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Watching the game again this game is all on Daboll


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  If you rewatch the game(if you can stomach  it) the Steelers only rushed 4 and did very little “Blitzburgh” stuff.  
  They where begging the Bills to take the ball out of Josh’s hands and run it the Bills didn’t….that’s 4 games in row now teams are telling you we are not letting Allen beat us.
  Daboll literally seems to have no confidence in our ability to run the ball or he truely is a one trick pony pass every down and pray we make the end zone coordinator.
  The truth is this is very fixable it was one game but it is a larger problem that the league has figured out Daboll and now he must adjust we shall see if he does.  

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To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  

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2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  If you rewatch the game(if you can stomach  it) the Steelers only rushed 4 and did very little “Blitzburgh” stuff.  
  They where begging the Bills to take the ball out of Josh’s hands and run it the Bills didn’t….that’s 4 games in row now teams are telling you we are not letting Allen beat us.
  Daboll literally seems to have no confidence in our ability to run the ball or he truely is a one trick pony pass every down and pray we make the end zone coordinator.
  The truth is this is very fixable it was one game but it is a larger problem that the league has figured out Daboll and now he must adjust we shall see if he does.  

Reminiscent of SB XXV. Parcells dared the Bills to give the ball to Thurman, but Marv figured it out too late. The problem with this team is that the offensive line is nothing compared with the SB team. Had Daboll decided to let Motor run, I’m afraid that Heyward STILL controls the line of scrimmage.

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2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  

McVay is 38-0 with a lead at the half. How is it that other coaches can be so competent with less talent than us? Is Geoff and Stafford better than Allen? I don’t think so, so it tells me coaching/play calling is the issue. 

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4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

McVay is 38-0 with a lead at the half. How is it that other coaches can be so competent with less talent than us? Is Geoff and Stafford better than Allen? I don’t think so, so it tells me coaching/play calling is the issue. 

Jesus we get it you want to put this on Beane and McD, you have been trying now for 2 threads.  Players need to execute better BOTTOMLINE

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I'd agree w/ the general premise.  I don't think it means he's suddenly a bad coach - but he sure did have an off day.

 

Beyond the lack of run game (and my goodness, do we need Moss), he was too cute too much of the time.  He has no problem calling Allen running plays - so why doesn't Allen do a sneak when it's 4th and 1?  The Pats did that EVERY time w/ Brady, and there was no stopping it.  Just get the 1st down.

 

4th & 10 was inexplicable - both the decision, and the actual call. 

 

It felt like a very discombobulated gameplan, and also like we just weren't taking it seriously.

 

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2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Jesus we get it you want to put this on Beane and McD, you have been trying now for 2 threads.  Players need to execute better BOTTOMLINE


If we need players to execute better all the time against top teams, then we don’t have elite talent. Simple. People say top 5 WRs this or top QB that. How can that be true if they can’t execute well? It’s either the talent isn’t being put in good positions to win tough games or we don’t have enough talent. Which is it? How is it that people like McVay are 38-0 while leading at the half with less talent than us? 

Edited by IronMaidenBills
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1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:


If we need players to execute better all the time against top teams, then we don’t have elite talent. Simple. People say top 5 WRs this or top QB that. How can that be true if they can’t execute well? It’s either the talent isn’t being put in good positions to win tough games or we don’t have enough talent. Which is it? How is it that people like McVay are 38-0 while leading at the half with less talent than us? 

 

If you are using McVay as a prime example of excellent coaching...go back and watch the Rams SB against NE from 2018 and study McVay's face for that game.  Completely outcoached.  It happens.  It was ONE FREAKING GAME MAN.  Step back from the ledge.  

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2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:


If we need players to execute better all the time against top teams, then we don’t have elite talent. Simple. People say top 5 WRs this or top QB that. How can that be true if they can’t execute well? It’s either the talent isn’t being put in good positions to win tough games or we don’t have enough talent. Which is it? How is it that people like McVay are 38-0 while leading at the half with less talent than us? 

 

IOL is a huge issue right now.  We've seen it evident in our last two games, going back to last year.   

 

That's the glaring talent issue I saw yesterday.

 

As far as making plays, welp..  People can talk about our WR group all they want, and with good reason, but Claypool, Johnson and Juju all made big boy catches in that second half while our guys got outmuscled multiple times by PIT DB's.  

