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Training Camp practice 7/29


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2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I probably am overvaluing him, but it's all speculative based on the best case scenario.

 

That part I bolded is where it gets tough. McKenzie, Kumerow, Hodgins, and Stevenson may all look roster-worthy by the end of preseason. And they all have different skill sets. In today's pass-happy league, a guy with Stevenson's skill set is at much greater risk of getting poached.

 

His skill set being speed or, what are you seeing?

 

McKenzie ran a 4.42 40.

Stevenson 4.45 (in a combine-less off season)

 

McKenzie 6.64 3-cone

Stevenson 6.76

 

I'm not trying to diss on Stevenson, and Beane absolutely likes to give his draft choices the best chance to make the roster, but Stevenson is gonna have to show he can run routes and get separation.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

His skill set being speed or, what are you seeing?

 

McKenzie ran a 4.42 40.

Stevenson 4.45 (in a combine-less off season)

 

McKenzie 6.64 3-cone

Stevenson 6.76

 

I'm not trying to diss on Stevenson, and Beane absolutely likes to give his draft choices the best chance to make the roster, but Stevenson is gonna have to show he can run routes and get separation.

 

 

 

Being fast, shifty and versatile. I'm seeing what you're seeing, but obviously talking about a potential scenario. I thought that was clear.

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand your point, but if Josh is going to work on how/where he throws under pressure, perhaps now is the time when pads are off?

 

Just a note for the fans "Jonesing" for video, per Jon Scott

"All of the highlights coming during the portion of practice where local media is not allowed to shoot video or even still photos."

 

I believe I read somewhere (from Matt Fairburn perhaps?) that the same rules as last season would apply, the credentialed media are not allowed to report on which players took reps with which team unit (1sts, 2nds etc)

 

Last but not least per the above, Siran Neal intercepted a Mitch Trubisky pass:
 

 

Elsewhere  being reported that Neal picked Josh:

 

It makes more sense that if it was Trubisky's reps, Allen would be able to go talk to Daboll about it vs. pausing the entire practice while the QB confers with the OC which is not the usual SOP as far as I've seen, but we're still having some "Rashoman" moments from the press unless Neal had 2 picks in today's practice (which would be highly noteworthy)

 

OK, Sal Capaccio clarified in his longer piece:

Quote

Shortly after that, cornerback Siran Neal stepped in front of an Allen toss for an interception of his own. The quarterback immediately went to offensive coordinator Brian Daboll to discuss what went wrong on the play.

 

Neal almost came up with another pick, this time off Trubisky, diving for a low pass in front of the intended receiver, just missing from keeping the ball off the turf.

 

Apparently according to another reporter the first INT was ruled incomplete but might have been seen as an INT on replay.

 

 

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7 hours ago, wjag said:

 

Out of curiosity, anyone know what they get paid per day to be a camp body?

I found this quote from an article that sheds light on your question. It's an idea of how it is calcuated. NFL Draft 2019: What’s the difference between undrafted free agent and rookie minicamp tryout?

 

NFL Draft 2019: What’s the difference between undrafted free agent and rookie minicamp tryout? - nj.com

Quote

During preseason training camp, rookies receive $1,075 per week and veterans receive $1,900 per week regardless of individual contracts. The universal truth for draft picks, UFAs and tryout players alike is making the 53-man roster is the end game: For every week a player is on the roster, he receives 1/17th of his salary.

 

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2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Being fast, shifty and versatile. I'm seeing what you're seeing, but obviously talking about a potential scenario. I thought that was clear.

 

I get it, my point is if we're talking who gets poached, of the 4 you named I think McKenzie has more poachability as he's actually shown he can do it in the NFL on Sunday.  Kumerow gets the "Aaron Rodgers Seal of Approval" Boost to his visibility.  Hodgins is a year away from being scouted for the draft and spent the season on IR, I think he'd have to do something pretty remarkable in preseason to have much difference.

 

I would put the "gets snapped up on waivers if cut" order for the 4 of them McKenzie, Kumerow, Stevenson, Hodgins

 

JM(way too early) opinion

 

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I get it, my point is if we're talking who gets poached, of the 4 you named I think McKenzie has more poachability as he's actually shown he can do it in the NFL on Sunday.  Kumerow gets the "Aaron Rodgers Seal of Approval" Boost to his visibility.  Hodgins is a year away from being scouted for the draft and spent the season on IR, I think he'd have to do something pretty remarkable in preseason to have much difference.

