Bills interviewing Raiders WR coach Edgar Bennett for OC

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong, but I think the teams can no longer block a promotion to coordinator with another team.

Any other assistant, it can be "you're under contract, Sorry"

 

That's not to say that the Bills wouldn't release someone for a move they perceive as a development opportunity, but my point is it's not like Daboll gets to sit there looking at the Bills assistant coaches like a Chinese menu he can select from for any position.

 

 

 

 

This

 

Right but McDermott I think but in my opinion would talk to the coaches first. He wouldn't block them if they want to leave.  But IMO. 

3 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

The bills are definitely doing due diligence for if daboll raids the bills staff 

 

Right . It is good to do due diligence 

 

 

[Buffalo Junction]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong, but I think the teams can no longer block a promotion to coordinator with another team.

Any other assistant, it can be "you're under contract, Sorry"

 

That's not to say that the Bills wouldn't release someone for a move they perceive as a development opportunity, but my point is it's not like Daboll gets to sit there looking at the Bills assistant coaches like a Chinese menu he can select from for any position.

McD has let a few other assistant coaches take promotions elsewhere. I doubt he’d block guys unless it he either didn’t see an available upgrade or Daboll was basically raiding the staff. In any case, Bennett would be a nice addition to the staff if he’s stuck floating after the Raiders hired McDaniels. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Right but McDermott I think but in my opinion would talk to the coaches first. He wouldn't block them if they want to leave.  But IMO. 

 

Right . It is good to do due diligence 

 

 

 

My point is, these Giants guys (and others) don't seem to have the memo that the NFL rule change applied to COORDINATOR POSITIONS.

So Bobby Johnson could interview as Daboll's offensive coordinator, and the Bills couldn't block it.

 

But Daboll does not get to bring up the list of assistant coaches and say "I'll have Chad Hall as my WR coach and Bobby Johnson as my OL coach and and and...." 

 

It could still happen, if the Bills bring in a new OC who wants to bring in some of his own assistants, OR if, as you say, McDermott talks to the coaches and decides to let them go.

 

But it's the Bills choice

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2892442-report-nfl-owners-ban-blocking-assistants-from-interviewing-for-oc-dc-jobs

[WotAGuy]

2 hours ago, jahnyc said:

Maybe they are promoting Hall and are also looking at these candidates potentially to be the new WR coach.

Making Hall the DC. Can it be worse?

[Chaos]

At this point, Allen should just take over punting and OC duties.  And probably call the defensive plays when he is on the sideline. 

[ColoradoBills]

13 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

The bills are definitely doing due diligence for if daboll raids the bills staff 

 

That might be a realistic point.

 

Generally, I don't get why this board is going crazy.  Let OBD do their job and wait to see what happens.

Probably too much to ask.

 

Nobody knows what's going on behind closed doors.

[78thealltimegreat]

I can see Daboll trying to take the entire offensive staff with him it’s literally the only place he’s ever been successful as an OC 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

McD has let a few other assistant coaches take promotions elsewhere. I doubt he’d block guys unless it he either didn’t see an available upgrade or Daboll was basically raiding the staff. In any case, Bennett would be a nice addition to the staff if he’s stuck floating after the Raiders hired McDaniels. 

 

Has he?  Who?

 

Bill Teerlinck did a lateral move (maybe a step down) from Bills DL coach to VT DL coach, but it was commonly believed he allowed Teerlinck the "face saving" step of taking a new job vs. firing him to make room for Eric Washington, who had just lost his coaching job with the Panthers.  Similar "face saving" with David Culley taking a more-or-less lateral move to "assistant head coach, passing game coordinator, and WR coach" to bring in Ken Dorsey

 

McDermott fired Rick Dennison after the 2017 season and "Teflon" Juan Castillo after the 2018 season.  He fired Terry Robiskie after one season in 2018.

 

I'm trying to think of who else has left? 

Just now, 78thealltimegreat said:

I can see Daboll trying to take the entire offensive staff with him it’s literally the only place he’s ever been successful as an OC 

 

He Can't.  Beane and McDermott are not going to allow this, and he can only hire one OC and one DC.

[78thealltimegreat]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Has he?  Who?

