Kyler Murray unfollows Cardinals on social media

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Sure his QB ratings have gone up but no where near as much as Allen's did through his first 3 seasons:

 

2018 = 67.9

2019 = 85.3

2020 = 107.2

 

IMO Murray isn't throwing the ball all that much better now then he was throwing it his rookie year.

 

As for the Cowboys paying Dak 40 million per year? They're going to feel more and more like the Vikings do with Cousins over the next couple of seasons.  So what would I pay Murray if I owned Arizona? Somewhere between 25 - 30 million dollars per year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He can get more on the open market than that.  Tannehill got 29.5M... in 2020 on a lower cap.  Wilson got 35M AAV in 2019.  Watson got 39M AAV in 2020.  

 

Also cousins contract was 2yr 66M fully guaranteed in 2021 after 3yr 84M in 2018.  You'd be asking Murray to sign for less than Cousins did in 2020.  

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

No. It's not even close.

 

Your big conclusion is adding Allen's 4th year widens the gap. No ****? Another year helps when adding stats up? Who knew?

 

The entire discussion was the 1st 3 years of their career. You keep attempting to change that. Either you can't even comprehend what the discussion is or you cannot emotionally handle that there are other QBs that have played on the same level as Josh Allen STATISTICALLY through their 1st 3 years. 

 

So, in retrospect I asked if you were able to supply a statistic based counter argument or were just yammering. Yammering it is. 

I have no problem seeing Herbert, Mahomes and Burrow as matching Allen.  Murray on the other hand doesn't.  It's called an eye test - try it you might like it.

 

As for stats how about these:

 

Murray's first playoff game at the end of his 3rd season:

 

19/34 for 137 yards & 2 INT including a pick 6.  QB rating = 40.9 with 2 rushes for 6 yards.  Total of 143 yards.

 

Allen's first playoff game at the end of his 2nd season:

 

24/46 for 264 yards.  QB rating = 69.5 with 9 rushes for 92 yards & 1 reception for 16 yards & a TD.  Total of 372 yards.

 

Allen's 2nd playoff game at the end of his 3rd year:

 

26/35 for 324yards & 2 TD's.  QB rating = 121.6 with 11 rushes for 54 yards & 1 TD.  Total of 374 yards.

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

He can get more on the open market than that.  Tannehill got 29.5M... in 2020 on a lower cap.  Wilson got 35M AAV in 2019.  Watson got 39M AAV in 2020.  

 

Also cousins contract was 2yr 66M fully guaranteed in 2021 after 3yr 84M in 2018.  You'd be asking Murray to sign for less than Cousins did in 2020.  

I'm giving my opinion on what I think Murray is worth not what some fools are willing to pay him.

 

There is this sense in some quarters that paying a QB big bucks hurts a team over the long run.  I call BS on that.  The key is making sure you pay the right QB the big bucks.  There are only a few QB's under 30 whose play is at the level where they can carry a team on their shoulders.  These are the guys wroth paying 40 - 50 million dollars a year to. Today that includes Mahomes, Allen & Burrow and I suspect will soon include Herbert.

 

The real issue is how do you get QB's whose pay is at best only worth 20 - 30 million per year to take that amount? IMO this group includes Jackson, Mayfield, Prescott & Murray. This is where teams will make or break their futures. The teams like Buffalo, KC, LA and Cincy have their guy and they will be relevant for as long as those QB's stay healthy. But if any of the teams with the 20 - 30 million dollar QB's pays them at 40 million or above they will regret it big time. Just like the Vikings do.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

55 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Don't, stat boy.  Go and watch some NFL games, stop looking at stats & then you might actually get a clue.  If you do that it will take a lot longer than Tuesday for you to understand NFL football.  Get back to us in a few months after you've been educated.  

Wow. Ok. Look, I normally wouldn't do this but I'll go ahead and fast track you since you seem to really need the attention today. You're welcome.

