Bill Belichick the GM

[Bob in STL]

6 hours ago, Kwai San said:

I say he fades into obscurity ala the Tuna.  Is Tuna even alive any more?

He can live off of his blubber for quite awhile. 

6 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

Do you think his next act is as a GM/football czar?

 

Do you think he would be successful in that role or is he Phil Jackson 2.0?

Belly had been the the coach/GM/czar for a long time.  He is running his course without Tommy.   The talent level on New England is average, and below average in the skill positions.  Let’s see what he does with a more favorable draft position because he has an 8-8 team at best.  

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

He can live off of his blubber for quite awhile. 

Belly had been the the coach/GM/czar for a long time.  He is running his course without Tommy.   The talent level on New England is average, and below average in the skill positions.  Let’s see what he does with a more favorable draft position because he has an 8-8 team at best.  

People also look at this NE team like they “just lost Brady. And not that they lost 10 starters due to opting out with Covid. Conveniently forgetting that they had the best defense in the league a year ago. Brady doesn’t play CB. 
 

They are bad this year, but I don’t expect them to be DOA next year at all. I’d take the over on .500 for 2021. 

[Bob in STL]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

People also look at this NE team like they “just lost Brady. And not that they lost 10 starters due to opting out with Covid. Conveniently forgetting that they had the best defense in the league a year ago. Brady doesn’t play CB. 
 

They are bad this year, but I don’t expect them to be DOA next year at all. I’d take the over on .500 for 2021. 

 

Ten starters did not opt out.  Eight players opted out and not all are starters, maybe 3 are starters and only Hightower is an impact player. 
 

NE players Opted out before season:  tackle Marcus Cannon, linebacker Dont’a Hightower, safety Patrick Chung, tight end Matt LaCosse, running back Brandon Bolden, fullback Dan Vitale, receiver Marqise Lee and guard Najee Toran. 
 

Before Brady, Belicheck was an under .500 coach.  
 

I’m not counting him out even this year, I am saying their talent is average. Let’s see him coach them up without Brady.  

[BringBackFergy]

7 hours ago, Kwai San said:

I say he fades into obscurity ala the Tuna.  Is Tuna even alive any more?

Jim Halpert? Yes. Watch Netflix. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

8 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

Do you think his next act is as a GM/football czar?

 

Do you think he would be successful in that role or is he Phil Jackson 2.0?

 

He's already the GM maybe without the official title and he's pretty bad it it.

 

Read an article recently and talked about the problems in NE and poor drafting was one of the big things they mentioned.  They showed a chart going back to was it 2011 or 2013 , somewhere around that time frame and listed the number of pro bowl players every team has had.  NE was down close to around #20, the Bills had more players than they did.

[Doctor Duck]

7 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Don’t think he could do without coaching cheating.  He seems to be obsessed with coaching cheating and I can’t see him taking a step back.  As long as he’ll winning, he’ll coach NE as long as he wants

fixed

[JetsFan20]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

He's already the GM maybe without the official title and he's pretty bad it it.

 

Read an article recently and talked about the problems in NE and poor drafting was one of the big things they mentioned.  They showed a chart going back to was it 2011 or 2013 , somewhere around that time frame and listed the number of pro bowl players every team has had.  NE was down close to around #20, the Bills had more players than they did.

Hes drafted a ton of talent over the years 

 

Edleman, Gronk, McCourtey, Collins, Chandler Jones, Wilfork, Mayo, Hightower, Jimmy G. 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

People also look at this NE team like they “just lost Brady. And not that they lost 10 starters due to opting out with Covid. Conveniently forgetting that they had the best defense in the league a year ago. Brady doesn’t play CB. 
 

They are bad this year, but I don’t expect them to be DOA next year at all. I’d take the over on .500 for 2021. 

 

 

Maybe. They're 4th next year in available cap space, and next year will be a terrific year for picking up FAs at low prices, because there will be very little cap money available for most teams. I'd take the over on .499, that's for sure. My best guess (far too early, of course) would be 8-8 or 9-7. I do expect real improvement.

