Heath Farwell being “honest” with JAX media…

[StHustle]

Heath didn’t get the word to Bass…that simple. He choked under pressure and lapsed his communication. Frazier then choked on play calls and the players choked by not changing it as players will do in situations of an obvious miscall (Kelce even called his own play on the field cause he knew it’s be better based on situation) and McD also choked by not stepping in and overruling Frazier.

 

But too culprit is Heath imo. If he gets that call into Bass then the first domino never falls.

 

All in all…I think that game made the Bills BETTER and set off a series of events that will set us up for an even better run. I’m honestly glad that game happened the way it did. Exposed some things at a good time. Imagine this exposure not coming when we finally made it back to the super bowl.

6 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Where did I hear that McD changed his mind about the kickoff (from through the EZ to short of it) and that the amended call never made it to Bass? Farwell was supposedly on the short kick to the EZ train from the moment after the offense scored.

In your mind

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, StHustle said:

In your mind

No.

[machine gun kelly]

I’m not sure what you expect him to say. It’s coach speak so he doesn’t have to answer just like McD, Beane, Frazier, and now Smiley all have a non answer of the 13 seconds.  At this point, it’s in the past.  Who cares?  As that douche, Belichick says we’re onto Cincinnati.

 

I mean did anyone think one of the above people or Farwell would say “uh yeah, I told them to kick it through the end zone vs. squib kicking it”.  It’s never going to happen.  What is evident is Farwell is gone and so is Wallace.  Wallace took a cheap deal from Pittsburgh when we could’ve paid the same.  Those actions tells you which people were to blame.  Sure, McBeane has some ownership as they run the team, but Frazier as much as Farwell has responsibility as they didn’t defend well in overtime.

 

Onto 2022.

Edited June 10, 2022 by machine gun kelly

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, StHustle said:

Heath didn’t get the word to Bass…that simple. He choked under pressure and lapsed his communication. Frazier then choked on play calls and the players choked by not changing it as players will do in situations of an obvious miscall (Kelce even called his own play on the field cause he knew it’s be better based on situation) and McD also choked by not stepping in and overruling Frazier.

 

 

Based on what Levi said actually the players didn't make the adjustment on the field, they know what they are supposed do in the defense that is called when they see the offense that KC were in and Levi just forgot himself. Now I still think the call was too passive to begin with, but the players should have adjusted. 

[Spiderweb]

Yes there was a problem with kickoff, yet I still cannot believe or excuse the defense. It was pitiful. Frazier should have roasted as well.

[billsfan1959]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Why do we need to know? So long as there has been accountability in the building and the mistakes have been learned from what does hanging people out to dry in public achieve? McDermott said right after the game - contrary to what most people seem to think - that it starts with him. That is all we need to know. 

 

This. McDermott is accountable to his players, his coaches, and his organization. He stated it starts with him a number of times. Anyone who has paid any attention to  his behavior during the time he has been here knows he doesn't expect anything from anyone in that organization that he doesn't, first, expect from himself. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that what transpired at the end of that game has been discussed in excruciating detail and everyone who had a role in what happened has held himself accountable.

 

That is the type of culture they have built.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

He was being as honest as possible without breaking his word to his previous employer. 

 

Everything isn't for public knowledge. 

I agree with that, I have not said he should divulge any thing to the public, I said he was not being fully honest in his answers, those two things are separate items to my mind. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

What else is Farwell supposed to say there?

 

He's just following McDermott's lead in giving non answers to the 13 second debacle. Unless I missed it all McDermott has ever said about it is "We need to execute better". 

 

I still think it's funny we're talking about the kickoff. The decision to kick out the Endzone vs a kick short of the Endzone changes our win probability by maybe 1%. Having a miscommunication is bad, but the decision itself was irrelevant. 

 

The real issue was going into a prevent defense and giving the Chiefs back to back free ~20 yard plays. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… seemed like a dig at the coaching staff/McD who seemingly threw him under the bus for those 13 seconds of failure.

That is a real reach reading into a typical coachspeak response to the question.

[ProcessTruster]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

He doesn't want to have to say he F'd up.

correct.  that has to be the answer. 

