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Ike Boettger - went undrafted

dave mcbride

By dave mcbride
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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

It seems like the Bills got serious value because he was injured (achilles) for his final season at Iowa. I was unaware. He seems to have evolved into a reasonably solid NFL starter, and he is both cheap and under control. https://nflmocks.com/2018/05/10/buffalo-bills-get-udfa-steal-ot-ike-boettger-iowa/

 

I may misunderstand, but what do you mean when you say "under control"?

 

He's a FA which means the Bills have a right to tender him.  But as an UDFA, his "original round tender" is pretty meaningless as a deterrent to other teams.

 

The choices are 1st round, 2nd round, or original round

Cost is of yet unclear, but last year first-round $4,667,000; second-round tenders $3,278,000; original-round tenders $2,144,000

 

He's either not under control, or we offer him at least $2M.  Thoughts?

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dave mcbride Hall of Famer

dave mcbride

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43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I may misunderstand, but what do you mean when you say "under control"?

 

He's a FA which means the Bills have a right to tender him.  But as an UDFA, his "original round tender" is pretty meaningless as a deterrent to other teams.

 

The choices are 1st round, 2nd round, or original round

Cost is of yet unclear, but last year first-round $4,667,000; second-round tenders $3,278,000; original-round tenders $2,144,000

 

He's either not under control, or we offer him at least $2M.  Thoughts?

By “under control” I mean he’s a guy for which the Bills have the final say and for which the system allocates a relatively small salary.  I did not say that he was under contract. (It’s akin to MLB’s rules regarding players’ first six years in an organization — they are considered “under control” regardless of contract status).  They do not have final say on players not under team control unless they want to franchise them. Fwiw, I regard $3 million—if it comes to that— for a decent starter a bargain. Of course, the Bills have to believe he’s worth that. But $2 million? Sure, sign me up for that.

 

PS - as I think about it, if the Bills think he’s truly starting quality, I believe they should probably consider offering him a 3-4 year contract now. It won’t be that much, relatively speaking. Again, the caveat is the Bills’ opinion of him. That I don’t know, but if PFF is any guide, he grades out as a solid starter. 

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Paup 1995MVP Veteran

Paup 1995MVP

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I may misunderstand, but what do you mean when you say "under control"?

 

He's a FA which means the Bills have a right to tender him.  But as an UDFA, his "original round tender" is pretty meaningless as a deterrent to other teams.

 

The choices are 1st round, 2nd round, or original round

Cost is of yet unclear, but last year first-round $4,667,000; second-round tenders $3,278,000; original-round tenders $2,144,000

 

He's either not under control, or we offer him at least $2M.  Thoughts?

I am a big Ike fan.  Iowa and Wisconsin know how to develop O lineman.  Guy is solid with a ceiling of being a good to very good NFL player.  I would resign Feliciano and move him to fulltime starting center.  Play Boettger and Ford at Guards.  Resign Darryl Williams at RT and try and trade Mitch Morse.  Morse is not worth the money we are paying him.  

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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1 hour ago, Just Joshin' said:

I guess I am in the minority - I thought he was average at best, more below average.  Maybe he will continue to improve but this is an area to upgrade in the draft.

 

I think he was average to slightly above average and was an upgrade on Ford and Winters and his pass pro was the best the Bills got out of any of their guards this year. I agree, however, that interior oline is an area that needs upgrading. I think Ike and Feliciano would likely rank somewhere around the 20th-25th best guard combo in the league. You are going to need better than that. I still think Ford's ceiling is the highest of the 4 guys they used but he is the one who needs to develop to be considered a potential starter in 2021 IMO. If all the guys are back I'd start Ike and Mongo unless Ford wows me in camp.

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Bill from NYC Hall of Famer

Bill from NYC

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5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Honestly think he played better than Ford....and def better than Winters..... reasons I don’t want them using high draft picks on offensive guards unless they are absolutely studs. 

Agreed. Interestingly, first round picks on guards historically seem to have a lower bust rate than many other positions. This is probably due to what you mentioned above imo.

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Don Otreply All Pro

Don Otreply

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6 hours ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

Is he strong?

Can he run block....

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Punching Bag Hall of Famer

Punching Bag

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3 hours ago, TN Bills Fan said:

Beane also traded Wyatt Teller.  Let's not get too gaga.

 

He had much potential. A lot of players do.  He stated his 7 last games because needed.

Maybe he needed more time, but lots of players do but do not improve.