 

You're right that it wasn't only losing Brady that killed them. Their optouts hurt a lot and they really had sold out to win during their window. But they will recover quickly, and the optouts will really help, in that they had very little space left under the cap before the optouts, and now they're 4th highest in the league in present cap space, and can roll over $25M, which will help a ton next year.

[JetsFan20]

13 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Maybe. They're 4th next year in available cap space, and next year will be a terrific year for picking up FAs at low prices, because there will be very little cap money available for most teams. I'd take the over on .499, that's for sure. My best guess (far too early, of course) would be 8-8 or 9-7. I do expect real improvement.

 

You're right that it wasn't only losing Brady that killed them. Their optouts hurt a lot and they really had sold out to win during their window. But they will recover quickly, and the optouts will really help, in that they had very little space left under the cap before the optouts, and now they're 4th highest in the league in present cap space, and can roll over $25M, which will help a ton next year.

Miami and the Jets also have a ton of cap space and a lot more draft capital to work with. 
 

 

[Thurman#1]

1 minute ago, JetsFan20 said:

Miami and the Jets also have a ton of cap space and a lot more draft capital to work with. 
 

 

 

 

Yes, but look at what the Jets are starting with. Still, you're right that this is a good thing for them. Miami will have $35M. I wouldn't call that a ton, myself, though it is indeed well above average for next year.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Sunday 'round table' network shows, until someone realizes he says little, and what he does say is mostly unintelligible.  This ought to get him about a season and a half of work, before he opens his Subway franchise.

[mannc]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

 

As I said in the other thread, the drafting of Brady was pure luck considering he passed on him 6 times, including earlier in the 6th round.  And as matter2003 mentioned, the credit goes to the then-Cheaters QB coach Dick Rehbein.

The Pats liked Brady a lot, but the team was a mess and they already had Bledsoe and two other QBs in the roster.  Brady was a part time starter at Michigan and he had an awful combine—showed up in poor shape and ran one of the slowest 40 times ever for a qb.  The fact that they picked him at all (with a comp pick, of course) is a miracle and was a damn good job of scouting...

[Captain Hindsight]

18 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Bart Scott says Belichick should be fired as GM.  There's be some conversation about this in Bean Town.   Pats fans are not happy with the roster he's built.  

 

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/30/espns-bart-scott-calls-for-the-firing-of-bill-belichick-the-general-manager/

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11/03/sports/bill-belichicks-excuses-about-salary-cap-are-disingenuous/

Odd, I feel good about the roster he's constructed 

[The Jokeman]

11 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Jim Halpert? Yes. Watch Netflix. 

Shutup Andy!

[Captain Hindsight]

17 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

Sony Michel and Nkeal Harry

They've been more effective on IR than on the field 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

The Pats liked Brady a lot, but the team was a mess and they already had Bledsoe and two other QBs in the roster.  Brady was a part time starter at Michigan and he had an awful combine—showed up in poor shape and ran one of the slowest 40 times ever for a qb.  The fact that they picked him at all (with a comp pick, of course) is a miracle and was a damn good job of scouting...

 

They liked him so much...they took him at the end of the 6th round after taking Antwan Harris (who?) earlier in the round.  At least they took him before David Nugent.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

They liked him so much...they took him at the end of the 6th round after taking Antwan Harris (who?) earlier in the round.  At least they took him before David Nugent.

True but after drafting him they did keep him as a 4th QB, I remember thinking it was odd at the time. I think they also had Bledsoe, Rohan Davey and John Freisz. 

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They liked him so much...they took him at the end of the 6th round after taking Antwan Harris (who?) earlier in the round.  At least they took him before David Nugent.

As I said, they had other priorities and QB was probably their position of least need at that time.  They only had 40 players on the roster and had holes everywhere, except QB.

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

True but after drafting him they did keep him as a 4th QB, I remember thinking it was odd at the time. I think they also had Bledsoe, Rohan Davey and John Freisz. 

