The Edmunds Report - Week 3, WTF's v. Bills, 09/26/21

[TBBills]

The Bills will be drafting his replacement next year.

 

It's not hate it's him being bad at his job.

Edited September 28, 2021 by TBBills

[unbillievable]

If the offense can use one player to block one defensive player, it's a win for the offense.

 

We can see that Edmunds isn't a liability; he's just not a playmaker.  Is not being bad now considered a top 5 player? MLB and RB are the two easiest positions to find competent players in the draft. If a team uses a 1st round pick on them, they better be special. Maybe they should have tried him at Edge rusher first.

 

He's worth keeping, but he should not get more money than Milano.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by unbillievable

[First Round Bust]

excellent analysis, safe to say his pass coverage skills are good, his run coverage is not, based on quick decisions and OL hunting him down to be blocked.  A better OLB than MLB perhaps is the question ?

[CorkScrewHill]

8 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

On that QB TD run to the right Edmunds was still bizarrely GIVING GROUND in the endzone (adhering to his pass coverage responsibility like a good boy) while Heinecke was already advancing the ball upfield toward the right pylon. It was crazy how late he finally planted a damned foot in the ground and moved toward the actual threat. 

 

Does anyone else recall that slow-mo replay? I try to be objective on TE, but that play was just mystifying. WTF was he doing staying back WELL after the QB broke the line of scrimmage? I cannot reconcile that play, and I'm afraid it's representative of his passive play in general. 

A running QB puts the defensive player in a dilemma. I thought the same thing when all of the WFT defenders were still guarding their man as Josh waltzed in the end zone.  The Heineke one he was at least hauling. Josh knew he had it and it was almost comical how he took that into the end zone.

 

Big name players make it to the Pro Bowl when it is no longer deserved. Guys without big names that toil in Buffalo .. only if it is at least somewhat deserved. I am trusting the football people who put him in that game.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, timekills17 said:

 

I dislike this thought process more than I dislike the potential for "overpaying" Edmunds.

 

Every time I here this I think "No one who understands the NFL and salary caps is concerned about overpaying a player because it will cost *them*. It's because it means money isn't available to pay OTHER BETTER/DESERVING players."

 

It has *nothing* do to with whose money it is. This is like people saying "The owner is rich; he can afford to pay X$ to some player."

That has absolutely zero to do with. All owners are rich, and all have the exact same amount of money they MUST spend and CAN spend - and no more than that.

 

If we pay more to Edmunds than he's actually "worth" then we have less money UNDER THE CAP to spend on other players. Which might mean we miss out on acquiring or keeping another player a firm market value who can help the team win.

 

Just stop with the discussion about whose money is being spent. The discussion is what % of the total amount a team IS ALLOWED to spend makes sense.

Are you speaking about paying another Middle linebacker and if so who is on your mind

 

If you’re talking about keeping another player then I understand that thought process to Taron Johnson has been creeping into my mind lately

 

 

[stosh64]

Considering the Bills are ranked 4th in passing and run D so far, and I expect them to get better with the rooks and 2nd years stepping up, what they are doing seems to be working.

It's not broke and doesn't need fixing.

TE will get better too.

 

Go BILLS!!

 

ETA:  With our O finally getting in gear and the D playing like it is, TE is just fine. The only thing I'm concerned about at this point are injuries...knock on wood...

Edited September 28, 2021 by stosh64

[uninja]

He's a good to above average, sometimes excellent, coverage linebacker. His ability to cover sideline to sideline and use his large frame to close distance in passing situations is extremely good. He's almost like a giant nickel corner or extremely large safety.

 

It's just his run support that holds him back. He over-pursues, takes bad angles and seems to misjudge his closing distance relative to that of the runner or receiver trying to get the edge.

 

 

[unbillievable]

9 minutes ago, uninja said:

He's a good to above average, sometimes excellent, coverage linebacker. His ability to cover sideline to sideline and use his large frame to close distance in passing situations is extremely good. He's almost like a giant nickel corner or extremely large safety.

 

It's just his run support that holds him back. He over-pursues, takes bad angles and seems to misjudge his closing distance relative to that of the runner or receiver trying to get the edge.

 

It would be nice if we can see Edmunds doing well against TightEnds in coverage. Kansas City, New England, and Tampa Bay will test him.

 

 

[Beast]

2 hours ago, TBBills said:

The Bills will be drafting his replacement next year.

 

It's not hate it's him being bad at his job.

 

Yeah, he's so bad McDermott and Beane picked up an expensive option on him.

 

But you know best!

 

[DeltaDigital]

Cool, wonder what the + - Is on milano.... you know, a linebacker with actual instinct? 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

Edmunds is generally solid in coverage, but people don't usually see that on the broadcast.

