Conor Orr: Those 13 Seconds in Kansas City? How the Bills Got Over It.

[Thurman#1]

First, a warning. There's a lot of sports psychology stuff here on how to recover from disastrous outcomes and keep moving onward and up. If you don't like that sort of thing, I highly recommend reversing out of this thread.

 

So do me a favor, would you? If you're not willing to read it, pass by, horseman, yeah? In the whole first page of comments it looks like two people, maybe three, show they read anything. Which makes for conversation deep as a puddle on a flat piece of glass. So, if you're willing to read it, then feel free to blast it and me. If not, could you please head to one of the other threads available for your viewing pleasure?

 

Great article, IMO. Lots of Bills content.

 

Want to know why Diggs meets with Taiwan Jones before every game? Read the article. Wanna learn why people hang with Von at the lunch table? Read the article. Wanna learn just a bit about the sports psychologist for the Bills and Sabers? I didn't even know we had one till I read the article. 

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/10/14/psychology-of-how-bills-got-over-playoff-loss-to-chiefs

 

 

Subtitle:  "Last year’s heartbreaking playoff loss to the Chiefs might have stuck with us, but it didn’t stick with the Bills. The psychology of a team that moved on."

 

This excerpt is maybe 25% of the article:

 

 

                      ------------------

"In an effort to understand the mechanics of such motivation, Sports Illustrated reached out to a handful of mental health experts in the athletic space to talk about the most effective way to bury a loss on the magnitude of the “13 seconds” game. While there are different tools in any therapist’s belt, most agreed that a general acceptance of what happened, the open and honest discussion of feelings, an eventual focus on the positives gleaned from the process that brought them there and a constructive discussion on what could be learned from the moment was a formidable recipe. While we might all enjoy the idea of McDermott lying on a bed of spikes for 13 seconds or spending 13 seconds in a pit of live rattlesnakes to atone for various defensive and special-teams missteps at the end of the game, the prevailing idea is that the right processes could avoid the need for a grand gesture.

 

"What if, even when the outside world defines them by 13 seconds, the Bills don’t have to? Or, as Diggs puts it: 'If I hang onto it, it’s something that weighs me down. And I don’t like things weighing me down.'

 

"Dr. Mark Ayoagi, the co-director of sport and performance psychology and a professor in the graduate school of professional psychology at the University of Denver, spent time under three different coaching regimes with the Broncos. 

 

"While he is careful not to make any blanket statements about football players or athletes in general, there are some critical points to understand about the competitive brain. 

 

"The first is that, 'they have to have some baseline of mental health to have made it to this point [in professional sports],' he says. Years and years of high-pressure competition, winning and losing force them to moderate and not stake so much mental equity on one performance. 

 

“They know that if you’re on the losing side it sucks and the winning side it’s great, but that both of them are gone by Monday,” he says. 'They don’t carry this around like a fan might. Or through an entire offseason like a fan might. It’s not that they don’t care; it’s that they have more experiences dealing with it.'

 

"The second point: Ayoagi finds athletes to be in a better general headspace than the average population when sports performances are going well, but a lower general headspace when they are not. The issue, he says, is that many athletes feel they are unable to find a sympathetic ear due to the public knowledge of their high salaries and the perception that they can’t vent their frustrations because they play a game for a living. 

 

“'It’s like the question: Is sports more protective or exacerbating of substance use?' Ayoagi says. 'The answer is both. Athletes use less frequently, but when they use, they use more. It’s an analogy that holds true for mental health. There’s a lot of protective factors, but they also have a white-hot spotlight on them. And when they are not in a good space, all of a sudden their social support is gone. They can’t talk to anyone about this. [They think], who wants to hear from the guy with the $4 million contract?'

 

"The plus side to these heightened negative feelings is that even a brief intervention can yield positive results in helping an athlete reframe or reshape a difficult moment. Ayoagi, for example, utilizes the baseline theory behind acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT), which encourages patients to accept the fact that our brain throws weird, anxious, scary, grotesque or depressing thoughts, images and stories at us all the time, and learning to accept this default feature and pivot toward something personally meaningful is an effective way of combating stressors."