 

Listen, Jimmy. I know numbers can be a scary thing. We have all been there. There are SO MANY numbers out there (such as 7, 4 and even 16) it seems like a rough process to learn them all! But we believe in YOU!!! There are many programs out there too learn these "numbers" from! May I reccommend Brainpop Jr? I used it when my kids were doing remote learning and it is really fantastic! Just remember to ask your parents permission before downloading. We wouldn't want you to lose screen time!!

 

As far as how these numbers play into the actual product you see on the field. For example...have you ever wondered why coaches go for it on 4th down? Have you wondered why sometimes they choose to punt? These decisions are based on something called analytics. Analytics are basically a collection of statistics (or stats, for short) that help your favorite team make the best call. Do you have a favorite team? I bet you do!

 

Statistics or...Stats are one very important part of what you see. The data supplied from these "stats" helps coaches knew what to do in certain situations. Or what players may do well in certain down and distances. The often help determine things like MVP awards, contract extensions (MORE NUMBERS AHHHHH!!!) and sometimes they even have a direct outcome on the plays called during a game. Do you have a favorite play? I bet you do, Jimmy!

 

Now that you know a little bit about these numbers or STATS...hopefull they are a bit less scary. Keep swinging slugger!

 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Wow. Ok. Look, I normally wouldn't do this but I'll go ahead and fast track you since you seem to really need the attention today. You're welcome.

 

Listen, Jimmy. I know numbers can be a scary thing. We have all been there. There are SO MANY numbers out there (such as 7, 4 and even 16) it seems like a rough process to learn them all! But we believe in YOU!!! There are many programs out there too learn these "numbers" from! May I reccommend Brainpop Jr? I used it when my kids were doing remote learning and it is really fantastic! Just remember to ask your parents permission before downloading. We wouldn't want you to lose screen time!!

 

As far as how these numbers play into the actual product you see on the field. For example...have you ever wondered why coaches go for it on 4th down? Have you wondered why sometimes they choose to punt? These decisions are based on something called analytics. Analytics are basically a collection of statistics (or stats, for short) that help your favorite team make the best call. Do you have a favorite team? I bet you do!

 

Statistics or...Stats are one very important part of what you see. The data supplied from these "stats" helps coaches knew what to do in certain situations. Or what players may do well in certain down and distances. The often help determine things like MVP awards, contract extensions (MORE NUMBERS AHHHHH!!!) and sometimes they even have a direct outcome on the plays called during a game. Do you have a favorite play? I bet you do, Jimmy!

 

Now that you know a little bit about these numbers or STATS...hopefull they are a bit less scary. Keep swinging slugger!

 

 

I spent a career analyzing data and numbers. Did you?   I understand how unreliable football statistics are without proper context.  

 

Next time you want to post something as juvenile as the post above, just look in the mirror & slap yourself 3 times.  

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I spent a career analyzing data and numbers. Did you?   I understand how unreliable football statistics are without proper context.  

 

Next time you want to post something as juvenile as the post above, just look in the mirror & slap yourself 3 times.  

Ditto for me. Its actually kind of amazing how these guys misuse statistical analyses with respect to football.  Analytics serves a purpose in football but by and large it's been blown way out of proportion.  It's like the concept of variability, how the data is measured & sample size are meaningless concepts when it comes to applying stats to football.

 

 

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I spent a career analyzing data and numbers. Did you?   I understand how unreliable football statistics are without proper context.  

 

Next time you want to post something as juvenile as the post above, just look in the mirror & slap yourself 3 times.  

So, you spent a lifetime analyzing data and numbers and also claim statistics are for losers? Looks like we can FINALLY agree!

🤙🤙🤙

 

[Albany,n.y.]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

So, you spent a lifetime analyzing data and numbers and also claim statistics are for losers? Looks like we can FINALLY agree!

🤙🤙🤙

 

I wasn't analyzing football stats, clown.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I wasn't analyzing football stats, clown.  

