Jason Peters signs with Cowboys

[billsfan89]

Honestly after a down year in 2020 Peters was decent for the Bears in 2021, the Cowboys probably got one of the better options on the market.

[Chicken Boo]

5 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Is any good anymore? Or is he likely to be injured in short order…?

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/jason-peters/2148

 

He can still ball at an above average level.  

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, Arkady Renko said:

Russ Brandon maybe? If I recall correctly they had just redone his contract when he became a full time OL, so there was a concern about precedent of constantly redoing his contract.  The Bills made him what he is to a large extent. He was a fringey TE when he came into the league. 

Yes, when the Bills were still an NFL farm team.

51 minutes ago, PonyBoy said:

Ted Washington agrees with your post. Who was that GM? 

Add Antoine Winfield and Pat Williams too. Guys that went on to dominate: had to be around that time period?? I’m too young to remember.

2 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

It wouldn't have made a difference to those teams anyway.

 

Jairus Byrd, Marshawn Lynch, Sammy Watkins, etc... all wanted out, but held hostage by their contract, or like Dareus who got paid, then lost interest in getting better; Players just wanted out of Buffalo.

 

Buffalo needed a culture change, and (sad to say) a new owner.

You’re right. Even if Peters had stayed, his career would have been largely wasted ala Kyle Williams.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Lol I’m sorry, but the Bills not fessing up and paying this guy proper Left Tackle money is probably the most idiotic move in this Franchises history. 6x All pro, 9x Pro bowler, 2010’s all decade team, Super Bowl champion. Just insane. Who was the GM responsible for this?

 

Nah...not even close.  

 

He would have had zero impact on the fortunes of the Bills had he stayed--How could he?. 

 

Fitz, Manuel, TT, Orton----wouldn't have made any difference at all. He made himself a nice career, but what real impact did he have in Philly?   The year he was a "Super Bowl champion"--he was done before Halloween.  They would only lose 2 more games all the way through the SB with a backup LT.

 

 

[PonyBoy]

46 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Yes, when the Bills were still an NFL farm team.

Add Antoine Winfield and Pat Williams too. Guys that went on to dominate: had to be around that time period?? I’m too young to remember.

You’re right. Even if Peters had stayed, his career would have been largely wasted ala Kyle Williams.

 

Actually @Chronic, you are correct! It was Pat Williams I was thinking of, Ted Washington like. Winfield is another great call out. All he did was make tackles all over the place. 

Agree with a lot of other posters though, why didn't they play like that for us? Some did, most needed to get away from Buffalo org. to shine. Sabres players too.

Good times & legitimate hope with these players, regime, etc.. Let's Go Buffalo! 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The talk certainly wasn't among NFL GMs, who let him go undrafted and then when the Bills cut him, nobody put in a waiver claim & the Bills were able to sign him to the practice squad.  

 

Like I said........the Arkansas staff trashed him..........and Buffalo did their part to perpetuate the disinformation by not playing him in the preseason.

 

They intended to stash him on the PS.   They succeeded,  but he wouldn't stay there for long, would he?

 

All he's done is become a sure-fire HOF LT and one of the more respected teammates and football-centric players in the NFL.

 

So turns out a lot of people were wrong about him...........including you, who was among those who trashed him on here when he was traded.

 

You guys were on the wrong side of Bills history.........both about Peters and perhaps more damning your believing whatever bullsh*t was spewed by that shyster Russ Brandon..........and you just can't own it.

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

8 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I can’t believe he still even wants to play. 

He doesn’t.  He wants to get paid.  Which is part of why he will just be ok. 

[Arkady Renko]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Like I said........the Arkansas staff trashed him..........and Buffalo did their part to perpetuate the disinformation by not playing him in the preseason.

 

They intended to stash him on the PS.   They succeeded,  but he wouldn't stay there for long, would he?

 

All he's done is become a sure-fire HOF LT and one of the more respected teammates and football-centric players in the NFL.

 

So turns out a lot of people were wrong about him...........including you, who was among those who trashed him on here when he was traded.

 

You guys were on the wrong side of Bills history.........both about Peters and perhaps more damning your believing whatever bullsh*t was spewed by that shyster Russ Brandon..........and you just can't own it.

 

Do you have some special

connection to Peters?

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

He doesn’t.  He wants to get paid.  Which is part of why he will just be ok. 

 

 

I know you are just being contrarian because you were anti-Peters and pro-Russ Brandon.........and you turned out to be dead wrong.........but Peters has made over $117M in his career.........he didn't come back and play 850+ snaps for a bad Bears team last season at age 39 because he needed that extra $1.75M.

 

The Bills don't have a guy in their history who kept playing for the love of the game like Peters has.    In Philly he's remembered in the same way that Bills fans remember a guy like Kyle Williams.    A gamer who was a team leader and mentor to his fellow offensive lineman.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

Do you have some special

connection to Peters?

 

Well for nearly 30 years.......since the drafting of Thurman Thomas and until the selection of Josh Allen.........Jason Peters was easily the best player the Bills had brought in from the college ranks and developed.

