New "ironclad" Stadium deal reached

[ExWNYer]

20 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Not saying it is right but were the boos more about the Sabres than anything?

 

13 hours ago, nucci said:

Probably, they've been a league embarrassment for most of Pegula's ownership

 

Yes, but that was RJ's special night. That was neither the time nor the place to boo the Pegulas no matter how you feel about them. For those who booed, read the room. It was a classless move.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I’m seeing a lot of BAD DEALS articles 

 

Funny how Central and Western NY cries when something goes to the NYC region 

 

Now its the NYC region crying about Western NY. 

 

The state’s only team 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I’m seeing a lot of BAD DEALS articles 

 

Funny how Central and Western NY cries when something goes to the NYC region 

 

Now its the NYC region crying about Western NY. 

 

The state’s only team 

 

People downstate obviously don't care about that.  Northeastern NJ is part of the NYC metro area and they look at that as more NY than anywhere upstate.  Their football teams play a few miles away from Manhattan--about as close as OP to downtown Buffalo.  

 

Downstate they see how Metlife was funded and say tell the owner to fund it.  They look at Yankee stadium and say let the owner and the city of Buffalo/Erie Co split it.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

People downstate obviously don't care about that.  Northeastern NJ is part of the NYC metro area and they look at that as more NY than anywhere upstate.  Their football teams play a few miles away from Manhattan--about as close as OP to downtown Buffalo.  

 

Downstate they see how Metlife was funded and say tell the owner to fund it.  They look at Yankee stadium and say let the owner and the city of Buffalo/Erie Co split it.

Metlife?  The 50/50 joint venture?

If only 2 owners would share the responsibility in Buffalo  🦬.  

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Metlife?  The 50/50 joint venture?

If only 2 owners would share the responsibility in Buffalo  🦬.  

 

...they might get the private burden up to 40% or so.

 

Anyway, the Bills have 2 owners.

 

 

[DefenseWins]

 

Another view of things...

[ALF]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

...they might get the private burden up to 40% or so.

 

Anyway, the Bills have 2 owners.

 

 

 

If the Pegulas do pick up the cost overruns which are  very likely with inflation they will pay a lot more.

[Laughing Coffin]

On 4/2/2022 at 10:41 AM, Arkady Renko said:

A point about what?  Did I miss a statement?

I think the point of when Kim said there's not a lot of crossover between Sabres and Bills fans

[Mr Info]

I am a club seat holder and we have a PSL built into our invoice. I just looked at my invoice and the PSL currently represents ~60% of the invoice. Though this will undoubtably increase in a new stadium, a PSL is not new for club seat holders. It is not paid to then purchase your tix but is bundled in. 

But a PSL will be new for regular seat holders.

[klos63]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

People downstate obviously don't care about that.  Northeastern NJ is part of the NYC metro area and they look at that as more NY than anywhere upstate.  Their football teams play a few miles away from Manhattan--about as close as OP to downtown Buffalo.  

 

Downstate they see how Metlife was funded and say tell the owner to fund it.  They look at Yankee stadium and say let the owner and the city of Buffalo/Erie Co split it.

Neither the city of Buffalo nor Erie county paid anything towards new Yankees stadium. The team, NYC taxpayers and MLB funds paid for it.

[SoCal Deek]

Have I mentioned that I’m really excited and thrilled that the Bills are getting a new stadium? I think it’s great! I can’t wait to attend a game there. 

[nucci]

12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Have I mentioned that I’m really excited and thrilled that the Bills are getting a new stadium? I think it’s great! I can’t wait to attend a game there. 

as a kid I was excited for Rich Stadium. Hope I'm alive for this

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

as a kid I was excited for Rich Stadium. Hope I'm alive for this

As a kid I clipped and saved every picture from the newspaper when Rich Stadium was being built. Back in the day we were all thrilled that our Bills had made it to the big time. Hard for me to digest some of the whining on here about the new stadium. Most people don’t realize that Rich Stadium is now older than the Rockpile was when it was finally replaced….and that the Bills had just added the major renovation to the Rockpile just over a decade before it was replaced. It’s all perspective! 