 

                   ---------------

 

 

This is maybe 25% of the article. Lots of more specific stuff on what Taiwan Jones, Von Miller, Diggs and McDermott do to work on the mindset of this team. Plus, did you know they have a sports psychologist named Dr. Desaree Festa, working for both the Bills and Sabres? I didn't.

 

Really good stuff, IMO.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Dan Darragh]

Psycho-babble

[Thurman#1]

52 minutes ago, Dan Darragh said:

Psycho-babble

 

 

It really isn't. 

 

But not liking this kind of thing? Fair enough. I knew there'd be reactions like this, it's why I included the warning.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Thurman#1

[LeGOATski]

I think it's an issue when a fan's reaction to a loss is worse than the players'. Or when fans hold onto it longer. Players are the ones actually involved with a real stake in the game; their career. We, as fans, should be able to let go relatively quickly. A win or a loss is not a reflection of our personal lives.

[loedward22]

24 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I think it's an issue when a fan's reaction to a loss is worse than the players'. Or when fans hold onto it longer. Players are the ones actually involved with a real stake in the game; their career. We, as fans, should be able to let go relatively quickly. A win or a loss is not a reflection of our personal lives.

I don't think you're taking into account the emotional investment that some fans have.

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, loedward22 said:

I don't think you're taking into account the emotional investment that some fans have.

I am taking it into account and saying that some fans take it too far.

[loedward22]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

I am taking it into account and saying that some fans take it too far.

Oh I see.  Yea, I'd say that's true especially when you hear about fans killing over soccer matches.  

[TBBills]

Still about 13 seconds... they got over it b.c it's a new season. End of story...

This guy needed your clicks so he put 13 seconds into the title. 13 seconds matter more to the media than the fans.

 

The article should say "Why media can't get over 13 seconds as well as fans or players do."

Edited October 15, 2022 by TBBills

[Repulsif]

It says players handle hartbreaking looses better than fans ?

huh

You should watch again Four Falls of Buffalo and the Scott Norwood part

[Your Brown Eye]

20 minutes ago, Repulsif said:

It says players handle hartbreaking looses better than fans ?

huh

You should watch again Four Falls of Buffalo and the Scott Norwood part

 

That's because his name is synonymous with Wide-Right for Bills fans. You're lying if you say that when you hear the name Norwood in any capacity or context you do not think of Wide-RIght. Anyone who knows football would not hesitate to answer the question "Who missed the game-winning field goal in Super Bowl 25?"  His "loss" was at the most inopportune time, if it happened at the AFC Championship game, he would never be the punching bag he is today. His name is beyond football.

[John from Riverside]

We’ll see how the Bills react to it on Sunday

[Billsatlastin2018]

How I won’t… until the Bills win the SB… inFebruary! 

[Matt_In_NH]

It’s a thing til you beat them in the playoffs.  Then it will have been gotten over.  

[Ayjent]

They don’t get over it as much as they use it productively.  The article does go there but buries it under some other premise of moving on.  I suppose it’s all semantics, really, saying that they don’t hold on to the pain and use it to focus, but I do think the pain is there it’s just the type of pain that makes eventual success that much sweeter as a competitor.  
 

You can’t forget a wound like that, but you can stop the feeling of suffering and turn it into improvement and dedication.  That’s what highly competitive people do - they use it to drive them and motivate them.  If they just got over it, then it wouldn’t be a thing.  The Bills wanted to show the Rams that they would’ve kicked their asses had it been them in the Super Bowl and thrash the Titans that had their number the past few years.  They didn’t forget, they used it as motivation for this season.  I fully expect them to be jacked up for KC and look sharp on both sides of the ball.  

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I think it's an issue when a fan's reaction to a loss is worse than the players'. Or when fans hold onto it longer. Players are the ones actually involved with a real stake in the game; their career. We, as fans, should be able to let go relatively quickly. A win or a loss is not a reflection of our personal lives.

Absolutely.  In my early 20’s I was one of those fans who would let a bad result ruin the next couple days and I’d experience genuine rage at particularly bad results.  And this was during the drought years when there was a lot of that.

 

I needed to have the realizations that a) none of this was in my control and b) relying on something out of my control to generate positive feelings like pride and fulfillment is a waste of my time.  

[Pete]

win 52-7. make Chefs fans leave early, have Josh resting by mid3rd quarter.