 

It's not even close.......he's clearly the only one who will be a sure-fire HOF'er from that period...........and the Bills let him walk after paying him just $11M over 5 years and not wanting to give him a market deal for his position when he was among the very best in the game.

 

Bills fans should remember these facts because if you don't know and acknowledge the mistakes of the past........you fall for whatever excuse an organization will make for not being committed to winning in the future.

 

Anyone who thinks it's a given that the Bills are going to just automatically be a SB contender for the next 15 years forgets how quickly the winning culture that lead the team to 10 playoff appearances in 12 years, 5 championship games and 4 SB appearances disappeared when the owner got a little wishy-washy about winning and chose to instead favor the stacking of profits.

 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Like I said........the Arkansas staff trashed him..........and Buffalo did their part to perpetuate the disinformation by not playing him in the preseason.

 

They intended to stash him on the PS.   They succeeded,  but he wouldn't stay there for long, would he?

 

All he's done is become a sure-fire HOF LT and one of the more respected teammates and football-centric players in the NFL.

 

So turns out a lot of people were wrong about him...........including you, who was among those who trashed him on here when he was traded.

 

You guys were on the wrong side of Bills history.........both about Peters and perhaps more damning your believing whatever bullsh*t was spewed by that shyster Russ Brandon..........and you just can't own it.

 

I don't remember trashing him when he was traded: prove it with an archived post, or you've got the wrong guy.  

Edit:  I looked at my posts from April 2009 and I found ZERO posts trashing Peters when he was traded.  Next time get your facts straight before you make a statement that is blatantly false.  If you have any doubts how wrong you are, go to page 193 of my activity which is around the time he was traded.  The only post I have in a Peters trade thread has nothing to do with Peters or any trade.  

Edited September 3, 2022 by Albany,n.y.

[Behindenemylines]

11 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Jason Peters was blocking for Drew Bledsoe and JP Losman once upon a time ago. That's absolutely crazy that he's still playing!

Putting it like that it seems crazy.  

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Well for nearly 30 years.......since the drafting of Thurman Thomas and until the selection of Josh Allen.........Jason Peters was easily the best player the Bills had brought in from the college ranks and developed.

 

It's not even close.......he's clearly the only one who will be a sure-fire HOF'er from that period...........and the Bills let him walk after paying him just $11M over 5 years and not wanting to give him a market deal for his position when he was among the very best in the game.

 

Bills fans should remember these facts because if you don't know and acknowledge the mistakes of the past........you fall for whatever excuse an organization will make for not being committed to winning in the future.

 

Anyone who thinks it's a given that the Bills are going to just automatically be a SB contender for the next 15 years forgets how quickly the winning culture that lead the team to 10 playoff appearances in 12 years, 5 championship games and 4 SB appearances disappeared when the owner got a little wishy-washy about winning and chose to instead favor the stacking of profits.

 

 

 

Keeping Peters at a premium/market price would have done nothing for "winning" in Buffalo.  How could it?  He's one O-lineman.  It's like sticking Mercedes hood ornament on a Yugo.

 

In Philly, the Eagles had their best season in decades with him in the whirlpool before October was up.  He was easily replaced and they didn't miss a beat--even with a journeyman backup down the stretch and through the SB.

[buffaloboyinATL]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I know you are just being contrarian because you were anti-Peters and pro-Russ Brandon.........and you turned out to be dead wrong.........but Peters has made over $117M in his career.........he didn't come back and play 850+ snaps for a bad Bears team last season at age 39 because he needed that extra $1.75M.

 

The Bills don't have a guy in their history who kept playing for the love of the game like Peters has.    In Philly he's remembered in the same way that Bills fans remember a guy like Kyle Williams.    A gamer who was a team leader and mentor to his fellow offensive lineman.

 

 

Lol. Most of this is either fabricated, or wrong, including my supposed stance on Peters and Russ Brandon.  
 

The Bills don’t have a guy in their history who played for the love of the game?  Uh…ok.

If he is Philly’s version of Kyle Williams, why the hell is he going to help out their hated rival, in a season where both will be competing to win the division? It is my opinion that Kyle Williams would not have joined the Patriots, just for another shot at a paycheck.  

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Lol. Most of this is either fabricated, or wrong, including my supposed stance on Peters and Russ Brandon.  
 

The Bills don’t have a guy in their history who played for the love of the game?  Uh…ok.

If he is Philly’s version of Kyle Williams, why the hell is he going to help out their hated rival, in a season where both will be competing to win the division? It is my opinion that Kyle Williams would not have joined the Patriots, just for another shot at a paycheck.  

 

 

That's the thing........with each passing year more and more of the board dunces who supported Russ Brandon as GM now pretend that they did not and that it didn't color their opinion of Peters.   Peters took the correct stance with a Bills organization that was pinching pennies.   While many of the league's larger market owners were servicing debt while actively growing the league Ralph was doing nothing while piling up relatively massive $20M-$30M annual profits by skimming off the payroll with their cash-to-the-cap shyster-ism.    That's why a lot of owners hated him and fans like yourself weren't intelligent enough to see what was happening.

 

And no, the Bills don't have a player in their history who played 18 years,  made tons of money and cemented their HOF legacy long earlier but agreed to near league minimum deals to keep playing until they were 40.     Peters is a rare breed.

