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Training Camp practice 8/3: Pads come on


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12 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

I wouldn't discount the relationship that Hollister already has with Josh-- they were teammates at Wyoming, and Hollister plays no small part in Josh's highlight reel, but they are also close friends. And the chemistry is already there. That is especially true of Tanner Gentry, as well, although he obviously has a narrower path to the 53.

 

Friendship matters - but Josh seems to have the gift of making friends of almost everyone, everywhere.  Look at how he said in his presser that Trubisky is already becoming one of his best friends. 

 

Here's the thing.  Those guys - Hollister and Gentry - were getting open against lesser defensive backs in the Mountain West Conference.  I think John Brown and Cole Beasley were a revelation to Josh as far as what a skilled NFL-caliber WR could do.  Then Stefon Diggs came along and dropped everyone's jaws, before setting to work trying to level-up the whole WR corps.

 

I think Josh would like to see his friends from college succeed, but I also think the chemistry they had in college, with the college playbook and level of competition in college, doesn't matter so much now as whoever can master the Bills NFL playbook, run crisp routes, and get open against NFL DBs.  It's fair for Josh to maybe go to the FO and coaches and say "hey, after 3 years of throwing to different receivers I think these guys are worth a look, I think they can play in the league" and be heard.  But they have to stand or fall on their own now.

 

Hollister has already made it onto the 53-man roster of two different, highly competitive NFL teams (NE and SEA, not the Jests or the Jags).  He's played in 50 NFL games including 25 games where he took at least 20% of the offensive snaps.  His major competition in Buffalo is himself.  If he can get and stay healthy, he will be on an NFL roster somewhere else if not here.

 

Gentry got onto the field for 4 games for Chicago in 2017, but after that it's been practice squad and last year out of football.  Part of that may be turnover of the coaching staff - new OC in CHI may have a bias to develop guys they've scouted.  Part of it may be, perhaps the Bears aren't very good at developing depth players.  But every FO has a bit of a bias towards guys they themselves draft.  I don't see Gentry's college chemistry with Josh bumping him up the depth chart over Hodgins or Stevenson.  He may not even make the practice squad, though if it's expanded this coming season, perhaps.

 

By the way, I don't think Gentry gets many looks in 11 on 11 from Josh.  Although the reporters apparently can't tell us who is running with the 1's, 2's etc.

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15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Friendship matters - but Josh seems to have the gift of making friends of almost everyone, everywhere.  Look at how he said in his presser that Trubisky is already becoming one of his best friends. 

 

Here's the thing.  Those guys - Hollister and Gentry - were getting open against lesser defensive backs in the Mountain West Conference.  I think John Brown and Cole Beasley were a revelation to Josh as far as what a skilled NFL-caliber WR could do.  Then Stefon Diggs came along and dropped everyone's jaws, before setting to work trying to level-up the whole WR corps.

 

I think Josh would like to see his friends from college succeed, but I also think the chemistry they had in college, with the college playbook and level of competition in college, doesn't matter so much now as whoever can master the Bills NFL playbook, run crisp routes, and get open against NFL DBs.  It's fair for Josh to maybe go to the FO and coaches and say "hey, after 3 years of throwing to different receivers I think these guys are worth a look, I think they can play in the league" and be heard.  But they have to stand or fall on their own now.

 

Hollister has already made it onto the 53-man roster of two different, highly competitive NFL teams (NE and SEA, not the Jests or the Jags).  He's played in 50 NFL games including 25 games where he took at least 20% of the offensive snaps.  His major competition in Buffalo is himself.  If he can get and stay healthy, he will be on an NFL roster somewhere else if not here.

 

Gentry got onto the field for 4 games for Chicago in 2017, but after that it's been practice squad and last year out of football.  Part of that may be turnover of the coaching staff - new OC in CHI may have a bias to develop guys they've scouted.  Part of it may be, perhaps the Bears aren't very good at developing depth players.  But every FO has a bit of a bias towards guys they themselves draft.  I don't see Gentry's college chemistry with Josh bumping him up the depth chart over Hodgins or Stevenson.  He may not even make the practice squad, though if it's expanded this coming season, perhaps.