That will shut up Chef fans and reiterate that the rest of the NFL is on notice that there is a new sheriff running *****,The Mighty Bills are running *****, and even KC falls in line behind

Edited October 15, 2022 by Pete

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

win 52-7. make Chefs fans leave early, have Josh resting by mid3rd quarter.

That will shut up Chef fans and reiterate that the rest of the NFL is on notice that there is a new sheriff running *****,The Mighty Bills are running *****, and even KC falls in line behind

People would still say that we beat them last year in the regular season too.  The Bills just need to play their game every week and not care about that type of posturing.

[BuffaloBill]

Good read and it explains a lot about the current Bills.

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

People would still say that we beat them last year in the regular season too.  The Bills just need to play their game every week and not care about that type of posturing.

You don't think 52-7 Bills ass kicking at Arrowhead with the whole country watching would convince those in denial, that Buffalo is a superior team with swag?

Yes, we must handle business, win east, win AFC, win Superbowl- focused one game at a time.  But a Bills asskicking at Arrowhead goes a long way to erasing 13 seconds.  We will erase it completely in Jan

[Motorin']

Kaizen mother *****! 

[Bills2022]

After watching the Chiefs the other night, I honestly am not sure we will even play them in the playoffs.  There are a bunch of AFC teams that can knock them out of the playoffs.  I think tomorrow is the game we will all remember as the game where the Bills dominant era in the AFC began.  

 

[LeGOATski]

22 minutes ago, Pete said:

You don't think 52-7 Bills ass kicking at Arrowhead with the whole country watching would convince those in denial, that Buffalo is a superior team with swag?

Yes, we must handle business, win east, win AFC, win Superbowl- focused one game at a time.  But a Bills asskicking at Arrowhead goes a long way to erasing 13 seconds.  We will erase it completely in Jan

What will you do if the Bills lose?

[Heitz]

4 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

Psycho-babble

Can’t tell if sarcasm… 🤔

As someone who works w pro athletes, I assure you sports psychology / psychologists are not just spouting psycho-babble and also that pro athletes mentally about wins and losses are def different than you and I. 🤷‍♂️

:beer:

 

[SoCal Deek]

I didn’t watch the entire replay of last year’s playoff game last night but I did see the touchdown and ensuing comments leading up to the infamous thirteen seconds. What I honestly didn’t recall in the excitement of it all was how absolutely sure Romo and Nantz were that the game was over and that the Bills had won. They never even imagined the Chiefs could do something with those few seconds. I’m guessing the Bills thought the same thing. Really poor execution by the coaching staff. 

[Shaw66]

Thanks, Thurm.   It's a deeper look into the Bills mindset.  

 

Processing 13 Seconds is, for the players, one of those things that's easier said than done.   They can try all they want to take the growth mindset approach, but they still have (1) their own memories of a painful mindset and (2) people asking them about it all the time.  It's like having a death in the family - you can process it all you want, but every morning when you wake up the feeling of loss is still there, and people keep bringing it up - "I was so sorry to hear about your _______'s passing."    

 

It takes strength and personal discipline to move on from bad memories.   And that's why McBeane focus so much on the character issues when they evaluate players.  

 

I was interested that Taiwan Jones showed up in the article as a process leader.  It's been obvious that McDermott wants him on the team, but I always assumed it was simply that he brought the right attitude to special teams.  The article makes it sound like Jones in a team leader - he was one of the true disciples of McDermott's process. 

 

 

 

[Dan Darragh]

37 minutes ago, Heitz said:

Can’t tell if sarcasm… 🤔

As someone who works w pro athletes, I assure you sports psychology / psychologists are not just spouting psycho-babble and also that pro athletes mentally about wins and losses are def different than you and I. 🤷‍♂️

 

Psychology is tomorrow's starting pitcher.

[Shaw66]

And one other thing about moving on from 13 Seconds.  

 

I'm sure others have commented on it, but I never thought much about the parallel with Wide Right.   Great young team emerging on the scene, suddenly is hit with a heart-breaking loss, a loss that that is so momentous it becomes part of not just Bills history but NFL history.  The question is, "how does the great young team respond after experiencing such a loss?"   The answer comes only as the weeks, months, and years play out.  We know the positives and negatives of how the Kelly Bills responded.  The Allen Bills have gone 4-1 so far, and the Chiefs game will be an interesting piece of evidence, but we're months or even years away from knowing how well they will process 13 Seconds.  

