2023 Bills

[hondo in seattle]

I'm already worried about 2023.

 

The Bills have $100m plus per year tied up in Josh, Diggs, Miller and Tre.  That seems like a winning formula.  The Bills brass have embraced the idea that the NFL is a passing league and so acquired a high-end QB, WR, pass-rushing DE and DB. 

 

But putting all your eggs in four baskets has its risks.  Josh played hurt for part of the season.  Tre missed most of the season and didn't play at his previous elite level when he did return.  Miller missed most of the season to include the playoffs.  And Diggs bromance with Josh seems to be fading.  With all that going on, we limped through much of the schedule and got destroyed in our final playoff game.  

 

And with so much money devoted to just four players, the Bills have the third fewest off-season resources according to PFF:

 

 

 

So how do we fix our secondary this offseason?  Or our DL?  Or, most importantly, our Offensive Line.  We have the best QB we've had since Kelly.  Maybe the best Bills QB ever.  But we don't bother to protect him.  It's not smart football.  And I'm not sure we can fix it.

 

Your ideas?

 

www.pff.com/news/nfl-evaluating-which-nfl-teams-are-best-set-up-for-the-2023-offseason

 

 

 

[MAJBobby]

You will get my ideas later. 
 

but short story

premier assets go to offense

OL

WR

OL

 

role players on defense 

[Bferra13]

Go balls to the wall on offense. Specifically oline and wr. Don't care about d anymore. 

[FireChans]

Let Poyer, Edmunds walk.

 

Trade Oliver to alleviate his fifth year hit. 
 

Trade a bunch of picks for proven offensive talent.

 

Make very few FA moves to maximize our compensation picks. 

[BB2004]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

You will get my ideas later. 
 

but short story

premier assets go to offense

OL

WR

OL

 

role players on defense 

 

 

I agree with this.  Adjustments need to be made, particularly on the offensive line.  The OL right now is simply not good enough. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens along the DL to see if we can stay patient with what we have (not including Miller) or if we move on and bring in new players.

 

 

[Big Turk]

Every team in the NFL deals with these risks eventually. It's a byproduct of how things work.

 

[hondo in seattle]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Every team in the NFL deals with these risks eventually. It's a byproduct of how things work.

 

 

And some deal with them better than others.   

 

Beane's doing okay - we're getting to the playoffs.  I'm wondering how he can do better and build a SB quality roster.  We don't have one right now.  

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

And some deal with them better than others.   

 

Beane's doing okay - we're getting to the playoffs.  I'm wondering how he can do better and build a SB quality roster.  We don't have one right now.  

 

I'd say if this game was played 100 times, today was probably the worst game out of the 100.

 

To say the roster wasn't SB quality is going a little far for me. Disappointed with how things ended? Sure. Not a SB quality roster? Hard to argue that when they were the 1 seed almost all year and ranked #1 by all 3 analytic rankings by a wide margin.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Joe Ferguson]

All that money and draft picks on defense didn't do ***** in the playoffs. Time to get offensive players to help Allen.

[Dr.Sack]

Moneyball time. 
 

Do we think there will be any surprise retirements Hyde, Miller, Tre, etc?

Edited January 23, 2023 by Dr.Sack

[Milanos Milano]

3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

All that money and draft picks on defense didn't do ***** in the playoffs. Time to get offensive players to help Allen.

This is where I’m at. Clearly our defense isn’t good enough. It’s time to go nuclear on the offense. Draft WRs and a bunch of OL. 

[Dr.Sack]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

This is where I’m at. Clearly our defense isn’t good enough. It’s time to go nuclear on the offense. Draft WRs and a bunch of OL. 

The Chiefs philosophy. 

[Big Blitz]

The spending was fine - mostly.  
 

The problem is the 2019-2021 draft classes are not helping.  Knox and Oliver.  That’s it. We paid Knox and he’s as polarizing as anyone.  Bass I guess.  
 

There isn’t ONE other player on this team on a rookie contract from those classes that we are like “we gotta keep him.”

 

 

Oliver?  No longer care. 
 