Really the point I’m mostly making is that the relationship and chemistry that Gentry had with Allen upon his arrival, gave him a bit of a head start, and improved opportunities early on in the process. Allen has been throwing him the ball.  By most accounts, Gentry seems to have taken advantage of it. If Gentry were merely pedestrian , it would be meaningless. But, apparently, he is showing up. 
 

 

 

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Nice article from Mark Gaughan of the Buffalo News.  For those of us who have been wondering about the run game, the first day in pads provides a first look:

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/training-camp-observations-bills-rbs-hit-holes-hard-on-first-day-in-pads/article_5807e900-f49d-11eb-b6a4-f309a5dae46b.html#tracking-source=in-article

 

 

 

Quote

The Bills’ top two running backs weren’t dancing around in a 90-minute practice that featured more run plays than we’ve seen the previous week. Singletary and Moss were accelerating hard into the holes in the line. They combined to produce three strong runs, and newcomer Matt Breida slashed ahead with a fourth in a five-play stretch during a running segment in practice.

 

Defensive players were coached to “thud” the ball carrier without tackling them to the ground, but the blocking on the line of scrimmage was live.

 

Quote

Christian Wade drew cheers from the offense when he made a quick bounce to the outside for a good run gain. Antonio Williams had a strong run up the middle on the previous play. Then linebacker Tyrel Dodson made a would-be stop on Breida in the hole.
 

Linebacker Tremaine Edmunds had a strong day. He “thudded” Singletary in the hole for what would have been no gain. Two plays later, Edmunds dropped into coverage and got his long arms in the way of a Josh Allen pass for a bat-down.
 

Veteran linebacker Andre Smith stuffed up Wade on a run and then made another run stop on a wide run. In the final run period, rookie Carlos Basham showed his power at the point of attack on back-to-back run stops by the defense.

 

Gaughan makes the point that with no tackling, it's harder to tell who had the upper hand, but it sounds at least like mixed results where the offense had some good run plays as well as some that got stuffed.

 

By the way, since others are plugging the Athletic, I'll put in a word for the quality of the Bills content at the News.  There is usually football content I want to read there, and it's $1/month right now.  I subscribe to both.

Edit: and for those who are wondering how Gentry and some of the other WR "lower down the chart" are doing:

Quote

Cole Beasley showed his good hands in a one-on-one rep despite the fact Taron Johnson was clutching and grabbing him.

 

Other noteworthy plays from the passing one-on-ones included: a fine catch by former Wyoming Cowboy Tanner Gentry deep vs. Dane Jackson, a good-hands grab by Lance Lenoir on Levi Wallace, a pass breakup by Rachad Wildgoose on Gentry, good coverage by Wallace on an incompletion for Diggs, and a deep catch by Isaiah McKenzie on Neal.

 

Gentry's catch is in one of the clips up on Twitter - it was indeed outstanding.

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14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Nice article from Mark Gaughan of the Buffalo News.  For those of us who have been wondering about the run game, the first day in pads provides a first look:

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/training-camp-observations-bills-rbs-hit-holes-hard-on-first-day-in-pads/article_5807e900-f49d-11eb-b6a4-f309a5dae46b.html#tracking-source=in-article

 

 

 

 

 

Gaughan makes the point that with no tackling, it's harder to tell who had the upper hand, but it sounds at least like mixed results where the offense had some good run plays as well as some that got stuffed.

 

By the way, since others are plugging the Athletic, I'll put in a word for the quality of the Bills content at the News.  There is usually football content I want to read there, and it's $1/month right now.  I subscribe to both.

Edit: and for those who are wondering how Gentry and some of the other WR "lower down the chart" are doing:

 

Gentry's catch is in one of the clips up on Twitter - it was indeed outstanding.