[nucci]

37 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

As a kid I clipped and saved every picture from the newspaper when Rich Stadium was being built. Back in the day we were all thrilled that our Bills had made it to the big time. Hard for me to digest some of the whining on here about the new stadium. Most people don’t realize that Rich Stadium is now older than the Rockpile was when it was finally replaced….and that the Bills had just added the major renovation to the Rockpile just over a decade before it was replaced. It’s all perspective! 

I went to final game at Rockpile.....21-21 tie vs Lions

[PromoTheRobot]

11 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I’m seeing a lot of BAD DEALS articles 

 

Funny how Central and Western NY cries when something goes to the NYC region 

 

Now its the NYC region crying about Western NY. 

 

The state’s only team 

Meanwhile Syracuse University wants state help for a Carrier Dome replacement.

[Augie]

5 hours ago, ALF said:

 

If the Pegulas do pick up the cost overruns which are  very likely with inflation they will pay a lot more.

 

AND, they face the greatest risk from the unforeseen. It’s like everyone else has a fixed rate mortgage, while the Pegula’s get an ARM in a volatile market, but with virtually ZERO chance of rates going down. That risk is VERY significant. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

As a kid I clipped and saved every picture from the newspaper when Rich Stadium was being built. Back in the day we were all thrilled that our Bills had made it to the big time. Hard for me to digest some of the whining on here about the new stadium. Most people don’t realize that Rich Stadium is now older than the Rockpile was when it was finally replaced….and that the Bills had just added the major renovation to the Rockpile just over a decade before it was replaced. It’s all perspective! 

 

There's something else behind it...

[nucci]

28 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

AND, they face the greatest risk from the unforeseen. It’s like everyone else has a fixed rate mortgage, while the Pegula’s get an ARM in a volatile market, but with virtually ZERO chance of rates going down. That risk is VERY significant. 

I'm sure they'll be fine

[BisonMan]

6 hours ago, DefenseWins said:

 

Another view of things...

Wow, I guess they know their audience but the lack of knowledge shown here is a bit stunning.

 

Why does everyone who is against public funding of sports focus all of their attention on how rich the owners are? They are rich for a reason and longtime NFL owners are largely responsible for the league's popularity and the revenue generation from TV, etc. The Pegula's paid $1B+ for the team that Ralph started with money from a shoebox. The players aren't 50 times better than they were 30 years ago but the league has been run so successfully over that period that players make 30x more now. Sorry, the players aren't responsible for the league's success, the owners are.

 

Insert "Buffalo Philharmonic" instead of "Buffalo Bills" and these people would have the opposite opinion. Local Sports teams are a "public good", just like the arts, parks, etc. Some are privately owned and some are publicly owned and managed. The only fact you really have to know here is the there are enough citizens in the county and state that want an NFL team in Buffalo and are willing to have their tax dollars fund a portion of it. It has "value" to the citizens that they receive when they watch the games, read news articles, watch the draft and read inane opinions on TBD. 

 

None of that "value" the citizens/fans receive would be possible if they became the Austin Bats. Citizens of NY think spending 0.4% of one year's state budget is worth keeping the team. 

[Augie]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

I'm sure they'll be fine

 

I’m just trying to point out a fair and balanced picture of the arrangement.  Some people resent rich folks. I don’t dislike people for being rich. In fact, I’d LOVE to actually BE rich one day!  I may not like you for your actions, but that goes for rich OR poor. 

 

I’m saying they have taken FAR more financial risk than the deal appears when sketched out on paper in today’s dollars. I’m trying to be fair to them about their potential exposure. 

 

 

.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Augie

[T&C]

Back when we were high tech:

 

 

[nucci]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I’m just trying to point out a fair and balanced picture of the arrangement.  Some people resent rich folks. I don’t dislike people for being rich. In fact, I’d LOVE to actually BE rich one day!  I may not like you for your actions, but that goes for rich OR poor. 

 

I’m saying they have taken FAR more financial risk than the deal appears when sketched out on paper in today’s dollars. I’m trying to be fair to them about their potential exposure. 

 

 

.