 

I would put the "gets snapped up on waivers if cut" order for the 4 of them McKenzie, Kumerow, Stevenson, Hodgins

 

JM(way too early) opinion

 

I'd put Stevenson ahead of Kumerow if they're showing out in camp/preseason and all else being equal. That Kumerow trade thread would get hot!

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2 hours ago, wjag said:

 

From that camera angle, it doesn't look very special at all.  I wonder what he saw that I can't see?  Must be he threaded over and between defenders.

 

Edit:  So this is what we can't see from that camera angle.

 

"

“But I mean that throw in terms of just zip on his ball and the accuracy and the catch by Cole, it was a beautiful play,” Sanders said.

The play came as the Bills were in their second 11-on-11 session of the practice, which was moved indoors because of the rain. Allen waited patiently in the pocket and let Beasley get into his route down the middle of the field and then fit a perfect, blistering spiral in between safeties Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde. It hit Beasley in stride and the slot receiver went untouched into the end zone."

Sal Cappacio called that video out as not doing the pass justice. He said it was just like the perfectly thrown pass he physically guided at the 49ers, only this one went over TWO defenders and into Beasleys breadbasket on the run. 

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5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/explained-do-players-get-paid-nfl-training-camp

 

Basically about $3,400 for a rookie, and $6,400 (plus whatever may be in their contract) for the month, plus housing, food, training facilities, and recovery/rehab services of trainers.

 

So, for example, a vet like Forrest Lamp who may or may not make the team, signed a contract with $137,000 signing bonus and $350,000 guaranteed (bonus plus part of his salary). If the Bills cut him, he walks away with $350,000 for his OTA and training camp work, in addition to the $6,400 training camp money.

 

But others like Jake Kumerow, Justin Zimmer, Tanner Gentry, Mike Love, or Joe Giles Harris just get that training camp per-diem summing to $6,400 plus food and housing etc.

 

 

 

Looks like it’s inside?

 

 

That's why Benjamin was stealing the food!!  Wouldn't shock me to hear he took some band-aids and a couple of heating pads too.

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1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Parrino reported that Jacob Hollister hurt his back and is day to day

.....but then again, aren't we all?

 

4 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I alluded to this a few months back on one of the JA highlights threads.

    I think that was a big part of the discussion about working the middle of the field routes. The coaches self scout and he does and he clearly got his receivers blown up a few times unnecessarily. 
     When he starts leading Them into open spots and hitting them in stride, the sky is the limit.

     Last year, he seemed to understand the defensive coverages and where the open AREAS where. Let’s see when understand where the open SPOTS are. Still a work in progress but I so trust him/ them to take another sizable step forward.

Which is why I would list the touchdown throw to Diggs in the Colts playoff game as one of my favorites.  Hit him perfectly in stride so he could blow by the defender...and I remember Diggs making Allen throw a ball over in training camp to lead him like that.  Agree, needs to do that even more consistently, but when he does it is a thing of beauty.

 

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43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FML, why don't you just bring up Deonte Thompson, Terelle Pryor and the Ghost of Jeremy Kerley while you're on this drive to cause Deja Vu Despair?

Deonte Thompson caught a huge pass in the Snow Game so he’s exempt from this 


Jeremy kerley was low. Might as well discuss ray ray 

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47 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Sal Cappacio called that video out as not doing the pass justice. He said it was just like the perfectly thrown pass he physically guided at the 49ers, only this one went over TWO defenders and into Beasleys breadbasket on the run. 

I find these reports to be quite disturbing. Allen’s arm must be getting more arrogant by the day. 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

In other developments....it appears the Bills are not happy with the plethora of OLmen they already have on the roster, as they have just signed two more

 

Beane is looking for a PS guy or 2 after he trades off the guys who don't make the team for picks.

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43 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Deonte Thompson caught a huge pass in the Snow Game so he’s exempt from this 

Jeremy kerley was low. Might as well discuss ray ray 

 

Terelle Pryor Dude.  Just sayin'

 

Snow Game Pass for Deonte, got it.

 

And yes, while you're bringing up the Cat Hurl of 2018 WR, Rayray may be included

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I may be a bit late to the game--had a long, long day--but I re-watched the interview with Emmanuel Sanders, and he had one of the coolest, most well thought-out quotes I've heard from an NFL player:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bubxaUhQ5v0

 

Skip ahead to 5:40 - 6:02 into the interview; Sanders says:

 

“I think that, when you want to talk about an organization, about a football team in general, that’s what I mean about fun. You got a group of guys that is passionate about what they do. And you would think that everybody’s passionate about it, but, ahhh… some people is just good at it. Passion and good is two different things, and so I think that in this building we’ve got a lot of guys that are passionate about what they are doing, and they want to be successful, and they are having fun doing what they love to do.” 