Do you have a link to the Gentry catch?

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18 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

So, new for the 2021 team.....

- New and improved Josh Allen, takes that experience and becomes that much better hitting year four.

- More depth at WR.

- An ironed-out run game where Daboll puts in some time.

- An improved O-line moreso in the run game.

- A faster, better, hungrier, deeper DL.

- a deeper roster everywhere.....

 

Anything else?

 

Go Bills!

Punter. Not sold at all on the Dolphin cast off.

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18 minutes ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

I think Singletary will have a career year

I completely agree.

 

The reports show that he is more explosive, put more muscle on and more decisive.  I expect him to have a really good year.

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3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

McKenzie also has had issues with muffing punts in the past… interested to see if that’s improved or not.

 

Yeah, part of me hopes that McKenzie doesn't have the same gene as Trent Edwards, Nate Peterman, RayRay McCloud and others who would do well in training camp, but then have issues during game time.

 

To clarify we know McKenzie has a bunch of tools at WR (I'm not worried about him there), but I believe he has looked good in the past at ST's during training camp only to have more of a challenge during the regular season.

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1 hour ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

I think Singletary will have a career year

So 800 yards 🤣🤣🤣 how many undrafted FAs will catch on somewhere and pull that off?  I'm over him, let's feature Moss and spell Breida. Motor can get the leftovers until he's a FA

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1 hour ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

Right. I just really like the guys work ethic and the way he goes about attacking his weaknesses. I think he'll start seeing better results because of it. 

Couldn't you have at least tried to come up with a more original name?

I mean, c'mon.

 

Maybe something like Hapeless BillssFan or something?

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Looks the same to me and plenty of people mention it in the replies of the tweet.

 

Classic!

Thank goodness it was an entirely different thing back when I went there.

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On 8/3/2021 at 11:34 AM, Process said:

We should have a nice pass rush. Run D is definitely still a concern. 

 

Also I wouldn't say it's a one year turnaround. They have been trying to get the d line right since they got here and it's probably been their biggest failure. Murphy, Star, Jefferson, Phillips, Butler, Addison. All guys they've brought in that haven't had much of an impact.

 

You add in Oliver, AJ, this year's rookies... It's actually amazing how much attention they've given the d line the past few years. Hopefully this is the year we see it pay off. 

 

Of all those i underlined, the big whiff was Trent Murphy who is currently a free agent.

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2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Really the point I’m mostly making is that the relationship and chemistry that Gentry had with Allen upon his arrival, gave him a bit of a head start, and improved opportunities early on in the process. Allen has been throwing him the ball.  By most accounts, Gentry seems to have taken advantage of it. If Gentry were merely pedestrian , it would be meaningless. But, apparently, he is showing up. 
 

 

 


Curious about the “Josh has been throwing him the ball”.  Saw an overthrown deep ball from Josh in OTA and ever since then everything reception seems to have Trubisky or Fromm on the other end

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:


Curious about the “Josh has been throwing him the ball”.  Saw an overthrown deep ball from Josh in OTA and ever since then everything reception seems to have Trubisky or Fromm on the other end

That could very well be true. It’s hard for me to decipher so much of what happens in TC through all the tweets, and (at times) contradictory articles. I think many of us end up building a narrative through this foggy lens, and our own confirmation bias that ends up disappointing a lot of fans.
 

There’s always one or two story lines every season that end up making me feel silly. 

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43 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

So 800 yards 🤣🤣🤣 how many undrafted FAs will catch on somewhere and pull that off?  I'm over him, let's feature Moss and spell Breida. Motor can get the leftovers until he's a FA

No. Like 1200 and 6 tds or something along those lines with 300 receiving added in. He'll do things Bills fans aren't expecting IMO

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20 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I am adding this to my pot for the Hughes trade. I know guys are going to call me nuts, but Hughes will be traded if the Bills can find a desperate  team willing to let go of a top 100 pick in 2022.