 

It's just a bunch of fans yelling for no reason. Is Edmunds an elite player? No. Does he suck? No. He makes some plays, he misses some plays, he cleans up tackles, and he is decent in coverage.

 

He'll have to step up his game if he wants a good 2nd contract.

Every time he misses a play he seems to be perfectly in the middle of the TV broadcast with nobody else around which doesn't help hahaha maybe he's camera shy.  So I think a lot of us don't give him the benefit of the doubt and we're assuming he's bad-average when we don't notice him.

[brianthomas]

Edmunds obviously has the prototypical body frame that you'd want in a MLB. Its just that he has the instincts of a potato.

Some call it drive, others aggressiveness. Perhaps its all the above.

 

Milano is having a great season so far. You see him breaking on the play before the ball even gets there. He's playing with instinct.

Edmunds you rarely (if ever) see him doing that. And if anything he seems to be in no mans land half the time in coverage. Moving 1 way, only to have to pivot & go the other where the play is going. He doesnt seem to be doing much of anything but taking up space out there.  Which perhaps is what he's being asked to do. But i wish he had more aggressiveness. More of an instinct out there. Man wouldn't he be fun to watch in this defense if that were the case.

[starrymessenger]

10 hours ago, qwksilver said:

I'll be interested to see what TE's score is when used as a blitzer/rusher. 

My guess is low. Don't recall him doing much to pressure the QB either off the edge or up the middle. 

[RiotAct]

12 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Keep this up because all i see/notice is the bad. It is nice to read an objective review.

yup.  A lot of people are the same way, especially with most defensive positions. (as well as OL).

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, brianthomas said:

Edmunds obviously has the prototypical body frame that you'd want in a MLB. Its just that he has the instincts of a potato.

Some call it drive, others aggressiveness. Perhaps its all the above.

 

Milano is having a great season so far. You see him breaking on the play before the ball even gets there. He's playing with instinct.

Edmunds you rarely (if ever) see him doing that. And if anything he seems to be in no mans land half the time in coverage. Moving 1 way, only to have to pivot & go the other where the play is going. He doesnt seem to be doing much of anything but taking up space out there.  Which perhaps is what he's being asked to do. But i wish he had more aggressiveness. More of an instinct out there. Man wouldn't he be fun to watch in this defense if that were the case.

 

I've seen the "no man's land" comment twice now.  He's not dropping into no man's land.  Against WTF, he drew constant coverage against Logan Thomas.  Thomas had 4 receptions for 42 yards, one of which was completed against TE (9 yards, TE made the tackle to force 4th down).  TE does his job in coverage.  He is not hurting the Bills at all there.  As far as "instinct", that's hard to quantify.  TE is often not at the point of attack on running plays.  One thing I noticed but did not mention is how many times TE did not line up over center.  More often, he was on the left side of the D.  Believe it or don't, Cookie lined up over center more than TE did.  I will keep better track of that in the next Edmunds Report.

[Alphadawg7]

13 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Since Edmunds is still getting so much hate, I'm going to do this weekly.  The PIT game convinced me that much of the Edmunds hate is undeserved, but I want to see if I'm missing anything.  I'll use the same point system -1, 0, +1, and keep a running total.  I'll ignore plays where he's not involved and only look at coverage if he's onscreen (I don't have the All-22).  I'll also flag plays for the haterz so they can skip the rest.  Let's go to the tape.

 

 

Excellent work, and pretty much spot on with what the rest of us non-haters have been saying about his play.  Not the best in the NFL at his position, but pretty close to top 10, and probably top 10 still,  and the Bills can do a lot worse than Tremaine.

ONE NOTE on your analysis:  Maybe dont use "TE" to abbreviate his name as it makes it confusing considering there are also a lot of references to Tight Ends where you are also using the same "TE" to identify them given he is frequently covering tight ends in the passing game as well.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Freddie's Dead]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Excellent work, and pretty much spot on with what the rest of us non-haters have been saying about his play.  Not the best in the NFL at his position, but pretty close and probably top 10 still and the Bills can do a lot worse than Tremaine.

ONE NOTE on your analysis:  Maybe dont use "TE" to abbreviate his name as it makes it confusing considering there are also a lot of references to Tight Ends where you are also using the same "TE" to identify them given he is frequently covering tight ends in the passing game as well.  

 

Thanks Dawg.  I reread the report, and I see I used TE at the bottom for tight end.  Sorry, really tried to avoid that.  How about TED?  Sucks for me, it's an extra character (I take all the KB shortcuts I can).

Edited September 28, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Excellent work, and pretty much spot on with what the rest of us non-haters have been saying about his play.  Not the best in the NFL at his position, but pretty close and probably top 10 still and the Bills can do a lot worse than Tremaine.