 

 

If that isn't a McDermott/Beane sentiment, I'm not sure what is. Whether he is out of gas or not, Sanders is going to bring the mindset we need to level up. Glad we have him on this team, and stoked to see what he brings on gameday!

 

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4 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, it's gonna be tough to choose who rounds out the group. It really depends on how Stevenson and Hodgins progress through camp/preseason.

 

Stevenson grabbed a deep ball from Fromm where he got good separation. If he keeps doing that, it's gonna be hard to try to hide him on the PS.

Fromm !!!

 

Stevenson will make the team. There will be no doubt about it !

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Josh Allen was feeling it
Basham may have made the play of the day, but there were other candidates, including a few throws from Allen. In past training camps, Allen and the offense have started slow. Even during his breakout 2020 season, the signs weren’t there early in camp.

But Allen’s first two days of training camp in 2021 might be the best two-day stretch of practices he’s made since entering the NFL. He’s calm and sure of himself in the pocket, and his accuracy has come a long way since his rookie season. 

In total, Allen went 15-for-20 during team drills. He had the interception to Basham, a throwaway, a pass that bounced off Stefon Diggs’ hands and two forced incompletions due to pressure. Other than that, Allen was on target and pushing the ball down field. The throw to Beasley garnered most of the attention, but Allen spread the ball around to all of his receivers and made easy work of a tough Bills secondary. On day one of camp, Allen made a few sensational plays off script, including a touchdown to Diggs. But Thursday was about what Allen did on schedule. He’s accurate and in-control of the offense, two qualities he’s consistently improved during his time in the NFL.

“Josh Allen is a football player, not only just a quarterback,” Diggs said. “It’s kind of hard to describe, a guy that drops back and does everything, a guy that can go off script and make those throws and play a little bit of backyard football or extend the play. A guy like that, you want to take that next step with him.”

Added Beasley: “Josh was still improving every game in my opinion, last year. He’s still a young player. You guys probably know better than I do how many games he’s started in his career, I mean it’s really not that many. And for a guy to kind of explode like he did last year at such a young age, it’s like, how good can he really be? It’s kind of crazy to think about, but knowing him, I know he’s gonna put in that work every day and the sky’s the limit for him. I’m pumped that I get to be here and be a part of it because he can throw it anywhere on the field and anytime you got a guy like that and it’s on me just to get open for him, he’s gonna get it.”

 

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Cole Beasley keeps making catches
Beasley’s social media behavior and vaccine comments got him attention over the summer, but his play on the field has been noteworthy to start camp. In two days of practice, Beasley has caught three touchdowns. He had five catches during team drills on Thursday, including the play that made Sanders take notice. There may not be another player on this team more capable of handling Allen’s fastball. On the first day of practice, he caught a bullet from short range. He’s exceptional at adjusting and reacting even when the ball arrives in a spot he wasn’t expecting. When he and Emmanuel Sanders are both in the slot, this offense is going to be tough to defend.

 

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Isaiah McKenzie is still a pest

And on Thursday, McKenzie was all over the place making tough catches. McKenzie had six total catches on Thursday, four from Mitchell Trubisky and two from Allen. He was also dominant in one-on-one drills at the start of practice. McKenzie has survived every competition he’s been a part of in Buffalo.

 

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Marquez Stevenson is making an early impact
Marquez Stevenson is among the fastest players on the Bills’ roster. That much has been obvious through two practices. He’s also finding ways to get open and separate himself from the other receivers battling for a spot on the backend of the roster. He caught a touchdown on Thursday and left the closest defender yards away him with his quickness out of his break. During one-on-ones earlier in practice, Stevenson ran by Levi Wallace, who ended up grabbing Stevenson’s jersey to slow him down. That type of speed would be a welcome addition to the Bills’ receiver depth chart. He may not be an immediate contributor, but Stevenson is worth developing. His path to the field in 2021 will likely come as a return man, but he’s showing the necessary skills to play receiver in the NFL, too.

 

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Siran Neal has a role on this defense
The Bills deserve credit for coming up with a plan for Siran Neal, adjusting it when needed and finding a way to maximize his talent. Neal is a handful as a cornerback. During one-on-ones, he had a rep against Gabriel Davis during which the second-year receiver could hardly get an inch of separation. During team drills, Neal came down with an interception and ran it back for a touchdown.