 

Bruce Smith played forever but he was chasing a statistical milestone, not doing it for the love of the game.    Kyle Williams was a Jason Peters type leader but Kyle called it quits after 2018 when he could have kept playing.    Being with a losing franchise your whole career will do that to players though.   

[machine gun kelly]

21 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Remember Bledsoe Lurching around the backfield?...

YOU RANG!

 

He wa good in one Star Trek episode as well.  Ridge probably knows.

 

All I can remember was “The Old Ones”

[T&C]

He is not signed.

 

The Cowboys are in "ongoing talks" with free agent LT Jason Peters.

Peters, 40, visited with the team this week and passed a physical. There looks to be momentum towards a deal for Peters, who started 15 games for Chicago last year. Signing Peters would allow the Cowboys to move first-round rookie Tyler Smith inside to open the season.

 

RELATED: Dallas Cowboys
SOURCE: Jordan Schultz on Twitter
Sep 3, 2022, 9:15 AM ET

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Keeping Peters at a premium/market price would have done nothing for "winning" in Buffalo.  How could it?  He's one O-lineman.  It's like sticking Mercedes hood ornament on a Yugo.

 

In Philly, the Eagles had their best season in decades with him in the whirlpool before October was up.  He was easily replaced and they didn't miss a beat--even with a journeyman backup down the stretch and through the SB.

 

So you are saying that Peters couldn't have helped the Bills win over the next 14 years?    That argument makes no sense.   He is literally still playing and the Bills have had 5 winning seasons in that span and hovered around .500 in others.    Despite being lead by the bumbling Buddy/Chan combo the league parity system positioned them roster-wise to be a perennial wildcard contender beginning when Marrone arrived........the roster didn't just start getting competitive in 2020.

 

And yes the Eagles won the SB with what was, at the time, probably the most talented and best conditioned roster in the NFL.    The Bills could have easily won the SB without Tre White last season........they were 8-6 with him and 5-1 without...........but that doesn't mean that Tre White isn't a great CB or a difference maker.

[ColoradoBills]

Ralph was cheap but he wasn't greedy.  If he was, he would have sold the Bills to another city well before his death.

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So you are saying that Peters couldn't have helped the Bills win over the next 14 years?    That argument makes no sense.   He is literally still playing and the Bills have had 5 winning seasons in that span and hovered around .500 in others.    Despite being lead by the bumbling Buddy/Chan combo the league parity system positioned them roster-wise to be a perennial wildcard contender beginning when Marrone arrived........the roster didn't just start getting competitive in 2020.

 

And yes the Eagles won the SB with what was, at the time, probably the most talented and best conditioned roster in the NFL.    The Bills could have easily won the SB without Tre White last season........they were 8-6 with him and 5-1 without...........but that doesn't mean that Tre White isn't a great CB or a difference maker.

 

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  LT isn't a game changing position.  It's a final piece to put a loaded Offense over the top. Otherwise, it's not gonna help if your skill positions are mediocre or worse. 

 

CB, on the other hand, is an impact position--a potential game changing position with a single play.  A significant reason the Bills didn't make it to the AFCC game last year is because Levi Wallace was too dumb to notice what Kelce was shouting about his coverage (twice) at the end of the game.  I bet Tre wouldn't have let that happen.  

 

Most talented roster in the NFL??  Come on.  They had 1 receiver over 800 yards, no  RB over 800.  Wentz/Foles/Blount/Ertz/Agholor/Jeffries.   Stop....

 

In 2020, Eagles gave up over 60 sacks. The Bears gave up 58 sacks last year (most). The best thing you can say about Peters is that the sacks probably won't be coming from his side--which is good on him I guess.  His absence in 2017 had no impact at all on the Eagles. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  LT isn't a game changing position.  It's a final piece to put a loaded Offense over the top. Otherwise, it's not gonna help if your skill positions are mediocre or worse. 

 

CB, on the other hand, is an impact position--a potential game changing position with a single play.  A significant reason the Bills didn't make it to the AFCC game last year is because Levi Wallace was too dumb to notice what Kelce was shouting about his coverage (twice) at the end of the game.  I bet Tre wouldn't have let that happen.  

 

Most talented roster in the NFL??  Come on.  They had 1 receiver over 800 yards, no  RB over 800.  Wentz/Foles/Blount/Ertz/Agholor/Jeffries.   Stop....

 

In 2020, Eagles gave up over 60 sacks. The Bears gave up 58 sacks last year (most). The best thing you can say about Peters is that the sacks probably won't be coming from his side--which is good on him I guess.  His absence in 2017 had no impact at all on the Eagles. 

 

 

As usual........when you are wrong you are really wrong.

 

Peters was traded before the rules were drastically altered to protect QB's against more violent hits in the pocket in the 2010 season........they were the only thing between your QB and a crippling blindside hit.

 

So at the time good left tackles were the second highest paid players in the sport behind the QB.

 

They remain one of the 5 elite positions even today.........teams without a good one will trade a fortune to get one.........good ones rarely if ever make it to UFA........and they routinely get picked in the top 5 of drafts.