ONE NOTE on your analysis:  Maybe dont use "TE" to abbreviate his name as it makes it confusing considering there are also a lot of references to Tight Ends where you are also using the same "TE" to identify them given he is frequently covering tight ends in the passing game as well.  

Agreed.  Instead, he should use POC, short for piece of crap.  
 

kidding.  Just throwing fuel on the 🔥 

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Thanks Dawg.  I reread the report, and I see I used TE at the bottom for tight end.  Sorry, really tried to avoid that.  How about TED?  Sucks for me, it's an extra character (I take all the KB shortcuts I can).

 

Maybe use TR or ED for him so its not confused with Tight Ends.  Not a big deal, just would eliminate any confusion if you are referencing him or a TE.  Just highlight that at the top of your post that Tremaine Edmunds will be abbreviated as what ever abbreviation you choose.  Personally I think either of those work just fine.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Maybe use TR or ED for him so its not confused with Tight Ends.  Not a big deal, just would eliminate any confusion if you are referencing him or a TE.  Just highlight that at the top of your post that Tremaine Edmunds will be abbreviated as what ever abbreviation you choose.  Personally I think either of those work just fine.

 

ED means Edge to me in pre-draft speak and there are still some who'd rather TE played on the ED 😆

[Freddie's Dead]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

ED means Edge to me in pre-draft speak and there are still some who'd rather TE played on the ED 😆

 

I decline to use ED, since that is also a medical condition.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[thenorthremembers]

13 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

You obviously put a lot of time into this and for that it’s appreciated. It is a subjective grading system, so some of your +1 plays and other assessments could definitely be argued - “TE drops into coverage, Heinicke throws beyond the LOS +1” “TE called for holding, but I didnt see it 0.” There are others like this, but I chose two as an example.
The fact remains, Edmund’s game changing, impact plays are few and far between. His mistakes are magnified because he routinely fails to make splash plays and his missteps stand out like a flashlight in a dark room. He’s not a “terrible” player, but he’s not a difference-maker either, I’d move on after the season for any dollar amount over $10M/yr.

Ideally I’d love to see what he would fetch in a trade.

Perfect summary of the situation.   His 5th year option is a little over 12 million.  As such, Id love to see them trade him this offseason. 

[Freddie's Dead]

3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Perfect summary of the situation.   His 5th year option is a little over 12 million.  As such, Id love to see them trade him this offseason. 

 

Be careful what you wish for.  We ran London Fletcher outta town in much the same manner.  How'd that work out for us?  DiGiorgio, Posluszny, Kelvin Sheppard, DirtyKiko, Preston Brown (another guy we ran outta town like we want to run 49 outta town) followed.  You want to start the MLB merry-go-round all over again?

[TBBills]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

 

Yeah, he's so bad McDermott and Beane picked up an expensive option on him.

 

But you know best!

 

Nobody's perfect... Not like they never whiffed on a call.

You are all so sensitive, it's funny. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by TBBills

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

6 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Well I don’t disagree - the question becomes then are you willing to play with Milano and Klein then as your 2 LBs.  Most likely - since Edmunds is routinely considered a top 5-10 LB you are not finding a replacement at that level - especially with knowledge of this defense and the ability to call plays and cover.

 

So I guess the biggest question is are you willing to completely change Milano’s role from the attacking LB to a coverage LB and have a Klein level LB starting opposite?  Since Klein (and many other LBs in this league) can’t cover as well as Edmunds - what impact does that have?

 

I think people would be surprised at how much worse this defense becomes with a below average replacement in for Edmunds.  We saw last year when Milano and Edmunds were hurt - exactly how well the 2 compliment each other and how Klein could play the attacking role, but could not play the coverage role.  
 

I do think you could play someone else in that spot that can get you more “splash plays” - I just think those plays then come out of the things Milano currently does because Milano would switch to the coverage and contain LB.

 

 

Next week seems like a good chance to try it. 

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, TBBills said:

The Bills will be drafting his replacement next year.

 

It's not hate it's him being bad at his job.

 

I will bet you any amount of money that no GM in the NFL would label our 2 time Pro Bowl LB "Bad at his job".   The only people here bad at their job are the people claiming in this thread and the other Edmunds thread that he is terrible, bad at his job, one of the worst in the NFL, etc.  

 

Edmunds is not the best MLB in football, but he is far from the worst and far from being "bad".  And our D is playing at the top of the NFL right now while he is the starting MLB...but some of you talk like our Defense isn't any good and he is the reason.  

 

The amount of egregious over exaggeration is comical at this point about Edmunds.  I have a feeling this is mostly the same crowd that has been mistakenly complaining about Star also not being any good and needing to be cut because they really don't know how to evaluate him properly.  