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Just now, Johnnycage46 said:

 

If you are using McVay as a prime example of excellent coaching...go back and watch the Rams SB against NE from 2018 and study McVay's face for that game.  Completely outcoached.  It happens.  It was ONE FREAKING GAME MAN.  Step back from the ledge.  

It is one game, but I’m tired of giving McD and Beane easy passes. We couldn’t beat Tennessee or KC either. If they fail to do it again this year, then we need to seriously rethink strategy or talent evaluations, because Mahomes is going to be here for a while. 

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4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:


If we need players to execute better all the time against top teams, then we don’t have elite talent. Simple. People say top 5 WRs this or top QB that. How can that be true if they can’t execute well? It’s either the talent isn’t being put in good positions to win tough games or we don’t have enough talent. Which is it? How is it that people like McVay are 38-0 while leading at the half with less talent than us? 

ELITE talent doesnt matter if the elite Talent isnt executing.  Did you see Mahomes in the SB, elite talent, and got played.  EXECUTE that is what football is.  

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

It is one game, but I’m tired of giving McD and Beane easy passes. We couldn’t beat Tennessee or KC either. If they fail to do it again this year, then we need to seriously rethink strategy or talent evaluations, because Mahomes is going to be here for a while. 

Then stop with trying to get people to back door.  MAKE your point about Beane and McD and then discuss it.  

3 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

If you are using McVay as a prime example of excellent coaching...go back and watch the Rams SB against NE from 2018 and study McVay's face for that game.  Completely outcoached.  It happens.  It was ONE FREAKING GAME MAN.  Step back from the ledge.  

He is trying to get people to back door into McD and Beane are the problem.  Very simple tactic he has been using for awhile now.

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2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

ELITE talent doesnt matter if the elite Talent isnt executing.  Did you see Mahomes in the SB, elite talent, and got played.  EXECUTE that is what football is.  

Then stop with trying to get people to back door.  MAKE your point about Beane and McD and then discuss it.  

He is trying to get people to back door into McD and Beane are the problem.  Very simple tactic he has been using for awhile now.

No, I just want accountability. I want to win super bowls. I’m tired of being embarrassed as a Bills fan. I love my Bills and it hurts to know we haven’t sniffed a super bowl for various reasons. If we can’t beat KC and other elite teams then we need better talent or better talent evaluators or coaches. No more being happy to just have a team in Buffalo. 

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1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

No, I just want accountability. I want to win super bowls. I’m tired of being embarrassed as a Bills fan. I love my Bills and it hurts to know we haven’t sniffed a super bowl for various reasons. If we can’t beat KC and other elite teams then we need better talent or better talent evaluators or coaches. No more being happy to just have a team in Buffalo. 

Sorry week 1 of the 2021 NFL Season against a very good football team makes you embarrassed.  And did we lose to KC in 2021?

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Just now, MAJBobby said:

Sorry week 1 of the 2021 NFL Season against a very good football team makes you embarrassed.  And did we lose to KC in 2021?

Like I said, this year is a free pass to the team. I was expecting and still am in some ways a run to the super bowl. I will gladly let the season play out. But after this offseason, McD and Beane get no more free passes. Get and coach talent to beat elite teams. Allen now makes up a large percentage of our available money, so drafting is even more important now. Like others have said. I expect a big run on offensive linemen and a 2CB this next draft. 

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2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Like I said, this year is a free pass to the team. I was expecting and still am in some ways a run to the super bowl. I will gladly let the season play out. But after this offseason, McD and Beane get no more free passes. Get and coach talent to beat elite teams. Allen now makes up a large percentage of our available money, so drafting is even more important now. Like others have said. I expect a big run on offensive linemen and a 2CB this next draft. 

Can we name the Draft busts that Beane has drafted?  

 

I know I can point to alot of UFA mistakes (but protects the team with very good UFA contracts in case of those misses)

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Daboll reports to McD. The buck stops at the head coach.  This loss and the KC loss is all on McDermott.  He is the Achilles heel of this team.  I just feel this is Tampa Bay with Dungy repeating itself.  I will say, Mcd does a good job of rallying his team and righting the ship.  He gets the team to respond, that may be his best coaching quality.  Hopefully he will learn from this and force Daboll into more balance.    

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22 minutes ago, Success said:

I'd agree w/ the general premise.  I don't think it means he's suddenly a bad coach - but he sure did have an off day.