Listen, as fun as this is I have a fun statistic. There is a 76.3% chance that this will only make more work for a mod if it continues. You are more than welcome to yell at the clouds...oops...my DM if you wish to continue. Otherwise, I'm done giving you and your Cincy bud the attention you crave here. Cheers!

[Albany,n.y.]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Listen, as fun as this is I have a fun statistic. There is a 76.3% chance that this will only make more work for a mod if it continues. You are more than welcome to yell at the clouds...oops...my DM if you wish to continue. Otherwise, I'm done giving you and your Cincy bud the attention you crave here. Cheers!

I've wasted too much time already.  Thanks for stopping a debate where there is no right answer.  There are 2 types of fans : visual & stat fans.  Since both sides view the game from a totally different perspective, there can never be much of an agreement.  Sometimes one side is right & sometimes the other side is right.  

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

48 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I've wasted too much time already.  Thanks for stopping a debate where there is no right answer.  There are 2 types of fans : visual & stat fans.  Since both sides view the game from a totally different perspective, there can never be much of an agreement.  Sometimes one side is right & sometimes the other side is right.  

 

 

In that statement we can agree. 

 

There is also a place (as I firmly believe) that the 2 sides intersect. You need the film sometimes to explain why the stats are what they are. The stats are the outcome. The film is the "why" so to speak. 

 

Allen's rookie year for example. The stats said this kid may wash out of the league before his rookie deal was up. Numbers...terrible.  However anyone that objectively watched him saw the "it" factor so to speak. The plays he flashed in addition to the ones he didn't. 

 

The stats now reflect what we all saw as a rookie. They are measured numbers that chart just how much progress he has made. Of course...we all saw it coming because we watched the games. The simple fact that he is able to meet and exceed the productivity of the guys like Mayfield and Murray who were considered much further along are proven by both the film and the numbers. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

19 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm giving my opinion on what I think Murray is worth not what some fools are willing to pay him.

 

There is this sense in some quarters that paying a QB big bucks hurts a team over the long run.  I call BS on that.  The key is making sure you pay the right QB the big bucks.  There are only a few QB's under 30 whose play is at the level where they can carry a team on their shoulders.  These are the guys wroth paying 40 - 50 million dollars a year to. Today that includes Mahomes, Allen & Burrow and I suspect will soon include Herbert.

 

The real issue is how do you get QB's whose pay is at best only worth 20 - 30 million per year to take that amount? IMO this group includes Jackson, Mayfield, Prescott & Murray. This is where teams will make or break their futures. The teams like Buffalo, KC, LA and Cincy have their guy and they will be relevant for as long as those QB's stay healthy. But if any of the teams with the 20 - 30 million dollar QB's pays them at 40 million or above they will regret it big time. Just like the Vikings do.

 

 

 

You're probably not wrong - but the cap goes up... like every year.  So the AAV needs to reflect that increase in the deal.  Murray is still a good player - probably the best one on the cardinals. 

 

Its easy to look at the last game and be like... don't pay this guy, he absolutely blew it in the playoffs.  You could also tell he wasn't right after the injury though.  I think he can potentially be like Mahomes-Lite, so I'd probably keep him around.  If you trade him and he ends up winning a super bowl in Pittsburgh or Carolina or something you're going to look foolish.  

[CincyBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

You're probably not wrong - but the cap goes up... like every year.  So the AAV needs to reflect that increase in the deal.  Murray is still a good player - probably the best one on the cardinals. 

 

Its easy to look at the last game and be like... don't pay this guy, he absolutely blew it in the playoffs.  You could also tell he wasn't right after the injury though.  I think he can potentially be like Mahomes-Lite, so I'd probably keep him around.  If you trade him and he ends up winning a super bowl in Pittsburgh or Carolina or something you're going to look foolish.  

I agree that Murray is a good player.  But the dilemma facing these teams is that Murray & Mayfield are not IMO among the very few that can command top dollar at QB. 

