billsfan89 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, msw2112 said: Some trades work out for both teams. The Vikings got a great rookie WR in Jefferson and a bunch of additional picks for a disgruntled Diggs who wasn't going to reach his ceiling in Minnesota. The Bills got the superstar WR they desperately needed, who has helped their QB become a MVP candidate and the team become an offensive juggernaut. The Chiefs clearly did great in the Mahomes trade. They have MVP-caliber franchise QB who has led their team to a Super Bowl win and has them in contention for the 3rd season in a row. The Bills also made out well - they ended up with a MVP-caliber franchise QB who has the the team in contention who is a perfect cultural fit for the team and the city, an All-Pro caliber CB who is also cultural fit, and ancillary pieces (Neal, and whatever other draft capital we may or may not have related to Zay Jones and/or Dawkins). Had Allen not developed, we'd be looking at this differently, but he has and the Bills are in fine shape. And Mahomes might not have been an MVP candidate as early as he was had he been playing with the likes of Zay Jones and Andre Holmes as his WR corps. I suspect he'd be better with the likes of Diggs, Beasley and Brown, as has Allen. Imagine how much better Allen would be if he had Travis Kelce to throw to.... Sunday should be fun! The Bills basically got Tre and Edumonds for Mahomes along with ancillary draft capital. Both guys (although Edumonds a bit less so) are foundational pieces to the defense. Now even two All-Pro (and Edumonds isn't all Pro yet) defenders wouldn't be worth a Mahomes. But the Bills made the right call the year after and on the QB so now you have the QB and the defensive pieces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 They've joined too many debates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, White Linen said: They've joined too many debates. I think most of their debates are now focused on "who do we fire, and how do we work MORE politics/social issues into our shows" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said: I think most of their debates are now focused on "who do we fire, and how do we work MORE politics/social issues into our shows" The irony being, the reason they have to focus on who to fire, is because they continue to work their political and social views into the shows. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I'd love to see Josh in Mahomes' offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I thought Watson was the sure thing at 10 at the time. Anyways, the Bears gave up picks to draft Trubisky with Watson and Mahomes on the board. How pissed would you be if the Bills did that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 From the trade, Chiefs got one pro bowler and the Bills got 2. What’s the beef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 3 hours ago, I am the egg man said: You serious? Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Johnson vs Flutie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 of course Mahomes is great. Of course Allen is great. The results mean we no longer have to justify our actions. We have the best front office in football. Yes, I'm still pinching myself at how fast this is all happening. This off season will be about staying on top, not climbing to respectability. We are an elite organization with a very progressive owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I like our guys vs their one guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Likely can't stop but must contain Kelce and Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 5 hours ago, JohnNord said: To me, this is such a flawed “debate.” Only because we have no idea whether Mahomes is the same player in Buffalo that he became in KC. If you could guarantee Mahomes is the same exact QB then of course, they’d take him. He’d probably be the #1 pick. Mahomes become that starter in KC with all-pro caliber players in Kelce and Hill. In Buffalo he would have had an over weight Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes, Charles Clay, Robert Foster and Zay Jones. I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. Mahomes would not have been the same player in Buffalo. He would be in a similar situation as Allen where is play gradually got better as the roster got better. Look at Allen as a perfect example too. Allen was already trending in the right direction in terms of his growth over his first two year but once we got him a legitimate receiver in Diggs he became a top three QB in the league. And that is with one all-pro caliber receiver. Mahomes has been playing with two all-pro receivers his entire career. And yes, I know Beasley made second team all-pro this year with one vote from Peter King (because King was looking at it from a slot receiver perspective) but I think the point still stands. Kelce and Hill is basically the equivalent of having two receivers the same caliber of Diggs. And Mahomes has had them since day one. Allen's only had Diggs this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 First mistake, watching ESPN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, StHustle said: How? It can't possibly be no seeing that, as of right now, we passed on a guy that ended up NFL MVP his first season starting then went and won a superbowl the next season. Mahomes has played his entire career with not one but two first team all pro talent receiving threats. If he was drafted by the Bills he would have been slinging the ball to Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes, Zay Jones, Robert Foster and Charles Clay. How many of those dudes are even on rosters still let alone starting? Do you think he is a league MVP his first year starting throwing to those receivers? Allen's had exactly one season with a first team all pro caliber receiver. And he put up an MVP worthy season. The fact that he won't win the award doesn't take away from the fact that his stats this year are good enough to probably win the award perhaps 5 out of the last 10 seasons. So again, the very first year Allen gets one super star receiving threat (Mahomes has always had two) he basically becomes Mahomes and puts up Mahomes numbers. Is that just a coincidence? And that is with just one super star receiver to Mahomes two. And Kelce was already an all-pro tight end before Mahomes became the starter in KC. And Tyreek Hill, though not an all-pro had a pro-bowl year before Mahomes became the starter and it was clear he was on his way to becoming elite before Mahomes took over. Mahomes entered into the perfect situation in Kansas City. A team that was on the upswing and had already put together a string of four consecutive winning seasons under Andy Reid. And in his first season he was able to sit on the bench and watch the Alex Smith have the best year of his career while the Chiefs put together their 5th consecutive winning season. Mahomes took the team over from a QB that had a career year. Smith had a career year because the talent on that team was finally breaking out. The situation in Buffalo basically would have been a complete 180 had Mahomes been drafted by the Bills. Am I a biased Bills fans? Yes. But I also think I've laid out a heck of an argument as to why it's not a slam-dunk case that the Bills made a mistake in passing on Mahomes. 