MYTH Busted: "The Defense couldn't stop the Run"

[The Frankish Reich]

43 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

What more could the Defense have done?

You mean other than holding them to less than 220 yards rushing? 

Other than holding a team that passed for 19 yards to less than 14 points?

Other than stopping a team that didn't even pretend to be attempting a pass from a 65 yard TD run?

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Bruce Smith said:

What a load of bull####.  They gave up over 200 yards not he ground when we knew it was coming and could do nothing to stop it when it mattered.  

Oh and NE gave up way less (and YPC) and the Bills were balanced and passing the ball. 

[Fred Slacks]

36 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Defense played fine.

 

It was always a lazy take that the defense was the problem. They allowed 14 total points.

 

While were in the mood of busting myths, Belichick was not a great coach last night.

 

For all of the rushing yards the Patriots had, they only put up 14 points.

 

If Diggs catches that TD pass, no one is talking about Belichick at all today.  Because the Bills would have won. Belichick's gameplan was *****. He ran it almost 50 times, only scored 14 points, and it took the Bills a dropped TD, two dropped first downs, and a fumble where no one touched the RB, for the Pats to win by 4.

 

 

This....100%       I have been responding exactly this in other threads.  I thought Belicheck played scared and Mac Jones only attempting 3 passes shows how little trust he has in his QB.  Everyone talking like Belicheck's game plan to beat up the Bills are far fetched.  I think the Bills held the run pretty dang good.  I know the big play but that easily could have been washed if Diggs comes up with the bomb.

 

Another thing to note from last night was how much the announcers kept saying they should run at Dane Jackson and challenge him...and Dane Jackson kept making tackles.  Like they announcers didn't recognize that Dane Jackson was making tackles even as they were yammering about testing the run to his side.  Also Horrible Harry put together a nice game as well at first glance.  

[Mat68]

Just now, FireChans said:

The defense still sucked. The offense sucking doesn’t mean the defense didn’t. They both sucked

Holding a team to 14 points is not sucking.  14 is less than what Buffalo allows a game.  Half the amount of points that New England scores a game. The offense scoring 10 points was the issue.  

[zow2]

It's a shame the D got burned for long TD runs in two MNF games this season.  Both runs set the tone for what would turn into losses.  But really, those two runs happened early enough in the Tenn and NE games and the D did a decent job against the RB's before and after those runs.   But you can't just deduct the long TD's from their report card.  It's inexcusable.  

 

I put the game last night more on the offense than the D.   4 trips to the red zone and 10 points?  Two of those trips late, with the game on the line and zero points?!?  stinks.

 

 

[Fred Slacks]

I also want to go back and watch the game to see how bad NE was holding.  It seemed like it was happening a lot.  They maybe called NE 2 times all night on it.  Like I distinctly recall 2 plays where our DE/DT was in the backfield and it looked like they were getting held.  Right in front of the play.  something it seems like the referee would see.  I know some of those calls are a wash but I screamed from my couch so it must be true lol.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

14 minutes ago, damj said:

8 of the 14 points were a short field after a ST turnover. Otherwise, the D gave up 6 points.

 

The offense had 3 drives into the red zone in the 4th quarter and had 3 points.

 

Defense was not the problem

 

You're mixing the teams up 

 

The Bills were the team that recovered a ST turnover and scored on a short field

 

The only Bills turnover was by the offense (Breida's fumble) that NE recovered at their own 31

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Holding a team to 14 points is not sucking.  14 is less than what Buffalo allows a game.  Half the amount of points that New England scores a game. The offense scoring 10 points was the issue.  

They ran the ball above league average and didn’t have to attempt a pass all game. We knew the play and they still pantsed us. Stop.

[BeastMaster]

This is called manipulating stats to show them what you want them to

 

They did what they wanted to against us, by and large. It was their plan, and they executed it well enough to come out victorious.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

You're mixing the teams up 

 

The Bills were the team that recovered a ST turnover and scored on a short field

 

The only Bills turnover was by the offense (Breida's fumble) that NE recovered at their own 31

And scored 3 plays later, on what everyone knew was basically a run up the middle!!!