 

I am just so happy that Allen has grown to the point that there is no doubt he is worth the mega contract.  As a fan I would hate to be in the position that Cleveland is this year and Arizona will be next year.

 

 

[Shaw66]

20 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm giving my opinion on what I think Murray is worth not what some fools are willing to pay him.

 

There is this sense in some quarters that paying a QB big bucks hurts a team over the long run.  I call BS on that.  The key is making sure you pay the right QB the big bucks.  There are only a few QB's under 30 whose play is at the level where they can carry a team on their shoulders.  These are the guys wroth paying 40 - 50 million dollars a year to. Today that includes Mahomes, Allen & Burrow and I suspect will soon include Herbert.

 

The real issue is how do you get QB's whose pay is at best only worth 20 - 30 million per year to take that amount? IMO this group includes Jackson, Mayfield, Prescott & Murray. This is where teams will make or break their futures. The teams like Buffalo, KC, LA and Cincy have their guy and they will be relevant for as long as those QB's stay healthy. But if any of the teams with the 20 - 30 million dollar QB's pays them at 40 million or above they will regret it big time. Just like the Vikings do.

 

 

Cincy -

 

I just dropped in here and haven't read much of this thread, but you're saying the right things.  You have to pay big bucks when you have the right QB; it's death to pay big bucks to the wrong QB.  Where I disagree is that I'm not ready to put Murray in the Jackson-Mayfield-Prescott category.  I don't know where to put him.  I watch Murray and I see the same things I saw in Allen in his first couple of seasons - ability to make plays and to make all the throws.  Great arm and accuracy.  Willingness to learn and be a field leader.  I see football intelligence when I watch Murray.   He's not just a running quarterback, not by a long shot.  

 

Has he blossomed like Allen?  No.  But I think he still may.  I see a guy who could be a lot like Mahomes, or like Brees.  Sean Payton would still be the coach in New Orleans if Murray was the QB there.  

 

I think Murray is a tough call if you need a QB and you're willing to open your check book.  Five years from now will he have been a great investment, like Brees, or a franchise-limiting luxury, like Cousins?  

[TBBills]

Can we change the title since facts came out that he never even followed the Cardinals in the first place?

Edited February 11, 2022 by TBBills

[Mango]

1. Do you guys think Murray looks more or less like a giant toddler running when he is not wearing football pads? I hope more. It makes me laugh, so I might start watching baseball just to watch the Murray waddle. 

2. Why do players do this dumb stuff. Even if he quits the NFL. Why telegraph it? It is like de-friending my GF and un-tagging her in all our pictures together before we break up. If he stays it just puts a strain on the relationship going forward. 

[Bing Bong]

On 2/8/2022 at 5:23 AM, Chandler#81 said:

Soccer is terrible, but Baseball is perfect.

Your opinion is wrong

[Warcodered]

 

[The Wiz]

I also unfollowed the cards. No one cares when I do it apparently. 

[Behindenemylines]

On 2/10/2022 at 2:41 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

Wow. Ok. Look, I normally wouldn't do this but I'll go ahead and fast track you since you seem to really need the attention today. You're welcome.

 

Listen, Jimmy. I know numbers can be a scary thing. We have all been there. There are SO MANY numbers out there (such as 7, 4 and even 16) it seems like a rough process to learn them all! But we believe in YOU!!! There are many programs out there too learn these "numbers" from! May I reccommend Brainpop Jr? I used it when my kids were doing remote learning and it is really fantastic! Just remember to ask your parents permission before downloading. We wouldn't want you to lose screen time!!

 

As far as how these numbers play into the actual product you see on the field. For example...have you ever wondered why coaches go for it on 4th down? Have you wondered why sometimes they choose to punt? These decisions are based on something called analytics. Analytics are basically a collection of statistics (or stats, for short) that help your favorite team make the best call. Do you have a favorite team? I bet you do!

