Training Camp Practice 7/27

[JoPoy88]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They are only keeping Austin if they feel he is their best option in the return game. If Crowder doesn't make the team that is because they just feel Isaiah and Shakir give them what they need in the slot. 

or if they feel Crowder can’t be relied upon if he’s hurt throughout camp.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

or if they feel Crowder can’t be relied upon if he’s hurt throughout camp.

 

So even if that were the case I am not sure that automatically means Austin. It would mean there is an additional spot there to fight for, and maybe Austin gets it, but he would be battling Stevenson and Hodgins. His most direct route to the roster is as a returner. 

[JoPoy88]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So even if that were the case I am not sure that automatically means Austin. It would mean there is an additional spot there to fight for, and maybe Austin gets it, but he would be battling Stevenson and Hodgins. His most direct route to the roster is as a returner. 

Agreed but i think stevenson is gone almost no matter what. He’s starting to show something in camp but I don’t think it’ll be enough

[John from Riverside]

37 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

or if they feel Crowder can’t be relied upon if he’s hurt throughout camp.

It’s super early

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I actually don’t think crowder is competing with Austin. I can’t see the Bills signing Austin as a legit option as a WR. Maybe as purely a ST player. But as a WR, the guy hasn’t ever had a season as good as Crowder’s average season. 
 

I also don’t think it is fair to knock Crowder as being injury prone. Yeah, the guy has missed a few games each season here and there, but that’s not injury prone.  Odds are he plays 12-15 games. I would take that.

 

 

I disagree.  Austin and crowder are both competing for 1 of 6-7 WR roster spots on the team.  They’ll be competing against each other 💯.  Crowder is not a lock imo.  His skill level should earn him a spot….  IF he can get on the field and earn it

 

I disagree.  He is injury prone 💯 

 

 

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s a scrub. I’d be a bit surprised if they kept him and released Crowder based on training camp/preseason performance considering he’s basically been non existent the past four years and was never really that good to begin with, but they’ve been fooled by practice champions before. See Nathan Peterman. 

Yeah, because you actually watched him play as opposed to just looking at his stats.
 

 

[CSBill]

3 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Agreed but i think stevenson is gone almost no matter what. He’s starting to show something in camp but I don’t think it’ll be enough

They generally stick with the guys they drafted. I think if Stevenson show any promise, especially in the return game, he’ll make it. At the least, a PS position. 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, CSBill said:

They generally stick with the guys they drafted. I think if Stevenson show any promise, especially in the return game, he’ll make it. At the least, a PS position. 

He's my breakout candidate on O. I think Austin was brought in as his emergency replacement if he doesn't show improvement from an injury plagued rookie season. 

 

He has a very similar skill set to Austin and Buf immediately made him active when he was healthy , over Hodgins for example,  so I like think they have high expectations 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

He's my breakout candidate on O. I think Austin was brought in as his emergency replacement if he doesn't show improvement from an injury plagued rookie season. 

 

He has a very similar skill set to Austin and Buf immediately made him active when he was healthy , over Hodgins for example,  so I like think they have high expectations 

 

They activated him to return punts and kicks. He was active for 5 games and then they went back to McKenzie. 

[stevewin]

10 hours ago, Since1981 said:

Camp wages: “get "per diem" payments based on $2,900 per week, and first-year players $1,700 per week”

 

…while not a clean analysis of the full season wage!!. It’s interesting that they are technically only making $88k to $150k in camp. That’s not much for the risk and effort. 

You left out Turkey Burgers

[JoPoy88]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

It’s super early

absolutely and I hope he does come back soon.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

I disagree.  Austin and crowder are both competing for 1 of 6-7 WR roster spots on the team.  They’ll be competing against each other 💯.  Crowder is not a lock imo.  His skill level should earn him a spot….  IF he can get on the field and earn it

 

I disagree.  He is injury prone 💯 

 

 

Yeah, because you actually watched him play as opposed to just looking at his stats.
 

 

i have to say that it is always fun to be debating over our 6th or 7th wide receivers. This time of year is great! 

[SCBills]

4 hours ago, CSBill said:

They generally stick with the guys they drafted. I think if Stevenson show any promise, especially in the return game, he’ll make it. At the least, a PS position. 

 

He's also an outside WR, which certainly helps his chances.  

 

I don't even know that his best shot at making the team is as a returner...  I think the coaches are looking at him to show as an actual WR in camp.  