 

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As usual........when you are wrong you are really wrong.

 

Peters was traded before the rules were drastically altered to protect QB's against more violent hits in the pocket in the 2010 season........they were the only thing between your QB and a crippling blindside hit.

 

So at the time good left tackles were the second highest paid players in the sport behind the QB.

 

They remain one of the 5 elite positions even today.........teams without a good one will trade a fortune to get one.........good ones rarely if ever make it to UFA........and they routinely get picked in the top 5 of drafts.

 

 

I've said it for years here--it's folly.  How many QBS suffered a season or career ending "crippling hit" from the blindside protected by a non-elite LT?  Is a crippling hit from the blind side more crippling than form the other side?  Lots of GMs making dumb decisions doesn't make the decision less dumb.  Philly (forgetting for a minute your laughable claim they had the most talented roster in the league) is a perfect example of this.  Peters disappeared and the team never noticed. Won their only SB without him.  

 

The Bills absolutely would have been no better (W/L) paying for Peters.  It makes no sense to believe so.  

 

Halapoulivaati Vaitai, who had never played on the blind side, was just as useful as future HOFer Jason Peters. Maybe he will get into the HOF as well....?

 

[Bill from NYC]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Keeping Peters at a premium/market price would have done nothing for "winning" in Buffalo.  How could it?  He's one O-lineman.  It's like sticking Mercedes hood ornament on a Yugo.

 

I can't understand the above. I read it several times and came away with the implication that keeping him would have been wrong beacuse the team was bad.  Sorry, imo this does not justify trading away a GREAT Left Tackle who makes the entire offense better. 

 

Remember WEO, this was a team on which Mr. Wilson could actually dictate who was drafted with ticket selling to be the priority, and Levy who was obsessed with defensive backs even before the pass favoring rule changes. The OL was habitually neglected for decades, dating back to Will Wolford.

 

So, instead of keeping a HOF LT, we traded him for a draft pick which got us a fairly good Eric Wood. I can't come up with a way to rationalize this Bro. 

[John from Riverside]

I was big on bringing in Jason peters to back up I feel like the reserves on our office of line or not that great

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:48 PM, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Remember Bledsoe Lurching around the backfield?...

lurching indicates some movement- he was a statue!!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

lurching indicates some movement- he was a statue!!

So Bledsoe wasn't Lurch...he was Stosh! 😁

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I can't understand the above. I read it several times and came away with the implication that keeping him would have been wrong beacuse the team was bad.  Sorry, imo this does not justify trading away a GREAT Left Tackle who makes the entire offense better. 

 

Remember WEO, this was a team on which Mr. Wilson could actually dictate who was drafted with ticket selling to be the priority, and Levy who was obsessed with defensive backs even before the pass favoring rule changes. The OL was habitually neglected for decades, dating back to Will Wolford.

 

So, instead of keeping a HOF LT, we traded him for a draft pick which got us a fairly good Eric Wood. I can't come up with a way to rationalize this Bro. 

 

 

With the QB lineup taht followed his departure--how would one o-lineman make such a measurable difference on a bad team? The Bills absolutely made the right move to trade.  When the best player on your team is not your QB, but an O-lineman another team may covet, you unload him for picks.  I would argue Wood had more of an impact on that Offense in his tenure than Peters would have. 

 

The Eagles had top 10 scoring Offenses with and without him.  They were bottom half with and without him.  Then, when he was gone for over half the season, he was easily replaced and the team reached a level they could not before or after he went out.  During Petersons tenure there, there Offensive performance was all over the place--none of it related to the LT--this should be obvious.

 

Makes the entire Offense better?  Not in Philly (Reid made them better, Kelly did for 2 seasons, Pederson did for 1).  Not in Chicago--they led the league in sacks allowed.  Not in Buffalo--except for his rookie season (where he played in only 5 games--and yet the Offense was ranked 7th in points), the Bills Offense was uniformly awful with Peters at LT.  No different after he left.

 

I guess we can always repeat the old bromides like "an elite LT makes the whole Offense better"--certainly Munoz, Walter Jones and Orlando Pace played on some great Offenses.  But in Peters's case the claim doesn't ring true.  The more perfect example is Joe Thomas--the "anchor" of innumerable horrible Offenses his entire career. They had 10 wins his rookie year and over the next 10 years, they would win more than 5 games 1 time (7, in 2014).   "One of the best LT of all time"----zero impact.  In fact, one could argue he had a negative impact as they picked him over Adrian Peterson (who immediately made the Vikings offense better).  He would have done the same in Cleveland.  

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

With the QB lineup taht followed his departure--how would one o-lineman make such a measurable difference on a bad team? The Bills absolutely made the right move to trade.  When the best player on your team is not your QB, but an O-lineman another team may covet, you unload him for picks.  I would argue Wood had more of an impact on that Offense in his tenure than Peters would have. 

 

The Eagles had top 10 scoring Offenses with and without him.  They were bottom half with and without him.  Then, when he was gone for over half the season, he was easily replaced and the team reached a level they could not before or after he went out.  During Petersons tenure there, there Offensive performance was all over the place--none of it related to the LT--this should be obvious.