 

Its like the Edmunds hater crowd sees a play or two a game they feel like he should have made a better decision on or a better play and then decide that represents 100% of his play while they completely ignore all the other positive things he has done.  To see evidence of that, just go to the 20+ page Edmunds thread where they are trying to disregard any positive play and just refocus on some other play they didn't like from him and paint that as the only true representation of him.  

[TBBills]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I will bet you any amount of money that no GM in the NFL would label our 2 time Pro Bowl LB "Bad at his job".   The only people here bad at their job are the people claiming in this thread and the other Edmunds thread that he is terrible, bad at his job, one of the worst in the NFL, etc.  

 

Edmunds is not the best MLB in football, but he is far from the worst and far from being "bad".  And our D is playing at the top of the NFL right now while he is the starting MLB...but some of you talk like our Defense isn't any good and he is the reason.  

 

The amount of egregious over exaggeration is comical at this point about Edmunds.  I have a feeling this is mostly the same crowd that has been mistakenly complaining about Star also not being any good and needing to be cut because they really don't know how to evaluate him properly.  

 

Its like the Edmunds hater crowd sees a play or two a game they feel like he should have made a better decision on or a better play and then decide that represents 100% of his play while they completely ignore all the other positive things he has done.  To see evidence of that, just go to the 20+ page Edmunds thread where they are trying to disregard any positive play and just refocus on some other play they didn't like from him and paint that as the only true representation of him.  

Omg look at your post all you do is pretend anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "hater" such a childish way to act.

 

It's why people don't bother in this forum b.c of unbearable people like you who can't handle criticism.

Edited September 28, 2021 by TBBills

[Freddie's Dead]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I will bet you any amount of money that no GM in the NFL would label our 2 time Pro Bowl LB "Bad at his job".   The only people here bad at their job are the people claiming in this thread and the other Edmunds thread that he is terrible, bad at his job, one of the worst in the NFL, etc.  

 

Edmunds is not the best MLB in football, but he is far from the worst and far from being "bad".  And our D is playing at the top of the NFL right now while he is the starting MLB...but some of you talk like our Defense isn't any good and he is the reason.  

 

The amount of egregious over exaggeration is comical at this point about Edmunds.  I have a feeling this is mostly the same crowd that has been mistakenly complaining about Star also not being any good and needing to be cut because they really don't know how to evaluate him properly.  

 

Its like the Edmunds hater crowd sees a play or two a game they feel like he should have made a better decision on or a better play and then decide that represents 100% of his play while they completely ignore all the other positive things he has done.  To see evidence of that, just go to the 20+ page Edmunds thread where they are trying to disregard any positive play and just refocus on some other play they didn't like from him and paint that as the only true representation of him.  

 

They yearn for the days of John "It's not delivery, it's" DiGiorgio....  This just reminds me so much of the bull#### that got London Fletcher shipped out.  I freely admit, I was an Edmunds hater, but watching the tape makes it clear what he does well and what he doesn't.  He's a decent MLB, but he's not a run-stuffing thumper.  Maybe we should ask which NFL MLB you'd swap him for?

Edited September 28, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Omg look at your post all you do is pretend anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "hater" such a childish way to act.

 

It's why people don't bother in this forum b.c of unbearable people like you who can't handle criticism.

 

LMAO...this from someone saying Edmunds is "bad at his job" and disregarding any value our 2 time pro bowl MLB who is the captain of our defense has to our team.  You didnt even provide any criticism, you just made a utterly ridiculous statement of flat out saying he is bad at his job.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[YattaOkasan]

19 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Omg look at your post all you do is pretend anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "hater" such a childish way to act.

 

It's why people don't bother in this forum b.c of unbearable people like you who can't handle criticism.

Youre not really debating the merits of your point though. 

 

He's been to pro bowls (clearly not by fan vote), 3x captain, voted in top 10 at position.  these all counter you position of "bad."  How do you respond to these points (@alphadawg7 is probably frustrated because you seem to ignore them)? Do you have evidence to support your position of why hes bad?  Do you have replacements that you seemed sure the bills would select in the draft?  Please add value to the convo.

[thenorthremembers]

27 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Be careful what you wish for.  We ran London Fletcher outta town in much the same manner.  How'd that work out for us?  DiGiorgio, Posluszny, Kelvin Sheppard, DirtyKiko, Preston Brown (another guy we ran outta town like we want to run 49 outta town) followed.  You want to start the MLB merry-go-round all over again?

I'd say its a bit of hyperbole to say Fletcher was run out of town.  While he was here he was a very well respected member of the team.   It's also hyperbole to say Preston Brown was run out of town.  The fact is he just wasnt very good, and didnt fit in a defense that needed athletic linebackers.

 

Do I think Edmunds knows the defense well, yes I do.  I also think he is a great leader.    I just dont think he valuable enough on the field to garner 13 million dollars a year.