Singletary?  Sure for 2 mill per.  
 

AJ?

 

Davis?

Groot (needs a dominant 2023)

 

And??  
 

Beane blew those drafts so BAD.  

 

Point is some decent players - like most teams.  But no pro bowlers.  No good olinemen.  Terrible.  
 

But let’s keep trading down!!

 

 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Dr.Sack said:

The Chiefs philosophy. 

And it’s working. Look at Cinci as well. 3 well above average WRs. We have no answers for it, so we might as well get in a gunslinger fight. 

[iccrewman112]

57 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Let Poyer, Edmunds walk.

 

Trade Oliver to alleviate his fifth year hit. 

All the money from these players should go to 2 OL replacements.

Edited January 23, 2023 by iccrewman112

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

The spending was fine - mostly.  
 

The problem is the 2019-2021 draft classes are not helping.  Knox and Oliver.  That’s it. We paid Knox and he’s as polarizing as anyone.  Bass I guess.  
 

There isn’t ONE other player on this team on a rookie contract from those classes that we are like “we gotta keep him.”

 

 

Oliver?  No longer care. 
 

Singletary?  Sure for 2 mill per.  
 

AJ?

 

Davis?

Groot (needs a dominant 2023)

 

And??  
 

Beane blew those drafts so BAD.  

 

Point is some decent players - like most teams.  But no pro bowlers.  No good olinemen.  Terrible.  
 

But let’s keep trading down!!

 

 

Beane is officially on the hot seat. Just going to the playoffs isn’t good enough. Allen and the Diggs show is great, but that isn’t going to win a super bowl. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

I'm already worried about 2023.

 

The Bills have $100m plus per year tied up in Josh, Diggs, Miller and Tre.  That seems like a winning formula.  The Bills brass have embraced the idea that the NFL is a passing league and so acquired a high-end QB, WR, pass-rushing DE and DB. 

 

But putting all your eggs in four baskets has its risks.  Josh played hurt for part of the season.  Tre missed most of the season and didn't play at his previous elite level when he did return.  Miller missed most of the season to include the playoffs.  And Diggs bromance with Josh seems to be fading.  With all that going on, we limped through much of the schedule and got destroyed in our final playoff game.  

 

And with so much money devoted to just four players, the Bills have the third fewest off-season resources according to PFF:

 

 

 

So how do we fix our secondary this offseason?  Or our DL?  Or, most importantly, our Offensive Line.  We have the best QB we've had since Kelly.  Maybe the best Bills QB ever.  But we don't bother to protect him.  It's not smart football.  And I'm not sure we can fix it.

 

Your ideas?

 

www.pff.com/news/nfl-evaluating-which-nfl-teams-are-best-set-up-for-the-2023-offseason

 

 

 

We have to protect him at all costs. He's literally 85% of our offense. Draft OL until it hurts. Find a WR2 to eventually replace Davis. And for the love of God stop drafting failed defensive players or mediocre RB's.

[Big Blitz]

Success will continue if:

 

1.  Allen is still Allen - not near ceiling btw because - 

2.  Adjustment year with Dorsey - we all knew this would be an issue.  Today it was but he gets a B on his first year from me.  
3.  We use Knox like we pay him big money. 
4.  Gabe Davis breakout year

5.  Shakir becomes a solid slot WR

6.  Cook becomes worth passing on Walker or Hall.  He becomes our best RB since Shady. 
7.  Oline improves because we make changes 

8.  Miller Hyde Hamlin White all 100% and play the whole season.

9.  The 2023 draft is a success 

10.  Elam and Benford make huge leaps and we have a true no fly zone secondary 

 

 

As for Edmonds and Poyer.  I don’t know.  

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Blitz

[John from Riverside]

I’m tired of putting all the premium assets into the defense only to have it fall apart in the playoffs I’m just tired
 

If we could have knuckle down and run the ball today and won the line of scrimmage, we could’ve won

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Beane is officially on the hot seat. Just going to the playoffs isn’t good enough. Allen and the Diggs show is great, but that isn’t going to win a super bowl. 