 

Beyond the lack of run game (and my goodness, do we need Moss), he was too cute too much of the time.  He has no problem calling Allen running plays - so why doesn't Allen do a sneak when it's 4th and 1?  The Pats did that EVERY time w/ Brady, and there was no stopping it.  Just get the 1st down.

 

4th & 10 was inexplicable - both the decision, and the actual call. 

 

It felt like a very discombobulated gameplan, and also like we just weren't taking it seriously.

 


The 4th down play is huge on risk and reward.  Not the time to call it with a struggling offense and offensive line getting out worked almost consistently.

 

Daboll must have seen something in Steelers tendencies to put that play in the game plan.  Still gotta feel the pulse of the team before you call that garbage.

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Just now, MAJBobby said:

Can we name the Draft busts that Beane has drafted?  

 

I know I can point to alot of UFA mistakes (but protects the team with very good UFA contracts in case of those misses)

I don’t know about draft busts per se, but the talent so far hasn’t been enough to beat elite teams in the playoffs. We are still  accumulating pieces. We likely need better linemen to win a super bowl. It’s just sad that we have to go to such great lengths while average Joe’s like Dilfer have a ring. 

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33 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  

Totally thought the in game adjustments were horrible.......where was the jet sweep from McKenzie in this game.....misdirection......screen pass?

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Daboll reports to McD. The buck stops at the head coach.  This loss and the KC loss is all on McDermott.  He is the Achilles heel of this team.  I just feel this is Tampa Bay with Dungy repeating itself.  I will say, Mcd does a good job of rallying his team and righting the ship.  He gets the team to respond, that may be his best coaching quality.  Hopefully he will learn from this and force Daboll into more balance.    

.......................

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Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

I don’t know about draft busts per se, but the talent so far hasn’t been enough to beat elite teams in the playoffs. We are still  accumulating pieces. We likely need better linemen to win a super bowl. It’s just sad that we have to go to such great lengths while average Joe’s like Dilfer have a ring. 

Really?  Did we not make a Run into the AFCCG last year, after a non playoff year before that?  Sorry you are not making any sense here.

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3 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Daboll reports to McD. The buck stops at the head coach.  This loss and the KC loss is all on McDermott.  He is the Achilles heel of this team.  I just feel this is Tampa Bay with Dungy repeating itself.  I will say, Mcd does a good job of rallying his team and righting the ship.  He gets the team to respond, that may be his best coaching quality.  Hopefully he will learn from this and force Daboll into more balance.    

100% all of this. Even if his elite talented players aren’t executing he needs to coach that up. There is no reason why elite talent can’t beat less talented rosters. We either have enough talent or we don’t. 

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7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Can we name the Draft busts that Beane has drafted?  

 

I know I can point to alot of UFA mistakes (but protects the team with very good UFA contracts in case of those misses)

Bust is an overstatement and I am always careful to use that word too soon.  

However I think it is more fair to say Oliver, Ford, Epenesa, and Edmunds have all underperformed their draft status.  Yes they are all starters and yes Edmunds for a brief 8 or 10 game stretch played like a ProBowler.  But for the most part these high draft picks have been at best average to poor.  I am still a big fan of Knox (more so than most on this board) but to be fair he has been at best inconsistent too.

He has had some really nice picks too in Gabe Davis and the jury is still out on Moss/Singletary.  

Edited by Ethan in Portland
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1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Really?  Did we not make a Run into the AFCCG last year, after a non playoff year before that?  Sorry you are not making any sense here.

That isn’t good enough. I don’t settle for participation trophies. 

If we can’t win a super bowl this year. We have to do further investigation into why. If it’s a lack of talent, then we need to draft and sign better players. If it’s play calling ills, the. McDermott needs to address it. No more excuses, just win a super bowl. 

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40 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  If you rewatch the game(if you can stomach  it) the Steelers only rushed 4 and did very little “Blitzburgh” stuff.  
  They where begging the Bills to take the ball out of Josh’s hands and run it the Bills didn’t….that’s 4 games in row now teams are telling you we are not letting Allen beat us.
  Daboll literally seems to have no confidence in our ability to run the ball or he truely is a one trick pony pass every down and pray we make the end zone coordinator.
  The truth is this is very fixable it was one game but it is a larger problem that the league has figured out Daboll and now he must adjust we shall see if he does.  

Dabol is the opposite of the Greg Roman. 

Draw up some run plays with and without a the fullback. Stop running JA17, teams are going to try and hurt him on those runs.