 

Bill Teerlinck did a lateral move (maybe a step down) from Bills DL coach to VT DL coach, but it was commonly believed he allowed Teerlinck the "face saving" step of taking a new job vs. firing him to make room for Eric Washington, who had just lost his coaching job with the Panthers.  Similar "face saving" with David Culley taking a more-or-less lateral move to "assistant head coach, passing game coordinator, and WR coach" to bring in Ken Dorsey

 

McDermott fired Rick Dennison after the 2017 season and "Teflon" Juan Castillo after the 2018 season.  He fired Terry Robiskie after one season in 2018.

 

I'm trying to think of who else has left? 

 

He Can't.  Beane and McDermott are not going to allow this, and he can only hire one OC and one DC.

I’m just saying I can see him trying as about a month ago people wanted Bobby Johnson run out of town 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’m just saying I can see him trying as about a month ago people wanted Bobby Johnson run out of town 

 

As Buddy Nix used to say, "if you start listening to the fans, pretty soon you'll be sitting with them"

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

As Buddy Nix used to say, "if you start listening to the fans, pretty soon you'll be sitting with them"

Buddy would have been better served to listen to the fans. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Buddy would have been better served to listen to the fans. 

 

Heh.  Yeah, arguably so, at times.

[78thealltimegreat]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

As Buddy Nix used to say, "if you start listening to the fans, pretty soon you'll be sitting with them"

He was one of the worst GMS in Bills history you probably want to use someone else as a reference 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

He was one of the worst GMS in Bills history you probably want to use someone else as a reference 

 

Is the quote correct, or is the quote not correct?

[78thealltimegreat]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Is the quote correct, or is the quote not correct?

Depends on the situation….and see the oline during the Jaguars game where we made the other Josh Allen look like Lawrence Taylor 

1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Depends on the situation….and see the oline during the Jaguars game where we made the other Josh Allen look like Lawrence Taylor 

And it was Marv Levy who started that 

[YoloinOhio]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Is the quote correct, or is the quote not correct?

It’s correct and I think also Bill Polian said this 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

It’s correct and I think also Bill Polian said this 

And Marv Levy 

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong, but I think the teams can no longer block a promotion to coordinator with another team.

Any other assistant, it can be "you're under contract, Sorry"

 

That's not to say that the Bills wouldn't release someone for a move they perceive as a development opportunity, but my point is it's not like Daboll gets to sit there looking at the Bills assistant coaches like a Chinese menu he can select from for any position.

 

 

 

 

This.  Quit pining for Palmer, folks - the man wants to live in a beach house in S. Cali and give Zoom interviews, not work hectic 100-112 hr weeks in less salubrius settings for 5 or (hopefully) 6 months a year with intense scrutiny and accountability every week

And josh couldn’t work with him as much in the off-season if he was on staff.  That’s important, too. 

[Billsfanatixs]

I am not trying to be racist, but isn't league rule that you have to interview non-white people for all coaching jobs? Hard to say such things without sounding racist, I assure you all that it's not my intent.

 

[Buftex]

10 minutes ago, Billsfanatixs said:

I am not trying to be racist, but isn't league rule that you have to interview non-white people for all coaching jobs? Hard to say such things without sounding racist, I assure you all that it's not my intent.

 

I believe it only applies to Head Coaching positions, and as of the 2020 off-season, co-ordinators

 

[Malazan]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

We are so freaking screwed!

 

Does anyone know anything about this guy?

 

Using interviews to get information on what other teams are doing is a common practice. If the Bills were 99% sure of their guy, why wouldn't they use this opportunity to talk to some other people around the league? They need to maintain knowledge and connections to fill positions. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

The other thing they are doing is filling out their roll-a-dex with information and names they could contact in the future if something were to suddenly or not so suddenly change for any coaching position.  Basically taking advantage of the opportunity.

[Lagoon Blues]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

This.  Quit pining for Palmer, folks - the man wants to live in a beach house in S. Cali and give Zoom interviews, not work hectic 100-112 hr weeks in less salubrius settings for 5 or (hopefully) 6 months a year with intense scrutiny and accountability every week

I wonder how much he makes doing it...wonder what Josh and others pay him....i bet he is doing as well as a coordinator position with all the freedom in the world.

[Robert Paulson]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

Bill Teerlinck did a lateral move (maybe a step down) from Bills DL coach to VT DL coach, but it was commonly believed he allowed Teerlinck the "face saving" step of taking a new job vs. firing him to make room for Eric Washington, who had just lost his coaching job with the Panthers.  Similar "face saving" with David Culley taking a more-or-less lateral move to "assistant head coach, passing game coordinator, and WR coach" to bring in Ken Dorsey

 

He should let ole Leslie save face and give him a front office 'consultant' job.  mid season Leslie had the bo!!s to say he never makes half time adjustments because if he did the players would not believe in the game plan. 