Maybe he needed better coaching or scheme he got with Browns.

Maybe he had to get experience playing but at time he was not playing as well as players ahead of him to be named starter.

Jon Feliciano, Quitting Spain and Spencer Long had played better in preseason at time when he was traded.

 

Maybe if Quitting Spain had not came into shape in shape and ready for fight for position in 2020 after getting a new contract it would not look as bad of a trade.

Bills seemed to do well with picks for him.

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Bob in STL Veteran

Bob in STL

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11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Honestly think he played better than Ford....and def better than Winters..... reasons I don’t want them using high draft picks on offensive guards unless they are absolutely studs. 

Like most UDFAs, he is a backup player or spot starter.  There are reasons we can’t run the ball well and he is one of them.  

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Aussie Joe All Pro

Aussie Joe

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51 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What does this make Ford? Or even Feliciano? 
 

 

 

 

Ford would want to improve this year and we aren’t 100% sure that Mongo is back...

 

Prepare yourself for an early pick in the draft at Guard to go along with that other early draft pick you are sweating on to replace Milano .

 

Lets throw in a CB for the third round and you have got your dream trifecta for exciting early picks...

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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5 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Like most UDFAs, he is a backup player or spot starter.  There are reasons we can’t run the ball well and he is one of them.  

 

I mean I agree he isn't the best run blocker.... but he is better at it than our highly paid center and, other than our highly paid center, he is our best interior pass blocker. The Bills have to answer a priority question with the interior of their oline. Do they prioritise protecting Josh, or do they prioritise reviving the run game. If the former they let Feliciano walk and Ike is pencilled in as a starter. If the latter they cut Mitch Morse, start Feliciano at center and look for two guards. 

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blacklabel Veteran

blacklabel

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I don't think we'll see as many changes to the OL as some people are suggesting. 

 

I see a lot of "they're gonna cut Morse." I don't think he played that bad. I think some of his play could've been affected by having different guys on his right and left for some games. I don't think he goes anywhere. I think they see him as an anchor and leader on that OL and he's a smart dude who's helped Josh understand protections and all that stuff. I also don't think Feliciano was any better when he stepped in at center.

 

Speaking of him, I'm certain the injury he had affected his play at times this year. He struggled at times but other times he was solid. He's a leader and a player that teammates gravitate towards. I think he stays right where he's been on the right side. 

 

Seems a lot of people are done with Cody Ford. I'm not and neither are the Bills. He's gonna get a chance to take that left guard spot and it'll come down to him and Boettger. 

 

I do hope they make a real effort to re-sign Daryl Williams. He finally solidified the right tackle spot after they've had issues finding a solid starter over there. I'm betting that they hope Trey Adams can turn into something (he was once viewed as a high round prospect) but I wouldn't bank on that. According to the camp reports last year the dude was getting whooped constantly. He was on everyone's cut list except Beane's so they must see something they can develop. 

 

I think most of the changes will come in finding better depth. Brian Winters certainly isn't the worst you can do but you can definitely do a lot better. 

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Beerball Hall of Famer

Beerball

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21 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Honestly think he played better than Ford....and def better than Winters..... reasons I don’t want them using high draft picks on offensive guards unless they are absolutely studs. 

Are you ok with choosing d-linemen with a high pick if they aren't studs? LB? and on and on and on and on

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Over 29 years of fanhood Hall of Famer

Over 29 years of fanhood

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16 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I don't think we'll see as many changes to the OL as some people are suggesting. 

 

I see a lot of "they're gonna cut Morse." I don't think he played that bad. I think some of his play could've been affected by having different guys on his right and left for some games. I don't think he goes anywhere. I think they see him as an anchor and leader on that OL and he's a smart dude who's helped Josh understand protections and all that stuff. I also don't think Feliciano was any better when he stepped in at center.

 

Speaking of him, I'm certain the injury he had affected his play at times this year. He struggled at times but other times he was solid. He's a leader and a player that teammates gravitate towards. I think he stays right where he's been on the right side. 

 

Seems a lot of people are done with Cody Ford. I'm not and neither are the Bills. He's gonna get a chance to take that left guard spot and it'll come down to him and Boettger. 

 

I do hope they make a real effort to re-sign Daryl Williams. He finally solidified the right tackle spot after they've had issues finding a solid starter over there. I'm betting that they hope Trey Adams can turn into something (he was once viewed as a high round prospect) but I wouldn't bank on that. According to the camp reports last year the dude was getting whooped constantly. He was on everyone's cut list except Beane's so they must see something they can develop. 

