Source: LB Matt Milano looking for “top dollar” in FA

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Why let him test FA? Cut Addison, Quentin Jefferson, Vernon Butler and John Brown. That's nearly $40 million in cap space and actually goes over when you count the final cap figure. That's your Matt Milano and JJ Watt money right there. If the contracts are structured right, they can still have $15-20 million in cap space. 

No, it’s not.  Take into account dead cap.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense.

 

There are not that many cover LBs as good as Milano in the league period, much less third round and below. Which is the very reason he seems likely to get big money.

 

This is a money-related decision. If COVID hadn't nose-dived the cap, we would have kept him, and it's still possible we might. It'll hurt the team to lose him, but cap constraints force teams to try to find the least bad way to distribute scarce funds. Milano may end up leaving, but Beane already said that they want him and they've told Milano that. They want him because they're a lot better with him on the field. But the cap limit isn't a voluntary thing.  If he goes, it'll reduce the effectiveness of this D.

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

First, no, that's not nearly $40 million. You're leaving out dead cap entirely. 

 

Second, if they cut three DLs, they will only have to bring in another one or two in FA to replace the ones they don't replace in the draft in the first two rounds or so, and that will chew up money.

 

And third, there are presently about 40 - 45 guys on the roster who stand a chance of being on the final 53. We will have to spend more money on guys like a #2 QB whether it's Barkley or not, on a punter whether it's Bojo or not and on and on. 

 

And fourth, our draft class will cost about $6 to $7 mill.

 

There seem to be about 50 posts saying this same thing each day - just cut the same list of guys and we'll be swimming in it - as if it's a new idea or makes sense. And it's just not true. They've got cap troubles. They will absolutely cut and/or re-negotiate most of those guys you mentioned, but when they do so, their troubles will not be over.

I agree with all of this.  
 

what confuses me though,  not regarding your posts, but rather what I see on the field:  where was Milano in coverage vs KC?  Scheme problem I assume?  My only recollection of him the entire game, was blitzing and coming up short.

 

I agree, he’s one of the better coverage LBs in the game....but where a was he in the AFCCG?  I certainly didn’t see him make his presence felt 

[SoCal Deek]

You make him a nice offer to stay, but if he wants big money let him walk. I have no doubt some team will overpay for him. While Matt is a decent LB he’s far from a transformational one. Easily replaceable with a draft pick who isn’t injured half the season. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[TheBeaneBandit]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense.

 

There are not that many cover LBs as good as Milano in the league period, much less third round and below. Which is the very reason he seems likely to get big money.

 

This is a money-related decision. If COVID hadn't nose-dived the cap, we would have kept him, and it's still possible we might. It'll hurt the team to lose him, but cap constraints force teams to try to find the least bad way to distribute scarce funds. Milano may end up leaving, but Beane already said that they want him and they've told Milano that. They want him because they're a lot better with him on the field. But the cap limit isn't a voluntary thing.  If he goes, it'll reduce the effectiveness of this D.

While I do agree, I would rather put that money towards the Dline, which would affect the QB more, thus get by with a lesser player at LB if need be.

[Thurman#1]

35 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You make him a nice offer to stay, but if he wants big money let him walk. I have no doubt some team will overpay for him. While Matt is a decent LB he’s far from a transformational one. Easily replaceable with a draft pick who isn’t injured half the season. 

 

 

He's not a transformational one? And yet the team was transformed when he came back, they really were. Transformational is exactly the right word to highlight what Matt Milano does for this team. He makes the whole defense a lot better. Transformational, precisely. Now, is he a Khalil Mack, a Von Miller or a Za'Darius Smith? No.

But he's transformational.

 

And the idea that he's easily replaceable is ridiculous.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Why let him test FA? Cut Addison, Quentin Jefferson, Vernon Butler and John Brown. That's nearly $40 million in cap space and actually goes over when you count the final cap figure. That's your Matt Milano and JJ Watt money right there. If the contracts are structured right, they can still have $15-20 million in cap space. 

 

Where are you getting your calculation of $40M in cap space? 

 

If you use a site like "Overthecap" or "spotrack", You need to look at the cap savings in pink on the far right - not the total cap figure.  There is an error in Q Jefferson's contract.

 

When I do this for the 4 players you mention, I get a figure of $27M, not $40M

 

Please remember that if you cut a DE, 2 DL, and a WR and sign a DE, you have three holes to fill, which will also cost cap.  Those guys were on the team because they filled a need of a team that won 15 games last season, not just for shucks and giggles.