I guarantee you he has nowhere close to being on the hot seat. Neither is McDermott. Just because you wanted to be doesn’t make it so.

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m tired of putting all the premium assets into the defense only to have it fall apart in the playoffs I’m just tired
 

If we could have knuckle down and run the ball today and won the line of scrimmage, we could’ve won

I guarantee you he has nowhere close to being on the hot seat. Neither is McDermott. Just because you wanted to be doesn’t make it so.

 

Frazier needs to go I'm afraid. He consistently has no answers in the playoffs with top shelf defenses during the regular season. Defense has sucked in last 3 playoff losses and basically looked inept.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Frazier needs to go I'm afraid. He consistently has no answers in the playoffs with top shelf defenses during the regular season. Defense has sucked in last 3 playoff losses and basically looked inept.

The defense looked bad enough today, that I am sure they are answering to the owners, but the coaches are going to point to the 13 and three record

[PauleeeWalnuts]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Let Poyer, Edmunds walk.

 

Trade Oliver to alleviate his fifth year hit. 
 

Trade a bunch of picks for proven offensive talent.

 

Make very few FA moves to maximize our compensation picks. 

This 

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

I'd say if this game was played 100 times, today was probably the worst game out of the 100.

 

To say the roster wasn't SB quality is going a little far for me. Disappointed with how things ended? Sure. Not a SB quality roster? Hard to argue that when they were the 1 seed almost all year and ranked #1 by all 3 analytic rankings by a wide margin.

It could have been far worse. We only had the one turnover despite being outclassed and outcoached everywhere.

This offense relies entirely too much on breaking games open with big plays, and when that doesn't happen we struggle.

This defense relies entirely on opposing teams beating themselves. I've never seen a less aggressive team with worse tackling, hitting, ball hawking, and pass rushing. They do nothing to an exceptional level.

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

And it’s working. Look at Cinci as well. 3 well above average WRs. We have no answers for it, so we might as well get in a gunslinger fight. 

That's certainly one way to classify them. 😂

[Another Fan]

I’d hope for less hype in the offseason.  It seemed the team burnt out at this point.  I think do to too much adrenaline early on.  For example

 

The Von Miller hype video

Josh celebrity golf tournament 

The pics on social media with Jim Kelly pretty much anointing him.   Fitz as well loving him 

 

Granted I don’t really follow the Bengals that closely but Joe Burrow seems to more quietly do his thing….   and he outplayed Allen 

 

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Frazier needs to go I'm afraid. He consistently has no answers in the playoffs with top shelf defenses during the regular season. Defense has sucked in last 3 playoff losses and basically looked inept.

It seems like there is no specific defensive game plan for an opponent.  You don’t often notice that they had their focus to stop any particular part of an opponent’s offense.  It seems the same defense every game and just go out and do your 1/11th.  When you had an inexperienced QB like Skylar Thompson for Miami, why didn’t you blitz him more instead of relying on a 4 man rush that doesn’t make a consistent difference.

[DrBob806]

The Bills presently are constructed like a Big 12 team, where the goal is to outscore the opponent. 

 

They're not alone in this philosophy, plenty of other teams do so. Doesn't mean it's correct.

 

Get a better interior D line for starters. The BenGals exposed that weakness. The Chiefs would have as well. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Remember the Bengals, Ravens, Chargers, and Jaguars all have QBs who will be paid significantly higher then Josh…his 43 million which is only 3 million a year more then Dak Prescott will seem like a bargain in two years 

[entropyrules]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

Let Poyer, Edmunds walk.

 

Trade Oliver to alleviate his fifth year hit. 
 

Trade a bunch of picks for proven offensive talent.

 

Make very few FA moves to maximize our compensation picks. 

totally on board with the maximize those comp picks - they can then use them to take flyers on OL and maybe get lucky and hit on 2-3

[TFBillsfan]

My belief going into 2023:

 

Move on from Frazier. Great guy but struggles mightily in the playoffs.

Oliver is going into his fifth year. He’ll be back

Poyer probably played his last game. Love his warrior attitude but the last half of the season he played hurt.

