GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: It is the opposite of saying always punt from midfield. The analytics and averages are showing it's a bad decision. If his average is under 25 and he is usually taking it from 2 yards deep, it's just a bad choice. And that is before factoring in the fumbles and penalties. I'm sorry but I am with Hapless - this is flawed analysis. If he is averaging less than a yard less than the automatic it is well worth the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I suppose your right. Can’t imagine any team uses as many roster spots on Special Teams-only players as Bills, so waste not to try to take advantage of that. More teams than you think. Let me give you some names - Andrew Adams, Cam Gill, Pat O'Connor..... core special teamers on the Superbowl Champion Tampa Bay Buccs last year. Guys who were on the roster for their ability to play special teams. Every team has core special teamers and every single fan base would rather cut those guys to sign backups who might offer 5% more on their side of the ball but will almost never get on the field. And NFL teams will always prioritise backup spots on guys who do get on the field because they are good special teams players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I'm sorry but I am with Hapless - this is flawed analysis. If he is averaging less than a yard less than the automatic it is well worth the risk. So you like the field positions of say 25, 38, 10 over 25, 25, 25. I don't. When we're inside the 15 there is a different kind of playcalling and feel to the possesion. And the real figure used should be drive start for the return, not the yardage. That way useless yardage from the end zone would not be included, and the penalties assessed would be included in the calculation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said: So you like the field positions of say 25, 38, 10 over 25, 25, 25. I don't. When we're inside the 15 there is a different kind of playcalling and feel to the possesion. And the real figure used should be drive start for the return, not the yardage. That way useless yardage from the end zone would not be included, and the penalties assessed would be included in the calculation. Yea, as I said. You wanna play it safe. With a Tyrod Taylor offense I'd be right there with you. With an offense that can move the ball and score I'm less concerned about the odd drive start from the 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj-m-XZqcD0AhX2QzABHe6GD5AQFnoECAIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fthecommutesports.com%2F2020%2F10%2F27%2Fnfl-starting-field-position%2F&usg=AOvVaw1BOEs8WNFlTbcAOnIuT1x_ There is room for you both to be right. This study from last year suggests the Bills are one of the best teams at returns of both Kickoffs and Punts and this years data fall right in line as one again they are near the top in both kick returns yards average and punt return yard average. They suggest the Bills should be returning every kick when given a chance, but that was with Roberts when he was safe. There is also truth in that both Stevenson and McKenzie have shown difficulty with returns and taking the safe start at the 25 on kickoffs would actually be best. The difference is minor, but early in the season the energy from a big kick got the Bills some early momentum and at times later the mistakes have worked to kill momentum- so it is a mixed bag. What I find interesting is Stevenson to me seems very comfortable with Kick-off return duties, but less comfortable with punt returns (although explosive- he seems much less comfortable making the catch). McKenzie is the opposite- he seems much more comfortable in the punt return role, but seems very uncomfortable fielding kick-offs. A combination would be best, but you cannot justify the needed position. So at this very moment - I have no issue with the deciding to return a kickoff or not - the average difference is not worthy of the discussion. The pluses and minuses of touchbacks versus returns has played out in multiple games - some good - some bad. Just let it go - either way - it is what it is and plays out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea, as I said. You wanna play it safe. With a Tyrod Taylor offense I'd be right there with you. With an offense that can move the ball and score I'm less concerned about the odd drive start from the 10. Wow, I'm polar opposite. With Tyrod, I would be willing to take the risk of the return. Roberts/McKenzie are better, and the risk of getting something is then worth it IMO. With Josh/Daboll, I don't want them constrained by bad field position (see playoff game vs Indy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: So you like the field positions of say 25, 38, 10 over 25, 25, 25. I don't. When we're inside the 15 there is a different kind of playcalling and feel to the possesion. And the real figure used should be drive start for the return, not the yardage. That way useless yardage from the end zone would not be included, and the penalties assessed would be included in the calculation. As you said - there is a different mindset inside the 15, but the same gets said for the odd start outside the 35. It is like the change once a team gets their first - first down on a drive. Don’t just look at the negative side - with your example there is a positive side also. Both should be considered. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 What does this mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 43 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said: What does this mean? That there is going to be a remade Happy Days, only with black characters, and he's going ghe be The Fonz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 On 11/26/2021 at 11:07 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't think McDermott sees it that way, especially on a kickoff. I think he sees it "you have one job - end the play with the football in your hands" Where are these reports? My understanding is that a player on IR is not allowed to start practicing with the team until he is "activated for return from IR". Which happened for Stevenson on this Tuesday, which would kind of preclude "a while". But there may be fine points to the rule of which I'm unaware. Thanks I think what you are saying is correct if I read you right. Once a player begins to practice they start the 21 day clock. He has to be activated in that 21 days or he is gone for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Arkady Renko said: What does this mean? Yeah, who has Instagram and can clue us? @Mango? I can see the post without an Instagram account but can't read the replies 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 (edited) On 11/29/2021 at 7:22 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: That's a big "if" Overall, kickers have a TB% of 58% this year in the NFL. We have given up 14 FG and 20 TD so 34 kickoffs. That would imply 19 returns that were TB We have 23 returns. Someone somewhere probably has stats, but that would suggest that McKenzie has returned something like 8 kicks that could have gone for TBs, and 15 that would likely have gone for less than 25 yds without a return. Be nice if good stats on this were easier to find. I think that's a flawed analysis, ESPECIALLY after factoring in the block-in-the-back penalties. I can't find a source of how many we've actually gotten, but it seems like "too many" to me. There was actually more than 34 kickoffs. You forgot the first or second half opening kickoffs. I went through all the game logs and recorded 40 kickoffs plus 2 Stevenson kickoffs against NO. The ball was kicked into the end zone 21 times of those 40 kicks. The rest were kicked outside the endzone and had to be returned. Of the 21 kicks into the endzone There were 17 touchbacks and McKenzie brought the ball out 4 times. All 4 of those times were 2 yards