Spotrac: freeing up cap space for Bills

[BillsMafi$]

[BillsFan130]

Hoping John brown doesn’t get cut.

 

Would much prefer them signing him to an extension to free up a little room this year.

[Special K]

What about Star??

 

I wonder what the numbers are for a release or restructure on his contract.

[thurst44]

3 minutes ago, Special K said:

What about Star??

 

I wonder what the numbers are for a release or restructure on his contract.

Not sure of a restructure, but cutting him would cost more, and given how our D played in two seasons with him and this last season without him, I'd much rather they see if he returns and Oliver and Edmunds get a chance to make more plays. 

[Matt_In_NH]

19 minutes ago, Special K said:

What about Star??

 

I wonder what the numbers are for a release or restructure on his contract.

His contract sucks, not much to be done there.

[Rc2catch]

19 minutes ago, Special K said:

What about Star??

 

I wonder what the numbers are for a release or restructure on his contract.

I think they redid his deal last offseason expecting he could be cut this offseason. However the opt out kinda screwed the pooch on that idea. 

[costrovs]

Morse? Really? Cutting Brown makes a lot more sense than Morse.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, costrovs said:

Morse? Really? Cutting Brown makes a lot more sense than Morse.

Beane said Morse didn't fit the power run blocking scheme they moved to towards the end of the season. Morse is definitely in danger of being released. Brown is pretty much gone. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[costrovs]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Beane said Morse didn't fit the power run scheme they moved to towards the end of the season. Morse is definitely in danger of being released. 

I must've missed that. Still though, that's a huge hole to fill for $4.8M of salary. I don't think we're gonna find a similar center for less than $5M/year.

Power Run scheme or not, it doesn't help when both Moss and Singletary suck. lol

[BillsFanForever19]

This doesn't make much sense to me. All of those re-structure examples (including Diggs - who they quietly did some maintenance on his deal after being traded) have come on deals done within the year. Kind of a hard sell to come right back to those guys, don't you think? Guys like Hughes and Morse make way more sense for a restructure. 

[thurst44]

8 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think they redid his deal last offseason expecting he could be cut this offseason. However the opt out kinda screwed the pooch on that idea. 

Again, the defense was great two years in a row with Star, and meh his opt-out year. Yes, yes, I know correlation does not mean causation, but they improved 2018 over 2017 in many of the areas bringing in Star was supposed to help, so maybe we should stop trying so hard to run the guy out of town. 

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

This doesn't make much sense to me. All of those re-structure examples (including Diggs - who they quietly did some maintenance on his deal after being traded) have come on deals done within the year. Kind of a hard sell to come right back to those guys, don't you think? Guys like Hughes and Morse make way more sense for a restructure. 

I'm not going to pretend to know exactly how it works, but with new contracts, they can convert some of the money to bonus(?) and hence it's actually beneficial to the player b/c they get more guaranteed money paid out immediately and the team gets to save money against the cap (i think it pushes the cap into other years, which right now is ok b/c presumably there will be more space in future years). 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, costrovs said:

I must've missed that. Still though, that's a huge hole to fill for $4.8M of salary. I don't think we're gonna find a similar center for less than $5M/year.

Power Run scheme or not, it doesn't help when both Moss and Singletary suck. lol

"While McDermott wouldn’t say it had anything to do with Morse’s concussion history, Beane said after the season that it was a part of their consideration. Beane also said Morse wasn’t a perfect fit for the power- blocking scheme they used by the end of the season. On top of all that, the Bills chose to rest Feliciano during their Week 17 game. Morse went on to take every snap that day. Morse also struggled considerably in pass blocking during the playoffs, contributing to some of the offseason discussions about him."

 

https://theathletic.com/2382787/2021/02/12/buffalo-bills-jon-feliciano-mitch-morse-nfl-draft/

 

 

As for Moss and Singletary, I don't think it was them. I think it was scheme and the simple fact we really didn't try to run the football. Singletary's average dropped off a lot over an off season. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[IgotBILLStopay]

1 hour ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Why release Morse? He will easily fetch a 4th or even a 3rd in the trade market. Centers at 7mill per year dont grow on trees even in the shrinking cap 2021 situation.