 

Luck favours the bold and ole Leslie is not bold to say the least.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, Lagoon Blues said:

I wonder how much he makes doing it...wonder what Josh and others pay him....i bet he is doing as well as a coordinator position with all the freedom in the world.

 

I'm gonna spit-ball here.

 

Palmer and his "QB Summit" company do  12 camps "limited" to 40 QB at $1500 per QB.  That's $720,000 right there.  They do offer discounts for 2 or 3 camps, but even assuming a 50% discount that's $360,000.  Obviously that's gross not net, and there's facility rental, assistants, etc.  But I can see the overhead being pretty low, given that some of his pupils might assist for reduced rates on training or free training (Kyle Allen, say?)

 

He has digital memberships which give access to coaching videos, film breakdowns, and live sessions for $159/month.  No idea how many people subscribe. 

Let's say most of his QB campers do, and double that number of other QB, maybe for 3 months of off-season improvement.  That's $686,880.  Again assume he gives a hefty discount -right now his website says 50% off, that's $343,440.  Once he's got the videos and the material created and online, that's probably pretty much all profit.

 

He offers 6 weeks of 1:1 mechanics review training with Mike White (the biomechanics guy).  That says "sold out" so I couldn't get info on price.  But if he's charging $750/day for a camp, maybe $125,000 - $250,000 for 6 weeks including, say, twice daily 1:1 sessions? he could perhaps do 6 per day.  Pick the lower bound - $750,000.  Say he splits it with the biomechanics guy, 1:1, $375,000.

 

Then he seems to take on ~3 QB per season for NFL preparation.  I don't know what he charges for that, but given that even the #32 1st round pick gets a $10.8M salary with a $5M signing bonus - could be hefty.  Maybe 6 weeks of prep for a similar price,  but only 3 guys.  Another $750,000?

 

Basically, he could be grossing a couple million a year from his QB summit business, leaving aside his NFL clients.  And I could be off by a factor of 10.

 

Josh Allen and Joe Burrow are his most successful pupils to date (Burrow did draft prep with Palmer and  also worked with Palmer and the biomechanics guy after his rehab).  So it probably behooves Palmer to keep their business, since their endorsement as his pupils undoubtedly helps him bring in a lot of HS and some college QB to his business.   But when you're the $253M man, you can afford to pay $250,000 to $500,000 for your personal off-season QB trainer to do whatever for you.

 

In contrast, an NFL QB coach is said to make $200,000-400,000.

 

 

1 hour ago, Billsfanatixs said:

I am not trying to be racist, but isn't league rule that you have to interview non-white people for all coaching jobs? Hard to say such things without sounding racist, I assure you all that it's not my intent.

 

 

The rule's the rule.  No, it's not all coaching jobs.  It's coordinator positions (OC, DC, ST), HC, and various FO positions

[hondo in seattle]

14 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It could equally tell us that Dorsey agreed to stay, but since we HAVE to interview at least 1 minority candidate before making a hire we are doing some guys some favors, and expanding our network, and looking for replacements for some position coaches.

 

I think "expanding our network" is the thing.  I'm guessing they've already got a verbal deal in place with Dorsey and now need to meet the requirements of the Rooney Rule.  So why not use the opportunity to get to know more about a couple coaches they've heard good things about?  Could be guys we want latter on.  

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by hondo in seattle

[Lagoon Blues]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm gonna spit-ball here.

 

Palmer and his "QB Summit" company do  12 camps "limited" to 40 QB at $1500 per QB.  That's $720,000 right there.  They do offer discounts for 2 or 3 camps, but even assuming a 50% discount that's $360,000.  Obviously that's gross not net, and there's facility rental, assistants, etc.  But I can see the overhead being pretty low, given that some of his pupils might assist for reduced rates on training or free training (Kyle Allen, say?)

 

He has digital memberships which give access to coaching videos, film breakdowns, and live sessions for $159/month.  No idea how many people subscribe. 

Let's say most of his QB campers do, and double that number of other QB, maybe for 3 months of off-season improvement.  That's $686,880.  Again assume he gives a hefty discount -right now his website says 50% off, that's $343,440.  Once he's got the videos and the material created and online, that's probably pretty much all profit.