 

Statistics or...Stats are one very important part of what you see. The data supplied from these "stats" helps coaches knew what to do in certain situations. Or what players may do well in certain down and distances. The often help determine things like MVP awards, contract extensions (MORE NUMBERS AHHHHH!!!) and sometimes they even have a direct outcome on the plays called during a game. Do you have a favorite play? I bet you do, Jimmy!

 

Now that you know a little bit about these numbers or STATS...hopefull they are a bit less scary. Keep swinging slugger!

 

 

Wow.   I’m as sarcastic guy by nature but dude this reply makes you actual asshat.  I’m thinking apologies are in order.  
 

you never quite know whom your speaking down to when in fact maybe they know a bit more than you think. 
 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Behindenemylines said:

Wow.   I’m as sarcastic guy by nature but dude this reply makes you actual asshat.  I’m thinking apologies are in order.  
 

you never quite know whom your speaking down to when in fact maybe they know a bit more than you think. 
 

 

Sage advice. Perhaps you should take it as well! Have a great day!

[dma0034]

11 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Sage advice. Perhaps you should take it as well! Have a great day!

 

 

Statistics are part of the reason why coaches go for it in certain situations but personality has to be a bigger factor. Obviously the best example of this is when Ron Rivera started going for it more often in Carolina because his job was on the line so he took a riskier approach. 

 

MVP is based off numbers but it also has the element of winning. Allen's numbers were similar to last year's but he wasn't even in the conversation for MVP. In fact just off the top of my head the last 4 MVPs (Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers x2) were the QB of the team with the 1 seed in the playoffs. Brady before that too.

 

Numbers are not everything. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Wonder what JJ Watt thinks about joining the cardinals now ?? Maybe if he came here we win one more game and play the chiefs at home and we are in the Superbowl.

 

 

[SirAndrew]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Wonder what JJ Watt thinks about joining the cardinals now ?? Maybe if he came here we win one more game and play the chiefs at home and we are in the Superbowl.

 

 

I could be wrong, but I think Watt enjoyed the publicity he received from joining the Cards. I wouldn’t be shocked if that was his priority. The Cards never should have been his number one option if he wanted a real title contender. 

[Albany,n.y.]

23 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

 

Statistics are part of the reason why coaches go for it in certain situations but personality has to be a bigger factor. Obviously the best example of this is when Ron Rivera started going for it more often in Carolina because his job was on the line so he took a riskier approach. 

 

MVP is based off numbers but it also has the element of winning. Allen's numbers were similar to last year's but he wasn't even in the conversation for MVP. In fact just off the top of my head the last 4 MVPs (Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers x2) were the QB of the team with the 1 seed in the playoffs. Brady before that too.

 

Numbers are not everything. 

Staley drove me crazy this season with what were statistically based decisions that logically made no sense, like going for it on 4th down deep in his own territory.  I think he lost more games than he won with what appeared to be blindly following percentages without regard to the downside.  If stats say you have a 70% chance of success, but if it doesn't work that 30% costs you the game, you eschew the 70% & live to play for another possession.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

16 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I could be wrong, but I think Watt enjoyed the publicity he received from joining the Cards. I wouldn’t be shocked if that was his priority. The Cards never should have been his number one option if he wanted a real title contender. 

 

I dont think he cares about that, it was the money and the cards were a contender and looked like legit championships caliber during the season. Maybe Watt getting injured took em down a notch, he still had an impact in their playoff loss. I know for a fact he cost us the Houston loss in the playoffs as he abused Cody Ford in the second half and made Allen run for his life.

 

If i had him here , i would limit his touches in season and let him loose in the playoffs.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Big Turk]

Apparently from people who know him, he is extremely moody and immature. Not surprising he has late season fades when things get tough.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Big Turk

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, Big Turk said:

Apparently from people who know him, he is extremely moody and immature.