Edited March 7, 2021 by IgotBILLStopay

[whatdrought]

46 minutes ago, Special K said:

What about Star??

 

I wonder what the numbers are for a release or restructure on his contract.

it’s something crazy like 11m if we cut him vs the 7m he’s owed if on the team.
 

A restructure just pushes that money down the road and I’m not sure that’s beneficial.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, BillsMafi$ said:

These sort of things can’t be looked at in a vacuum. The question is value and where any of these guy’s salaries fit in the league for players at their positions and production. I have to believe all of our no names on the defensive line have to be goners.

[costrovs]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

"While McDermott wouldn’t say it had anything to do with Morse’s concussion history, Beane said after the season that it was a part of their consideration. Beane also said Morse wasn’t a perfect fit for the power- blocking scheme they used by the end of the season. On top of all that, the Bills chose to rest Feliciano during their Week 17 game. Morse went on to take every snap that day. Morse also struggled considerably in pass blocking during the playoffs, contributing to some of the offseason discussions about him."

 

https://theathletic.com/2382787/2021/02/12/buffalo-bills-jon-feliciano-mitch-morse-nfl-draft/

 

 

As for Moss and Singletary, I don't think it was them. I think it was scheme and the simple fact we really didn't try to run the football. Singletary's average dropped off a lot over an off season. 

 

That explains why I missed it. Paywall.

Well damn, I didn't even realize any of that. That quote makes it sound like he's as good as gone then.

Stupid me....  I thought that Morse was only making 4.8M/year.  Salary - Dead cap = 4.8M in savings.

As for the running game, I think it's a mixture of everything. Run blocking/Moss+Singletary not being that great/Not running as much as we as fans thought they would.

 

 

 

[Putin]

38 minutes ago, costrovs said:

I must've missed that. Still though, that's a huge hole to fill for $4.8M of salary. I don't think we're gonna find a similar center for less than $5M/year.

Power Run scheme or not, it doesn't help when both Moss and Singletary suck. lol

I don’t think Singletary and Moss suck but our OL straggled in the running game , I hope that fixing the power running game won’t come with a cost of keeping our franchise upright 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Putin

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

it’s something crazy like 11m if we cut him vs the 7m he’s owed if on the team.
 

A restructure just pushes that money down the road and I’m not sure that’s beneficial.

 

 

He will consume at least $11.8M in cap space over the next two years even if they cut him today.

 

If they cut him post June 1 they can push some of that cap debt off to 2022 but then they will owe him more.........a total of $12.05M or $12.3M guaranteed because he's got $250K each in roster and workout bonuses that will have accrued during that time.

 

They are totally f*cked on the Star deal........it's a sunk cost even if he shows up for the offseason workouts at 250 pounds(I guess the rumor is he lost a lot of weight).

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

"While McDermott wouldn’t say it had anything to do with Morse’s concussion history, Beane said after the season that it was a part of their consideration. Beane also said Morse wasn’t a perfect fit for the power- blocking scheme they used by the end of the season. On top of all that, the Bills chose to rest Feliciano during their Week 17 game. Morse went on to take every snap that day. Morse also struggled considerably in pass blocking during the playoffs, contributing to some of the offseason discussions about him."

 

https://theathletic.com/2382787/2021/02/12/buffalo-bills-jon-feliciano-mitch-morse-nfl-draft/

 

 

As for Moss and Singletary, I don't think it was them. I think it was scheme and the simple fact we really didn't try to run the football. Singletary's average dropped off a lot over an off season. 

 

I listened to that post season presser and podcast from Beane and I believe Joe B. is substantively misquoting him.  What Beane said is that Morse is more of an athletic center and is never going to be the guy who shoves the nose tackle back 3 yards.  With the possible exception of Dawkins, that pretty much describes the Bills entire OL IMO.