 

I think most of the changes will come in finding better depth. Brian Winters certainly isn't the worst you can do but you can definitely do a lot better. 

I’m with you on Ford. He was considered an exceptional RT coming out. Extremely athletic tackle who might have to move to guard if he doesn’t get his footwork down. 
 

he’s got to be one of the best 5.

 

And while I get the Mongo love, he’s a better run blocker than pass blocker and really was a turnstile vs chiefs. 

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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25 minutes ago, Beerball said:

Are you ok with choosing d-linemen with a high pick if they aren't studs? LB? and on and on and on and on

 

Hahaha. I think what he meant is there is a higher standard for taking a guard or off the ball linebacker early than there is for taking say a defensive end or an offensive tackle. Like generally a guard in the top half of round 1 is madness... but Zack Martin or Quenton Nelson? Yes they are worth it. 

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m with you on Ford. He was considered an exceptional RT coming out. Extremely athletic tackle who might have to move to guard if he doesn’t get his footwork down. 
 

he’s got to be one of the best 5.

 

And while I get the Mongo love, he’s a better run blocker than pass blocker and really was a turnstile vs chiefs. 

 

I say this is a guy that liked Cody coming out, I had a borderline 1st round grade on him.... but as to the bolded..... he has to start playing like that. I don't think he was one of the best 5 linemen to see significant time for the Bills in 2019 and he wasn't in 2020 either. If he is one of the best 5 he will start.... but it is year 3. He has to step up and do it now. 

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

David Decastro and Quenton Nelson would disagree with you

 

Decastro went later in round 1 (mid 20s from memory). I still think that was a little high for Decastro who has been a solid top 10 guard but not special. Nelson meets the "absolute stud" definition. 

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Ethan in Cleveland All Pro

Ethan in Cleveland

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2 hours ago, blacklabel said:

I don't think we'll see as many changes to the OL as some people are suggesting. 

 

I see a lot of "they're gonna cut Morse." I don't think he played that bad. I think some of his play could've been affected by having different guys on his right and left for some games. I don't think he goes anywhere. I think they see him as an anchor and leader on that OL and he's a smart dude who's helped Josh understand protections and all that stuff. I also don't think Feliciano was any better when he stepped in at center.

 

Speaking of him, I'm certain the injury he had affected his play at times this year. He struggled at times but other times he was solid. He's a leader and a player that teammates gravitate towards. I think he stays right where he's been on the right side. 

 

Seems a lot of people are done with Cody Ford. I'm not and neither are the Bills. He's gonna get a chance to take that left guard spot and it'll come down to him and Boettger. 

 

I do hope they make a real effort to re-sign Daryl Williams. He finally solidified the right tackle spot after they've had issues finding a solid starter over there. I'm betting that they hope Trey Adams can turn into something (he was once viewed as a high round prospect) but I wouldn't bank on that. According to the camp reports last year the dude was getting whooped constantly. He was on everyone's cut list except Beane's so they must see something they can develop. 

 

I think most of the changes will come in finding better depth. Brian Winters certainly isn't the worst you can do but you can definitely do a lot better. 

I’m not done with Ford but I am ready to move on from Morse. He was a healthy scratch after clearing concussion protocol. He is a below average center paid like a top 3 guy. Pay cut or cut him. I would not draft a guard this year if the bring back Boettger. I want to draft a true center. Cut Morse bring back Feliciano,Williams, and Boettger.

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Ethan in Cleveland All Pro

Ethan in Cleveland

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Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Decastro went later in round 1 (mid 20s from memory). I still think that was a little high for Decastro who has been a solid top 10 guard but not special. Nelson meets the "absolute stud" definition. 

Decastro was injured his first year against the Bills and other than that he has been to the ProBowl six straight years and named All-Pro twice. He would easily be the best lineman on the Bills team. Nelson I agree is on a HOF trajectory if he stays healthy.

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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Just now, Ethan in Portland said:

Decastro was injured his first year against the Bills and other than that he has been to the ProBowl six straight years and named All-Pro twice. He would easily be the best lineman on the Bills team. Nelson I agree is on a HOF trajectory if he stays healthy.

 

DeCastro has been a fine player, no doubt. And agree he'd easily be the best guard on the Bills. Even knowing the career he has had would I take him at #25...  50/50.

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