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by SCBills

[Ethan in Cleveland]

13 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I actually don’t think crowder is competing with Austin. I can’t see the Bills signing Austin as a legit option as a WR. Maybe as purely a ST player. But as a WR, the guy hasn’t ever had a season as good as Crowder’s average season. 
 

I also don’t think it is fair to knock Crowder as being injury prone. Yeah, the guy has missed a few games each season here and there, but that’s not injury prone.  Odds are he plays 12-15 games. I would take that.

 

 

I agree.

Austin is pushing Stevenson off the roster and to PS.

Crowder will push Kumerow off the roster.  However Austin has the potential to at least give you something on offense where Stevenson does not. That's how I see it playing out. 

4 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

He's my breakout candidate on O. I think Austin was brought in as his emergency replacement if he doesn't show improvement from an injury plagued rookie season. 

 

He has a very similar skill set to Austin and Buf immediately made him active when he was healthy , over Hodgins for example,  so I like think they have high expectations 

Hodgins is a figment of your imagination.  A shadow of a player that never was...

Yes they brought Stevenson up and he was not good.

Not saying he can't get better. Like I said in other threads, they know 50 of the 53 guys already. 7th WR is one of the unknown 3

[SCBills]

Hodgins is quickly becoming the new Christian Wade.  

 

A guy who's not going to play for us and I have no idea why he constantly comes up in conversation.  

 

Diggs

Davis

Shakir

McKenzie

 

Crowder

Austin

Stevenson

Kumerow

 

Of the bottom group, they are fighting for 2 or 3 spots.  

 

Hodgins is a PS guy, at best. 

 

 

[Ralonzo]

If the top 53 is over the cap then I’m wondering where one could trim from, this year or next. Especially considering who needs paid next year (Knox, Davis, Edmunds?)

 

Matakevich is kind of a ST luxury like Roberts used to be. if only Andre Smith wasn’t suspended. Can Spector move in on that role? Or Kumerow?
 

Howard is probably not an option to release this year, it’s minimal savings I think. Wydermyer at least sounds like he has a chance if he spends a PS year, Sweeney’s ceiling seems to be “fun at parties.”

The most obvious savings seems to be if Edmunds looks for a payday, that seems far less impactful than Davis or Knox if Bernard shows out. I’d prioritize the offensive continuity.

 

I guess that’s where Crowder presents. If he’s not clearly ahead of Shakir/McKittrick/Austin or hurt, then it’s hard to find another salary that is underperforming to that degree. Can’t really see anything obvious from another position group, although DB looks a little overweighted particularly for a McD defense where stopgaps do ok typically.

 

[TheWeatherMan]

19 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Hodgins is quickly becoming the new Christian Wade.  

 

A guy who's not going to play for us and I have no idea why he constantly comes up in conversation.  

 

Diggs

Davis

Shakir

McKenzie

 

Crowder

Austin

Stevenson

Kumerow

 

Of the bottom group, they are fighting for 2 or 3 spots.  

 

Hodgins is a PS guy, at best. 

 

 

Crowder is a lock.  The other 3 are fighting for the final position.  

[ColoradoBills]

15 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

If the top 53 is over the cap then I’m wondering where one could trim from, this year or next. Especially considering who needs paid next year (Knox, Davis, Edmunds?)

 

There is absolutely zero chance that the top 53 salaried players are making the team.

A few names below the 53 are as follows:

Tommy Doyle, Reggie Giliam, Khalil Shakir, Christian Benford.

 

Every team in the NFL has player under the 53 making the team every year.

I wouldn't worry about this at all.

[YattaOkasan]

14 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

point well taken. But I still come back to the main sticking point of some arguing that the team would keep Austin over Crowder. Austin is the ultimate flier.  I just don’t see him giving them any meaningful production. 

I dont really take the point about Saffold.  Games with < 95% snap are SEA close win, NYJ loss, Jax rout, Kan rout, NWE loss (89% snaps), Jax rout, Mia rout.  Thats 4 routs, 1 toss up in week 2 and 2 losses (one being close).  He played complete games against all divisional opponents besides Jags and in 4/6 1 score games he saw the field for (both 1 score games he left the field for were in the first quarter of the season).  Lastly, the titans as an org will not get the benefit of the doubt from me when it comes to managing injuries as they ran henry to dust last year.

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

If the top 53 is over the cap then I’m wondering where one could trim from, this year or next. Especially considering who needs paid next year (Knox, Davis, Edmunds?)

 

Matakevich is kind of a ST luxury like Roberts used to be. if only Andre Smith wasn’t suspended. Can Spector move in on that role? Or Kumerow?
 