 

They had the 33-year old Friesz and Michael Bishop (who they drafted in the 7th round the year before, didn't play his rookie season and who was out of football after that season).  Davey was drafted in 2002 with a 4th round pick.

 

21 minutes ago, mannc said:

As I said, they had other priorities and QB was probably their position of least need at that time.  They only had 40 players on the roster and had holes everywhere, except QB.

 

Backup QB was a need.  And as matter2003 said, Belicheat was leaning towards Tim Rattay.

[GunnerBill]

For the all people talking about him being a crap GM don't make me post my list of Pats drafts 2009 to 2016 again...… because that is one of the best runs of drafting in recent history. He has drafted poorly the past 4 years though and I think the Patriots should consider whether the guys they have on the personnel side assisting Bill are really strong enough to question or challenge him.

 

That said, no. I don't think he will retire from coaching to become a GM. He is the GM because he is a coach who wants full control. I don't think he is a GM because he loves that side of the job. I think being GM is just a means of servicing Belichick the coach. Once he stops coaching he will have no interest in football IMO. He will go and sail boats with Parcells.

11 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

Hes drafted a ton of talent over the years 

 

Edleman, Gronk, McCourtey, Collins, Chandler Jones, Wilfork, Mayo, Hightower, Jimmy G. 

 

And that is just scratching the surface....

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

11 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

Hes drafted a ton of talent over the years 

 

Edleman, Gronk, McCourtey, Collins, Chandler Jones, Wilfork, Mayo, Hightower, Jimmy G. 

 

That's about one a year, not sure I'd put Jimmy G on that list either.  And how many are still there?  His drafting particularly in last few years has not been veey good.  The Bills have more pro bowl  players lately than NE does.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

That's about one a year, not sure I'd put Jimmy G on that list either.  And how many are still there?  His drafting particularly in last few years has not been veey good.  The Bills have more pro bowl  players lately than NE does.

 

That does it. Here comes the list. This is an actual 9 year stretch for a man who supposedly can't draft:

 

Jerod Mayo, Matthew Slater, Patrick Chung, Julian Edelman, Sebastian Vollmer, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon, Shane Vereen, Chandler Jones, Dont'a Hightower, Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, James White, Malcolm Brown, Tre Flowers, Shaq Mason, Joe Thuney…. plus Malcolm Butler and David Andrews as UDFAs. I make that 20 actual difference makers who were established starters over a 9 year period.

 

That is without including guys like Elandon Roberts and Ted Karras and Nate Ebner and Duron Harmon and Brandon Spikes and Tavon Wilson who were solid depth and role players.... oh and of course Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett one starting level and one top end backup Quarterback who were trade away for more capital.

 

Those drafts were the backbone of a roster that won 3 Superbowls and produced 7 all pro selections and 20 pro bowl selections (some were the same players multiple times).

 

They have drafted incredible BADLY since 2017. But for decade before that they smashed the draft out of the park.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That does it. Here comes the list. This is an actual 9 year stretch for a man who supposedly can't draft:

 

Jerod Mayo, Matthew Slater, Patrick Chung, Julian Edelman, Sebastian Vollmer, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon, Shane Vereen, Chandler Jones, Dont'a Hightower, Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, James White, Malcolm Brown, Tre Flowers, Shaq Mason, Joe Thuney…. plus Malcolm Butler and David Andrews as UDFAs. I make that 20 actual difference makers who were established starters over a 9 year period.

 

That is without including guys like Elandon Roberts and Ted Karras and Nate Ebner and Duron Harmon and Brandon Spikes and Tavon Wilson who were solid depth and role players.... oh and of course Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett one starting level and one top end backup Quarterback who were trade away for more capital.

 

Those drafts were the backbone of a roster that won 3 Superbowls and produced 7 all pro selections and 20 pro bowl selections (some were the same players multiple times).

 

They have drafted incredible BADLY since 2017. But for decade before that they smashed the draft out of the park.

 

Do you subscribe to the Athletic, About 2 weeks ago there was an article there talking about their demise and how a number of things effected them but had lists, charts, showing how they have drafted worse than most teams in the league for the past 7 to 8 years, including the Bills.  Was the 9 year stretch you mention the past 9 years?  Doesn't look like it since some of those names were from back around 2009.