I have nothing against them but from what I've read they are not putting up as much as others and not taking a big as big a risk as you say. $200M from the league that most is not required to be paid back. Of course there is some risk but unless something catastrophic happens, they'll be making millions in profit every year

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, klos63 said:

Neither the city of Buffalo nor Erie county paid anything towards new Yankees stadium. The team, NYC taxpayers and MLB funds paid for it.

 

Yes, that was my point.  People downstate will say let the locals and the team pay for it.

[Mr. WEO]

17 hours ago, ALF said:

 

If the Pegulas do pick up the cost overruns which are  very likely with inflation they will pay a lot more.

 

11 hours ago, Augie said:

 

AND, they face the greatest risk from the unforeseen. It’s like everyone else has a fixed rate mortgage, while the Pegula’s get an ARM in a volatile market, but with virtually ZERO chance of rates going down. That risk is VERY significant. 

 

ARM??  It's more like having a mortgage and your neighbors and business associates pay it for you....while your house doubles in value and you get it all when you sell.

 

The state and county are on the hook for the 850 million, plus 100 million over 15 years for maintenance plus 180 million over 30 years for captial improvements.

 

Conversely, the Pegulas have to put up 200 million of there own money to get the 200 million G4 money.  Of that 200 G4, they will let 150 million be paid back from the visiting team's (other owner's) gate cut.  So that means they are on the hook for 250 million out of 1.3 billion.  They will then cut that amount down by charging PSLs to generate at least 100 million.  Even if cost over runs hit 20% for another 250 million, that's 400 million they might have to pay out of pocket.  In only 8 years, they have cleared almost 400 million in profit from owning the Bills.  The shared (guaranteed minimum) revenue will soon be 300 million  a year.   

 

There is no risk for the Bills here.  

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

12 hours ago, nucci said:

I went to final game at Rockpile.....21-21 tie vs Lions

I was there as well. For some reason I remember it being very cold, and even as a kid I thought it was fitting to leave the place both cold and miserable. There were brighter days ahead!

Go Bills

[nucci]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was there as well. For some reason I remember it being very cold, and even as a kid I thought it was fitting to leave the place both cold and miserable. There were brighter days ahead!

Go Bills

it was...Cold, cloudy December game in Buffalo

[zow2]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:51 PM, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Amazing world.

 

This week…Pegulas and Officials announce new stadium and 30 year lease to keep Buffalo Bills in Western New York.

 

Tonight…during RJ Banner, the Fans at the Key Bank Center showered down an avalanche of ‘Boos’ when the Pegulas were announced.

 

Maybe Kim Pegula had a point.  🤷.

 

IMO, The people who went to RJ night and then proceeded to boo the Pegulas are scum.   Go call them or send an email if they're so disgruntled. Don't go booing them before such a nice ceremony.  Both teams could be in other cities by now. 

[nucci]

17 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

IMO, The people who went to RJ night and then proceeded to boo the Pegulas are scum.   Go call them or send an email if they're so disgruntled. Don't go booing them before such a nice ceremony.  Both teams could be in other cities by now. 

I doubt a call would get thru to them and an email wouldn't do anything. Not saying I agree but maybe booing is only way to let them know they're disgusted with the hockey team since they took over.

[Greg S]

Just now, nucci said:

I doubt a call would get thru to them and an email wouldn't do anything. Not saying I agree but maybe booing is only way to let them know they're disgusted with the hockey team since they took over.

 

Its strange how they could be doing such a good job with the Bills and a terrible one with the Sabres. They are lucky the Bills are doing well otherwise the pitchforks and knives would be out from the WNY faithful to run them out of town.

[Matt_In_NH]

Old enough to remember those days

[SoCal Deek]

42 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Its strange how they could be doing such a good job with the Bills and a terrible one with the Sabres. They are lucky the Bills are doing well otherwise the pitchforks and knives would be out from the WNY faithful to run them out of town.

I'm curious...as I know no longer live in WNY, do most local fans think of the Pegulas as meddling in the teams' operations, or more as hands-off owners?

[Greg S]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I'm curious...as I know no longer live in WNY, do most local fans think of the Pegulas as meddling in the teams' operations, or more as hands-off owners?