[TBBills]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

LMAO...this from someone saying Edmunds is "bad at his job" and disregarding any value our 2 time pro bowl MLB who is the captain of our defense has to our team.  You didnt even provide any criticism, you just made a utterly ridiculous statement of flat out saying he is bad at his job.  

All you have is pro bowl which is voted by fans... So sad. You have not provided anything but a fan vote. PFF has him outside the top 50. You see him whiff tackles in game all day Sunday.

[YattaOkasan]

8 minutes ago, TBBills said:

All you have is pro bowl which is voted by fans... So sad. You have not provided anything but a fan vote. PFF has him outside the top 50. You see him whiff tackles in game all day Sunday.

there are three votes for pro bowl.  coaches, players, fans.  he did not get in by the fans (see: this board as evidence). So thats providing player and coaches (not fans) as evidence.  I thought we didnt like PFF grades, but if thats how you lean then you must agree Tre White was the 19th best corner in 2019.

 

Missed tackle percentage is a problem but also a problem for the whole defense outside Levi Wallace.

 

Edit: his missed tackle percentage for 2020 was 9.4%.  This is just on the wrong side of average (still within 1 SD I assume), so more average than bad.  Again McD defenses here have been notoriously bad at tackling.

Edited September 28, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[Lv-Bills]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I will bet you any amount of money that no GM in the NFL would label our 2 time Pro Bowl LB "Bad at his job".   The only people here bad at their job are the people claiming in this thread and the other Edmunds thread that he is terrible, bad at his job, one of the worst in the NFL, etc.  

 

Edmunds is not the best MLB in football, but he is far from the worst and far from being "bad".  And our D is playing at the top of the NFL right now while he is the starting MLB...but some of you talk like our Defense isn't any good and he is the reason.  

 

The amount of egregious over exaggeration is comical at this point about Edmunds.  I have a feeling this is mostly the same crowd that has been mistakenly complaining about Star also not being any good and needing to be cut because they really don't know how to evaluate him properly.  

 

Its like the Edmunds hater crowd sees a play or two a game they feel like he should have made a better decision on or a better play and then decide that represents 100% of his play while they completely ignore all the other positive things he has done.  To see evidence of that, just go to the 20+ page Edmunds thread where they are trying to disregard any positive play and just refocus on some other play they didn't like from him and paint that as the only true representation of him.  

I agree with a lot of what is said here.  Except, we have no idea how good our defense is right now.  We've played Big Ben, Tua, Brissett, and Heinicke.  Next week is Davis Mills.  We will find out a lot about our defense when we play real teams......at KC and at Tennessee back to back.  

 

And after next week, what gets a bit frustrating, is when you have a physical specimen the size of Edmunds never really making physical, game changing plays or splash plays.  Everyone can throw all of the stupid stats at me as much as they want, but I want my high draft pick, that is naturally built like an un-earthly god, to make a few physical splash plays a game and intimidate the opposing team and it's offense.   Edmunds looks like a  guy that should be able to single handedly neutralize Henry from Tennessee, but that is probably not going to happen. 

 

He doesn't do that.  He's a freakishly built specimen that is a finesse player thus far, and that just leaves a huge wanting for more by everyone.  That being said, he's nowhere near a bad football player.  He's also not nearly as good as his reputation right now either.

[NewEra]

42 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Be careful what you wish for.  We ran London Fletcher outta town in much the same manner.  How'd that work out for us?  DiGiorgio, Posluszny, Kelvin Sheppard, DirtyKiko, Preston Brown (another guy we ran outta town like we want to run 49 outta town) followed.  You want to start the MLB merry-go-round all over again?

Wanna start severely overpaying players again?  The best teams in the league get players on discounts, not 20-50% over value 

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I'd say its a bit of hyperbole to say Fletcher was run out of town.  While he was here he was a very well respected member of the team.   It's also hyperbole to say Preston Brown was run out of town.  The fact is he just wasnt very good, and didnt fit in a defense that needed athletic linebackers.

 

Do I think Edmunds knows the defense well, yes I do.  I also think he is a great leader.    I just dont think he valuable enough on the field to garner 13 million dollars a year.

 

Disagree.  I argued here all over the place how important and good Fletcher was and a LOT of people on the board said the same garbage over and over again just complaining that he makes the tackles too far down field and he sucks.  Then we all watched him go on to have a continued stellar career in Washington.  

 

Preston Brown was constantly trashed here too because he wasn't dynamic enough and couldn't play coverage to save his life.  Now I didn't disagree with the fact Preston wasn't very good in coverage and was better playing in the box, because that was true.  But people said he was terrible overall and over exaggerated to a degree there.  But, end of the day, Brown criticism were at least more fair as he was not very good in coverage and I felt we needed a rangier LB to man the middle too even though I never thought Brown was "terrible" as some said.  