 

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This season, Dane Jackson is the player many expect to take Wallace’s job. While Jackson is a promising young corner who fits in the locker room perfectly and has plenty of potential, Wallace is outperforming him through two days. Wallace has been more consistent. He doesn’t make as many splash plays as Jackson, but he also doesn’t make as many mistakes. Jackson had a pass break up on Thursday but also allowed multiple catches underneath and struggled during one-on-ones. This competition is far from settled, but Wallace has an edge.

 

Quote

Greg Rousseau didn’t play football last season, but he hasn’t looked out of place early in training camp. We’ll learn more about him when pads come on, but he forced an errant throw from Allen with pressure and also had a sack during team drills in practice. His height and length create a lot of problems for defenses. He, A.J. Epenesa and Basham have all taken advantage of Jerry Hughes’ current absence due to a calf injury.

 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Any chance of a summary?

-Micah Hyde smiling ear to ear over what the new guys (specifically Basham) are bringing up front, Boogie taking it to the house play of TC thus far;

 

-Rousseau constantly in the backfield, good sign for the defensive pressure that was lacking often last year beyond Hughes, and will make life for our LBs and DBs so much easier;


-Josh’s already infamous pass to Beasley, the video doesn’t do it justice, Josh had pressure in his face but still let the play develop and perfectly timed the throw which was of a superstar caliber between our all-pro safeties;

 

-“McKenzie is the best backup in the NFL”—would be starting anywhere else already; best part of his game is there is basically no transition time lost between time he catches to the time he starts running—he’s so fluid he catches without breaking his strides/progressions, and that’s a big leg up against defenders; a glue guy loved in the locker room, a low key leader 

 

-discuss Siran Neal, “a roster lock” bc of all the different hats he wears for the team, also stood out today; Jordan Poyer claims Neal is the best athlete he’s seen in his career(!)—the McKenzie of the D, Swiss Army knife;

 

-Trubisky came back to earth today, not bad, but when compared to JA, it was still noticeable the drop off; 

 

-Cody Ford has looked good, healthy, and has been playing consistently in his drills, good signs—but can’t tell us at which position exactly;

 

Dane Jackson hype although a somewhat down day in one on one drills.

 

There’s more in there but these were the main topics…

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Really wish they added someone who’s better than both Levi and Jackson.... actually a bit surprised they continue to have Levi opposite White.

The other CB spots are kinda like the RBs of the defense in that the Bills are not going to pay big money to one. They'll constantly draft guys and keep the competition going. Levi's really not that bad.

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1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

-Micah Hyde smiling ear to ear over what the new guys (specifically Basham) are bringing up front, Boogie taking it to the house play of TC thus far;

 

-Rousseau constantly in the backfield, good sign for the defensive pressure that was lacking often last year beyond Hughes, and will make life for our LBs and DBs so much easier;


-Josh’s already infamous pass to Beasley, the video doesn’t do it justice, Josh had pressure in his face but still let the play develop and perfectly timed the throw which was of a superstar caliber between our all-pro safeties;

 

-“McKenzie is the best backup in the NFL”—would be starting anywhere else already; best part of his game is there is basically no transition time lost between time he catches to the time he starts running—he’s so fluid he catches without breaking his strides/progressions, and that’s a big leg up against defenders; a glue guy loved in the locker room, a low key leader 

 

-discuss Siran Neal, “a roster lock” bc of all the different hats he wears for the team, also stood out today; Jordan Poyer claims Neal is the best athlete he’s seen in his career(!)—the McKenzie of the D, Swiss Army knife;

 

-Trubisky came back to earth today, not bad, but when compared to JA, it was still noticeable the drop off; 

 

-Cody Ford has looked good, healthy, and has been playing consistently in his drills, good signs—but can’t tell us at which position exactly;

 

Dane Jackson hype although a somewhat down day in one on one drills.

 

There’s more in there but these were the main topics…

 

Awesome, thanks a Ton!

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1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Really wish they added someone who’s better than both Levi and Jackson.... actually a bit surprised they continue to have Levi opposite White.

 

CB2 is not that an important position in this scheme. Wallace does what he is supposed to, play back to prevent big plays and tackle the receiver. The d-line was by far our biggest problem last year.

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1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

The other CB spots are kinda like the RBs of the defense in that the Bills are not going to pay big money to one. They'll constantly draft guys and keep the competition going. Levi's really not that bad.