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, TBBills said:

Still about 13 seconds... they got over it b.c it's a new season. End of story...

This guy needed your clicks so he put 13 seconds into the title. 13 seconds matter more to the media than the fans.

 

The article should say "Why media can't get over 13 seconds as well as fans or players do."

 

 

Nonsense.

 

Anyone who can't think of tons of examples of sports examples of teams being haunted and letting past disasters hang over their heads isn't trying hard. Possible because they're hoping it won't happen here.

 

And if it mattered more to the media than the fans, the fans wouldn't read it and the media would instantly move on to other things.

 

 

[Heitz]

19 minutes ago, Dan Darragh said:

Psychology is tomorrow's starting pitcher.

IDK about that, but a sports psychologist will likely make tomorrow’s starting pitcher better…  

[Mr. WEO]

what's the freshness date on this?

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

what's the freshness date on this?

 

And yes. I just took this screen shot. Shouldn't spoil for at least another 4 months.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

You don't think 52-7 Bills ass kicking at Arrowhead with the whole country watching would convince those in denial, that Buffalo is a superior team with swag?

Yes, we must handle business, win east, win AFC, win Superbowl- focused one game at a time.  But a Bills asskicking at Arrowhead goes a long way to erasing 13 seconds.  We will erase it completely in Jan

That would certainly dominate the NFL conversation for the subsequent week.  By the time a playoff rematch arrives people will remember 13 seconds more clearly.  It was an all time game plain and simple.

[US Egg]

The fact is that in that time span the game was lost and a SB opportunity ended because of it.

 

Players dealing with it and moving on, wonderful.
 

Coaches knowing how to better handle such a similar game situation again, is still the concern.

 

 

[DapperCam]

I think the Bills got over it by getting rid of Levi Wallace. Problem solved.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I think it's an issue when a fan's reaction to a loss is worse than the players'. Or when fans hold onto it longer. Players are the ones actually involved with a real stake in the game; their career. We, as fans, should be able to let go relatively quickly. A win or a loss is not a reflection of our personal lives.

 

I think it's both more critical and easier for the players because their training and preparation affect future outcomes.

 

We joke as fans about "what did you do to help the Bills win?" and Gameday Rituals, but at the end of the day very little we do affects the outcome - at home games our yelling helps a bit.

 

I also think that coaches, players have to see the game far more holistically than fans do.  For fans, it comes down to 13 seconds at the end.  For coaches,  maybe the fact that we were in it until the end and not trailing by 23 points going into the 4th Q is significant.  For players, I think they've been trained since grade school that they have to look at the whole game and look at what they could have done different or better the whole game.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks, Thurm.   It's a deeper look into the Bills mindset.  

 

Processing 13 Seconds is, for the players, one of those things that's easier said than done.   They can try all they want to take the growth mindset approach, but they still have (1) their own memories of a painful mindset and (2) people asking them about it all the time.  It's like having a death in the family - you can process it all you want, but every morning when you wake up the feeling of loss is still there, and people keep bringing it up - "I was so sorry to hear about your _______'s passing."    

 

It takes strength and personal discipline to move on from bad memories.   And that's why McBeane focus so much on the character issues when they evaluate players. 

 

I actually wonder if the (2) people asking them all the time is as true as you think.

 

With the possible exception of Impossible Uncle JugFace who you see only at family gatherings and avoid as much as you can, I think the family and friends the athletes see every day probably ask once, hear "new year, new games, put it behind us, moving on" and respect that.

 

With regard to the "death in the family" and "people keep bringing it up" thing....I know that for me, one of the things that was hardest about losing a beloved family member was that very few of my co-workers and friends DID bring it up.   I wouldn't have wanted it harped on, but a one-time "I'm sorry about your loss" or "I heard about your ____, I'm sorry" to acknowledge that I was grieving would have helped.  

 

Having been on the other side, I think part of that is not knowing what to say, and part of that is fear of what you allude to - not wanting to subject them to people asking all the time.   And the grief passes.  In a month, 6 months, a year, it never goes away but we learn how to put it aside and move on.

 

I think fans who meet players are usually more star struck or cooler than you think, they either babble about "you're great, you're a Dawg, I'm you're biggest fan!" or just chat about whatever is relevant to the venue.