 

And they had 7 plays over 10 yards and that was all they were doing all night.....  3 Passes!!!!!  All the runs basically up the middle.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Billsfan1972

[The Frankish Reich]

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Oh and NE gave up way less (and YPC) and the Bills were balanced and passing the ball. 

Two cheers for "balanced offense!"

[PatsFanNH]

57 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Patriots had 9 real possessions all game (not counting the last to kill the clock).

 

They punted 6 out of 9 possessions.

 

4 of those punts were 3 and outs. The other 2 possessions were 4 plays and 5 plays. The only long drive they had resulted in a mere Field Goal.

 

What more could the Defense have done?

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

 The 4 and 5 play drives your D gave up 2 17 yard runs.. the second Harris hobbled out of bounds hurt and unable to continue.. the truth is, when you needed a stop they gave up a 14 play drive for the FG. 

[pigpen65]

52 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Defense played fine.

 

It was always a lazy take that the defense was the problem. They allowed 14 total points.

 

While were in the mood of busting myths, Belichick was not a great coach last night.

 

For all of the rushing yards the Patriots had, they only put up 14 points.

 

If Diggs catches that TD pass, no one is talking about Belichick at all today.  Because the Bills would have won. Belichick's gameplan was *****. He ran it almost 50 times, only scored 14 points, and it took the Bills a dropped TD, two dropped first downs, and a fumble where no one touched the RB, for the Pats to win by 4.

 

 

I don't think the BB praise is aimed at his awesome gameplan, it's aimed at his team's preparedness, discipline, and execution. They just won a weather game in primetime on the road with a rookie QB who wasn't asked to do anything other than band the ball off. If Jones had been injured and they had to play a defensive lineman at QB they still would have won the game. If you don't praise coaching for that you are underestimating the influence of coaching.

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Two cheers for "balanced offense!"

The point is NE had to prepare for both runs and passes, all Buffalo had to do was stop the run (there were no passes).  They FAILED!!!!!!

[Mat68]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They ran the ball above league average and didn’t have to attempt a pass all game. We knew the play and they still pantsed us. Stop.

14 points.  Buffalo had the ball 2 times in the 4th inside the 10 and got 0 points.  A team is not dominated when they had 2 separate chances to take the lead in the last 8 mins of the game. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

14 points.  Buffalo had the ball 2 times in the 4th inside the 10 and got 0 points.  A team is not dominated when they had 2 separate chances to take the lead in the last 8 mins of the game. 

The defense can keep their head high knowing that they got the answers to the test and scored 80%. I won’t.

[colin]

the way we are built, we are weak against the run, it's just that simple.  last night it showed when we got trucked a few times, and most of all on that long td run.  i give our d a ton of credit for playing balls out all night and doing everything in the power to help us win.  the goal line stand was essentially heroic.

 

our d has laid two big eggs today, indy and tenn.  those losses are on them.  the rest is all on the O, and to a lesser extent on special teams (pittz)

[The Frankish Reich]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The point is NE had to prepare for both runs and passes, all Buffalo had to do was stop the run (there were no passes).  They FAILED!!!!!!

Agreed. Just having fun with the idea that Daboll probably considers last night a success because his team found a way to move the ball through the air while the other guys didn't.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, colin said:

the way we are built, we are weak against the run, it's just that simple.  last night it showed when we got trucked a few times, and most of all on that long td run.  i give our d a ton of credit for playing balls out all night and doing everything in the power to help us win.  the goal line stand was essentially heroic.

 

our d has laid two big eggs today, indy and tenn.  those losses are on them.  the rest is all on the O, and to a lesser extent on special teams (pittz)

What goal line stand????  You mean 1st and goal from the 10 and not going to pass?????😡

[JimmyNoodles]

I don't understand why this has to be a "who sucked more" the offense or the defense.  Both sides sucked and there is blame everywhere.  However, when the opposing team walks to the line of scrimmage and says "Hey Buffalo, we're going to run the ball this play"  and your defense can't stop it then you got manhandled and it is an embarrassment.  You can blame personnel, you can blame the scheme, you can say whatever, but they couldn't stop them.  This game goes down in the vast history of unbelieveable Bills' losses.  3 pass plays....we got crushed.   