 

Makes the entire Offense better?  Not in Philly (Reid made them better, Kelly did for 2 seasons, Pederson did for 1).  Not in Chicago--they led the league in sacks allowed.  Not in Buffalo--except for his rookie season (where he played in only 5 games--and yet the Offense was ranked 7th in points), the Bills Offense was uniformly awful with Peters at LT.  No different after he left.

 

I guess we can always repeat the old bromides like "an elite LT makes the whole Offense better"--certainly Munoz, Walter Jones and Orlando Pace played on some great Offenses.  But in Peters's case the claim doesn't ring true.  The more perfect example is Joe Thomas--the "anchor" of innumerable horrible Offenses his entire career. They had 10 wins his rookie year and over the next 10 years, they would win more than 5 games 1 time (7, in 2014).   "One of the best LT of all time"----zero impact.  In fact, one could argue he had a negative impact as they picked him over Adrian Peterson (who immediately made the Vikings offense better).  He would have done the same in Cleveland.  

 

but but  Peters was nominated to all those pro bowls and is a future HOF er apparently.   are you saying that the Eagles paid all that money and got no tangible return on their investment lol.   

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

but but  Peters was nominated to all those pro bowls and is a future HOF er apparently.   are you saying that the Eagles paid all that money and got no tangible return on their investment lol.   

 

 

Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas and Bruce Smith were all made the highest paid players at their positions in the league by the Buffalo Bills in their primes.........they won zero Super Bowls but all reached the HOF...........is that zero tangible return on investment?

 

What keeping and building around star players does is allow you to maintain a winning culture...........they had winning records in 7 of his 11 seasons in Philly and the Eagles did that despite changing coaches several times in Peters tenure there..........three different coaches took them to the playoffs and they actually won a Super Bowl.   

 

Yes Peters was out of that SB game............but his presence as a dominant force on the OL allowed them to cultivate a raw but talented backup rather than having to fill the roster with a low ceiling, high floor vet.    When it was his time, he stepped up.   And Peters was there the whole way helping coach them up.   Unlike many injured players Peters never left the team and his contribution in preparing his OL teammates for those playoffs/SB was well documented in Philly.   They also won that SB without their QB who was having a league MVP type season.   That was a team in a window.........deep and talented.........but also hardened by two years of intense physical training like the league had never seen before under Chip Kelly. 

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

On 9/3/2022 at 1:14 PM, T&C said:

He is not signed.

 

The Cowboys are in "ongoing talks" with free agent LT Jason Peters.

Peters, 40, visited with the team this week and passed a physical. There looks to be momentum towards a deal for Peters, who started 15 games for Chicago last year. Signing Peters would allow the Cowboys to move first-round rookie Tyler Smith inside to open the season.

 

RELATED: Dallas Cowboys
SOURCE: Jordan Schultz on Twitter
Sep 3, 2022, 9:15 AM ET

Why is is taking so long to get him signed? I heard here that he loves football so much that he would play for free.  

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

but but  Peters was nominated to all those pro bowls and is a future HOF er apparently.   are you saying that the Eagles paid all that money and got no tangible return on their investment lol.   

 

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas and Bruce Smith were all made the highest paid players at their positions in the league by the Buffalo Bills in their primes.........they won zero Super Bowls but all reached the HOF...........is that zero tangible return on investment?

 

What keeping and building around star players does is allow you to maintain a winning culture...........they had winning records in 7 of his 11 seasons in Philly and the Eagles did that despite changing coaches several times in Peters tenure there..........three different coaches took them to the playoffs and they actually won a Super Bowl.   

 

Yes Peters was out of that SB game............but his presence as a dominant force on the OL allowed them to cultivate a raw but talented backup rather than having to fill the roster with a low ceiling, high floor vet.    When it was his time, he stepped up.   And Peters was there the whole way helping coach them up.   Unlike many injured players Peters never left the team and his contribution in preparing his OL teammates for those playoffs/SB was well documented in Philly.   They also won that SB without their QB who was having a league MVP type season.   That was a team in a window.........deep and talented.........but also hardened by two years of intense physical training like the league had never seen before under Chip Kelly. 

 

 

"tangible" in a literal sense, as in "look what Jim/Thurman/Bruce just did to alter the outcome of this game!"

 

The Eagles had a "winning culture" before Peters showed up.  They had made the playoffs 7 of the previous 9 seasons and had won the division  5 times.

 

Peters wasn't just "out of that SB game"---he was out of every game after week 7.  But now your saying his absence wasn't an absence at all---but in fact a "dominant force" as some sort of shadow coach that made it possible for him to be quickly and effectively be replaced by a second year backup who hadn't played the position before.  lol ...I'll give you that I guess, lol.

 

That SB they won with their former Pro Bowl QB--who was actually an MVP (in that SB), not a "MVP type".  

 

And what happened to that hardened, deep and talented team the next year, upon the return of their future HOF LT?  Return to mediocrity on Offense.  

 

And Chipp Kelly was fired 2 years before the 2017 season SB.  His training methods departed with him. 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

"tangible" in a literal sense, as in "look what Jim/Thurman/Bruce just did to alter the outcome of this game!"