 

14 minutes ago, TBBills said:

All you have is pro bowl which is voted by fans... So sad. You have not provided anything but a fan vote. PFF has him outside the top 50. You see him whiff tackles in game all day Sunday.

 

Really...go pull the plays up where he whiffed tackles all day every Sunday.  Funny, how a man who leads the team in tackles every year by a considerable margin somehow in your flawed view also whiffs on every tackle.  You literally have not only not provided any kind of actual analysis, but you are just spewing non factual non sense at the same time.  Then have the audactity to complain when somoene like myself calls out your baseless posts as if its unfair to you?  Geezus man, post some substance.  Criticism is all fair game, but you are providing nothing in that regard or any statements based in reality. 

 

Again, no one is claiming Edmunds is the best MLB in football, but we are disagreeing at your baseless and grossly over exaggerated nonsense is an accurate picture of what Emdunds is to this team.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Wanna start severely overpaying players again?  The best teams in the league get players on discounts, not 20-50% over value 

 

I totally respect you as a poster, so no disrespect here...but why are you hung up on this over pay thing in so many threads about Edmunds?  No one has over paid him, no one has offered him a contract.  Why are we jumping all over Edmunds about this before anything has even remotely been discussed?  I get the stance of being concerned he could get over paid, but its a bit premature to focus on that.

 

I heard the same panic about Milano, and then Beane brought him back on a great deal.  And now, all the people who were saying NOT to resign Milano are running around about how good he is and how much more important he is than Edmunds.  Not saying you did that, I don't remember your specific stance on Milano before he resigned, just others are.  

 

I think at this point, Beane has more than proved himself to be smart about contracts and has avoided over paying in both free agent signings and retaining his own players since arriving in Buffalo.  So I just think its way pre mature now to harp on Edmunds getting over paid by us when the probability of that happened based on Beanes well established track record is low.  

 

IMO, Beane is going to evaluate Edmunds play this year and next and then come to a conclusion if he still fits our defense and what his value is.  If Beane wants to retain him, and the value is close enough to what Edmunds and his team are willing to take to stay, a deal likely gets done.  If they are far apart, Beane wont hesitate to let him test the market or even walk like he did with Milano.  And more importantly, if Beane knows ahead of time he isnt going to resign him, I promise you this, Beane will absolutely trade him because he will have significant trade value on the open market and would fetch us a premium pick in the first 3 rounds depending on his level of play going into the trade.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Gugny]

15 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Since Edmunds is still getting so much hate, I'm going to do this weekly.  The PIT game convinced me that much of the Edmunds hate is undeserved, but I want to see if I'm missing anything.  I'll use the same point system -1, 0, +1, and keep a running total.  I'll ignore plays where he's not involved and only look at coverage if he's onscreen (I don't have the All-22).  I'll also flag plays for the haterz so they can skip the rest.  Let's go to the tape.

 

WTF 1st possession

1st and 10, WTF 21.  Run off RT, TE overruns the hole, blocked out (HATERZ PLAY), 9 yard gain (-1,-1)

3rd and 2, WTF 29.  McKissic comes out, throws a pick on TE, draws the OPI after first down by McLaurin (+1,0)

3rd and 12, WTF 19.  TE covers Logan Thomas in flat, makes tackle 1 yard short of first down (+1,+1)

 

WTF 2nd possession

3rd and 8, WTF 37.  TE blitzes, but peels off to cover RB in the flat, Muffler goes to Logan Thomas, fumble (+1,+2)

 

WTF 3rd possession

1st and 10, WTF 25.  TE blitzes, doesn't get there, 10 yard reception (0,+2)

1st and 10, WTF 35.  Run, TE blocked at point of attack, 4 yard gain (0,+2)

2nd and 6, WTF 39.  TE drops into coverage on the right, Muffler throws left, Poyer INT (0,+2)

 

WTF 4th possession

1st and 10, WTF 25.  TE calls a line shift, Gibson up the gut, stuffed by TE in the hole for 2 yards (+1,+3)

2nd and 8, WTF 27.  TE drops into coverage, screen to Gibson, TE blocked 11 yards downfield by 79 (HATERZ PLAY), turns to chase Gibson, runs into a pile of people (-1,+2) You know the rest, complete Bills D collapse, 73 yard TD

 

WTF 5th possession

1st and 10, BUF 24.  WR end around, TE blocked backward at point of attack, 7 yard gain (-1,+1)

2nd and 3, BUF 17.  Gibson sweep, TE pursues down line, Poyer 1 yard TFL (0,+1)