Howard is probably not an option to release this year, it’s minimal savings I think. Wydermyer at least sounds like he has a chance if he spends a PS year, Sweeney’s ceiling seems to be “fun at parties.”

The most obvious savings seems to be if Edmunds looks for a payday, that seems far less impactful than Davis or Knox if Bernard shows out. I’d prioritize the offensive continuity.

 

I guess that’s where Crowder presents. If he’s not clearly ahead of Shakir/McKittrick/Austin or hurt, then it’s hard to find another salary that is underperforming to that degree. Can’t really see anything obvious from another position group, although DB looks a little overweighted particularly for a McD defense where stopgaps do ok typically.

 

no savings to be had from cutting Edmunds.  his contract is guranteed this year and since it ends this year we dont save any money next year by cutting him.  so would need to trade him.

[billykay]

On 7/27/2022 at 11:57 AM, Logic said:

I don't wanna say "I told you so", but...

Oh hell, yes I do.

I told you so! Zack Moss is gonna play significant snaps for this offense this year and be productive.

 

Only if he stops running into the backs of his blockers. Maybe he needs glasses.

[Ralonzo]

3 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

 

no savings to be had from cutting Edmunds.  his contract is guranteed this year and since it ends this year we dont save any money next year by cutting him.  so would need to trade him.

Yeah, that’s not a near term thing. Just organically worked it’s way in thinking about who on the roster might not make it next year when you-know-who’s extension kicks in. Trade for relief, I doubt that. Bernard won’t be ready for that role this year, and this year is the window. There will be hard choices but that’s why Beane gets wizard bucks; all we can do is guess and say “ganbatte” 😁

[TBBills]

2 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Crowder is a lock.  The other 3 are fighting for the final position.  

Crowder is farthest thing from a lock right now, the guy cannot even get onto the practice field... and that has been his problem his whole career.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

If the top 53 is over the cap then I’m wondering where one could trim from, this year or next. Especially considering who needs paid next year (Knox, Davis, Edmunds?)

 

Matakevich is kind of a ST luxury like Roberts used to be. if only Andre Smith wasn’t suspended. Can Spector move in on that role? Or Kumerow?
 

Howard is probably not an option to release this year, it’s minimal savings I think. Wydermyer at least sounds like he has a chance if he spends a PS year, Sweeney’s ceiling seems to be “fun at parties.”

The most obvious savings seems to be if Edmunds looks for a payday, that seems far less impactful than Davis or Knox if Bernard shows out. I’d prioritize the offensive continuity.

 

I guess that’s where Crowder presents. If he’s not clearly ahead of Shakir/McKittrick/Austin or hurt, then it’s hard to find another salary that is underperforming to that degree. Can’t really see anything obvious from another position group, although DB looks a little overweighted particularly for a McD defense where stopgaps do ok typically.

 

 

Looking at the top-53, I can see 8 easy cuts that will save $7M.

[TheWeatherMan]

15 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Crowder is farthest thing from a lock right now, the guy cannot even get onto the practice field... and that has been his problem his whole career.

Over the course of his 7 year career he has played in 97 of 114 possible games (85%).  4 of the 7 years he missed zero games and the last 2 years he missed 4 games each. I don’t agree with your assessment….at all.

 

Plus as mentioned below there is only a $100K cost savings releasing him as he comes with a $1.6M cap hit.  All of the other WR’s have no cap hit and save the team $700K-800K.  

Edited July 28, 2022 by TheWeatherMan

[GunnerBill]

There are no savings to be had from cutting Crowder. Now if they can get a team to trade for him (Houston?) for a future, conditional 7th or something it clears $1m. By far the easiest way to clear space is an Edmunds extension lowering his cap hit. But as we know that is probably storing up future issues when you need to pay Oliver, Knox, Davis.

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Looking at the top-53, I can see 8 easy cuts that will save $7M.

 

Who are they?

 

Edit: okay I have Ford, Haack, Marquel Lee, Duke Johnson, Sweeney, Simmons, Hart.... that gets you to $6.5m. That should do it. Add that to the $5.6m space. Basically $12m and then you need to replace those 7 players, plus two more which you do with players on cheap rookie deals earning $750-850k a year. Which leaves you with roughly $3m left for in season signing and PS which is tight but might be manageable.

Edited July 28, 2022 by GunnerBill

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Hodgins is quickly becoming the new Christian Wade.  

 

A guy who's not going to play for us and I have no idea why he constantly comes up in conversation.  

 

Diggs

Davis

Shakir

McKenzie

 

Crowder

Austin

Stevenson

Kumerow

 

Of the bottom group, they are fighting for 2 or 3 spots.  

