgetting that  “Teddy Bear Terry” is solely at the helm for the time being.  He’s as soft as vanilla pudding, clams up if a camera/mic is on him, and the only emotion I’ve seen him display is tears.  Kim was the task master/alpha of the two.  Given that, I have zero faith that Terry is going to fire anyone, demand new coordinators, or even demand accountability.  

[BillyBilliams]

4 minutes ago, entropyrules said:

So basically you are in the camp that an entire coaching staff change is needed. I can't say it won't work or isn't needed - my point was whether the schemes are the problem or is it the quality of the players

well, they’re drafting undersized DL.  They’re drafting CB’s that are only zone players.  You can teach someone playing man to play zone, but not really the other way around.  It’s a physical scheme.  Doing this rotational bull#### in the playoffs is disgusting.  Elam missed FOUR drives because of this bull####.  Let the best players play!  That is a coaching issue.  Beane made up a good team, but he CANNOT miss on draft picks anymore.  He simply cannot.  We haven’t had a solid draft since 2018.  

[Bob Jones]

26 minutes ago, jamiezzz said:

Get rid of them all.  IMO, Sean has taken us as far as he can.  

Wait a minute now, there's a lot of people in here who think McD should get Coach of the Year award! 🙄

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I'm 50/50 on Sean, but replacing both coordinators is absolutely on the table for me. 

And someone needs to atone for these God awful draft picks. 

Boogie is the slowest pile of dung I've ever seen, and 57 and 91 are invisible. Those are huge misses on high draft picks. 

[Billsflyer12]

I agree that this team will never win Super Bowl with MCD as their head coach.  He doesn’t match the big moments and this era.

 

Yet, they arent going to do s**t.  They all will be back.

[Rebel101]

Agreed. McDermott, Dorsey, & Frazier. Or this team isn’t winning 

[RyanC883]

50 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Here's why: 

 

1) draft malfeasance: starting with the atrocious decision to to draft an undersized DT in the top 10 (a guy who's been rotational and not game changing in any way instead of a top offensive talent on the line or receiver) and ending with drafting a CB who isn't a scheme fit and therefore really didn't contribute all that much, Brandon Beane has failed in the draft post 2018. That failure was a DIRECT contributor to the divisional round ceiling this team now has. 

 

2) misplaced loyalty: McDermott is loyal. I get it. He doesn't want to throw his guys under the bus. Star L, Trent Murphy, Leslie Frazier, I could go on, but why? The man can't recognize cancer and lets it fester.

 

3) complete lack of situational awareness: this coaching staff is incapable of seeing the forest for the trees and is all too willing to continue doing what isn't working on and off the field in the name of continuity.

 

4) defensive malpractice: for guys who claim expertise in defense, this team's defense sucks, on ice. It's a worse version of the colts finesse defense under Dungy. It plays zone 90% of the time but can't stop a third and long if their lives depended on it. I'm over the soft zone. Time to go. 

 

5) it's just time. Sometimes a guy comes in, cleans house, gets things working. A guy may succeed in that job, but find himself incapable of taking the next step. That's Sean McDermott. He's a great culture builder and I mean great. But he's hit his ceiling..bring someone in who can get the job done. 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s really McD’s stubborness that is causing these issues. I think you can find a great culture coach and coach open to strategic adaption. 

[schoolhouserock]

The Bills - regardless of what decisions are made - are likely to have more hiccups next season. This needed to be THE year. Future years are going to require more luck.

[GunnerBill]

I wouldn't fire anyone. But I do think this regime goes on the hotseat from here on in. 

 

They need a good draft and they need the things that have been perennial issues - offensive line and lack of ability to pressure the passer in big spots - to be better next season. 

 

I might be in clean house territory next year if they can't get those things done. I agree this group has totally revitalised a moribund Bills franchise. But there is a legit question about whether they are the folks to get us over the hump. 

 

It isn't even about record next season, or how far they go in the playoffs for me. It is about can the two things that for the three competing years (2020, 2021 and 2022) have hamstrung us actually look different. If they can't and the team falls short again then I think they need to be willing to consider different leadership.