3rd and 4, BUF 18.  TE drops into short zone, covers 13, then slides to 17, Logan Thomas settles in seam behind TE, 15 yard completion (0,+1)

2nd and goal, BUF 3.  TE drops into coverage, Muffler takes off and beats everyone to the pylon (0,+1) 

 

WTF 6th possession

1st and 10, WTF 25.  TE drops into coverage, Muffler chased OB, 1 yard gain (0,+1)

2nd and 9, WTF 26.  TE drops into coverage, Gibson sweep TFL by Cookie (0,+1)

3rd and 10, WTF 25.  TE drops into coverage, Muffler complete to 13, TE WITH THE STUFF, laying the lumber on 13, 3 yards short of 1st down (+1,+2)

 

WTF 7th possession

1st and 10, WTF 25.  TE drops, McKissic run, TE blocked 5 yards downfield (HATERZ PLAY), 10 yards, 1st down (-1,+1)

1st and 10, WTF 35.  TE drops into coverage on Logan Thomas, Muffler throws it, Thomas tips it, Taron Johnson INT.  Did not see the holding call on TE, which was declined, looked like he had good coverage otherwise (0,+1)

1st and 10, WTF 41.  TE covers McKissic in the flat, Muffler throws to McKissic, 4 yard gain (0,+1)

 

1st half observations:

 

1.  Up and down half for TE.

2.  I flagged three HATERZ PLAYs that the haterz will use to talk down TE.

3.  Neither Rapelisberger nor Muffler threw much TE's way in coverage.  Those who keep saying that TE is terrible in coverage need to show us some tape, 'cause I'm not seeing it.

 

WTF 8th Possession

1st and 10, WTF 40.  TE on a delayed blitz, Muffler with 1st down completion to McLaurin (0,+1)

1st and 10, BUF 45.  McKissic run, TE sets edge, McK cuts inside, 5 yard run (0,+1)

2nd and 5, BUF 40.  Jet sweep, TE chases down the line, cleans up the 5 yard TFL with Hyde (+1,+2) 

3rd and 10, BUF 45.  TE in coverage on Logan Thomas, Muffler throws incomplete to WR left (+1,+3)

 

WTF 9th possession

1st and 15, WTF 5.  Gibson run, TE sheds a block, dives for the tackle but Gibson fakes him out his jockstrap (HATERZ PLAY, but can't lie, TE looked stupid on this one), 7 yard gain (-1,+2)

2nd and 8, WTF 12.  TE drops, Muffler goes past LOS and throws, illegal forward pass, loss of down (+1,+3)

3rd and 13, WTF 7.  TE drops, Muffler throws his way, and Hyde makes the pick.  It looks like TE baited him into the INT, something I saw another poster complain about, that TE never "baits" the QB.  Sure looks like he did there (+1,+4)

 

WTF 10th possession

1st and 10, WTF 25.  TE washed out a bit, 3 yard run gain (0,+4)

 

WTF 11th possession

1st and 10, WTF 1.  TE piles into line, 1 yard run (0,+4)

2nd and 9, WTF 2.  TE drops, Muffler does not throw his way yet again, dropped pass (0,+4)

3rd and 9, WTF 2.  TE drops, Muffler hits McKissic on safety valve, jukes TE for first down (HATERZ PLAY, but agree, TE needs to make that tackle short of the sticks) (-1,+3)

1st and 10, WTF 14.  TE drops, Muffler pulls it down and scrambles for 7 (0,+3)

2nd and 3, WTF 21.  Muffler with the play action, throws and TREMAINE EDMUNDS, WITH THE REJECTION! (in my best Marv Albert)  Great play by TE, Muffler caught the rejection, and TE cleaned up with a 1 yard TFL (+1,+4)

3rd and 5, WTF 20.  TE drops, Muffler pulls it down after finding no one open, and dives short of 1st down (0,+4)

4th and 1, WTF 24.  TE plugs up the middle, and Cookie cleans Muffler's clock (+1,+5)

 

WTF 12th possession

1st and 10, WTF 25.  Gibson off-tackle, TE sheds blocks and makes the tackle, 7 yard gain (HATERZ PLAY) (0,+5)

2nd and 3, WTF 32.  Gibson up the gut, TE sheds a block, completely whiffs on the tackle (HATERZ PLAY, but again, TE looked stupid on this one) 1st down run (-1,+4)

2nd and 13, WTF 35.  TE covers Logan again, makes tackle after completion to other receiver (0,+4)

1st and 10, BUF 44.  TE drops, Muffler throws to McLaurin, TE misses the tackle (-1,+3)

 

Conclusions

1.  Edmunds is a good MLB, not great.  The Bills will re-sign him if the price is right.

2.  His coverage skills are excellent.  They rarely throw his way, and when they do, he usually makes the tackle for minimal gain.