[Bruce Smith]

BB running a QB sneak on 3rd and 5 says it all.  The Bills D is soft against the run.  It told the world he knew with two downs he could out physical this front.  

[RyanC883]

you simply cannot allow game killing long TD runs in 2 games.  You are not a great run D if you do that.  period.  

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

I don't think the BB praise is aimed at his awesome gameplan, it's aimed at his team's preparedness, discipline, and execution. They just won a weather game in primetime on the road with a rookie QB who wasn't asked to do anything other than band the ball off. If Jones had been injured and they had to play a defensive lineman at QB they still would have won the game. If you don't praise coaching for that you are underestimating the influence of coaching.

 

What preparedness?

Did they cause Diggs to drop a perfectly thrown TD pass where the Patriot defender was burnt like wheat toast?
Did they cause Breida to drop the ball, even though no one touched him?

Perhaps you can say they caused one of Knox's numerous drops?

 

Did their discipline stop them from committing a costly personal foul that extended a Bills drive?
 

Did their execution put more than 14 points on the board?

 

I don't see it.

 

29 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

You mean other than holding them to less than 220 yards rushing? 

Other than holding a team that passed for 19 yards to less than 14 points?

Other than stopping a team that didn't even pretend to be attempting a pass from a 65 yard TD run?

 

Would you have been happier if they held them to 50 yards rushing and 14 points?

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Patriots had 9 real possessions all game (not counting the last to kill the clock).

 

They punted 6 out of 9 possessions.

 

4 of those punts were 3 and outs. The other 2 possessions were 4 plays and 5 plays. The only long drive they had resulted in a mere Field Goal.

 

What more could the Defense have done?

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

 

 

I have been saying it over and over...and will say it again here...Every loss we have this year was due to self inflicted mistakes.  We have an uncanny way of shooting ourselves in the foot with untimely penalties killing drives or extending opponents drives, unforced turnovers, dropped passes, etc.  

 

Our defense was not why we lost last night, I mean outside the one TD run, they held up pretty good considering.  

[RyanC883]

26 minutes ago, zow2 said:

It's a shame the D got burned for long TD runs in two MNF games this season.  Both runs set the tone for what would turn into losses.  But really, those two runs happened early enough in the Tenn and NE games and the D did a decent job against the RB's before and after those runs.   But you can't just deduct the long TD's from their report card.  It's inexcusable.  

 

I put the game last night more on the offense than the D.   4 trips to the red zone and 10 points?  Two of those trips late, with the game on the line and zero points?!?  stinks.

 

 

 

both O and D sucked.  The season long run game issues and red zone implosions are inexcusable. 

[UB2SF]

40 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A 64 yard TD run, when you know they are running is unacceptable.  Did the Bills do that?????

That play was a total defensive breakdown with multiple guys out of position at once. BUT, it was within the first 10 plays on offense for the Patriots, and they had already passed once, so I don't think anyone honestly "knew" they were rushing on that play. Without one awful defensive breakdown the Patriots probably don't score a TD and the whole dynamic of the game changes.

[RyanC883]

46 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A 64 yard TD run, when you know they are running is unacceptable.  Did the Bills do that?????

 

2 times we did.  

2 minutes ago, UB2SF said:

That play was a total defensive breakdown with multiple guys out of position at once. BUT, it was within the first 10 plays on offense for the Patriots, and they had already passed once, so I don't think anyone honestly "knew" they were rushing on that play. Without one awful defensive breakdown the Patriots probably don't score a TD and the whole dynamic of the game changes.

 

then the pats pass it to the TE’s a bit to setup the run again.   The run D was bad

[DrDawkinstein]

25 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

This is called manipulating stats to show them what you want them to

 

They did what they wanted to against us, by and large. It was their plan, and they executed it well enough to come out victorious.

 

 

 

So they wanted to punt 6 out of 9 times, and only score 14 points all game. Got it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Patriots had 9 real possessions all game (not counting the last to kill the clock).

 

They punted 6 out of 9 possessions.