 

Then there is free agency....in addition to Matt Milano, free agents the Bills may wish to retain include (grouped by position)

Jon Feliciano

Daryl Williams
Ike Boettger (RFA)

 

Isaiah McKenzie

 

Dean Marlowe

Levi Wallace (RFA)

 

Corey Bojorquez

Andre Roberts

Andre Smith (RFA)

Taiwan Jones

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense.

 

There are not that many cover LBs as good as Milano in the league period, much less third round and below. Which is the very reason he seems likely to get big money.

 

This is a money-related decision. If COVID hadn't nose-dived the cap, we would have kept him, and it's still possible we might. It'll hurt the team to lose him, but cap constraints force teams to try to find the least bad way to distribute scarce funds. Milano may end up leaving, but Beane already said that they want him and they've told Milano that. They want him because they're a lot better with him on the field. But the cap limit isn't a voluntary thing.  If he goes, it'll reduce the effectiveness of this D.

I agree that he’s valuable and in an ideal cap year he’s a priority. But there are very good coverage LBs in the draft. Jabril Cox, Baron Browning, the kid from ND whose name I won’t attempt, Pete Werner, etc to name a few 

Edited February 20, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[Thurman#1]

15 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

While I do agree, I would rather put that money towards the Dline, which would affect the QB more, thus get by with a lesser player at LB if need be.

 

I want us to draft a pass rusher, myself. Or bring in one. Other than that, Matt Milano would be my #1 priority.

 

But fair enough that people have different priorities. We're going to be sacrificing players we would rather not. That's the way it is.

[TheBeaneBandit]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

I want us to draft a pass rusher, myself. Or bring in one. Other than that, Matt Milano would be my #1 priority.

 

But fair enough that people have different priorities. We're going to be sacrificing players we would rather not. That's the way it is.

Believe me, it's not that I don't like him. But like you said different priorities. I personally have non pass rushing LBers further down my list than others but if there was a way to keep Matt, trust me I'm on board. I just don't see it right now with DE, 1tech, retaining D Williams, CB, OG, RB, and TE all also on the "to do" list as well.

[Thurman#1]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I agree that he’s valuable and in an ideal cap year he’s a priority. But there are very good coverage LBs in the draft. Jabril Cox, Baron Browning, the kid from ND whose name I won’t attempt, Pete Werner, etc to name a few 

 

 

Fair enough. Some of those guys will probably work out. Not all of the ones that do, though, will be as good as Matt Milano.

 

The guy I was replying to said we could easily replace him in the 3rd. Will Jabril Cox be in the 3rd where we pick? Bron Browning? And for the ones who will be available, will they be as good as Milano, or close? If we're lucky, there may be one guy who would satisfy the rules Beane Bandit laid down, "you find guys like him in the 3rd round every year for way less money." You don't. If you're very lucky, there's one.

 

And he's not likely to make the difference early that Milano made this year when he was in.

 

You hit the button on the nose, though, when you say, "in an ideal cap year..." Yeah, again, we're going to lose guys we'd rather keep, and not be able to bring in guys we'd like to bring in.

 

IMO losing Milano would hurt. A lot.

[BuffaloRebound]

The fact that Beane is giving up this early on signing Milano hopefully points to plans to bring in somebody on defense he thinks will have a greater impact than Milano.  If it’s Kirksey and shuffling the deck on the D Line, I think most will be unhappy.  If a difference maker is brought in on the D-Line, I think most will understand letting Milano walk. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

The fact that Beane is giving up this early on signing Milano hopefully points to plans to bring in somebody on defense he thinks will have a greater impact than Milano.  If it’s Kirksey and shuffling the deck on the D Line, I think most will be unhappy.  If a difference maker is brought in on the D-Line, I think most will understand letting Milano walk. 

 

Keep in mind that Beane has free agency issues in other areas of the team, most notably OL but also ST.  So "giving up on Milano" may be a sign that Beane's priorities are elsewhere.

 

Keep in mind that, while people like to quote the 12-1 record when Milano played, they typically don't mention how many snaps he played.

This is Milano's snap count from this past season:

 

In 2019 Milano played 100% of the snaps in every game except one in which he went out injured, and the final, meaningless game; he also played 30-40% ST snaps.