3.  The haterz had more fodder with today's game, because there were two plays I saw where TE looked completely stupid.  I didn't see that against PIT.

4.  I thought TE had a better game against the Squeelers than he did against the WTF's.  My grades for TE so far:

 

Squeelers - B+

WTF's - B- 

 

For the haterz, I get it, I was with you.  You see one or two plays that look bad, and you extrapolate to TE's entire body of work.  The best example is coverage skills.  I see the complaints, but outside a TE seam route against PIT, TE is solid in coverage.  If you have examples that prove that wrong, please post.  For now, I'm looking forward to seeing TE get better.  

 

This is amazing stuff.  Thanks for taking the time to write and share!

 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I totally respect you as a poster, so no disrespect here...but why are you hung up on this over pay thing in so many threads about Edmunds?  No one has over paid him, no one has offered him a contract.  Why are we jumping all over Edmunds about this before anything has even remotely been discussed?  I get the stance of being concerned he could get over paid, but its a bit premature to focus on that.

 

I heard the same panic about Milano, and then Beane brought him back on a great deal.  And now, all the people who were saying NOT to resign Milano are running around about how good he is and how much more important he is than Edmunds.  Not saying you did that, I don't remember your specific stance on Milano before he resigned, just others are.  

 

I think at this point, Beane has more than proved himself to be smart about contracts and has avoided over paying in both free agent signings and retaining his own players since arriving in Buffalo.  So I just think its way pre mature now to harp on Edmunds getting over paid by us when the probability of that happened based on Beanes well established track record is low.  

 

IMO, Beane is going to evaluate Edmunds play this year and next and then come to a conclusion if he still fits our defense and what his value is.  If Beane wants to retain him, and the value is close enough to what Edmunds and his team are willing to take to stay, a deal likely gets done.  If they are far apart, Beane wont hesitate to let him test the market or even walk like he did with Milano.  And more importantly, if Beane knows ahead of time he isnt going to resign him, I promise you this, Beane will absolutely trade him because he will have significant trade value on the open market and would fetch us a premium pick in the first 3 rounds depending on his level of play going into the trade.  

No offense taken.  I’m just discussing the future.  My frustration with him has nothing to do with his play this season.  Or even last.  I just see him as a lesser player than you do.  He’s not being overpaid right now, so I have no qualms about him.   
 

I think paying a MLB over 15M a year in general is nuts. Let alone a LB that isn’t worth nearly 15M. Maybe 10M imo.  Winning a super bowl is serious business to me.  As I’m sure it is to you.  I have my opinion that overpaying players, especially at lesser positions, can be a substantial burden to teams in the SB mix.   I don’t want his ridiculous contract to him to keep us from keeping/signing/ players at other positions.  
 

I thought the world of the kid when we drafted him.  I still think the world of his character.  Just not a fan of paying him what he’ll get on the open market.  It’s just part of the discussion revolving one of our “cornerstone” players. 

[Freddie's Dead]

47 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I'd say its a bit of hyperbole to say Fletcher was run out of town.  While he was here he was a very well respected member of the team.   It's also hyperbole to say Preston Brown was run out of town.  The fact is he just wasnt very good, and didnt fit in a defense that needed athletic linebackers.

 

Do I think Edmunds knows the defense well, yes I do.  I also think he is a great leader.    I just dont think he valuable enough on the field to garner 13 million dollars a year.

 

It's only you and me and we just disagree....

43 minutes ago, Lv-Bills said:

I agree with a lot of what is said here.  Except, we have no idea how good our defense is right now.  We've played Big Ben, Tua, Brissett, and Heinicke.  Next week is Davis Mills.  We will find out a lot about our defense when we play real teams......at KC and at Tennessee back to back.  

 

And after next week, what gets a bit frustrating, is when you have a physical specimen the size of Edmunds never really making physical, game changing plays or splash plays.  Everyone can throw all of the stupid stats at me as much as they want, but I want my high draft pick, that is naturally built like an un-earthly god, to make a few physical splash plays a game and intimidate the opposing team and it's offense.   Edmunds looks like a  guy that should be able to single handedly neutralize Henry from Tennessee, but that is probably not going to happen. 

 

He doesn't do that.  He's a freakishly built specimen that is a finesse player thus far, and that just leaves a huge wanting for more by everyone.  That being said, he's nowhere near a bad football player.  He's also not nearly as good as his reputation right now either.

 

I saw four plays that 49 made one-on-one.  He stopped Gibson in the hole for a 2 yard gain, he tackled Logan Thomas and #13 short of a first down, and he rejected Muffler's pass, that Muffler then caught, and 49 cleaned up with a 1 yard TFL.  How many one-on-one plays should he make a game?  Do you have a %age of snaps that would be acceptable?