 

It also talked about how they'd sign these mid level cheap FA's  every year, but this year with no Brady and a few other things happening, that path dried up for the them too.  Basically players would sign for less to have a chance at winning the SB in next couple of years, but once Brady was gone, they weren't signing there. 

 

But also article talked about how they haven't drafted well in the past 7 to 8 years.  Guys like Edelman Gronk, McCordy, Solder and others arrived when they were still drafting well but not since around 2012 give or take a year.  James White has1000 rushing and 3004 receiving yards in 7 seasons.  You're calling that an example of drafting well?

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Do you subscribe to the Athletic, About 2 weeks ago there was an article there talking about their demise and how a number of things effected them but had lists, charts, showing how they have drafted worse than most teams in the league for the past 7 to 8 years, including the Bills.  Was the 9 year stretch you mention the past 9 years?  Doesn't look like it since some of those names were from back around 2009.

 

It also talked about how they'd sign these mid level cheap FA's  every year, but this year with no Brady and a few other things happening, that path dried up for the them too.  Basically players would sign for less to have a chance at winning the SB in next couple of years, but once Brady was gone, they weren't signing there. 

 

But also article talked about how they haven't drafted well in the past 7 to 8 years.  Guys like Edelman Gronk, McCordy, Solder and others arrived when they were still drafting well but not since around 2012 give or take a year.  James White has1000 rushing and 3004 receiving yards in 7 seasons.  You're calling that an example of drafting well?

 

I do subscribe to the Athletic. My list is 2008-2016. They haven't drafted well the last 4 years. And yea.... James White is an example of drafting well. I'll look up the Athletic article but their drafting was still pretty good until about 2017.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do subscribe to the Athletic. My list is 2008-2016. They haven't drafted well the last 4 years. And yea.... James White is an example of drafting well. I'll look up the Athletic article but their drafting was still pretty good until about 2017.

 

That was one of the things the article talked about their early success was due to drafting well in the first decade, lately not as well.

 

And BTW, this wasn't me asking the question! LOL

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bill-belichick-bristles-at-reporters-question-about-pats-lack-of-draft-success/ar-BB1aZjIt?li=BBnb7Kz

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

That was one of the things the article talked about their early success was due to drafting well in the first decade, lately not as well.

 

And BTW, this wasn't me asking the question! LOL

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bill-belichick-bristles-at-reporters-question-about-pats-lack-of-draft-success/ar-BB1aZjIt?li=BBnb7Kz

 

In the later half of that period you can argue he didn't hit his first round picks.... that is certainly fair. But anyone who wants to argue Joe Thuney in the 3rd or Ted Karras in the 6th or Trey Flowers in the 4th or Shaq Mason in the 5th or James White in the 4th isn't good drafting is gonna have a hard time making that argument.

[Warcodered]

 

[without a drought]

Only 4 top twenty picks in 22 years might have a little to do with it.

[May Day 10]

Lol, are they trying to run him out of town?

[416BillsFan]

Watch him troll everyone and rehire Bill O'Brien as the GM.

[GoBills808]

He drafted Sony Michel 4 picks before Nick Chubb and they both went to the same college😂😂

[Nitro]

NFL is a "What have you done for me lately" league.  Another GM would be feeling heat for recent draft woes and trades.   I have never been a fan of a coach being a GM.  

[ganesh]

On 11/13/2020 at 12:29 AM, Kwai San said:

I say he fades into obscurity ala the Tuna.  Is Tuna even alive any more?

All HC fade off into obscurity....At the end of the day, it is the players that keep the NFL ticking.   

 

The only reason the Bills still remember Marv and those SB years is because we have had nothing since then for 25 years until recently.

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, Doc said:

 

They liked him so much...they took him at the end of the 6th round after taking Antwan Harris (who?) earlier in the round.  At least they took him before David Nugent.