 

He sh-t the bed and got sh-t canned the polite way.

 

Someone go ask Bass what he was told to do.  

 

Damn shame.  Team knocks itself out and the ST coach throws it all away.  

 

Good riddance 

[MJS]

Sounds like a perfectly good answer to the question. That's exactly the mentality he should have moving on to a new team.

[RobbRiddick]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

What don't you believe? He is right, it is in the past and a question for the Bills. You can take the fact that they parted terms as an indication that there was some failure somewhere, but what he actually says there is not untrue. 

 

Honestly, I agree with you

[Doc]

2 hours ago, StHustle said:

Heath didn’t get the word to Bass…that simple. He choked under pressure and lapsed his communication. Frazier then choked on play calls and the players choked by not changing it as players will do in situations of an obvious miscall (Kelce even called his own play on the field cause he knew it’s be better based on situation) and McD also choked by not stepping in and overruling Frazier.

 

But too culprit is Heath imo. If he gets that call into Bass then the first domino never falls.

 

All in all…I think that game made the Bills BETTER and set off a series of events that will set us up for an even better run. I’m honestly glad that game happened the way it did. Exposed some things at a good time. Imagine this exposure not coming when we finally made it back to the super bowl.

 

This.  I think the call initially was a touchback, which was told to Bass, but then it was changed and Farwell never told Bass.  And as a result, Farwell is gone.

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Based on what Levi said actually the players didn't make the adjustment on the field, they know what they are supposed do in the defense that is called when they see the offense that KC were in and Levi just forgot himself. Now I still think the call was too passive to begin with, but the players should have adjusted. 

Wallace wasn't being truthful imo. Go back and look at the two plays that comprised the 13 second drive. The first is just a bad misread of the situation; they're in prevent which gives up the easy yards to Hill. The next call looks just like 2man w/corners (importantly BOTH corners) playing trail technique. That's not on Levi Wallace when the look is 2man and both DBs are in trail w outside leverage. That's a bad playcall, not bad execution.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Wallace wasn't being truthful imo. Go back and look at the two plays that comprised the 13 second drive. The first is just a bad misread of the situation; they're in prevent which gives up the easy yards to Hill. The next call looks just like 2man w/corners (importantly BOTH corners) playing trail technique. That's not on Levi Wallace when the look is 2man and both DBs are in trail w outside leverage. That's a bad playcall, not bad execution.

 

I confess I didn't put it on Levi at the time either. But I take him at his word. I don't know what incentive he has to take blame if he doesn't think he erred. His explanation was that he should, based on alignment, have come up to press. I agree with you in terms of what the call looked like. Looked like a 2 deep shell. 

[GoBills808]

 

Here: this is timestamped

 

That's the playcall. Both corners are playing the same technique.

 

[GoBills808]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I confess I didn't put it on Levi at the time either. But I take him at his word. I don't know what incentive he has to take blame if he doesn't think he erred. His explanation was that he should, based on alignment, have come up to press. I agree with you in terms of what the call looked like. Looked like a 2 deep shell. 

I don’t know why he said that but I’ve watched this a number of times since the actual game and imo it just looks like 2man was the call. 

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Started the ball rolling in the wrong direction? 
 

I don’t really understand the point of the thread… to go after our ex special teams coach whom deserves some blame, was not even close to the reason they blew those 13 seconds. Again, that’s on Sean McDermott, the head coach who couldn’t get his defense on the same page with questionable defensive play calls.

No one is going after him per say, it’s the “ him and honesty” thing that we are having fun with, its quite evident that he was doing his best politician impression by talking around the question and not actually answering it, that’s all, 

[FilthyBeast]

7 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

It's a BS answer.  Months later and we still have no real accountability or an explanation of what really happened.  Hopefully someday, someone will come clean and let us know exactly who ***** up.

 

And this is what makes no sense.

 

McDermott had to have made the final decision or it brings even more question to his coaching ability and long term viability. But if it was Farwell or Bass that screwed up the actual execution (assuming a squib kick was supposed to happen) why be so secretive and vague about it?

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

And this is what makes no sense.