 

Hodgins is a PS guy, at best. 

 

 

I haven’t seen anyone say they think Hodgins will make the team….more or less just a potential PS call up if injuries hit. He’s been on the team for 2 years now, no reason to exclude him completely 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Over the course of his 7 year career he has played in 97 of 114 possible games (85%).  4 of the 7 years he missed zero games and the last 2 years he missed 4 games each. I don’t agree with your assessment….at all.  

3 of the last 4 years-

7 games missed 

0 games missed

4 games missed

5 games missed 

 

on the injury report and not 💯 for several other games.  
 

But pretend he hasn’t missed at least 1/4 of the season in 3 of the last 4 seasons.  Easy math

[TheWeatherMan]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

3 of the last 4 years-

7 games missed 

0 games missed

4 games missed

5 games missed 

 

on the injury report and not 💯 for several other games.  
 

But pretend he hasn’t missed at least 1/4 of the season in 3 of the last 4 seasons.  Easy math

4 games 2020 / 4 games 2021.  Fudge the numbers anyway you want he has still played 85% of all games across his career.  
 

I’m sure he wasn’t too motivated to come back at the end of the last two seasons when your team completely sucks like the Jets.  
 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by TheWeatherMan

[muppy]

25 minutes ago, billykay said:

Only if he stops running into the backs of his blockers. Maybe he needs glasses.

excuse me for interceding here. I want to refute your comment by saying a RB needs holes be made to run through. If the OL cannot sustain and forge a block/hole what is a RB to do. I have not given up on him not by a longshot. He doesn't need glasses how about better run blocking...just sayin'

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

4 games 2020 / 4 games 2021.  Fudge the numbers anyway you want he has still played 85% of all games across his career.  

He played in 12 games in 2021.  Last I checked, every team played 17 games last year. 

 

Again. He’s missed at least 1/4 of the season 3 out of the last 4 seasons.  If you don’t think that makes him more of an injury risk than many others, you’re certainly entitled to feel that way.   
 

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/jamison-crowder/7269

[billykay]

1 minute ago, muppy said:

excuse me for interceding here. I want to refute your comment by saying a RB needs holes be made to run through. If the OL cannot sustain and forge a block/hole what is a RB to do. I have not given up on him not by a longshot. He doesn't need glasses how about better run blocking...just sayin'

The blocking seems fine for our other guy.

[TheWeatherMan]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He played in 12 games in 2021.  Last I checked, every team played 17 games last year. 

 

Again. He’s missed at least 1/4 of the season 3 out of the last 4 seasons.  If you don’t think that makes him more of an injury risk than many others, you’re certainly entitled to feel that way.   
 

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/jamison-crowder/7269

I’m replying to TB who clearly stated he couldn’t stay healthy for his entire career.  Not the last 2 years.  Last year Crowder missed the last 3 games with a calf injury on a 4-13 NYJ team jockeying for draft position.

Edited July 28, 2022 by TheWeatherMan

[HappyDays]

I've become addicted to Josh Allen throwing the football. These clips are sustaining me until September.

[YattaOkasan]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He played in 12 games in 2021.  Last I checked, every team played 17 games last year. 

 

Again. He’s missed at least 1/4 of the season 3 out of the last 4 seasons.  If you don’t think that makes him more of an injury risk than many others, you’re certainly entitled to feel that way.   
 

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/jamison-crowder/7269

So you dont think hes a roster lock?  I think his cap numbers indicate he is if hes not traded. 

 

I keep comparing Crowder to Cole and its interesting to me that Crowder has ~4.6 k snaps in the 7 years before joining and cole only had 3.2k snaps in 7 years.  really strange how dallas didnt use cole.  also shows that crowder has been playing a ton up to this point relative to a guy hes coming in for.

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

I’m replying to TB who clearly stated he couldn’t stay healthy for his entire career.  Not the last 2 years.  Last year Crowder missed the last 3 games with a calf injury on a 4-13 NYJ team jockeying for draft position.

Oh, yeah, you’re right. He should’ve said he hasn’t been able to stay healthy for 3 of the last 4 years.  Then, he would’ve been correct.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, YattaOkasan said:

I dont really take the point about Saffold.  Games with < 95% snap are SEA close win, NYJ loss, Jax rout, Kan rout, NWE loss (89% snaps), Jax rout, Mia rout.  Thats 4 routs, 1 toss up in week 2 and 2 losses (one being close).  He played complete games against all divisional opponents besides Jags and in 4/6 1 score games he saw the field for (both 1 score games he left the field for were in the first quarter of the season).  Lastly, the titans as an org will not get the benefit of the doubt from me when it comes to managing injuries as they ran henry to dust last year.

no savings to be had from cutting Edmunds.  his contract is guranteed this year and since it ends this year we dont save any money next year by cutting him.  so would need to trade him.