Not worried about the secondary as you have Tre, Elam, Benford, Jackson plus Hyde. Having a healthy Hyde and Tre can5 be understated.

Edmunds is the question mark…I’d still like to keep him but it has to be the right deal.

DL Isn’t getting it done plain and simple. Assuming DL coach is gone as well. Everything is basic bulrush with not much creativity. With that said a healthy DJone, Von, Groot and Ed is pretty solid. Having a healthy Jordan P is vital as well.

 

If you don’t sign Edmunds and Poyer you have two voids on D that will need addressed.

 

Offensively, address the two OG position. You need to hit on one in the draft that is a mainstay for the next 5 years.

Need another playmaking at WR with speed and size.

Lastly, Dorsey has to take a huge leap as an OC this offseason. You can’t expect Josh to be Superman every game. It’s not sustainable long term and it’s way too much pressure to be put on any one player. He has to establish an offensive identity. Better scheme for Diggs and Knox.

 

If there is a playmaker on the board in the late teens, early twenties I’ve moving up to get him. 

 

Id most likely move on from McKenzie, Saffold and DS. 

 

[TAinLack.]

7 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I'm already worried about 2023.

 

The Bills have $100m plus per year tied up in Josh, Diggs, Miller and Tre.  That seems like a winning formula.  The Bills brass have embraced the idea that the NFL is a passing league and so acquired a high-end QB, WR, pass-rushing DE and DB. 

 

But putting all your eggs in four baskets has its risks.  Josh played hurt for part of the season.  Tre missed most of the season and didn't play at his previous elite level when he did return.  Miller missed most of the season to include the playoffs.  And Diggs bromance with Josh seems to be fading.  With all that going on, we limped through much of the schedule and got destroyed in our final playoff game.  

 

And with so much money devoted to just four players, the Bills have the third fewest off-season resources according to PFF:

 

 

 

So how do we fix our secondary this offseason?  Or our DL?  Or, most importantly, our Offensive Line.  We have the best QB we've had since Kelly.  Maybe the best Bills QB ever.  But we don't bother to protect him.  It's not smart football.  And I'm not sure we can fix it.

 

Your ideas?

 

www.pff.com/news/nfl-evaluating-which-nfl-teams-are-best-set-up-for-the-2023-offseason

 

 

 

bye bye Edmunds.

[ALLEN1QB]

This team never has put an emphasis on OL big mistake IMO.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, DrBob806 said:

The Bills presently are constructed like a Big 12 team, where the goal is to outscore the opponent. 

 

They're not alone in this philosophy, plenty of other teams do so. Doesn't mean it's correct.

 

Get a better interior D line for starters. The BenGals exposed that weakness. The Chiefs would have as well. 

 

I mean that's not entirely accurate. They finished 2nd in the NFL in points allowed.

 

The problem is against good offenses, they don't look like that team. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

It could have been far worse. We only had the one turnover despite being outclassed and outcoached everywhere.

This offense relies entirely too much on breaking games open with big plays, and when that doesn't happen we struggle.

This defense relies entirely on opposing teams beating themselves. I've never seen a less aggressive team with worse tackling, hitting, ball hawking, and pass rushing. They do nothing to an exceptional level.

That's certainly one way to classify them. 😂

 

It's kind of amazing how often it works. That's not true either. They were exceptional this year at stuffing runs, led the NFL by a wide margin. Also led the NFL by a wide margin in forcing teams into 3rd and 11+ yards and 3rd and 7+ yards. Led the NFL in both of those by a wide margin also.

 

DaQuan was a huge loss. He was a force inside that allowed everyone else to get favorable matchups. However he would have mattered little yesterday.

[thenorthremembers]

8 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I'm already worried about 2023.

 

The Bills have $100m plus per year tied up in Josh, Diggs, Miller and Tre.  That seems like a winning formula.  The Bills brass have embraced the idea that the NFL is a passing league and so acquired a high-end QB, WR, pass-rushing DE and DB. 