 

I also think Hughes will be on the block, too much $, too old, so much new talent. i think the Bills could get a lot for him, maybe  2nd or 3rd.,  yes his energy and QB pressure will be missed, his penalties wont be.

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5 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

I also think Hughes will be on the block, too much $, too old, so much new talent. i think the Bills could get a lot for him, maybe  2nd or 3rd.,  yes his energy and QB pressure will be missed, his penalties wont be.

Then trade him towards TJ Watt or Nick or Joey Bosa.:wub:

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18 minutes ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

No. Like 1200 and 6 tds or something along those lines with 300 receiving added in. He'll do things Bills fans aren't expecting IMO

I could see this happening. I too think fans will be surprised by the running game. Someone will emerge, and someone will be strong second. The o line os what will make the difference. 

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8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Fair enough that they've had problems with DL so far.

 

But it's ridiculous to say that it's been a failure when they had one of the three or four best Ds in football in 2019 and were close to that in 2018.

 

Star has been a success. Phillips looked like one until the injury. And while Murphy just didn't seem able to be what they'd hoped in terms of the pass rush at all, the others seem to have been greatly affected by the loss of Star last year, and its knock-on effects. It meant that guys were put into positions they were not supposed to be in, particularly Jefferson.

 

I'm a lot less worried about run defense than pass defense. When Star has been on the field, the run D has been pretty decent. Pass rush has consistently been not so much a weakness as just not a strength except when sacks have been schemed up. The rookies, and Epenesa's development, do look like they may have a real effect there, but it's really too early to say after one padded practice.

 

Agreed it's not a one-year turnaround, though, and that hopefully we see it fully pay off this year.

 

 

 

My sister lives in Fort Collins so I get up there around once a year or so. Really nice little town. Last time (two years ago, pre-COVID) we saw that insane costumed bike race, and we always get up to the reservoir and rent a boat. Awesome.

 

And I don't know the name of the restaurant, but every time we rent a boat, my brother-in-law goes and buys a giant load of barbecue somewhere, and oh, my God, is that good barbecue.

It's not much of a "little" town anymore.

I lived there from 1990 to 2000.  

 

Went to school there, met my wife (a local) and got married and had our son there.

 

The last time I visited there was 4 years ago, and I could not believe how much it changed.  Old familiar areas of town where we lived now looked completely different.  One of my friends told me that, at the time, there were 1,000 a day moving into Colorado.  1,000 a day!  

When I asked him why, he said it was mostly due to the new cannabis laws.  Yikes!

 

Anyway... Go Rams!

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29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I could see this happening. I too think fans will be surprised by the running game. Someone will emerge, and someone will be strong second. The o line os what will make the difference. 

 

I agree.  I think Beane/McDermott have learned the hard way you need real speed at RB and why we have Breida.  Having J Allen is one of our leading rushers is asking way too much of hum and dangerous.

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49 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

I also think Hughes will be on the block, too much $, too old, so much new talent. i think the Bills could get a lot for him, maybe  2nd or 3rd.,  yes his energy and QB pressure will be missed, his penalties wont be.

 

Hughes had 4 penalties last season, 2 for defensive Offside, 1 for neutral zone infraction, 1 for roughing the passer that was arguably bogus

How many penalties of that sort do you think a high caliber pass rusher should get?

 

It always amazes me how some of us will tear down a Bills player - too old, too expensive contract , too many penalties.....and then turn around and think another team will give up a high pick in trade for him 🤦‍♂️

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Hughes had 4 penalties last season, 2 for defensive Offside, 1 for neutral zone infraction, 1 for roughing the passer that was arguably bogus

How many penalties of that sort do you think a high caliber pass rusher should get?

 

It always amazes me how some of us will tear down a Bills player - too old, too expensive contract , too many penalties.....and then turn around and think another team will give up a high pick in trade for him 🤦‍♂️

 

 

Tearing down a Bills players, yea whatever, if it makes you feel better.