 

The Eagles had a "winning culture" before Peters showed up.  They had made the playoffs 7 of the previous 9 seasons and had won the division  5 times.

 

Peters wasn't just "out of that SB game"---he was out of every game after week 7.  But now your saying his absence wasn't an absence at all---but in fact a "dominant force" as some sort of shadow coach that made it possible for him to be quickly and effectively be replaced by a second year backup who hadn't played the position before.  lol ...I'll give you that I guess, lol.

 

That SB they won with their former Pro Bowl QB--who was actually an MVP (in that SB), not a "MVP type".  

 

And what happened to that hardened, deep and talented team the next year, upon the return of their future HOF LT?  Return to mediocrity on Offense.  

 

And Chipp Kelly was fired 2 years before the 2017 season SB.  His training methods departed with him. 

 

 

Notice what happened to Jim/Thurman when Will Wolford left in free agency?    The offense immediately became a shadow of it's prior form.   Two seasons later the OL kept them out of the playoffs altogether.

 

Notice what happened to Bruce in Super Bowls when he had to face outstanding LT's like Jumbo Elliott, Mark Lachey and Marc Tuinei?  Rendered ineffective.

 

Just because you can't put a statistic on a position doesn't mean that a LT isn't making a massive impact on winning and losing.

 

And my point stands about the hard work and habits that carried over from Chip Kelly...........we've seen it time and again where disciplinarians depart.......are replaced by player's coaches and the player's coach reaps the benefits.    Like Wade Phillips taking over for Parcells in Dallas......initially there is an uptick in team performance because the players are happy but also still have the residual habits, conditioning, toughness and discipline left over from the disciplinarian.     Pederson's Wade Phillips-like inattention to detail eventually produced diminishing returns.   

[Bill from NYC]

23 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I guess we can always repeat the old bromides like "an elite LT makes the whole Offense better"--certainly Munoz, Walter Jones and Orlando Pace played on some great Offenses.  But in Peters's case the claim doesn't ring true.  The more perfect example is Joe Thomas--the "anchor" of innumerable horrible Offenses his entire career. They had 10 wins his rookie year and over the next 10 years, they would win more than 5 games 1 time (7, in 2014).   "One of the best LT of all time"----zero impact.  In fact, one could argue he had a negative impact as they picked him over Adrian Peterson (who immediately made the Vikings offense better).  He would have done the same in Cleveland.  

Cleveland is another example of a team with ongoing stupidity. And if the Browns had selected Peterson he would have had a much worse career, especially sans Thomas. Besides WEO, a running back over a great Left tackle? Only a franchise that was managed by idiots or those only thinking in terms of profit would do something this stupid. 

I think that as long time Bills fans, many of us have built up a resistance towards stupid contractual moves and ridiculous draft picks, and defend such idiocy as a reflexive action.  For instance, in 2007 when the Bills were desperate for OL help, the morons in charge drafted Leodis McKelvin with Ryan Clady and Branden Albert sitting there and some folks thought it was OK. Historically, Bills draft choices were dumb to the point of being indefensible and so was the trade of Peters, for whom we obtained a pretty good and sometimes frail center.

Good, solid line play is essential at every level of football. Before the rule changes, hits that would now be considered VERY late were totally legal, so yes, LT was THE 2nd most important position.

One thing that I'm sure we can agree on is how great it is that we lucked into Josh Allen. Now, let's hope that he gets enpogh tools and protection.

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Notice what happened to Jim/Thurman when Will Wolford left in free agency?    The offense immediately became a shadow of it's prior form.   Two seasons later the OL kept them out of the playoffs altogether.

 

Notice what happened to Bruce in Super Bowls when he had to face outstanding LT's like Jumbo Elliott, Mark Lachey and Marc Tuinei?  Rendered ineffective.

 

Just because you can't put a statistic on a position doesn't mean that a LT isn't making a massive impact on winning and losing.

 

And my point stands about the hard work and habits that carried over from Chip Kelly...........we've seen it time and again where disciplinarians depart.......are replaced by player's coaches and the player's coach reaps the benefits.    Like Wade Phillips taking over for Parcells in Dallas......initially there is an uptick in team performance because the players are happy but also still have the residual habits, conditioning, toughness and discipline left over from the disciplinarian.     Pederson's Wade Phillips-like inattention to detail eventually produced diminishing returns.   

 

Kelly's conditioning program was despised in Philly.  There's no chance it's affect was felt 2 years later with a different coaching staff/methods.  

 

Bills didn't lose SBs because Bruce was neutralized by a LT.

 

17 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Cleveland is another example of a team with ongoing stupidity. And if the Browns had selected Peterson he would have had a much worse career, especially sans Thomas. Besides WEO, a running back over a great Left tackle? Only a franchise that was managed by idiots or those only thinking in terms of profit would do something this stupid. 

I think that as long time Bills fans, many of us have built up a resistance towards stupid contractual moves and ridiculous draft picks, and defend such idiocy as a reflexive action.  For instance, in 2007 when the Bills were desperate for OL help, the morons in charge drafted Leodis McKelvin with Ryan Clady and Branden Albert sitting there and some folks thought it was OK. Historically, Bills draft choices were dumb to the point of being indefensible and so was the trade of Peters, for whom we obtained a pretty good and sometimes frail center.