 

But putting all your eggs in four baskets has its risks.  Josh played hurt for part of the season.  Tre missed most of the season and didn't play at his previous elite level when he did return.  Miller missed most of the season to include the playoffs.  And Diggs bromance with Josh seems to be fading.  With all that going on, we limped through much of the schedule and got destroyed in our final playoff game.  

 

And with so much money devoted to just four players, the Bills have the third fewest off-season resources according to PFF:

 

 

 

So how do we fix our secondary this offseason?  Or our DL?  Or, most importantly, our Offensive Line.  We have the best QB we've had since Kelly.  Maybe the best Bills QB ever.  But we don't bother to protect him.  It's not smart football.  And I'm not sure we can fix it.

 

Your ideas?

 

www.pff.com/news/nfl-evaluating-which-nfl-teams-are-best-set-up-for-the-2023-offseason

 

 

 

Bills can open up plenty of cap space by restructuring contracts.   That said, they need to go get guards and wideouts.  I am sick of paying defensive players.  

[OrangeBills]

Just pick up some more re-treads from the Carolina Panthers on the DLine, we'll be fine...

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

The defense looked bad enough today, that I am sure they are answering to the owners, but the coaches are going to point to the 13 and three record

 

They can't keep getting destroyed on D in every playoff loss. It's one thing if they lost and the D played well. But in all 3 losses it looked like they were the worst defense in football.

 

30 first downs?? They allowed the same number to KC last year in the playoffs.

 

It's embarrassing. The defense gets ultra timid and is so afraid of getting beat deep they give up constant free first downs underneath. I mean how many times did a Cincy receiver catch a ball with no Bill within 5 yards of him?? It was ludicrous.

 

There has to be a better answer than whatever they are attemtping to do. Teams that are worse defensively during the regular season seem to play much better in the playoffs...why do we always play worse??

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[HomeTeam]

8 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

You will get my ideas later. 
 

but short story

premier assets go to offense

OL

WR

OL

 

role players on defense 

Looking forward to this

[damj]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

I'd say if this game was played 100 times, today was probably the worst game out of the 100.

 

To say the roster wasn't SB quality is going a little far for me. Disappointed with how things ended? Sure. Not a SB quality roster? Hard to argue that when they were the 1 seed almost all year and ranked #1 by all 3 analytic rankings by a wide margin.

Agreed.

 

The problem is that the way this team is built to beat KC, not Cincinnati. They're built to stop downfield passing attacks, not QBs like Burrows who use a quick passing game.

 

Yes, this was probably the worst out of 100 hypothetical matchups ... but the Bengals probably come out on top 85 times out of 100

[Big Turk]

10 minutes ago, damj said:

Agreed.

 

The problem is that the way this team is built to beat KC, not Cincinnati. They're built to stop downfield passing attacks, not QBs like Burrows who use a quick passing game.

 

Yes, this was probably the worst out of 100 hypothetical matchups ... but the Bengals probably come out on top 85 times out of 100

 

KC doesn't rely on the deep ball very much either tho...Mahomes has a ton of short stuff, taking what they give you.

 

My biggest issue is the defense doesn't stop anyone in the playoffs when they lose.  They are a good to great regular season defense that gets bludgeoned in the playoffs against good offenses. 38, 42 and 27(going on 50) in their last 3 playoff losses.  That simply isn't good enough. Look at the SB Bills teams defense in the playoffs in big games. They performed far better than their rankings during the year(at least in the AFCCG).  

 

In the 4 AFC Championship games they played, the defense allowed 3, 7, 10 and 13 points.  They didn't need the offense to do much to win those games, they held it down. Bills allowed more points to KC in their lone AFC Championship game(38) than that era's teams allowed in all 4 combined(33 points)!  It's unacceptable and if McD REALLY wants to take a look in the mirror, he can't keep trotting Frazier out there on D in the playoffs. He needs to trade some regular season success for playoff success.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I'll embrace the heck out of being the underdog most of the year next year. Weren't the Bills favored in every single game they played in this season? Really miss flying under the radar. Division should be a real dog fight. Advancing to the divisional round will be a massive achievement rather than a failed season.