 

It always amazes me people cherry pick one year stats trying to prove a point.  He had 6 the year before, 5 in 2018, 6 in 2017 and costly unsportsmanlike conduct each of those seasons (2 in 2017) all which were unnecessary.  He had another 8 penalties  in 2016, 14 in 2015 (second most in the league) , 9 in 2014.  That is a lot of penalties, love his enthusiasm but he losses his cool too often and at the worst times.

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24 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Yes all of them have been guaranteed to be able to buy a pair of tickets.

Maybe one of them will let you buy one since you have been cheering for them.

Of course I have...I guess that's the next best thing...

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36 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Tearing down a Bills players, yea whatever, if it makes you feel better.

 

It always amazes me people cherry pick one year stats trying to prove a point.  He had 6 the year before, 5 in 2018, 6 in 2017 and costly unsportsmanlike conduct each of those seasons (2 in 2017) all which were unnecessary.  He had another 8 penalties  in 2016, 14 in 2015 (second most in the league) , 9 in 2014.  That is a lot of penalties, love his enthusiasm but he losses his cool too often and at the worst times.

 

You realize this is the same logic train driven by those who want to say last year was an anomaly and Allen will "regress" to his 2019 level of performance?

Last year is just cherry-picking one year stats trying to prove a point!  It doesn't reflect an actual change!

 

McDermott and several players talked about Hughes having "matured" a lot last season due to taking a leadership role on the team and being elected a Captain.  Therefore, it may be significant that he had zero unsportsmanlike conduct penalties last season and appeared to lose his cool zero times.

 

Whether or not you believe that Allen will inevitably regress because quoting last year's stats is just "cherry picking trying to prove a point", the point remains:

 

In the very same post where you tear down Hughes as too old, too expensive, and drawing too many penalties - you then turn around and suggest that the Bills could get "a lot" (eg a high draft pick) for the same old, expensive, heavily penalized player you just critiqued.

 

If you can't see the contradiction there, others surely can.

 

 

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Yes, let's trade Hughes heading into a year where we are serious contenders and the guy has a lot left in the tank! WONDERFUL FREAKING IDEA!!! I'm sure veterans in the locker room will embrace that move! To hell with trying to win a championship! It's all about the NFL draft!!!

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29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You realize this is the same logic train driven by those who want to say last year was an anomaly and Allen will "regress" to his 2019 level of performance?

Last year is just cherry-picking one year stats trying to prove a point!  It doesn't reflect an actual change!

 

McDermott and several players talked about Hughes having "matured" a lot last season due to taking a leadership role on the team and being elected a Captain.  Therefore, it may be significant that he had zero unsportsmanlike conduct penalties last season and appeared to lose his cool zero times.

 

Whether or not you believe that Allen will inevitably regress because quoting last year's stats is just "cherry picking trying to prove a point", the point remains:

 

In the very same post where you tear down Hughes as too old, too expensive, and drawing too many penalties - you then turn around and suggest that the Bills could get "a lot" (eg a high draft pick) for the same old, expensive, heavily penalized player you just critiqued.

 

If you can't see the contradiction there, others surely can.

 

 

 

 

Fact is Jerry Hughes has been a great player for the Bills, also fact is he has had serious penalty issues,  Has he matured to control his emotions on the field in the heat of the moment, i hope so.  Also fact he is old now.  Like to see how many snaps late in the game he has had this year versus year before.

 

And your interjection of Allen to this is not additive at all to advance any meaningful discussion.  Comparing Allen to Hughes is laughable, one is old and sorry, hate to be a bummer but his contract now is expensive compared to the 2 young  DEs picked in the first two rounds.  Gee why did that happen?   We pay more Hughes this year then Greg Rous in the first 3 years.  

 

And "tearing down" is a pejorative statement to diminish my comments, fact is, if you can be intellectually honest he is old, and my comments about his contract are not about tearing him down, they are about  the contract, get it, the distinction between player and contract?