 

He offers 6 weeks of 1:1 mechanics review training with Mike White (the biomechanics guy).  That says "sold out" so I couldn't get info on price.  But if he's charging $750/day for a camp, maybe $125,000 - $250,000 for 6 weeks including, say, twice daily 1:1 sessions? he could perhaps do 6 per day.  Pick the lower bound - $750,000.  Say he splits it with the biomechanics guy, 1:1, $375,000.

 

Then he seems to take on ~3 QB per season for NFL preparation.  I don't know what he charges for that, but given that even the #32 1st round pick gets a $10.8M salary with a $5M signing bonus - could be hefty.  Maybe 6 weeks of prep for a similar price,  but only 3 guys.  Another $750,000?

 

Basically, he could be grossing a couple million a year from his QB summit business, leaving aside his NFL clients.  And I could be off by a factor of 10.

 

Josh Allen and Joe Burrow are his most successful pupils to date (Burrow did draft prep with Palmer and  also worked with Palmer and the biomechanics guy after his rehab).  So it probably behooves Palmer to keep their business, since their endorsement as his pupils undoubtedly helps him bring in a lot of HS and some college QB to his business.   But when you're the $253M man, you can afford to pay $250,000 to $500,000 for your personal off-season QB trainer to do whatever for you.

 

In contrast, an NFL QB coach is said to make $200,000-400,000.

 

Thanks for breaking it down how it possbly could ball park man...good stuff... really quite evident how good he has it right now.

[purple haze]

6 hours ago, JohnNord said:

These are terrible candidates.   Edgar Bennett was garbage in GB

Daboll was Terrible in previous stops too.  This is a different time and a different  situation.

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

He should let ole Leslie save face and give him a front office 'consultant' job.  mid season Leslie had the bo!!s to say he never makes half time adjustments because if he did the players would not believe in the game plan. 

 

Luck favours the bold and ole Leslie is not bold to say the least.

Is the bolded true? Can you share where you learned this? That can't be true. Please don't let it be true.

[Richard Noggin]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Believe he said it after the Colts game…

Say it ain't so.

 

To my ears that sounds...disqualifying.

[Buffalo Junction]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Has he?  Who?

 

Bill Teerlinck did a lateral move (maybe a step down) from Bills DL coach to VT DL coach, but it was commonly believed he allowed Teerlinck the "face saving" step of taking a new job vs. firing him to make room for Eric Washington, who had just lost his coaching job with the Panthers.  Similar "face saving" with David Culley taking a more-or-less lateral move to "assistant head coach, passing game coordinator, and WR coach" to bring in Ken Dorsey

 

McDermott fired Rick Dennison after the 2017 season and "Teflon" Juan Castillo after the 2018 season.  He fired Terry Robiskie after one season in 2018.

 

I'm trying to think of who else has left? 

Gill Byrd and Robiski as well as a few entry level coaches. I think McD subscribes to the same philosophy as Reid who came from the Holmgren tree…. Let those guys spread their wings as stunting a career could breed resentment or poor performance. It’s about having the right mix of people who are all in. He’s eluded to that in pressers before, and if anything McD has shown a level of consistency and professionalism. 

[Richard Noggin]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

So no, he didn’t exactly say that…. Below is the link. Essentially the question was asked if they thought about getting out of the nickel against the Colts who were running down their throats and Leslie suggested it wasn’t even discussed because they thought they had a good plan going in and it just didn’t work out. around 1:30…. Either way, it is what we’ve seen from them since being here. Slowness to adjust or not adjusting in game at all.
 

 

Okay, thank you for this.

 

Obviously the gameplan did NOT work, even a little bit. I remember the Bills missing TONS of tackles, though. Reminds me a little of the approach to the Chiefs last regular season, insofar as the Bills were unable to execute when the opposition did as invited to do (run relentlessly). Might be that they didn't have the personnel to win their chosen matchups, which represents a failure of self-scouting among other things. 

 

And also, you have to effing switch it up a LITTLE, don't you?! Unless you've got just objectively superior talent, you have to keep a competent offense guessing from time to time. 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This.  Quit pining for Palmer, folks - the man wants to live in a beach house in S. Cali and give Zoom interviews, not work hectic 100-112 hr weeks in less salubrius settings for 5 or (hopefully) 6 months a year with intense scrutiny and accountability every week

 

Oh I'll pine alright... I'll pine like you've never seen anybody pine before.

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

So no, he didn’t exactly say that…. Below is the link. Essentially the question was asked if they thought about getting out of the nickel against the Colts who were running down their throats and Leslie suggested it wasn’t even discussed because they thought they had a good plan going in and it just didn’t work out. around 1:30…. Either way, it is what we’ve seen from them since being here. Slowness to adjust or not adjusting in game at all.
 

