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The End of the Lamar Jackson Era


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I've said since the beginning of the year that I'm not buying the Lamar Jackson hype, and I'm not buying the Kyler Murray hype, either.   I know they are really special athletes, and they're a couple

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".   Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earn

Eh. I would be pissed if JA had a clunker and the rest of the league said, see! I told you he wasn't any good! I don't think we should do the same to LJ.    Tonight seemed as much about LJ h

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5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I mean the Browns weren't defending him well at all.


that is a good defense he played tonight, and he gave them fits. 
 

if we have to play the ravens, we are going to need to contain him. We haven’t done a great job setting the edge all year against mobile QB’s. I really hope we have the scheme and players to do it. 

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14 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Roman can scheme for the run game like nobody's business but it looks to me like Lamar is not appreciably better as a passer than he was at Louisville. I liked him a lot coming out because I thought he showed promise as a passer and we all knew the kind of runner he was. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see much if any progression. -He's at best a tier 2 passer. If I'm right, at the end of the day that's just not good enuf to win a championship. Having a good running game is important but that should be the RBs job. The QBs job is to throw the football. It's a passing league. I expect the Ravens to implode in the playoffs once again. Just too easy to contain when the going gets tough.

 

 

I agree he has not been developed as a passer.    He showed a lot of potential as a passer at Louisville. 

 

If you recall,  when Roman was here Trent Dilfer called his passing game design "high school level".

 

The Bills took a big gamble putting a raw, athletic QB like Josh Allen in a complicated New England style offense.

 

It lead to two very statistically rough years at the bottom of the league in completion % that probably would have gotten Allen benched on teams like Pittsburgh or Baltimore.

 

But now it's yielding results.   Mayfield and Jackson started out much quicker but now Allen is the most advanced of the bunch.

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He completed 7 passes tonight. 

 

The Browns D is atrocious and that last play call where they over loaded the right side and forced Lamer to run to his right (brilliant) that sucked up (tripped themselves) the 2 DBs and Brown broke wide open.  

 

It's what he does.  His freakish athletism makes things happen.  Will he be a good QB as the freakish starts to fade and the league continues to figure him out?  I honestly don't know how you can confidently say yes.

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27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What about that looked like an MVP performance to you?


His 3 TD’s. His 4th down TD pass to tie the game. His GW drive to get the FG. His ridiculous runs. All against a good defense in a must-win game. 
 

He has regressed as a passer this year. But because of his legs, he is super dangerous and it opens up guys in the passing game at times. 
 

I am just not understanding the Lamar hate. 
 

 

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21 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:


His 3 TD’s. His 4th down TD pass to tie the game. His GW drive to get the FG. His ridiculous runs. All against a good defense in a must-win game. 
 

He has regressed as a passer this year. But because of his legs, he is super dangerous and it opens up guys in the passing game at times. 
 

I am just not understanding the Lamar hate. 
 

 

He completed 11 passes against a bad Cleveland defense. 
 

I don’t hate the guy but I also don’t pretend he’s a good QB.

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20 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:


His 3 TD’s. His 4th down TD pass to tie the game. His GW drive to get the FG. His ridiculous runs. All against a good defense in a must-win game. 
 

He has regressed as a passer this year. But because of his legs, he is super dangerous and it opens up guys in the passing game at times. 
 

I am just not understanding the Lamar hate. 
 

 

I'm not understanding it either. 

Actually, I am. It's just the "we won the draft" stuff.

My take on it: that QB Class of 2018 really is one to rival 1983. Rosen is a bust; the jury is still out (but getting ready to come back into the courtroom) on Darnold. But Mayfield, Jackson, and Allen are looking like this generation's Marino, Kelly, and Elway. Three dynamic, exciting, different players. They make the NFL fun to watch again.

Enjoy it, people! Wait till 2035 or so to start boasting about who "won" the draft. The answer for now is: NFL fans won.

 

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8 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

All I know is the more he predicates his game by scrambling, the more likely he will get hurt. He's not physically wired to be a true pocket passer. Running qbs don't usually have a long shelf life. Ask Vick or RG3.

Not always.

Randall Cunningham's best season was at age 35.

Donovan McNabb's last good season was at age 33. Same for Steve McNair.

Of course all of those guys adjusted their games as they aged, and we don't know if Lamar can.

But for every pocket passer who lasts into their late 30s or (now) 40s (Peyton, Brees, Brady) there's an Andrew Luck who's done by 30. Sometimes you just gotta let it play out.

 

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6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Not always.

Randall Cunningham's best season was at age 35.