Good, solid line play is essential at every level of football. Before the rule changes, hits that would now be considered VERY late were totally legal, so yes, LT was THE 2nd most important position.

One thing that I'm sure we can agree on is how great it is that we lucked into Josh Allen. Now, let's hope that he gets enpogh tools and protection.

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Of course good line play is essential for team success.  Great line play by one guy is not.

 

The Browns Offense would have been better with AP than Thomas---simply because they could not have been any worse than they were with Thomas.  They needed playmakers.  LT isn't a playmaker.   When your Defense sucks, you need to score points.  AP was a generational talent.  The NFL has seen such RBs succeed behind bad O-lines.  Cleveland's O-line was bad even with a "future HOFer" on it, by the way.  

 

All this talk about "rule changes"...no rules have prevented later/dirty/cheap shot hits.  They still happen all the time--only we complain when we disagree with the call.

 

In the past 20 years, despite several rule changes, the number of roughing the passer penalties hasn't changed much. There were 107 called in 2003, a whopping   128 in 2004, same in 2005---yielding a rate of around 0.5 per game.   By 2009, it had dropped down to a mid 1990's level of 0.26.  It didn't get above .45 again until 2018 (all of this encompassed Thomas's entire career, obviously).

 

This isn't about all the bad decisions of the Bills in the past.  This is about one that wasn't bad. When the cupboard is bare, you take the best of what you have and offer it for sale to restock. 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Kelly's conditioning program was despised in Philly.  There's no chance it's affect was felt 2 years later with a different coaching staff/methods.  

 

Bills didn't lose SBs because Bruce was neutralized by a LT.

 

 

Of course good line play is essential for team success.  Great line play by one guy is not.

 

The Browns Offense would have been better with AP than Thomas---simply because they could not have been any worse than they were with Thomas.  They needed playmakers.  LT isn't a playmaker.   When your Defense sucks, you need to score points.  AP was a generational talent.  The NFL has seen such RBs succeed behind bad O-lines.  Cleveland's O-line was bad even with a "future HOFer" on it, by the way.  

 

All this talk about "rule changes"...no rules have prevented later/dirty/cheap shot hits.  They still happen all the time--only we complain when we disagree with the call.

 

In the past 20 years, despite several rule changes, the number of roughing the passer penalties hasn't changed much. There were 107 called in 2003, a whopping   128 in 2004, same in 2005---yielding a rate of around 0.5 per game.   By 2009, it had dropped down to a mid 1990's level of 0.26.  It didn't get above .45 again until 2018 (all of this encompassed Thomas's entire career, obviously).

 

This isn't about all the bad decisions of the Bills in the past.  This is about one that wasn't bad. When the cupboard is bare, you take the best of what you have and offer it for sale to restock. 

 

 

 

 

Good strength and conditioning habits carry over.    And the intense work done over a period like the Eagles under Kelly has long term residual effects.   Weights lifted today and good conditioning done today pays off YEARS later.........there has been a good deal of study on this fact, as you should know since you fancy yourself an medical expert.   So still being in better shape 18 months after his firing than ever prior to Kelly's arrival is to be expected.

 

You do realize that roughing the passer penalties don't correlate to the violence of the contact to QB's over that period, right?   Because the drastic rules "re-interpretations" in 2010 basically made it illegal to do anything but form tackle a QB or smack the ball out of his hands.    No hits at the knees or lower.   No hits to the shoulder/head area.   No contact with helmet.  

 

As I said at the time...........any thought that trading a young LT for a single LATE first round pick and a day 3 pick was "restocking the cupboard" was ridiculous.    And my prediction that both players drafted would be out of the league LONG before Peters was..........well, how did that work out?   Wood's been out of the league 5 years now.........that's how long Peters was in the league when the Bills traded him.   So it wasn't even f*cking close.   Peters lasted 10 years longer than E Wood.  That's the way it works with GREAT players instead of good ones.    They not only play better but they can play longer because of their superior talent.    Implying that the Bills didn't end up with egg on their face for that stupid trade is one of your dumber takes ever.   At least you aren't insisting he isn't a HOF'er anymore.........that was even dumber.

 

 

[Rico]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:33 AM, Bill from NYC said:

I can't understand the above. I read it several times and came away with the implication that keeping him would have been wrong beacuse the team was bad.  Sorry, imo this does not justify trading away a GREAT Left Tackle who makes the entire offense better. 

 

Remember WEO, this was a team on which Mr. Wilson could actually dictate who was drafted with ticket selling to be the priority, and Levy who was obsessed with defensive backs even before the pass favoring rule changes. The OL was habitually neglected for decades, dating back to Will Wolford.

 

So, instead of keeping a HOF LT, we traded him for a draft pick which got us a fairly good Eric Wood. I can't come up with a way to rationalize this Bro. 

Mediocre Eric Wood for many years before he became fairly good. 
 

A complete blunder of a trade.