 

McDermott had to have made the final decision or it brings even more question to his coaching ability and long term viability. But if it was Farwell or Bass that screwed up the actual execution (assuming a squib kick was supposed to happen) why be so secretive and vague about it?

 

Because good leaders don't blame others. McDermott said it starts with him. That is all you need to know.

[Doc]

21 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

And this is what makes no sense.

 

McDermott had to have made the final decision or it brings even more question to his coaching ability and long term viability. But if it was Farwell or Bass that screwed up the actual execution (assuming a squib kick was supposed to happen) why be so secretive and vague about it?

 

If McD initially decided that Bass should kick a touchback and that's what was relayed to him, but then McD changed his mind and that wasn't relayed to Bass, that's on Farwell.  And the reason why he's gone.  Ultimately it falls on McD and he took all the blame, as he should.

[eball]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

What don't you believe? He is right, it is in the past and a question for the Bills. You can take the fact that they parted terms as an indication that there was some failure somewhere, but what he actually says there is not untrue. 

Major red flag when people use the “to be honest” verbal crutch repeatedly. In my experience it’s typically a sign they are anything but. 
 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, eball said:

Major red flag when people use the “to be honest” verbal crutch repeatedly. In my experience it’s typically a sign they are anything but. 

 

Which bit do you think is dishonest? In the past? A matter for the Bills? Or that he still thinks about it a lot? The first two are demonstrably true. Is it feasible that the 3rd part is a lie? Sure. But having been a semi-pro soccer coach myself I know that when a new season comes round whatever the previous season has brought - success or heartbreak you have to turn the page. It is conceivable to me that he has done the same. 

[eball]

@GunnerBill I think it’s pretty clear Farwell effed up and McD allowed him to save face. I know some think it was McD’s call to kick it through the end zone but we’d have heard something from somebody if Farwell left because he was “upset” at McD overruling him. Farwell doesn’t want to talk about this because he’s embarrassed it happened and he was responsible.

 

Honestly. 
 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, eball said:

@GunnerBill I think it’s pretty clear Farwell effed up and McD allowed him to save face. I know some think it was McD’s call to kick it through the end zone but we’d have heard something from somebody if Farwell left because he was “upset” at McD overruling him. Farwell doesn’t want to talk about this because he’s embarrassed it happened and he was responsible.

 

Honestly. 
 

 

No he doesn't want to talk about this because that would be a dick move. The Bills have made it clear how they want to deal with it. If a coach (whether responsible or not) went elsewhere and started blabbing about details the Bills have intentionally kept in house that would be a dick move. When Farwell says it is a matter for the Bills he is right.

[Buffalosouth]

"With all due respect...."

[eball]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No he doesn't want to talk about this because that would be a dick move. The Bills have made it clear how they want to deal with it. If a coach (whether responsible or not) went elsewhere and started blabbing about details the Bills have intentionally kept in house that would be a dick move. When Farwell says it is a matter for the Bills he is right.

 

We’re talking around each other.  Farwell seems like a decent dude and I hoped he learned from his mistake and will make sure that never again is the freaking kicker not told what the play is.  Him saying he “doesn’t think about it at all” is clearly a lie.

 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

We’re talking around each other.  Farwell seems like a decent dude and I hoped he learned from his mistake and will make sure that never again is the freaking kicker not told what the play is.  Him saying he “doesn’t think about it at all” is clearly a lie.

 

 

Is it? I am not sure I agree. As I say, even in semi pro sport I was very able to turn the page immediately. Being a coach is very different to being a fan. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Is it? I am not sure I agree. As I say, even in semi pro sport I was very able to turn the page immediately. Being a coach is very different to being a fan. 

 

 

I gotta' agree with Gunner here @eball.

 

You are looking at this from a fans perspective...........fans dwell..........it's what we do.

 

It's because as a fan we have no control over outcomes and can rarely live in the moment wrt sports.

 

That's the exact opposite of the feeling of being a coach or a player............which is one of the reasons it's so satisfying and often less gut-wrenching to play than it is to be a fan.

[krf139]

The national and local media refuse to press these guys on who’s responsible, what went wrong etc. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

On 6/10/2022 at 8:15 AM, ScottLaw said:

Even with that ***** up, they ***** up the three plays after in ridiculous fashion…. Even with two TOs to figure out a proper defense.