 

Joe's other takes are puzzling - for example, there was no "end of the season" shift to a power-blocking scheme.  Cover1 showed that the transition occurred very early on in the season.  Like, pretty much with the exception of the KC game, by week 2.  If you haven't watched this, you should, and after you do, I think you'll question the idea that Morse was the problem with the run blocking.

 

I think some of these media guys like to get all "up in the tea leaves" with overinterpreting every move the Bills make.  For example, I believe Joe B and Matt Fairburn were beating the drum pretty loudly that Harrison Phillips and Murphy being "healthy scratch" for the KC and the Jets game meant the Bills were moving on and they'd be traded.  Well, maybe it meant something else - that Harry needed more recovery time from the ACL.  By the end of the season, he'd pretty well worked his way back to taking 50% of the snaps.

 

So they want to "read the tea leaves" of Feliciano being pulled halfway through the Miami game as being disfavor with Morse, but it could simply be that with Mongo nursing the pec and possibly other injuries, they wanted to get him more rest.

[Rc2catch]

42 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Again, the defense was great two years in a row with Star, and meh his opt-out year. Yes, yes, I know correlation does not mean causation, but they improved 2018 over 2017 in many of the areas bringing in Star was supposed to help, so maybe we should stop trying so hard to run the guy out of town. 

 

Ummmm ok not sure when I was running him out of town, but they structured his deal last year to have an easier out this year. 

[auburnbillsbacker]

Brown isn't overpaid and should likely be retained.  Surround Allen with as much talent as possible. DL is where you make cuts in my opinion.

[TPS]

54 minutes ago, costrovs said:

I must've missed that. Still though, that's a huge hole to fill for $4.8M of salary. I don't think we're gonna find a similar center for less than $5M/year.

Power Run scheme or not, it doesn't help when both Moss and Singletary suck. lol

There are a lot of other threads here where people suggest that Feliciano will be brought back to play C. Morse has the concussion issues as well. 

If the Bills go this route, I could see them designating Morse as a June 1 cut, which saves another $2.75 mil.  I think Addison would be good candidate here as well, saving another $2 mil.  All in all, those moves listed in the OP create over $60 mil in cap space. 

[thurst44]

6 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Ummmm ok not sure when I was running him out of town, but they structured his deal last year to have an easier out this year. 

Yeah, that wasn't really you but you were the easiest to quickly respond to, so to a degree I apologize for coming on hot. However, by saying that their inability to move on from him after a year due to the opt out was "screwing the pooch" and implies they want to move on from him. I'm not so sure that's the case given the two years he was in the center of the defense, they had the number 3 defense in the league. I doubt they consider him the fiasco a lot of people here (not necessarily you) seem to.   

[Putin]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

Hoping John brown doesn’t get cut.

 

Would much prefer them signing him to an extension to free up a little room this year.

I’m with you I like smoke and hope he’s back as long as injuries won’t be a concern moving forward , 

[Rc2catch]

2 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Yeah, that wasn't really you but you were the easiest to quickly respond to, so to a degree I apologize for coming on hot. However, by saying that their inability to move on from him after a year due to the opt out was "screwing the pooch" and implies they want to move on from him. I'm not so sure that's the case given the two years he was in the center of the defense, they had the number 3 defense in the league. I doubt they consider him the fiasco a lot of people here (not necessarily you) seem to.   

I don’t have a problem with him. I do think their plan was to pay him more last season expecting it to be his last here. Otherwise it didn’t make a ton of sense to rework his contract last offseason. They didn’t know or count on him opting out and his structure pushing a season. Either way he’s gonna be here this season there’s no way around that rather it’s good or bad we shall see. 

[Boxcar]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

This doesn't make much sense to me. All of those re-structure examples (including Diggs - who they quietly did some maintenance on his deal after being traded) have come on deals done within the year. Kind of a hard sell to come right back to those guys, don't you think? Guys like Hughes and Morse make way more sense for a restructure. 