 

Happens when you're a spoiled athlete 

 

 

[SirAndrew]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I dont think he cares about that, it was the money and the cards were a contender and looked like legit championships caliber during the season. Maybe Watt getting injured took em down a notch, he still had an impact in their playoff loss. I know for a fact he cost us the Houston loss in the playoffs as he abused Cody Ford in the second half and made Allen run for his life.

 

If i had him here , i would limit his touches in season and let him loose in the playoffs.

 

 

I agree, I’m just responding to the idea that Watt might regret signing with the Cards. They gave him the best offer. I don’t know the guy, but when your bank account looks good, that might eliminate regret of not winning a title. I think every athlete wants to win, but money and marketing opportunities matter. I think Watt cares deeply about promoting himself, and Buffalo isn’t the place to do that, although I could be wrong. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by SirAndrew

[HOUSE]

So he threw one lucky hail mary pass, now he wants more money.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:23 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

In that statement we can agree. 

 

There is also a place (as I firmly believe) that the 2 sides intersect. You need the film sometimes to explain why the stats are what they are. The stats are the outcome. The film is the "why" so to speak. 

 

Allen's rookie year for example. The stats said this kid may wash out of the league before his rookie deal was up. Numbers...terrible.  However anyone that objectively watched him saw the "it" factor so to speak. The plays he flashed in addition to the ones he didn't. 

 

The stats now reflect what we all saw as a rookie. They are measured numbers that chart just how much progress he has made. Of course...we all saw it coming because we watched the games. The simple fact that he is able to meet and exceed the productivity of the guys like Mayfield and Murray who were considered much further along are proven by both the film and the numbers. 

 

1 hour ago, dma0034 said:

 

 

Statistics are part of the reason why coaches go for it in certain situations but personality has to be a bigger factor. Obviously the best example of this is when Ron Rivera started going for it more often in Carolina because his job was on the line so he took a riskier approach. 

 

MVP is based off numbers but it also has the element of winning. Allen's numbers were similar to last year's but he wasn't even in the conversation for MVP. In fact just off the top of my head the last 4 MVPs (Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers x2) were the QB of the team with the 1 seed in the playoffs. Brady before that too.

 

Numbers are not everything. 

Which is why I stated the above.

 

You are replying to a small part of what was being discussed.  The original topic of conversation was, in fact about statistics and a STATISTIC based comparison. When discussing how 2 players match up in that manner, then yes the numbers are everything. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

58 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Apparently from people who know him, he is extremely moody and immature. Not surprising he has late season fades when things get tough.

Maybe he needs more Fidium fiber in his diet? 🤔

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

54 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree, I’m just responding to the idea that Watt might regret signing with the Cards. They gave him the best offer. I don’t know the guy, but when your bank account looks good, that might eliminate regret of not winning a title. I think every athlete wants to win, but money and marketing opportunities matter. I think Watt cares deeply about promoting himself, and Buffalo isn’t the place to do that, although I could be wrong. 

 

Maybe.

 

Some of Those guys guys like that Arizona weather, no thanks, too Friggin HOT !!

 

 

[Big Blitz]

4D chess

 

 

 

[Doc]

I think location heavily factored into Watt’s decision. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

I think location heavily factored into Watt’s decision. 

It's a dry heat? 🤔😁

[Captain Hindsight]

This Is all a Super Bowl commercial preview I bet. Can’t be as dumb as two teenage girls  trying to one uP each other right?

[HappyDays]

 

[RaoulDuke79]

Murray needs to get some thicker skin.

 

Report: Murray frustrated with Cardinals, embarrassed by playoff loss

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/2296044

 

[davefan66]

13 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Murray needs to get some thicker skin.

 

Report: Murray frustrated with Cardinals, embarrassed by playoff loss

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/2296044

 

Josh was part of an epic loss and doesn’t throw a temper tantrum.  Doesn’t blame anyone.

 

Bills hit it out of the park with Josh.  Generational talent, and a solid dude.