 

I disagree with people who think Milano is JAG.  I think he's a difference maker and will be a serious loss to the team.  But the fact is, we had to learn how to live without him this past season as he missed 6 games and only played (or could have played) the majority of the snaps in 4 of the 10 games he played in.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Keep in mind that Beane has free agency issues in other areas of the team, most notably OL but also ST.  So "giving up on Milano" may be a sign that Beane's priorities are elsewhere.

 

Keep in mind that, while people like to quote the 12-1 record when Milano played, they typically don't mention how many snaps he played.

This is Milano's snap count from this past season:

 

In 2019 Milano played 100% of the snaps in every game except one in which he went out injured, and the final, meaningless game; he also played 30-40% ST snaps.

 

I disagree with people who think Milano is JAG.  I think he's a difference maker and will be a serious loss to the team.  But the fact is, we had to learn how to live without him this past season as he missed 6 games and only played (or could have played) the majority of the snaps in 4 of the 10 games he played in.

 

 

And the defense did begin to turn around without him. 

 

He's a huge part of the Bills defense but it's a position we can fill rather easily if the Bills want to spend on the position this offseason. I'm not sure what type of resources Beane and McDermott want to spend replacing Milano. If they choose to spend a high draft pick or decent amount of cap space then replacing his production won't be difficult. IMO I would try to sign a cheaper veteran and spend assets on DL and CB on defense. See if we can make it work. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[SCBills]

Milano makes sense on a team not paying a QB anytime soon.   One that has the cap space to load up on talent everywhere and wants to pay an above average, though not elite, linebacker.  

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

He's not a transformational one? And yet the team was transformed when he came back, they really were. Transformational is exactly the right word to highlight what Matt Milano does for this team. He makes the whole defense a lot better. Transformational, precisely. Now, is he a Khalil Mack, a Von Miller or a Za'Darius Smith? No.

But he's transformational.

 

And the idea that he's easily replaceable is ridiculous.

Well we’ll just disagree then. He plays decent in pass coverage in McDs defense but isn’t a big asset against the run or in rushing the passer. I really like Milano but I’m not breaking the bank to build my defense around his talents. This is of course all just hypothetical blather since we have no idea what he’d be offered to leave. What’s something worth? Answer: What somebody is willing to pay for it. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[pigpen65]

Milano is a big loss without a doubt. He is a difference maker. Depressing to lose him because, like Shaq and Phillips, there's no amount of sugar coating that can get around the fact that when you lose play makers on defense the defense gets worse.  

[hondo in seattle]

Milano is a bit of a mystery to me.  When I watched him play, he seemed like a good LB, certainly not a great one.  

 

Yet the stats clearly show - and my eyeballs agree - the Bills are a much better D when he plays than when he doesn't. 

 

Not entirely understanding why this is true, but respecting the fact of the matter, I'm not happy that he's going to 'test' free agency and probably wear a different uni next year.   This is very bad news for Bills fans everywhere.  

[RichRiderBills]

I don't think Milano is a big loss.

 

He's a solid playmaking coverage LB, undersized. He's a good player, but guys like him are not who you break the bank for.  Teams that have broken the bank for his type of player/position almost have always regretted it. I would not bet my life on him getting the giant contract he hopes. A 6'0 225 pound OLB does not fit into most defenses in the NFL...maybe more than past years, but still not many.

 

The proof is in the season; we looked ok without him when they settled in, especially when Klein had a few games under his belt to get acclimated. Our woes when Milano was gone early had just as much to do with the lack of stout guys in the front. We fill more depth there w/ scheme fit guys and we will be ok. I'm more worried about who is playing in front, and who we get in the LORAX role.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by RichRiderBills

[Buffalo03]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where are you getting your calculation of $40M in cap space? 

 

If you use a site like "Overthecap" or "spotrack", You need to look at the cap savings in pink on the far right - not the total cap figure.  There is an error in Q Jefferson's contract.

 

When I do this for the 4 players you mention, I get a figure of $27M, not $40M

 

Please remember that if you cut a DE, 2 DL, and a WR and sign a DE, you have three holes to fill, which will also cost cap.  Those guys were on the team because they filled a need of a team that won 15 games last season, not just for shucks and giggles.