Diggs wants to win. He was the only guy who stayed on the field to watch the Chiefs celebrate. I am pretty sure he is flexible when it comes to making the team better so long as he doesn't have to take a pay cut.

[Virgil]

Personally, I would extend Brown and free up money that way.  There’s no reason to break up our weapons.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Beane said Morse didn't fit the power run blocking scheme they moved to towards the end of the season. Morse is definitely in danger of being released. Brown is pretty much gone. 

 

The only thing with Morse is could restructure him and end up with almost as much cap saving and not have an open roster spot. But did hear the comments about him not fitting the scheme best.

 

Wil not be surprised if much of the guessing as to who is gone and who is re-signed is resolved by this time next weekend. 17th is getting close!

[Boxcar]

I feel like I'm missing a lot of something, because, while I love Mongo's personality and the fact that he's a decent guard, there is no way I'd want to cut, despite what people here want to believe, a very good C on a reasonable contract. I would keep Morse over Feliciano and it isn't close.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Beane said Morse didn't fit the power run blocking scheme they moved to towards the end of the season. Morse is definitely in danger of being released. Brown is pretty much gone. 

By the supposed power run blocking scheme standard, the entire O line would need to be cut, being in actuality we never had a power run game to speak of except for like maybe two games..., and those were not toward the end of the season,  😁 being we are a pass first team, and Morse is one of the league’s best pass blocking centers... just sayin, 👍

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Why release Morse? He will easily fetch a 4th or even a 3rd in the trade market. Centers at 7mill per year dont grow on trees even in the shrinking cap 2021 situation.

 

good point.  would rather trade him.  Any pick is better than straight up releasing.  I think the cap constraints just make it so hard this year.  Although perhaps we could get something from PIT since Pouncy retired?  

4 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

I feel like I'm missing a lot of something, because, while I love Mongo's personality and the fact that he's a decent guard, there is no way I'd want to cut, despite what people here want to believe, a very good C on a reasonable contract. I would keep Morse over Feliciano and it isn't close.

 

skill wise I think you keep Morse, but you would clearly need to draft a solid strong guard who can also play center given Morse injury history.  

[Boxcar]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

good point.  would rather trade him.  Any pick is better than straight up releasing.  I think the cap constraints just make it so hard this year.  Although perhaps we could get something from PIT since Pouncy retired?  

 

skill wise I think you keep Morse, but you would clearly need to draft a solid strong guard who can also play center given Morse injury history.  

I can agree with that. I love Matt Milano but if we can't keep him, I hope we can sign Williams and then grab a guy like Kirksey to replace Milano, where he and Klein have a kind of timeshare depending on passing and running downs, and then focus on the OL and DL which are both in need of something.

[costrovs]

39 minutes ago, Putin said:

I don’t think Singletary and Moss suck but our OL straggled in the running game , I hope that fixing the power running game won’t come with a cost of keeping our franchise upright 

 

They're not that bad, But not that good either. And I totally agree with you on the second part. From what I've read on these forums, It seems like most people are ok with letting Daryl Williams leave in the off season. He's our best RT we've had in 15+ years. And I'm sure that had a lot to do with keeping JA upright. 

Does anyone on here have any actual news regarding Daryl and the Bills other than just rumors? They're being pretty hush-hush about it. To me, that sounds like a deal is being made behind the scenes.

[Boxcar]

1 minute ago, costrovs said:

 

They're not that bad, But not that good either. And I totally agree with you on the second part. From what I've read on these forums, It seems like most people are ok with letting Daryl Williams leave in the off season. He's our best RT we've had in 15+ years. And I'm sure that had a lot to do with keeping JA upright. 

Does anyone on here have any actual news regarding Daryl and the Bills other than just rumors? They're being pretty hush-hush about it. To me, that sounds like a deal is being made behind the scenes.

Imo, I think the problem with Singletary and Moss is that they are basically the same player. The Cover 1 guys talk a lot about a guy like James White who I think would be a good contrast to Singletary or Moss, who both mostly run draws or slants. White is the type of guy who can receive passes or make runs to the outside which aren't the forte of either of our two backs.