 

4 of those punts were 3 and outs. The other 2 possessions were 4 plays and 5 plays. The only long drive they had resulted in a mere Field Goal.

 

What more could the Defense have done?

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)  <~~this one 

FG (9 plays)  <~~this one 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)  <~~this one 

Punt (3 plays)

 

I’ve identified the opportunities. this bills shut out this same offensive approach 16-0 in 2016. When you know the team is running every single down, it’s embarrassing to get scored on. 

[colin]

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

What goal line stand????  You mean 1st and goal from the 10 and not going to pass?????😡

 

 

ya, i was impressed with how hard the bills worked to stop it, and go the job done, after getting trucked for a long drive.  it was a solid defensive stand.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Most of my gripes come with the offense, but the defense is also complicit.

 

You can’t not count the Harris TD run just like you can’t not count the Henry TD run. Or any other play that happens in a game. In those two tight important conference matchups, part of the reason we lost was giving up a huge rushing play. Last night it was a huge rushing play in addition to regularly getting pushed back. 

 

The inability of Buffalo’s defense to stop the run also made it tougher on their offense. Pats* led the Bills by 4 minutes in time of possession. Can’t score without the ball. 
 

The most inexcusable part is that Buffalo’s defense had to know the run was coming most of the game and still could not adjust to stop a one-dimensional offense. Seems Frazier tweaked his play-calling way too late in the game and regardless our defensive line just got physically outmatched and controlled. 
 

I would like a game breaking/controlling DT to put alongside Oliver. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by JohnBonhamRocks

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Most of my gripes come with the offense, but the defense is also complicit.

 

You can’t not count the Harris TD run just like you can’t not count the Henry TD run. Or any other play that happens in a game. In those two tight important conference matchups, part of the reason we lost was giving up a huge rushing play. Last night it was a huge rushing play in addition to regularly getting pushed back. 

 

I never said to not count that run. I'll fully count it. One.

 

The defense had ONE bad play.

 

2 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

The inability of Buffalo’s defense to stop the run also made it tougher on their offense. Pats* led the Bills by 4 minutes in time of possession. Can’t score without the ball. 
 

 

Bills started at about the 40 yard line all night. They had at least 3 possessions to try to score and tie or take the lead. They failed. That isnt on the Defense.

 

2 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

The most inexcusable part is that Buffalo’s defense had to know the run was coming most of the game and still could not adjust to stop a one-dimensional offense. Seems Frazier tweaked his play-calling way too late in the game and regardless our defensive line just got physically outmatched controlled. 
 

I would like a game breaking/controlling DT to put alongside Oliver. 

 

How did they not stop it when they held them to punts and 2 FGs for most of the night? If any NFL team keeps doing one thing over and over, they'll amass some yardage and success. The Pats are paid professionals too.

Edited December 7, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

You can't throw away the 65 yard td run. It just should never have happened. It just jerking the numbers around to say they didn't really average 4.8/carry and gain 222 yards. It was the biggest play of the game, I mean would you  just throw out the blocked punt you lost on.

 

I'm getting the feeling alot of people are trying to misremember how dominant the NE O-line played last night. Do you really think the Pats and BB are disappointed in their line and running attack.

 

I know one team who should be disappointed in its own.

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I never said to not count that run. I'll fully count it. One.

 

The defense had ONE bad play.

They had many more than one, and that one cannot happen.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

You can't throw away the 65 yard td run. It just should never have happened. It just jerking the numbers around to say they didn't really average 4.8/carry and gain 222 yards. It was the biggest play of the game, I mean would you  just throw out the blocked punt you lost on.

 

I'm getting the feeling alot of people are trying to misremember how dominant the NE O-line played last night. Do you really think the Pats and BB are disappointed in their line and running attack.

 

I know one team who should be disappointed in its own.

 

First off, everyone needs to stop about the 222 yards rushing...If a team rushes that many times and throws just 3 times, guess what, the rushing yard total is going to seem high.  

 

End of the day, we gave up less than 250 yards on the day, forced 6 punts and only allowed 2 drives over 5 plays.  Thats a good defensive effort.  To fault the D here and point at something like "total rush yards" in a game they threw 3 times is just bad analysis.  