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2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Bust is an overstatement and I am always careful to use that word too soon.  

However I think it is more fair to say Oliver, Ford, Epenesa, and Edmunds have all underperformed their draft status.  Yes they are all starters and yes Edmunds for a brief 8 or 10 game stretch played like a ProBowler.  But for the most part these high draft picks have been at best average to poor.  I am still a big fan of Knox (more so than most on this board) but to be fair he has been at best inconsistent too.

He has had some really nice picks too in Gabe Davis and the jury is still out on Moss/Singletary.  

 

So a First round pick - Oliver who PLAYED GREAT yesterday.

Another 1st Edmunds - Also had a very good to great game

 

And a couple of 2nd rounders.  So yeah if I am hitting on 50% or greater on my draft picks (people should really stop caring about where they were picked) then I am doing my Job as a GM.  Example Edmunds and Milano (does it matter that one was a 1st and one was a 5th) when combined they outplay those two pick positions?

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3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

That isn’t good enough. I don’t settle for participation trophies. 

If we can’t win a super bowl this year. We have to do further investigation into why. If it’s a lack of talent, then we need to draft and sign better players. If it’s play calling ills, the. McDermott needs to address it. No more excuses, just win a super bowl. 

 

But, it was one game.  Only 2 teams have ever won every game in the regular season.  It was one game.  If yesterday's performance repeats for the next several games then it might be time to worry.  But, similarly, if we beat the stuffing out of the Steelers yesterday it wouldn't mean we were going to the Super Bowl.  Its just one game in a long (and now even longer) season.

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20 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

No, I just want accountability. I want to win super bowls. I’m tired of being embarrassed as a Bills fan. I love my Bills and it hurts to know we haven’t sniffed a super bowl for various reasons. If we can’t beat KC and other elite teams then we need better talent or better talent evaluators or coaches. No more being happy to just have a team in Buffalo. 

WTH are you talking about dude?  Have you been asleep at the wheel for the past three years?  This team is ascending (6-10, 10-6, 13-3) and just last year finally reached legit playoff contender status.  They have a young head coach and a very young QB.  Yes, yesterday sucked.  Daboll clearly designed an ineffective game plan and our offense never found their footing.  We were the better team.  We outgained them by 120 yards.  We just coached/played a dumb game at critical moments.  If we look like this at week 7, then we can start talking about the team having real problems.  As for now, I'll continue to contend that the future is insanely bright for this team.  

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3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

So a First round pick - Oliver who PLAYED GREAT yesterday.

Another 1st Edmunds - Also had a very good to great game

 

And a couple of 2nd rounders.  So yeah if I am hitting on 50% or greater on my draft picks (people should really stop caring about where they were picked) then I am doing my Job as a GM.  Example Edmunds and Milano (does it matter that one was a 1st and one was a 5th) when combined they outplay those two pick positions?

Edmunds played better but hardly great. He had one nice run stuff a batted pass and some other routine plays.  He was out of position on the deep pass to the TE in the middle of the field.  

Oliver played well and though I hated the pick at the time I have consistently said it takes time for a DT to develop.  He has to show more this year.  

Yes 50% is good.  Hardly makes Beane to be anything but an average to above average GM.  He's not he genus some on this board profess him to be.  

As for draft position - it matters somewhat.  They traded up to get Edmunds wasting picks in the process. They may have gotten similar production with a second round pick, paid him less, and kept the pick they traded away.  Getting value for Milano (not a Beane pick) and Davis is great.   

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36 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

It is one game, but I’m tired of giving McD and Beane easy passes. We couldn’t beat Tennessee or KC either. If they fail to do it again this year, then we need to seriously rethink strategy or talent evaluations, because Mahomes is going to be here for a while. 

 

We had beaten Tennessee three or four seasons in a row, including twice with McD. It was a Tuesday night game missing a couple starters like White on a wacky schedule in the rain. Titans just got slapped around by the Cards, so let's see how the season shakes out. 

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51 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  

FACTS!!!  Every time he ran the ball, I was screaming at the TV.  I don't want him getting hurt and he still doesn't control the ball well when running.  We have Motor, let him run more.  He was gashing their defense yesterday.