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Personally, I would extend Brown and free up money that way.  There’s no reason to break up our weapons.

I can think of a couple reasons-  

 

Health.  If we had 2019 JB last season, I’d agree.  He was clearly not the WR we saw in 2019.  Watch the all-22 of the chiefs game and focus on how little separation he got the entire game.  He’ll be 31 in less than a month.  Imo, he wasn’t nearly the same player as 2019 and I’m not sure if he ever will be again.  I don’t think I t’s a good idea to get caught up in more gtd money that we might not be able to get out of.  
 

Opportunity for cheaper options-  Looking at our offense, we’re now finally in position to recruit good FA WRs to join us. A destination passing offense so to speak. Focusing on the WRs that thought they would get more $ than they were offered and stick around in free agency, I believe we can add 1 solid WR at a bargain 1 year deal as opposed to extending JB @ 7M+ per year.  
 

Solid late rd pick options.   Gabriel Davis was a 4th rd pick. Hodgins was a 6th.  I think we should select a Wr in every draft and there are several late round prospects in this draft that I believe can step in and produce a la Gabriel.

 

I’m a big JB fan....I just don’t think that we missed him when he was out and would be better off allocating his cap hit to OL, DL, CB or milanos replacement 

13 minutes ago, costrovs said:

 

They're not that bad, But not that good either. And I totally agree with you on the second part. From what I've read on these forums, It seems like most people are ok with letting Daryl Williams leave in the off season. He's our best RT we've had in 15+ years. And I'm sure that had a lot to do with keeping JA upright. 

Does anyone on here have any actual news regarding Daryl and the Bills other than just rumors? They're being pretty hush-hush about it. To me, that sounds like a deal is being made behind the scenes.

I think most here want Daryl back but realize that he may receive offers of 11-13M a year and that may be too rich for our current cap situation.

 

There’s no news being reported because that’s how McBeane prefers it. 

[costrovs]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I can think of a couple reasons-  

 

Health.  If we had 2019 JB last season, I’d agree.  He was clearly not the WR we saw in 2019.  Watch the all-22 of the chiefs game and focus on how little separation he got the entire game.  He’ll be 31 in less than a month.  Imo, he wasn’t nearly the same player as 2019 and I’m not sure if he ever will be again.  I don’t think I t’s a good idea to get caught up in more gtd money that we might not be able to get out of.  
 

Opportunity for cheaper options-  Looking at our offense, we’re now finally in position to recruit good FA WRs to join us. A destination passing offense so to speak. Focusing on the WRs that thought they would get more $ than they were offered and stick around in free agency, I believe we can add 1 solid WR at a bargain 1 year deal as opposed to extending JB @ 7M+ per year.  
 

Solid late rd pick options.   Gabriel Davis was a 4th rd pick. Hodgins was a 6th.  I think we should select a Wr in every draft and there are several late round prospects in this draft that I believe can step in and produce a la Gabriel.

 

I’m a big JB fan....I just don’t think that we missed him when he was out and would be better off allocating his cap hit to OL, DL, CB or milanos replacement 

 

I think most here want Daryl back but realize that he may receive offers of 11-13M a year and that may be too rich for our current cap situation.

 

There’s no news being reported because that’s how McBeane prefers it. 

 

This is pretty much exactly how I see it also.

(not sure if you'll agree, but it makes perfect sense to me.)

 

Cut JB = save $8M

Gabriel Davis takes over for JB.

Allocate that $8M to extend Daryl Williams.

Addition by subtraction.

 

GD will only get better as time goes on, and we'll lock in our RT for the next 3+ years. Keeping JA upright for the foreseeable future.

 

No news is good news! And I like it!