 

 

Just taking him at all when they already had three QBs on the roster - QBs they wanted to keep and indeed did keep all season, they went with four QBs that year - was an unusual move, and did indeed show that they liked him. It was good scouting.

 

We liked Russell Wilson a lot but didn't take him when we had the chance in the third. That was bad scouting. If you take a guy before anyone else does and he turns out good, you did good. If you like him but wait too long, that's what's bad. The Pats didn't wait too long.

[Doc]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Just taking him at all when they already had three QBs on the roster - QBs they wanted to keep and indeed did keep all season, they went with four QBs that year - was an unusual move, and did indeed show that they liked him. It was good scouting.

 

We liked Russell Wilson a lot but didn't take him when we had the chance in the third. That was bad scouting. If you take a guy before anyone else does and he turns out good, you did good. If you like him but wait too long, that's what's bad. The Pats didn't wait too long.

 

Why was it an unusual move?  Friesz and Bishop were scrubs who were out of the NFL after Brady's rookie season and obviously the Cheaters were looking to upgrade the backup QB spot as Belicheat was eyeing Tim Rattay.  And again the guy who liked him was Rehbein. 

 

But again, you don't really like someone and wait to take him at the end of the 6th round.  Wilson was 5'10", not 6'4", and he still went in the 3rd round.

[Ghost_002!]

So people don't have to make up stories to best fit their own agenda...

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-draft-tom-brady-2014-5

How The Patriots Drafted A Hall Of Fame Quarterback In The 6th Round

 

Excerpts from the article:

 

A lot of people think the Patriots just got lucky in drafting a future Hall of Famer so late in the draft. In reality, luck had very little to do with it.

 

The Patriots Were High On Brady

 

 

Prior to the draft, quarterbacks coach Dick Rehbein was sent to scout quarterbacks, Belichick said in an interview with NFL Network.

 

When he returned, Rehbein told Belichick that Brady was "the best fit for the [Patriots'] system" and others in the front office and among the coaches agreed.

....

 

"But we were looking for the mental makeup...Belichick did a lot of homework on him, along with our staff, on his mental makeup. Watching the tape, he was the guy that would go in and lead them back to victory."

Edited November 14, 2020 by Ghost_002!

[ColoradoBills]

34 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

So people don't have to make up stories to best fit their own agenda...

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-draft-tom-brady-2014-5

How The Patriots Drafted A Hall Of Fame Quarterback In The 6th Round

 

Excerpts from the article:

 

A lot of people think the Patriots just got lucky in drafting a future Hall of Famer so late in the draft. In reality, luck had very little to do with it.

 

The Patriots Were High On Brady

 

 

Prior to the draft, quarterbacks coach Dick Rehbein was sent to scout quarterbacks, Belichick said in an interview with NFL Network.

 

When he returned, Rehbein told Belichick that Brady was "the best fit for the [Patriots'] system" and others in the front office and among the coaches agreed.

....

 

"But we were looking for the mental makeup...Belichick did a lot of homework on him, along with our staff, on his mental makeup. Watching the tape, he was the guy that would go in and lead them back to victory."

 

Come on Ghost, a Business Insider article from 2014?

 

The Pats* 2000 draft was a complete bust except for lucking into Brady.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

[Ghost_002!]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Come on Ghost, a Business Insider article from 2014?

 

The Pats* 2000 draft was a complete bust except for lucking into Brady.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

 

I am not arguing the grade of that draft or any of the pats draft....

 

You do not "luck" into a 6 round pick..ha ha not at pick 199..nobody including the pats knew he was going to be great...he worked at it...his coaches helped him...my point.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

I am not arguing the grade of that draft or any of the pats draft....

 

You do not "luck" into a 6 round pick..ha ha not at pick 199..nobody including the pats knew he was going to be great...he worked at it...his coaches helped him...my point.

 

What are you talking about?  Getting anything out of a 6th round pick is luck.  How many 6th rounders in NFL history have become HOF'ers?

 

And yes, the Cheaters had no idea he'd be great, or even good.  Hence the reason they gave Bledsoe a 10-year $100M extension after Brady's rookie season.