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

You can't throw away the 65 yard td run. It just should never have happened. It just jerking the numbers around to say they didn't really average 4.8/carry and gain 222 yards. It was the biggest play of the game, I mean would you  just throw out the blocked punt you lost on.

 

I'm getting the feeling alot of people are trying to misremember how dominant the NE O-line played last night. Do you really think the Pats and BB are disappointed in their line and running attack.

 

I know one team who should be disappointed in its own.

They had many more than one, and that one cannot happen.

 

Why do people keep saying this? No one has said to throw that play away. It's a total strawman. Stop it.

3 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

They had many more than one, and that one cannot happen.

 

Name 3.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Most of my gripes come with the offense, but the defense is also complicit.

 

You can’t not count the Harris TD run just like you can’t not count the Henry TD run. Or any other play that happens in a game. In those two tight important conference matchups, part of the reason we lost was giving up a huge rushing play. Last night it was a huge rushing play in addition to regularly getting pushed back. 

 

The inability of Buffalo’s defense to stop the run also made it tougher on their offense. Pats* led the Bills by 4 minutes in time of possession. Can’t score without the ball. 
 

The most inexcusable part is that Buffalo’s defense had to know the run was coming most of the game and still could not adjust to stop a one-dimensional offense. Seems Frazier tweaked his play-calling way too late in the game and regardless our defensive line just got physically outmatched and controlled. 
 

I would like a game breaking/controlling DT to put alongside Oliver. 

 

But they did stop the run.  They only had 2 drives over 5 plays long the whole game.  To expect more than that is unreasonable.  We gave up one TD on the day, and outside that one TD we held the run game in check almost the entire game.  

 

So OP is right, its inaccurate to say we couldn't stop the run when we stopped the run all game outside one big one.   If they passed the ball 50 times and only gained 225 yards passing with one lone long TD play, literally no one would be saying we couldn't stop the pass.  But they run nearly 50 times and gain 222 yards rushing with one fluke TD and now we cant stop the run?  

 

Makes no sense.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

First off, everyone needs to stop about the 222 yards rushing...If a team rushes that many times and throws just 3 times, guess what, the rushing yard total is going to seem high.  

 

End of the day, we gave up less than 250 yards on the day, forced 6 punts and only allowed 2 drives over 5 plays.  Thats a good defensive effort.  To fault the D here and point at something like "total rush yards" in a game they threw 3 times is just bad analysis.  

Okay so were good with our rushing defense then. Thanks for the brilliant overly aggressive analysis.

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But they did stop the run.  They only had 2 drives over 5 plays long the whole game.  To expect more than that is unreasonable.  We gave up one TD on the day, and outside that one TD we held the run game in check almost the entire game.  

 

So OP is right, its inaccurate to say we couldn't stop the run when we stopped the run all game outside one big one.   If they passed the ball 50 times and only gained 225 yards passing with one lone long TD play, literally no one would be saying we couldn't stop the pass.  But they run nearly 50 times and gain 222 yards rushing with one fluke TD and now we cant stop the run?  

 

Makes no sense.

Did the 69 yard run count or what?

[BRH]

The 64-yard TD was a fluke. One play.  ***** happens.

 

The real killer was the 14-play FG drive, 11 of whose plays occurred into the wind when we absolutely knew they weren't throwing the ball.  Don't act like that wasn't all on the D or like it didn't make a difference in the game.

[BillsFanSD]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Anyone blaming the defense in any way for that game has zero idea what they are talking about. 

I can point to 222 reasons for why this is mistaken.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But they did stop the run.  They only had 2 drives over 5 plays long the whole game.  To expect more than that is unreasonable.  We gave up one TD on the day, and outside that one TD we held the run game in check almost the entire game.  

 

So OP is right, its inaccurate to say we couldn't stop the run when we stopped the run all game outside one big one.   If they passed the ball 50 times and only gained 225 yards passing with one lone long TD play, literally no one would be saying we couldn't stop the pass.  But they run nearly 50 times and gain 222 yards rushing with one fluke TD and now we cant stop the run?  

 

Makes no sense.

You kidding right