 

Then there is free agency....in addition to Matt Milano, free agents the Bills may wish to retain include (grouped by position)

Jon Feliciano

Daryl Williams
Ike Boettger (RFA)

 

Isaiah McKenzie

 

Dean Marlowe

Levi Wallace (RFA)

 

Corey Bojorquez

Andre Roberts

Andre Smith (RFA)

Taiwan Jones

I was counting the cap figures from their actual cap hits. Those guys all count anywhere from $8 million to $10 million in cap space. John Brown has a $9 million dollar cap hit, Addison is $10 million. I think Butler was around $8 million and Jefferson around $9 also. That's roughly $36 million on the cap. 

[Buffalo03]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

No, it’s not.  Take into account dead cap.  

I didn't think dead cap counted on Salary cap space. Isn't that money that's already been paid out to the player? 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I didn't think dead cap counted on Salary cap space. Isn't that money that's already been paid out to the player? 

Dead cap goes against the cap because it’s money that they’ve already paid out. 

[RichRiderBills]

Dead cap is a hit to the cap we cannot mitigate, even by trading the player. It occurs for a few reasons, but yes, mostly signing bonuses that were frontloaded. 

 

Example: John Brown's salary is somewhere around 8 million but he has a cap hit of 10 million, (this is a "dead" cap hot of 2 million from bonuses, then the cap hit from the 8 million salary) Cutting or trading John saves the 8 million salary, but not the dead cap hit. Dead hits can still hit a few years after a player leaves, as signing bonuses are factored over the life of the deal, averaged per year of the contract.

 

Retired players can have dead cap hits too for signing bonus money. For example, if Star retires....he'll hit us nearly 10 million in dead cap I believe. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by RichRiderBills

[jahnyc]

I don't think we have a replacement for Milano on the roster and I would not expect a rookie to be able to fill that role, even if he is a pick in the first or second round.  With our salary cap constraints, I also doubt that we will be able to sign an equivalent replacement.  I understand the concern with Milano's history of injuries, but he is one of the few players on defense that seems to make plays, including providing  pressure on the QB when blitzing or causing a turnover.  I think his mix of abilities will be hard to replace, and I don't really see Edmunds with the same abilities or instincts.

[Saint Doug]

17 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I find it interesting  that Beane says Milano “ earned the right to test FA” .. correct me if I’m wrong but similar comments were made about Lawson & Phillips last year and they moved on...

 

Since last year we have had Tre and Dion “ earn the right to get a nice contract extension and not have to test FA”...

 

Yep, “earned the right...” is a euphemism for we’re going to only offer a set price, we are not getting into a bidding war, and he’s likely to move on. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, pigpen65 said:

Milano is a big loss without a doubt. He is a difference maker. Depressing to lose him because, like Shaq and Phillips, there's no amount of sugar coating that can get around the fact that when you lose play makers on defense the defense gets worse.  

Need to hit in the draft a bit better during the early rounds.  
 

I can’t fault them too much on Jordan Phillips, because who could’ve foreseen COVID and Star opting out.  They also drafted Harry, who was flashing pre-injury and again once he started getting his sea legs back.  
 

Not sure what the deal was with Epenesa.  The staff directed weight loss, followed by him not really getting much run all year... need more out of a 2nd Round Pick.  Still time for AJ though, and pass rushers can typically take some time when not named Bosa/Young.  
 

Then we have two 3rd Round RB’s and RB is still a glaring need.  

[aceman_16]

Meh....at least we can start getting ahead of the comp pick formula

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

I was counting the cap figures from their actual cap hits. Those guys all count anywhere from $8 million to $10 million in cap space. John Brown has a $9 million dollar cap hit, Addison is $10 million. I think Butler was around $8 million and Jefferson around $9 also. That's roughly $36 million on the cap. 

 

Right, but the point is, that's not the right figure to count.  When the guy is cut, the team doesn't save all the money listed on the current "cap hit".  His signing bonus amortized into this year and any future years on his current contract need to be subtracted as they have already been paid and become "dead money".  Any other guarantees must also be subtracted. 

 

Take, for example, John Brown.  Yes, he's got a $9.5M cap hit, but he's got $1.6M of his 2019 signing bonus amortized or prorated into this year, so subtract that and we save $7.9M against the cap if he is released or traded.

 

Let's do Mario Addison as another example.  He was signed last year to a 3 year contract, meaning his $6M signing bonus was amortized over 3 years.  He has a $10.2M cap figure this season, but if we cut him or trade him we have to subtract this year's AND next year's prorated (amortized) signing bonus so $2M + $2M = $4M.  Therefore we save $6.2M against the cap if he's traded or released.