 

 

That's really kind of misrepresenting what Frazier said there.  He said that they weren't executing, and if you're not executing, being in another personnel grouping isn't really going to solve it.   That kind of doesn't make sense unless one feels that he felt the DL, more than the LB/CB, were the problem.  At least not to me.

 

This isn't the interview where Frazier said they don't like to make adjustments.  That was in a piece on the Bills shown at halftime during the Oct 18 Titans game.

He said something to the effect that "we don't like to adjust the gameplan".  He cast it as causing the players to "lose confidence" by the message "we worked on this all week and now you're changing it already?"

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Okay, thank you for this.

 

Obviously the gameplan did NOT work, even a little bit. I remember the Bills missing TONS of tackles, though. Reminds me a little of the approach to the Chiefs last regular season, insofar as the Bills were unable to execute when the opposition did as invited to do (run relentlessly). Might be that they didn't have the personnel to win their chosen matchups, which represents a failure of self-scouting among other things. 

 

And also, you have to effing switch it up a LITTLE, don't you?! Unless you've got just objectively superior talent, you have to keep a competent offense guessing from time to time. 

 

In the game where the Titans gashed us on run D and the Bills defense didn't adjust, @Shaw66 commented on what he saw:

Quote

As for the defense, it was pretty simple, and ESPN showed it on one replay late in the game.   By the fourth quarter, the Bills were overreacting so much to the play fake that they were leaving the huge expanses of open field underneath the safeties and corners, and Tannehill was having no trouble finding open receivers for easy completions.  I say overreacting because as I've thought more about the game and looked at the stats, I realized that Henry didn't kill the Bills.   It fell like he did, but the numbers say otherwise.   He had a yard run.  Take that away, and he gained 3.5 yards per carry.   The Bills stopped him a lot at the LOS, and he got a few 10-yard runs or so.  

 

Boy, does that "huge expanses of open field underneath the safeties and corners" have a familiar sound to it.

 

It happened in the Houston playoff game near the end.  It happened in the Titans game.  It happened at the end of the Chiefs game.  Some of the reasons and details may differ, but I'm very concerned about what seems to be a recurring theme here.

 

I'm not sure it comes from Frazier, and not from McDermott.  I think McDermott has a lot of influence on the D, and if this were something he saw as a fatal problem it would never happen again.

[Mark Vader]

8 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Come on home Zay!

If we hire him, can he bring Hunter Renfrow along too?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Their scheme has issues. There are game where it is just completely exposed as witnesses against the Chiefs. Something needs to change…. Not sure it will until Leslie is fired or McD realizes he has to switch some things up.

Yes he said something different which is what I said…. Either way it didn’t make sense.😅

 

And thanks for the clarification…. So he did really say it? Honestly not sure why he’s still here. 

 

Yeah, he did really say it.   I assume he's still here because it either reflects McDermott's personal philosophy or is something he is willing to accept.

I think it's reflected organizationally: for example, obviously the Chiefs benefitted Big Time by trading for Ingram; the Rams benefitted by trading for Von Miller and by signing Beckham. 

 

I can't think of a significant mid-season move that Beane has made recently.  He signed Jordan Phillips off waivers in 2018.  Can anyone else?

 

I don't think "their scheme" per se has "issues", depending upon what you mean by scheme (4-2-5 base, etc).  It's the details of how they execute that scheme - how deep guys play, are they playing outside leverage, are they giving the WR a free release or jamming them?  Some of these choices may be influenced by the capabilities of the players in the scheme - for example, Jackson and Wallace can not jam a receiver on the line and then recover.

 

I do think both Frazier and McDermott are philosophically way way too slow to make adjustments, and I'm not sure overall we can win big games like that.  But hopefully I'm wrong, and McDermott is growth-minded and will be willing and able to change.

[MJS]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

New rules require two so....

Isn't it just one for coordinators?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, MJS said:

Isn't it just one for coordinators?

 

Not since this fall

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/10/28/nfl-rooney-rule-changes-interviewing-process

Quote

The rule has been expanded to require teams to interview at least two external minority candidates for general manager/executive of football operations positions, and all coordinator roles. Beforehand, the requirement was to interview one minority from outside a team for openings in those positions.

 

[PrimeTime101]

11 hours ago, Process said:

He's 52 years old 

man thats old..