or less deep into the endzone. Both the NO kicks were touchbacks. I may have missed a couple kickoffs but I think the point is clear. Edited December 1, 2021 by Scott7975 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 11 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It isn't about being excited. It's about if the average is almost the same as just taking a touchback then the risk is small for the potential gain. Yes, the mistakes when they come hurt. But it is just a safety first, no risk, approach. It is akin to saying always punt at midfield on 4th down. I believe our friend her was responding to my retort about getting excited over a return when you can see the gear shift to next speed occurs. for me it is. Safety be darned. Some folks are more risk adverse than others and thats okay. get rid of the penalties and NEVER drop the ball. Make the best decision you can make while the ball is in the air and the blocking is taking shape Make sure Josh gets the ball next lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: There was actually more than 34 kickoffs. You forgot the first or second half opening kickoffs. I went through all the game logs and recorded 40 kickoffs plus 2 Stevenson kickoffs against NO. The ball was kicked into the end zone 21 times of those 40 kicks. The rest were kicked outside the endzone and had to be returned. Of the 21 kicks into the endzone There were 17 touchbacks and McKenzie brought the ball out 4 times. All 4 of those times were 2 yards or less deep into the endzone. Both the NO kicks were touchbacks. I may have missed a couple kickoffs but I think the point is clear. Forgot to add... of the 4 times he brought it out 28 yardline Returned for TD but a penalty so the drive started at the 18 yardline where Allen proceeded to go all the way to the Titans 1 yardline (we all know what happened) 22 yardline 25 yardline This mythical starting at the 15 yardline instead of the 25 just doesnt exist. Yeah, I am telling McK to take the ball out. Edited December 1, 2021 by Scott7975 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yeah, who has Instagram and can clue us? @Mango? I can see the post without an Instagram account but can't read the replies The replies range from: “he’s just messing around” to “he’s injured” to “it was great having you. Best of luck.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mango said: The replies range from: “he’s just messing around” to “he’s injured” to “it was great having you. Best of luck.” So basically no clue what he means 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Scott7975 said: Forgot to add... of the 4 times he brought it out 28 yardline Returned for TD but a penalty so the drive started at the 18 yardline where Allen proceeded to go all the way to the Titans 1 yardline (we all know what happened) 22 yardline 25 yardline This mythical starting at the 15 yardline instead of the 25 just doesnt exist. Yeah, I am telling McK to take the ball out. Your second one says we started at the 18, so you're really going to go with "this mythical starting at the 15 doesn't exist"? Wow. You can tell McKenzie to take it out all you want, I'm leaning towards hoping McDermott plays the kid. This is a great opportunity to integrate another youngster for the long term growth of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Arkady Renko said: What does this mean? Seeing that it’s liked by Yeldon, it probably means it hurts to be sitting behind somebody who’s not better than me 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 1, 2021 Author Share Posted December 1, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yeah, who has Instagram and can clue us? @Mango? I can see the post without an Instagram account but can't read the replies I can see it. It’s just a bunch a fan responses asking what happened. Moss, Rousseau, poyer and Gabe Davis “liked” the post Edited December 1, 2021 by YoloinOhio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltonWaddams Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 I love a nice vague social media post. Attention grabbing, but with a side of “idgaf”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 1, 2021 Author Share Posted December 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said: I love a nice vague social media post. Attention grabbing, but with a side of “idgaf”. He really should get on Facebook, with this drama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said: Your second one says we started at the 18, so you're really going to go with "this mythical starting at the 15 doesn't exist"? Wow. You can tell McKenzie to take it out all you want, I'm leaning towards hoping McDermott plays the kid. This is a great opportunity to integrate another youngster for the long term growth of the team. Yes The kid will be instructed to take it out from 2 yards or less as well. That is how returners are coached. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 1, 2021 Author Share Posted December 1, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I have a feeling since he is wearing blue over white and I see rain drops...this is right before God caused his fumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 6, 2021 Author Share Posted December 6, 2021 Again! Stevenson too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Again! Stevenson too. So… who’s going to be returning kicks? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterStrategist Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 minute ago, stevestojan said: So… who’s going to be returning kicks? Breida or Jones, is my guess, for kick return. Micah for punts, or they might not attempt to catch anything unless it's a line drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 All out punt blocks every punt? Fielding them might be riskier then just letting then roll. So interesting potentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 53 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: All out punt blocks every punt? Fielding them might be riskier then just letting then roll. So interesting potentially. That only goes one way. Punts will go a mile travelling with this wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 26, 2021 Author Share Posted December 26, 2021 I love you lil Dirty! Next man up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Isiah, I'll send you nudes of my GF. I hope you like Korean women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 McD better never *****in' bench him again, idiot. Dude needs to be on the field ahead of Sanders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iverwig Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Never should have been benched. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 26, 2021 Author Share Posted December 26, 2021 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 (edited) heck yeah he is #postpatsgamecelebration wooooooooooooooooot!~!~!~!!!!!!! Victory SUNDAY!!!~ Thank you Buffalo Bills!!!!!!!!! m Edited December 26, 2021 by muppy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Williams Available Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 I love it as long as McD doesn’t get credit for it blah something about accountability. If it wasn’t for WRs being out his stubborn a$$ would still have him on the bench. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Paid off...? hahaaaaa yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: People are going to rip him for not playing him I get it. But like I said...maybe that was a turning point for his career. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 The Bills are just more dynamic as an offensive unit when he is on the field 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 McKenzie might have earned a contract extension today…. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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