 

There's more subtleties, if he's designated as an "after June 1" cut, we can divide up the cap hit into this year and next, but then the cap savings don't take effect (and can't be used to sign players) until after June 1.

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Right, but the point is, that's not the right figure to count.  When the guy is cut, the team doesn't save all the money listed on the current "cap hit".  His signing bonus amortized into this year and any future years on his current contract need to be subtracted as they have already been paid and become "dead money".  Any other guarantees must also be subtracted. 

 

Take, for example, John Brown.  Yes, he's got a $9.5M cap hit, but he's got $1.6M of his 2019 signing bonus amortized or prorated into this year, so subtract that and we save $7.9M against the cap if he is released or traded.

 

Let's do Mario Addison as another example.  He was signed last year to a 3 year contract, meaning his $6M signing bonus was amortized over 3 years.  He has a $10.2M cap figure this season, but if we cut him or trade him we have to subtract this year's AND next year's prorated (amortized) signing bonus so $2M + $2M = $4M.  Therefore we save $6.2M against the cap if he's traded or released.

 

There's more subtleties, if he's designated as an "after June 1" cut, we can divide up the cap hit into this year and next, but then the cap savings don't take effect (and can't be used to sign players) until after June 1.

Got ya. Didn't know it worked that way. We still would save a lot of money by dropping those guys. No reason we can't sign Milano with it

Edited February 21, 2021 by Buffalo03

[Hapless Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Got ya. Didn't know it worked that way. We still would save a lot of money by dropping those guys. No reason we can't sign Milano with it

 

We will free some cap if we drop some of these guys, but if we're cutting 3 DLmen we're also creating holes we have to fill.

 

Then it's just a matter of priorities: Milano?  The OL? ST?  lots of places.

[Mr. K]

Stay healthy and good luck.

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We will free some cap if we drop some of these guys, but if we're cutting 3 DLmen we're also creating holes we have to fill.

 

Then it's just a matter of priorities: Milano?  The OL? ST?  lots of places.

What do we need on OL? Allen had plenty of time pretty much all season

[Mountain Man]

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

What do we need on OL? Allen had plenty of time pretty much all season

A new RT.

[Mountain Man]

It's the reality of having a franchise QB to pay. You have to make compromises and take risks. 

 

Its why on paper contending teams often have weaker looking teams than bad teams. 

 

Milano is a loss, but that's the reality now. You can't be great at every position AND pay a QB. Look at the Saints, Packers, Patriots even the Chiefs in recent years, all have had obvious roster flaws. 

 

Welcome to the reality of being a SuperBowl contender

[John from Riverside]

50 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

A new RT.

What is wrong with the one we have?  Just resign Williams

[QCity]

Have you ever heard fans complain that a player gets unfairly criticized just because he was a 1st round draft choice? The opposite holds true for Milano - he's wildly overrated because he was a late round pick that seemingly blossomed out of nowhere at a position of need for us. But he's not a stud OLB. Signing Daryl Williams is infinitely more important for this team.

 

Thanks for everything and have fun in Jacksonville, Matt.

[BobbyC81]

Milano will end up with the Patriots.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Milano 'flashing the cash' after having conquered the market:

Also could be construed as 'dominating the dojo'...

*
😁

[JMF2006]

Well I waited 27 pages to post so I better make a good one  

 

Milano was a round 5 pick who developed into a good but not great linebacker

 

Out of 64 games he has played 54 missing 10 to injury not bad for an undersized LB (6'0"  225lbs)

 

He has 7 TO's 5ints and 2 FF  and 155 solo tackles with 89 assisted so 3 per game or 5 with help.

 

This guy is getting overpaid by some team and I hope its not the Bills.

 

He is very replaceable and Beane knows that IMHO

 

Happy Trails Matt where ever you land.

[Mountain Man]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

What is wrong with the one we have?  Just resign Williams

With what money? He took a prove it deal and will now get a massive contract. Someone will easily outbid the Bills for him. He is a decent starting tackle, someone will offer crazy money. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

30 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

With what money? He took a prove it deal and will now get a massive contract. Someone will easily outbid the Bills for him. He is a decent starting tackle, someone will offer crazy money. 

You're forgetting the 'siren song' of free Sabres tickets (if fans are ever allowed back in the arenas).🤔