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1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  If you rewatch the game(if you can stomach  it) the Steelers only rushed 4 and did very little “Blitzburgh” stuff.  
  They where begging the Bills to take the ball out of Josh’s hands and run it the Bills didn’t….that’s 4 games in row now teams are telling you we are not letting Allen beat us.
  Daboll literally seems to have no confidence in our ability to run the ball or he truely is a one trick pony pass every down and pray we make the end zone coordinator.
  The truth is this is very fixable it was one game but it is a larger problem that the league has figured out Daboll and now he must adjust we shall see if he does.  

 

It is scary how similar it was to the AFCCG.

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59 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  

The lack of a balanced attack finally caught up to them....

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21 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

That isn’t good enough. I don’t settle for participation trophies. 

If we can’t win a super bowl this year. We have to do further investigation into why. If it’s a lack of talent, then we need to draft and sign better players. If it’s play calling ills, the. McDermott needs to address it. No more excuses, just win a super bowl. 

Dude, relax.  it's the first game of the season.  Every year is different.  Every team is different.  It takes time to establish your identity.  Last year, we didn't have everything together until after that AZ game.  But they found who they were and we were unstoppable.  Just be patient.  McD always get this figured out.  You give up hope way too easily.

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5 minutes ago, ProcessYaDigg said:

Dude, relax.  it's the first game of the season.  Every year is different.  Every team is different.  It takes time to establish your identity.  Last year, we didn't have everything together until after that AZ game.  But they found who they were and we were unstoppable.  Just be patient.  McD always get this figured out.  You give up hope way too easily.

Normally that refrain makes sense. But think about the last four games the Bills have played. Have you, at any point during those games, thought that they were unstoppable? Did yesterday's game give you confidence that McD, Daboll have a plan to counter what we saw against the Chiefs, Colts?

This is much more than a single game. It is a pattern of poor O execution against stout front 4s. It is poor scheming and adjusting on the coordinator's parts. Its McD not doing enough to make his coordinators change their stubborn habits 

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I disagree- this was not ALL on Daboll. It was a (losing) team effort.

 

- Many questionable play calls, at both the OC and HC level

- Josh simply ignored (or never saw) many wide open receivers on the underneath routes in favor of throwing deep into double or triple coverage several times. No excuse for this.

- Levi Wallace. No explanation needed here.

- Special teams- that blocked punt is the difference in the game. No excuse for that guy coming right up the gut like that.

- I will mention the refs here. I'm not a big fan of blaming officiating but the call against Tre was very questionable in my mind and overturned a pivotal INT. The PI call on the deep ball was awful and should never have been called by the official who was nowhere near the play (it was not called by the guy right next to it)

- D-LIne... we invested a lot into these guys. They did a very good job against the run, but they did not get the pressure that we needed against Roehlisberger. He had way too much time to throw on a lot of plays. You can tell that he HATES getting hit, and I think a few good hits on him would have really changed the complexion of the game. If they can't get pressure against 2 rookies and a 2nd year player on the Steelers O-Line, what gives us reason to think they will be more successful in future games? I hope they are, but I am a little worried after this performance.

- O-Line: way too much pressure on Josh

 

I'm sure I am overlooking some other things as well, but let's not pretend this was ALL about Daboll.

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Daboll did not have a good day. But the loss is primarily on the oline. Not a lot of plays that work when three rushers are free pretty much off the ball. 

 

Interesting looking at discussion forums of other teams today how many fans think their OC sucks. Panthers fans want Joe Brady fired, Packers want Hackett out, Giants want rid of Garrett, Colts fans already moaning about their new guy. 

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The sky is not falling, but the loss is pretty brutal.  Home and against a potential playoff team in your conference that you need to beat.  Next week will be the main indicator, however, of what direction we are going.  If the offense sputters again against the division rival, we are more likely looking at a long season (and not just because it's 17 games).

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1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  


Josh was obviously frazzled and a different guy playing in front of a full crowd for the first time in two years. I think Daboll felt he needed to incorporate runs by Josh in order to get Josh into the game and switch him from overthinking mode into react mode. It seemed to work for the one drive before the half.  Daboll did this a lot in 2019 when Josh came out too amped-up. 

Edited by Charles Romes
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For all the it’s just 1 game crowd. We are now a game behind the Chiefs for home field advantage through the playoffs. Which means we have to hope someone beats them and we win head to head at arrowhead. Every single game matters when you have a great team like the Chiefs in your conference. We can’t go to the super bowl unless we build a team to beat them. Watching yesterday’s game didn’t exactly instill confidence that we made big enough strides to do that. 

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