[Doc]

The decision to trade him wasn't the mistake: it was the decision not to give him $10M/year as soon as he demanded it, just 2 years after they gave him a new contract (that they didn't have to at the time).  Once that happened, he made his decision to leave and they had no choice but to trade him. 

 

Would he have made an appreciable difference in the W-L column?  Probably not.  But I'd rather have paid a HOF'er like him than some of the stiffs they did pay.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Good strength and conditioning habits carry over.    And the intense work done over a period like the Eagles under Kelly has long term residual effects.   Weights lifted today and good conditioning done today pays off YEARS later.........there has been a good deal of study on this fact, as you should know since you fancy yourself an medical expert.   So still being in better shape 18 months after his firing than ever prior to Kelly's arrival is to be expected.

 

You do realize that roughing the passer penalties don't correlate to the violence of the contact to QB's over that period, right?   Because the drastic rules "re-interpretations" in 2010 basically made it illegal to do anything but form tackle a QB or smack the ball out of his hands.    No hits at the knees or lower.   No hits to the shoulder/head area.   No contact with helmet.  

 

As I said at the time...........any thought that trading a young LT for a single LATE first round pick and a day 3 pick was "restocking the cupboard" was ridiculous.    And my prediction that both players drafted would be out of the league LONG before Peters was..........well, how did that work out?   Wood's been out of the league 5 years now.........that's how long Peters was in the league when the Bills traded him.   So it wasn't even f*cking close.   Peters lasted 10 years longer than E Wood.  That's the way it works with GREAT players instead of good ones.    They not only play better but they can play longer because of their superior talent.    Implying that the Bills didn't end up with egg on their face for that stupid trade is one of your dumber takes ever.   At least you aren't insisting he isn't a HOF'er anymore.........that was even dumber.

 

 

 

I'm not an expert in bulls---t medicine.  Despite Kelly's "conditioning program" they stunk the last 2 of his 3 seasons.  But somehow, 2 years after he was gone, this magical conditioning was the reason for the Eagles to win a SB without the aid of their Future Hall Of Fame LT?  lol come on....you are redefining "muscle memory"...

 

If penalties made it "illegal" to do anything but form tackle the QB, you would have seen a huge increase in called penalties immediately after the rule changes.  Not so.  As far as the changes--they predate "2010" by over a decade:  1995 was when the "throwing down/full weight" on the QB rule started. 2002 was when the no helmet to helmet on the QB started. 2006 was when the "low hit on the QB" came into play.  The "reinterpretation in 2010" did not result in a jump in penalties called--there were 100, compared with 121 in 2005.  So you're way off with you claim.

 

The "great" players are so because they last a lot longer than the "good" ones?  They are going to have to kick a lot of guys out the HOF then....

 

Yes, Peters lasted a long time---racking up Pro Bowl nods/padding his resume on mediocre Offenses for 6 of the past 7 years.  The one exception is where they became a top 3 in scoring and won a SB with him off the active roster.  You are making a very powerful case lol.

[without a drought]

Traded over 13 years ago and now a member of the Cowboys practiced squad. I can see how this is a hot Bills topic days before the Bills season opens.

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm not an expert in bulls---t medicine.  Despite Kelly's "conditioning program" they stunk the last 2 of his 3 seasons.  But somehow, 2 years after he was gone, this magical conditioning was the reason for the Eagles to win a SB without the aid of their Future Hall Of Fame LT?  lol come on....you are redefining "muscle memory"...

 

If penalties made it "illegal" to do anything but form tackle the QB, you would have seen a huge increase in called penalties immediately after the rule changes.  Not so.  As far as the changes--they predate "2010" by over a decade:  1995 was when the "throwing down/full weight" on the QB rule started. 2002 was when the no helmet to helmet on the QB started. 2006 was when the "low hit on the QB" came into play.  The "reinterpretation in 2010" did not result in a jump in penalties called--there were 100, compared with 121 in 2005.  So you're way off with you claim.

 

The "great" players are so because they last a lot longer than the "good" ones?  They are going to have to kick a lot of guys out the HOF then....

 

Yes, Peters lasted a long time---racking up Pro Bowl nods/padding his resume on mediocre Offenses for 6 of the past 7 years.  The one exception is where they became a top 3 in scoring and won a SB with him off the active roster.  You are making a very powerful case lol.

Years ago, owners would slip defenders money to pay fines for late hits. Now, if they are called the players MUST pay it themselves because the penalties to the owners would be severe. The DEs are loathe to pay these fines and are more careful and the numbers probably reflect this.

 

It shoud also be noted that most DEs are faster now and more agile. As you know, they too are taken in the top 5. I think that if Edge Rusher Will Anderson stays healthy he will be the first player selected next year.  Teams (especially the Bills) need a good to great LT to protect their most important player. 

 

The Jets btw are another pathetic, idiotic franchise. They took a corner from a group of 5 school at #4 (with Evan Neal sitting there mind you), and just lost their left tackle. I am at a complete loss to understand how professional football people could be so inept. 

 

I rank the Jason Taylor trade as an epic disaster and a strikingly dumb move, even for the Bills of old. However this is just my (however strong) opinion, and thanks for the dialogue.