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Beast said:

Yes, let's trade Hughes heading into a year where we are serious contenders and the guy has a lot left in the tank! WONDERFUL FREAKING IDEA!!! I'm sure veterans in the locker room will embrace that move! To hell with trying to win a championship! It's all about the NFL draft!!!

Somebody has to go, yes I know is it uncomfortable and yes the vets wont be happy but they are also adult and understand this is a business.

 

Now serious question, what would Bill Belichek do?

 

I am NOT advocating to get ri of Hughes BUT if we can get a 2nd or a 3rd I would do that in a heartbeat.  Around pick4 I lose interest.  

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56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You realize this is the same logic train driven by those who want to say last year was an anomaly and Allen will "regress" to his 2019 level of performance?

Last year is just cherry-picking one year stats trying to prove a point!  It doesn't reflect an actual change!

 

McDermott and several players talked about Hughes having "matured" a lot last season due to taking a leadership role on the team and being elected a Captain.  Therefore, it may be significant that he had zero unsportsmanlike conduct penalties last season and appeared to lose his cool zero times.

 

Whether or not you believe that Allen will inevitably regress because quoting last year's stats is just "cherry picking trying to prove a point", the point remains:

 

In the very same post where you tear down Hughes as too old, too expensive, and drawing too many penalties - you then turn around and suggest that the Bills could get "a lot" (eg a high draft pick) for the same old, expensive, heavily penalized player you just critiqued.

 

If you can't see the contradiction there, others surely can.

 

 

Although I agree with you about the penalties, the leadership, and the overall quality play - he's downright solid and effective, I could see a scenario where he gets traded.   I don't think it will happen, because he's a veteran leader and quality contributor, but ...

 

suppose some combination of Efe, Rousseau, Basham and Epenesa looks like they are going to take substantial playing time from Hughes.   I don't think that will happen, but if it did, Hughes could become expendable.  

 

I don't think that will happen, in part because I don't know that his trade value is very high.  Who would want him?   He's not an impact pass rusher, which is what everyone is looking for.   He's a long-term, quality player and leader, but at this point in his career, he doesn't have the time to become a long-term leader anywhere else.  

 

All of this tells me Hughes isn't going anywhere, and we'll be happy to have him (except that someone the Bills cut might turn out to be a contributor somewhere else).  

 

 

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4 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

I also think Hughes will be on the block, too much $, too old, so much new talent. i think the Bills could get a lot for him, maybe  2nd or 3rd.,  yes his energy and QB pressure will be missed, his penalties wont be.

This is absolutely ridiculous lol. Both that you think we should let him go, and that you think we would get a 2nd or 3rd rd pick if we did. 

 

If they got rid of Hughes and kept Addison id be pissed. 

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27 minutes ago, Process said:

This is absolutely ridiculous lol. Both that you think we should let him go, and that you think we would get a 2nd or 3rd rd pick if we did. 

 

If they got rid of Hughes and kept Addison id be pissed. 

 

Stop letting logic get in the way of a good crusade

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Although I agree with you about the penalties, the leadership, and the overall quality play - he's downright solid and effective, I could see a scenario where he gets traded.   I don't think it will happen, because he's a veteran leader and quality contributor, but ...

 

suppose some combination of Efe, Rousseau, Basham and Epenesa looks like they are going to take substantial playing time from Hughes.   I don't think that will happen, but if it did, Hughes could become expendable.  

 

Fair.  But I think (maybe it's wishful thinking) that the Bills FO have learnt their lesson from the Peterman debacle: Looking good in preseason does not guarantee regular season results.  I think they try hard to "hedge their bets", though how they're gonna do it with all the guys they got, I dunno

 

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think that will happen, in part because I don't know that his trade value is very high.  Who would want him? 

 

I tend to think Hughes has more value to the Bills than he has in trade right now

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