 

It seems like they let Beane and McDermott call the shots. As for the Sabres I have no idea. I live in NJ and am an Isles fan when it comes to hockey.

[TheFunPolice]

I hope if the Bills win the Super Bowl fans don't boo the Pegulas at the parade...

 

The level of animosity towards them is just plain stupid. They 100% saved the Bills and Sabres from moving. So the Sabres have stunk for a while. 

 

It's not like they didn't spend $$ on the Sabres. It's just that somehow NOTHING worked until (hopefully) recently, when they ironically stopped doing that. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Just Jack]

16 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Meanwhile Syracuse University wants state help for a Carrier Dome replacement.

 

I doubt that'll happen anytime soon as they just got done doing major renovations to the dome last year.  

[billsfanmiamioh]

32 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I hope if the Bills win the Super Bowl fans don't boo the Pegulas at the parade...

 

The level of animosity towards them is just plain stupid. They 100% saved the Bills and Sabres from moving. So the Sabres have stunk for a while. 

 

It's not like they didn't spend $$ on the Sabres. It's just that somehow NOTHING worked until (hopefully) recently, when they ironically stopped doing that. 

I think the biggest problem with the Sabres might be in Vegas now. There’s plenty of other blame to go around but it certainly seems like the dark cloud might be breaking up. 

[zow2]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

I hope if the Bills win the Super Bowl fans don't boo the Pegulas at the parade...

 

The level of animosity towards them is just plain stupid. They 100% saved the Bills and Sabres from moving. So the Sabres have stunk for a while. 

 

It's not like they didn't spend $$ on the Sabres. It's just that somehow NOTHING worked until (hopefully) recently, when they ironically stopped doing that. 

 

 

I'm going to give them credit for some great Bills hires and some very good luck at how things have worked out.

 

I will give them a fail for much of their Sabres tenure and some horrible bad luck with everything they've tried.

 

As you said, let's hope the Sabres have turned the corner. They have a GM with a plan, a solid looking coach, and building a culture of players that want to be in Buffalo.  Plus they have some really talented prospects in college and the minors that will make a big impact soon.

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

15 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

 

I'm going to give them credit for some great Bills hires and some very good luck at how things have worked out.

 

I will give them a fail for much of their Sabres tenure and some horrible bad luck with everything they've tried.

 

As you said, let's hope the Sabres have turned the corner. They have a GM with a plan, a solid looking coach, and building a culture of players that want to be in Buffalo.  Plus they have some really talented prospects in college and the minors that will make a big impact soon.

 

 

 

 

So I'll ask it again....what's the prevailing sentiment around WNY? (I haven't lived there in decades.)

Are the Pegulas too involved....or not involved enough? 

 

[zow2]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

So I'll ask it again....what's the prevailing sentiment around WNY? (I haven't lived there in decades.)

Are the Pegulas too involved....or not involved enough? 

 

 

Personally, i think when it comes to the product on the field and on the ice, they are hands-off owners.  They come off as supportive to the GM's and Coaches in what those guys want to accomplish.. at least in public.  But i can't speak for all of WNY.

 

On the business side, I'm sure they are hands-on, as they should be.  I would be if i owned the teams.

[SoCal Deek]

54 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

Personally, i think when it comes to the product on the field and on the ice, they are hands-off owners.  They come off as supportive to the GM's and Coaches in what those guys want to accomplish.. at least in public.  But i can't speak for all of WNY.

 

On the business side, I'm sure they are hands-on, as they should be.  I would be if i owned the teams.

Thanks …that’s been my take from afar. I haven’t heard stories of meddling in the personnel, strategy or operations of the teams. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

So I'll ask it again....what's the prevailing sentiment around WNY? (I haven't lived there in decades.)

Are the Pegulas too involved....or not involved enough? 

 

 

Yes.

 

Joke aside, I think Terry got involved in some personnel decisions early on that blew up in their faces. (Ville Leino, Christian Erhoff) I also think they took some bad advice hiring certain people.

Edited April 4, 2022 by PromoTheRobot