[Virgil]

36 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I can think of a couple reasons-  

 

Health.  If we had 2019 JB last season, I’d agree.  He was clearly not the WR we saw in 2019.  Watch the all-22 of the chiefs game and focus on how little separation he got the entire game.  He’ll be 31 in less than a month.  Imo, he wasn’t nearly the same player as 2019 and I’m not sure if he ever will be again.  I don’t think I t’s a good idea to get caught up in more gtd money that we might not be able to get out of.  
 

Opportunity for cheaper options-  Looking at our offense, we’re now finally in position to recruit good FA WRs to join us. A destination passing offense so to speak. Focusing on the WRs that thought they would get more $ than they were offered and stick around in free agency, I believe we can add 1 solid WR at a bargain 1 year deal as opposed to extending JB @ 7M+ per year.  
 

Solid late rd pick options.   Gabriel Davis was a 4th rd pick. Hodgins was a 6th.  I think we should select a Wr in every draft and there are several late round prospects in this draft that I believe can step in and produce a la Gabriel.

 

I’m a big JB fan....I just don’t think that we missed him when he was out and would be better off allocating his cap hit to OL, DL, CB or milanos replacement 

I think most here want Daryl back but realize that he may receive offers of 11-13M a year and that may be too rich for our current cap situation.

Hear me out Butt Stuff,

 

Yes, he got it injured this past year, but he’s still relatively cheap and think we could restructure him lower and get 2-3 more years out of him.  I don’t know that his being a step off when he returned wasn’t due to his injury.  He’s overall not shown durability issues before. 
 

However, I can’t say I researched that at all 😀

[BuffaloRebound]

Brown has 24th highest cap for a WR.  Before Diggs arrived, he was a low end #1 WR and the contract made sense.  Now he’s a 2 at best and Davis showed he’s ready for a bigger role.  I’d be pretty surprised if he’s back without a re-structure.  

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Hear me out Butt Stuff,

 

Yes, he got it injured this past year, but he’s still relatively cheap and think we could restructure him lower and get 2-3 more years out of him.  I don’t know that his being a step off when he returned wasn’t due to his injury.  He’s overall not shown durability issues before. 
 

However, I can’t say I researched that at all 😀

I hear ya.  I’d love to have him back if he were making 4-5M a year, but it all comes back to salary cap for me. I just don’t think he’d sign an extension for 4-5M.  Considering the talent we can sign/draft at WR (with resources MUCH less than the 7-8M he’ll likely cost), I don’t think he’s worth it and I’d rather apply that cap space to other needs.  
 

If he would have gotten separation vs KC in the AFCCG, maybe I’d be singing a different tune, but I watched the game in depth in his performance really disappointed me.  Our offense didn’t seem to miss him when he was out.  He seems like a really expensive depth player and I feel the biggest defense for keeping him is that Josh Allen loves him

[costrovs]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

There are a lot of other threads here where people suggest that Feliciano will be brought back to play C. Morse has the concussion issues as well. 

If the Bills go this route, I could see them designating Morse as a June 1 cut, which saves another $2.75 mil.  I think Addison would be good candidate here as well, saving another $2 mil.  All in all, those moves listed in the OP create over $60 mil in cap space. 

 

Idk, i just don't see it. Cutting a very good center just to save $4.8M? That seems like a really stupid move TBH.

 

Spotrac along with overthecap cover all sports, they just punched in some numbers and came up with 60M savings. Not realizing that some of it makes 0 sense, and just isn't going to happen. Although the savings would be nice.

 

Restructure Diggs? like @BillsFanForever19 said, I do remember hearing about something earlier in the year with his contract.

Restructure White? C'mon! He just signed his contract in September. Him, his Attorney, the Bills FO all knew about the potentially lower salary cap this year. So any type of savings that we'd get, is already factored in.

 

Cut John Brown? This one makes the most sense to me. Doable, and we have his replacement in GD.

Cut Butler, Jefferson, Addison? Go right ahead, they're all replaceable with similar if not better players.

Cut Morse? Stupid idea. top 10 center, only to save $4.8M.

 

This isn't a stab at you, or the OP. It's more of a stab at Spotrac. 'Let's publish this list because it'll save the Bills $60M'