Donovan McNabb's last good season was at age 33. Same for Steve McNair.

Of course all of those guys adjusted their games as they aged, and we don't know if Lamar can.

But for every pocket passer who lasts into their late 30s or (now) 40s (Peyton, Brees, Brady) there's an Andrew Luck who's done by 30. Sometimes you just gotta let it play out.

 

Those guys were complete QBs who also happened to be mobile. Jackson’s game is more Tim Tebow than Cunningham or McNair.

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Jackson's final year as a starter will be next year. His body will be near the end of it's peak for athleticism with only downside.

 

He's a rookie contract QB only. The Ravens were smart to try to win with him for that short window. People remember a Superbowl victory over 30 years of "trying" and they basically were the Superbowl favorites last year.

 

Good effort but the gimmick is over. 

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2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I'm not understanding it either. 

Actually, I am. It's just the "we won the draft" stuff.

My take on it: that QB Class of 2018 really is one to rival 1983. Rosen is a bust; the jury is still out (but getting ready to come back into the courtroom) on Darnold. But Mayfield, Jackson, and Allen are looking like this generation's Marino, Kelly, and Elway. Three dynamic, exciting, different players. They make the NFL fun to watch again.

Enjoy it, people! Wait till 2035 or so to start boasting about who "won" the draft. The answer for now is: NFL fans won.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to compare them to Marino, Kelly, and Elway. Especially Mayfield, who just seems pretty average to me. He's a legitimate starter, for sure.

 

As far as Jackson, I am just not impressed with him as a passer. But for sure he is a tremendous runner. Maybe that's enough for him to have a long, fruitful career. Who knows? But he has sucked in the playoffs two straight years, so we'll see.

 

I would prefer for him to fail because then that's one less hurdle for Allen and the Bills to jump over on their own road to a championship.

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3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

He completed 11 passes against a bad Cleveland defense. 
 

I don’t hate the guy but I also don’t pretend he’s a good QB.

 

Josh had games like that too, but he only passed 17 times. But when you are rushing freely for the tune of 124 yards & 2 TD's (on top of the 1 passing TD) & don't turn the ball over, that's pretty damn impressive. 

I'm not saying he's a legend or anything, but accounting for nearly 300 yards of offense & 3 TD's is definitely a good thing.

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The whole reason the Lamar debate should not be stuck on absolutes like "MVP" or "End of era" is because Lamar can win like he won last night. That isn't a one off. It isn't a fluke. He has won like that multiple times in his career. I said it at the very start of the season. You could have a significant regression in his passing efficiency from 2019 (which I think almost all of us predicted..... especially in regards to the % of his throws that yielded touchdowns in 2019 which was a statistical anomaly) and the Ravens could still win double digit games. And here we stand. Baltimore at 8-5 with games against the Jags, Giants and Bengals to come.

 

Lamar is not the type of Quarterback I would choose for my franchise. But let's remember where the Ravens were when they made that choice. They were in purgatory. Flacco's body had given up on him and he had gone from high end game manager to basically a backup calibre player. But the team was too good to end up with a top 10 pick. They already had young elite talent at some of the key positions in Ronny Stanley at left tackle and Marlon Humphrey at corner. They needed to find a Quarterback and they were not gonna be in situ to get Darnold or Rosen or Mayfield or Allen. They focused on what was potentially an option and then have tried to build a team to support that.

 

Lamar isn't a flash in the pan. He is going to win plenty of games in the NFL. Whether you can ever win a Championship playing this way is a fair question.... I think everything else would need to be perfect - and certainly this year their offensive line hasn't been with Yanda retiring, Stanley tearing his ACL and other injuries. But he is going to be able to win plenty of games without ever being an elite passer because he is an elite running Quarterback. In my time only a young Mike Vick even comes close. Comparisons with Tyrod or RGIII are off the mark. There will be times and games where Lamar's limitations catch up with Baltimore. But there will also be plenty where his skillset enables them to win.

 

I wouldn't want him or want the Bills to swap Josh for him. But people have to view Lamar through a slightly different lens. Because his gifts mean he is the only QB in the league that I think could win regularly completing 10-15 passes. That is the 14th time in his young career he has done it. It is not a fluke.

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For as bad as our defense was early in the season, they have consistently been able to take away what the other offense does best.  If those offenses are dynamic and can switch to something else, they were getting gouged the first 8 weeks.  
 

To me, bring on the Ravens.  I have complete confidence that the bills can bottle him up and be patient.  The browns are the type of team to over pursue  and get taken advantage of by a mobile QB. McD will have a plan and will shut him down.

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