We didn’t have to pay “big bucks”. We could’ve drafted one or signed one for 4M. That’s not big bucks.  
 

i really hope Dane can become a solid #2 corner.. I thought we’d add a Cb in FA or higher in the draft.  I’m assuming they didn’t because they love Dane and expect him to step up
 

Or maybe, by seasons end, Wildgoose can take his game to another level in the nfl with proper coaching and being a part of this culture.  This process.
 

Bottom line for me:  I hope that Levi isn’t cb2 in the AFCCG vs the chiefs. 

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53 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

CB2 is not that an important position in this scheme. Wallace does what he is supposed to, play back to prevent big plays and tackle the receiver. The d-line was by far our biggest problem last year.

the DLine was a bigger problem.  I agree.  That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look to upgrade the next biggest problem.  He’s slow and weak.  I don’t feel he’s an adequate cb2 for a team with serious super bowl aspirations.  Strictly zone corners are a liability in man.  We like to play man on 3rd down.  Do the math

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11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Diggs

Beasley 

Sanders 

Davis

McKenzie 

Kumerow 

 

That's going to be the 6 WRs.  And it's nasty.  So what happens to Hodgins and the others in this scenario?

 

 

How do you not keep the guy Rodgers is telling you is very good?  

I hear you with this list. Only that last spot seems up for debate.

 

I don't like leaving Hodgins exposed on the PS, as I think that guy is going to play in this league. Also, Stevenson's speed and return ability is intriguing (and lacking outside of McKenzie), but of course I understand the numbers game there. Those are the two I could see instead of Kumerow. 

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3 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

I hear you with this list. Only that last spot seems up for debate.

 

I don't like leaving Hodgins exposed on the PS, as I think that guy is going to play in this league. Also, Stevenson's speed and return ability is intriguing (and lacking outside of McKenzie), but of course I understand the numbers game there. Those are the two I could see instead of Kumerow. 

As of right now, I do not feel like the Bills have to worry about another team plucking Hodgins from our practice squad and signing him to their 53...he was taken at the bottom of the draft and has shown nothing on tape to date...of course he could impress in the preseason, but right now he has nothing to show...

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6 hours ago, NewEra said:

the DLine was a bigger problem.  I agree.  That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look to upgrade the next biggest problem.  He’s slow and weak.  I don’t feel he’s an adequate cb2 for a team with serious super bowl aspirations.  Strictly zone corners are a liability in man.  We like to play man on 3rd down.  Do the math

I think between Wallace, Jackson, Wildgoose, Hamlin and Griffin, Buffalo will see a player or two step up in our secondary. We must keep in mind that DB is McD’s specialty. Why spend a first on one when McD can get production out of guys drafted later in the draft?

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7 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I think between Wallace, Jackson, Wildgoose, Hamlin and Griffin, Buffalo will see a player or two step up in our secondary. We must keep in mind that DB is McD’s specialty. Why spend a first on one when McD can get production out of guys drafted later in the draft?

Because that’s fine about 85% of the time until you get into the playoffs and battle some of the elite pass offense. At which point it ain’t gonna cut it and you need somebody that can go out and change a game. Make a play. 

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7 hours ago, NewEra said:

the DLine was a bigger problem.  I agree.  That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look to upgrade the next biggest problem.  He’s slow and weak.  I don’t feel he’s an adequate cb2 for a team with serious super bowl aspirations.  Strictly zone corners are a liability in man.  We like to play man on 3rd down.  Do the math

 

Wallace didn't cost us in the playoffs. He was at the bottom of the list of reasons we lost to the Chiefs. McDermott doesn't need his CB2 to do a lot, it is never a position he is going to invest a lot in. There wasn't really anyone available to sign anyways. This board got really into the idea of Steven Nelson for some reason but he is just a marginal starter which is why he signed a modest deal.

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5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Wallace didn't cost us in the playoffs. He was at the bottom of the list of reasons we lost to the Chiefs. McDermott doesn't need his CB2 to do a lot, it is never a position he is going to invest a lot in. There wasn't really anyone available to sign anyways. This board got really into the idea of Steven Nelson for some reason but he is just a marginal starter which is why he signed a modest deal.

 

DL had a decent win rate all season, but that never seemed to translate to actual pressure, knockdowns, sacks etc..  Never more evident than the KC game.

 

But the biggest issue in the KC game was our defensive philosophy..

 

KC punched us in the mouth.  They bodied up, got physical with, and challenged the refs to call PI/holding every play against our banged up WR unit.

 

BUF, in turn, gave their receivers (and Kelce) free release - and, of course, with that free release and no pressure on Mahomes, it was simply too easy for KC.

 

Never once did I look back on that game and think ahhh if only we had a better CB2.

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