 

IMO the special teams coach is down the line of people to blame… way behind both McDermott and Frazier.

I'm surprised that people still struggle with this basic fact

[JohnNord]

On 6/10/2022 at 7:08 AM, eball said:

Excerpt from Buffalo News article about Farwell’s PC yesterday:

 

————

 

Farwell, who took over as Jaguars special teams coordinator 17 days after the Bills' playoff loss, was asked if he was haunted by the end of the game and what he might have done differently.

 

"I get that question all the time," Farwell smiled. "To be perfectly honest with you, it’s in the past. I don’t worry about that. Honestly, my answer to that is that’s a question for the Buffalo Bills and Sean McDermott. It’s in the past. I don’t deal with that, to be honest with you.

"That's part of the way I live my life. It’s going forward, and what we’re doing here. I’m loving the guys I work with here. I got a great appreciation for the players there. I had fantastic players, still good friends of mine that I talk to all the time. But down here, I’m trying to build something down here special. That’s what it's about for me. I move on. I honestly don’t think twice about it."

 

————-

 

Umm, Heath, I “honestly” don’t believe.you.  Dolt.

 

Erik Turner from Cover 1 was the first one to break the news that the touchback was the result of Farwell not getting the call into Bass.  

He said that there were already issues with Farwell’s coaching before that moment.  So I don’t think Farwell is the scapegoat some people want to make him out to be.  There clearly were issues and what happened in KC was the last straw

 

[JohnNord]

28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

How Farwell didn’t know KC had all 3 TOs and could simply let Travis Kelce roam free in the middle of the field to get them into FG range I’ll never understand…

Not saying he the loss is all on Farwell.  I just don’t think he’s the scape goat some people are making him out to be.  He was likely on the bubble as ST Coach before 

[purple haze]

The KC game been over.  The result will always be the result - no matter who you blame. No matter who you think is lying about whatever. 

 

The Bills are legit Super Bowl favorites.  They win it all - 13 seconds doesn’t matter; wide right doesn’t matter.; Music City Miracle doesn’t matter.   Why lament over a past that will never change when you can put your energy behind a future that can change everything?

[eball]

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I gotta' agree with Gunner here @eball.

 

You are looking at this from a fans perspective...........fans dwell..........it's what we do.

 

It's because as a fan we have no control over outcomes and can rarely live in the moment wrt sports.

 

That's the exact opposite of the feeling of being a coach or a player............which is one of the reasons it's so satisfying and often less gut-wrenching to play than it is to be a fan.

 

No, I totally get that.  They have to move on.  My only point is that his comments were not genuine…i.e., he was trying too hard to tell everyone he doesn’t care about that any more...so much so that (at least to me) it’s obvious it still bugs him.  Does he think about it every day?  Of course not, he has a new job to do.

 

Just my opinion.  I played sports enough to understand the “moving on” part of it.

 

[Doc]

16 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Erik Turner from Cover 1 was the first one to break the news that the touchback was the result of Farwell not getting the call into Bass.  

He said that there were already issues with Farwell’s coaching before that moment.  So I don’t think Farwell is the scapegoat some people want to make him out to be.  There clearly were issues and what happened in KC was the last straw

 

Yeah, heard the same from Tyler Dunne. 

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

No, I totally get that.  They have to move on.  My only point is that his comments were not genuine…i.e., he was trying too hard to tell everyone he doesn’t care about that any more...so much so that (at least to me) it’s obvious it still bugs him.  Does he think about it every day?  Of course not, he has a new job to do.

 

Just my opinion.  I played sports enough to understand the “moving on” part of it.

 

 

 

Where we differ is the idea of "having" to "move on"..........that implies that it takes some effort to let it go.  And I believe him that he doesn't care about that anymore.   It's not like his special teams gave up a TD.   There was a miscommunication with McD but it was a coin toss of a decision either way.......at best.   We have literally seen a KR TD beat this franchise on the last play of in a seemingly locked up playoff game.  As fans it's easy to get caught up in this line of thinking but it was hardly the special teams fault that they lost that game.