[Fleezoid]

Good article.  Two things in the article stuck out to me. 

 

First, I love what Diggs said about wanting to spend time with his teammates even after a whole day of meetings and practice. That's true family right there.

 

Second is not the article, but the picture of Allen walking off the field looking up with is helmet perched atop his head. And it's not Allen that caught my attention. I've seen that shot before.  It's the Chiefs player to the right. Not sure who that is, but it appears he's looking back at Allen with  a bit of a haunted look on his face, like "I don't want to ever face that dude again." or, "That guy's gonna be gunning for us. He'll be back." It's almost as if he's amazed Allen lost. 

[Shaw66]

21 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I actually wonder if the (2) people asking them all the time is as true as you think.

 

With the possible exception of Impossible Uncle JugFace who you see only at family gatherings and avoid as much as you can, I think the family and friends the athletes see every day probably ask once, hear "new year, new games, put it behind us, moving on" and respect that.

 

With regard to the "death in the family" and "people keep bringing it up" thing....I know that for me, one of the things that was hardest about losing a beloved family member was that very few of my co-workers and friends DID bring it up.   I wouldn't have wanted it harped on, but a one-time "I'm sorry about your loss" or "I heard about your ____, I'm sorry" to acknowledge that I was grieving would have helped.  

 

Having been on the other side, I think part of that is not knowing what to say, and part of that is fear of what you allude to - not wanting to subject them to people asking all the time.   And the grief passes.  In a month, 6 months, a year, it never goes away but we learn how to put it aside and move on.

 

I think fans who meet players are usually more star struck or cooler than you think, they either babble about "you're great, you're a Dawg, I'm you're biggest fan!" or just chat about whatever is relevant to the venue.

Thanks.   Interesting comments, and I don't disagree.   For everyone experiencing an event in the past that is very difficult, if not downright shattering, it's a mixed bag.   Some people bring it up to them, others avoid it.   But the person experiencing the loss notices people avoiding it, and the simple fact of noticing the avoidance reminds them of the loss.  Other people, as you say, understand the situation and make an appropriate comment, which allows them both to move on.  Over time, the pain the loss subsides.

li

I think one of the interesting things the article says is that athletes seem to be both better and worse in handling this stuff.  To the extent the athlete is focused on the present, and that's how good athletes operate, their minds aren't dwelling on the past.  

2 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

Second is not the article, but the picture of Allen walking off the field looking up with is helmet perched atop his head. And it's not Allen that caught my attention. I've seen that shot before.  It's the Chiefs player to the right. Not sure who that is, but it appears he's looking back at Allen with  a bit of a haunted look on his face, like "I don't want to ever face that dude again." or, "That guy's gonna be gunning for us. He'll be back." It's almost as if he's amazed Allen lost. 

That's interesting.   Of course, photos just capture an instant, and maybe something completely different was going on in his head, but the I think the guy seems to be thinking, "Who IS that dude?"

[Straight Hucklebuck]

In part it had to be watching KC blow it at home the next week.

 

Their fans had their tickets punched and then Mahomes threw that pick. 
 

So I was happy to watch them self destruct one week later and not make their goal either.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

You don't think 52-7 Bills ass kicking at Arrowhead with the whole country watching would convince those in denial, that Buffalo is a superior team with swag?

 

It might, but IMHO Pigs will Fly first.   And I'd be happy to eat those words but....

 

 

10 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

Good article.  Two things in the article stuck out to me. 

 

First, I love what Diggs said about wanting to spend time with his teammates even after a whole day of meetings and practice. That's true family right there.

 

Second is not the article, but the picture of Allen walking off the field looking up with is helmet perched atop his head. And it's not Allen that caught my attention. I've seen that shot before.  It's the Chiefs player to the right. Not sure who that is, but it appears he's looking back at Allen with  a bit of a haunted look on his face, like "I don't want to ever face that dude again." or, "That guy's gonna be gunning for us. He'll be back." It's almost as if he's amazed Allen lost. 

 

Really interesting observation!  He does have a "That *****in' guy!" expression.

 

I'm 99% sure that's Chief's Nickel CB L'Jarius Sneed, one of the only returning DB and experienced players in the Chief's backfield.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Beck Water