Not true. If they did cut him(of course they will not) then the cap hit to the Bills would be the offset money difference between his guaranteed salary and whatever new deal he signed with his new club. Again its not happening but that is how the money/cap works for a guy on 5th year guarantee. There is no more prorated signing bonus money that would hit the cap as dead money because it had already been accounted for over the length of his current contract.

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

So you dont think hes a roster lock?  I think his cap numbers indicate he is if hes not traded. 

 

I keep comparing Crowder to Cole and its interesting to me that Crowder has ~4.6 k snaps in the 7 years before joining and cole only had 3.2k snaps in 7 years.  really strange how dallas didnt use cole.  also shows that crowder has been playing a ton up to this point relative to a guy hes coming in for.

I like crowder.  I think he’ll make the team…. If he’s healthy enough to earn his spot.  The guy has missed the last 3 practices due to “soreness”.  
 

I think he’s our best slot receiver when available although I think Mckenzie might be creeping up on him.  

I think he’s better than and should beat out Austin….but Austin is practicing and seems to be doing a decent job from what I’ve read.  

 

Being available is important.  All I can really judge him on right now is his past with other teams.  I don’t think the roster spots on this team will be won and lost based on years past.  It’s my belief that the players will earn their spot during camp. 

but I’ve been known to be wrong before, so this doesn’t mean much.  

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

32 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Not true. If they did cut him(of course they will not) then the cap hit to the Bills would be the offset money difference between his guaranteed salary and whatever new deal he signed with his new club. Again its not happening but that is how the money/cap works for a guy on 5th year guarantee. There is no more prorated signing bonus money that would hit the cap as dead money because it had already been accounted for over the length of his current contract.

I dont know that there is offset language in Edmunds contract let alone the 5th year option.  Please share if you see this but the link below says it wouldnt be.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/01/fifth-year-options-have-no-offset-obligation/

29 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I like crowder.  I think he’ll make the team…. If he’s healthy enough to earn his spot.  The guy has missed the last 3 practices due to “soreness”.  
 

I think he’s our best slot receiver when available although I think Mckenzie might be creeping up on him.  

I think he’s better than and should beat out Austin….but Austin is practicing and seems to be doing a decent job from what I’ve read.  

 

Being available is important.  All I can really judge him on right now is his past with other teams.  I don’t think the roster spots on this team will be won and lost based on years past.  It’s my belief that the players will earn their spot during camp. 

but I’ve been known to be wrong before, so this doesn’t mean much.  

 

 

I agree McKenzie is creeping and seems like hes gonna have more of a share than I (and most peeps) thought.  Considering they only save 100k from cutting crowder, i would expect them to stash him on IR rather than cutting him.  That way he can still be available later in the year for only 100k more.  Heck to do this move I would use Austin if he beats Crowder out cause of availability at the start of the season.  I would cut Austin for 0 dead cap, tell him to go wait in the parking lot, then re-sign him for 50-100k more for his help. 

 

I think some roster spots are won before TC and you see it in the contracts.  Now playing time is a different story where we agree McK looks to be coming up.  

[Mat68]

20 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I’d cut Kumerow over Crowder all day everyday.

Kumerow for blocking and teams dresses.  Crowder behind Mckenzie, Shakir and Austin adds 0 teams ability besides returner.  I think Austin wins it going away.  Will also offer some motion type plays in the offense to spell Mckenzie.  
 

Having the constain motion and jet action with Mckezie plus traditional slot work makes the Bills tougher to defend. 

[Mat68]

4 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Kumerow for blocking and teams dresses.  Crowder behind Mckenzie, Shakir and Austin adds 0 teams ability besides returner.  I think Austin wins it going away.  Will also offer some motion type plays in the offense to spell Mckenzie.  
 

Having the constain motion and jet action with Mckezie plus traditional slot work makes the Bills tougher to defend. 

Im not saying Crowder is dead but he is behind Mckenzie.  Everyday goes by Shakir is gaining ground.  

[Roundybout]

On 7/27/2022 at 2:33 PM, Bruffalo said:

I don't use twitter but that's gotta be a joke account right? 

 

 

60/40 it's a troll account. Hard to tell at times.