4 hours ago, Doc said: You should have posted this: You'll have to excuse Egg Man. His heart is larger than his brain. Edited January 21, 2021 by Sammy Watkins' Rib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 You mean Watson right? We all had Watson higher on our board, and would have picked Watson at #10, and the debate would have been if why we passed on Mahomes who slid to the Texans. Otherwise we are doing taking Brady in the 5th round or Aaron Rodgers in the first 24 picks. I don't think Mahomes was the pick that day if we didn't trade down. Tip of the cap to the Chiefs to identify Mahomes and trade up to get him, but I don't think trading down was Tre vs Mahomes, and more than wondering why the Bears gave up a third and fourth to move up one spot to not take Mahomes... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 7 hours ago, eball said: I think the question has been put to rest already, although I understand if some may disagree. I think until Josh wins a Lombardi there will be those who still ask the what if.... and I suppose to some extent that is fair. But where the two are at this point I think it is perfectly legitimate to say you'd take Josh Allen, Tre White, Tremaine Edmunds and Siran Neal for Patrick Mahomes and a third round pick (Brandon Parker picked eventually by the Raiders) which is kinda how the whole deal worked itself out in the end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Maybe someone should ask the Bears, and Jets, and Jags, who all passed on Mahomes despite having needed a QB for decades. And who still need a QB 4 years later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, mannc said: Maybe someone should ask the Bears, and Jets, and Jags, who all passed on Mahomes despite having needed a QB for decades. And who still need a QB 4 years later. How Ryan Pace is still in a job four years after passing on two of the top 5 Quarterbacks in the NFL for Mitch Trubisky is an absolute mystery to me. And I didn't hate Mitch at the draft I had a late 1st on him and had him above Mahomes..... but if time proves you that spectacularly wrong as a General Manager you have to expect to lose your job, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Well, for what it’s worth, Vic Carucci apparently agrees with me that this question has already been answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickleyjones Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 This is a foolish argument. It would have been an incredible risk to put the fate of the bills re qb in the hands of the outgoing gm. McD made the choice he could make and got tre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 When the Bills win the super bowl there will be a lot of demons exercised from the perception of Buffalo and the Bills !! They played a rerun of week 5 last night on the NFL network and it's not far fetched at all that the Bills can beat KC and if you look at the stats on BB.com by the stats the Bills are a superior team but Josh needs to be what we know he can be and the D needs to do what they did last week and it will take care of it self . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I don’t watch ESPN so I could care less and I have Disney and Apple stocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think until Josh wins a Lombardi there will be those who still ask the what if.... and I suppose to some extent that is fair. But where the two are at this point I think it is perfectly legitimate to say you'd take Josh Allen, Tre White, Tremaine Edmunds and Siran Neal for Patrick Mahomes and a third round pick (Brandon Parker picked eventually by the Raiders) which is kinda how the whole deal worked itself out in the end. 3 hours ago, mannc said: Maybe someone should ask the Bears, and Jets, and Jags, who all passed on Mahomes despite having needed a QB for decades. And who still need a QB 4 years later. Virtually every team in that top-9 that draft should be asked, outside of maybe the Panthers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, Doc said: Virtually every team in that top-9 that draft should be asked, outside of maybe the Panthers. Agree. At least the Bears picked a QB even if he was the wrong one. A lot of these teams had a need and watched Mahomes and Watson fall to teams in the 20s trading up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 12 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Johnson vs Flutie? Eff no! Everyone knows the 'Eternal Debate' is Coke vs. Pepsi. * Which is BS, since we all know it's Royal Crown Cola. 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 12 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Mahomes become that starter in KC with all-pro caliber players in Kelce and Hill. In Buffalo he would have had an over weight Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes, Charles Clay, Robert Foster and Zay Jones. I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. Mahomes would not have been the same player in Buffalo. He would be in a similar situation as Allen where is play gradually got better as the roster got better. Look at Allen as a perfect example too. Allen was already trending in the right direction in terms of his growth over his first two year but once we got him a legitimate receiver in Diggs he became a top three QB in the league. And that is with one all-pro caliber receiver. Mahomes has been playing with two all-pro receivers his entire career. And yes, I know Beasley made second team all-pro this year with one vote from Peter King (because King was looking at it from a slot receiver perspective) but I think the point still stands. Kelce and Hill is basically the equivalent of having two receivers the same caliber of Diggs. And Mahomes has had them since day one. Allen's only had Diggs this year. Correct but I think that it’s more than that....Mahomes was drafted into perhaps, the best possible situation in the NFL While many teams were high on him, he was not a “can’t miss” QB in the way that many project a Trevor Lawrence to be. He had actually shared a lot of similarities with Allen as a college QB - the difference being his experience and statistics. Either way, many believed that Mahomes was a raw prospect and needed to sit for some time. KC had a luxury where they could sit him. Mahomes had the chance to be mentored by one of the smartest QB’s in Alex Smith and one of the offensive minds in Any Reid. He also was around OC Matt Nagy (and Eric Bienemy to a lesser extent) for his rookie year - again another good offensive mind. When Mahomes was ready to start he stepped into an great offense with some All-Pro weapons. I would argue that Buffalo in 2017 would not have been a great situation with OC Rick Dennison and QB Coach David Culley. Plus, he could’ve been pressed into duty before he was ready plying behind Tyrod. Then there are those terrible weapons. So you have to consider - would Patrick Mahomes in KC be the same QB in Buffalo? I think it’s fair to say by the 3rd year there’s a good chance he becomes a great QB - but the question is how much better does he become than what Allen has been at the end of his 3rd season? We’ll never know but I don’t think it’s a certainty that some in the media are portraying it as, which is what makes this such a futile talking point IMO 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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