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The End of the Lamar Jackson Era


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The Chiefs, certainly seem to have the Ravens number.

 

Week 3, 2020. Lamar Jackson 15 of 28 for 97 yards, 1 TD, 4 sacks. rating 73.1

 

Meanwhile, Mahomes against that Ravens defense #1 in points allowed, #8 in yards allowed 31 of 42 for 385 yards, 4 TDs, 133.5 rate. 

 

The Chiefs beat the Ravens last season too. The Titans used the Bills defensive scheme to beat the Ravens in the playoffs last season 28-12.

 

 

On another note, Darn good thing the Bills found their run game against New England on that cold and rainy, windy day. Winter is coming! 

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So when I said that I thought Jackson lacked the focus to be consistently great year after year and struck me as a guy who would have an MVP year then read his own press clippings and maybe not work as hard, I wasn't insane? Strange, because so many on here told me I was was...

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I said last year if defenses put 7 in the box, 2 either spy and or run/pass blitz  then third and long have heavy coverage and no more then 4 in the box that by doing this he could not sustain long drives. the problem last year is they respected his running ability on 3rd and 7+,. 2nd and 8+ giving him easy throws. when we played them last year our defense showed other teams how to beat him. now its become easier

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7 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

The Chiefs, certainly seem to have the Ravens number.

 

Week 3, 2020. Lamar Jackson 15 of 28 for 97 yards, 1 TD, 4 sacks. rating 73.1

 

Meanwhile, Mahomes against that Ravens defense #1 in points allowed, #8 in yards allowed 31 of 42 for 385 yards, 4 TDs, 133.5 rate. 

 

The Chiefs beat the Ravens last season too. The Titans used the Bills defensive scheme to beat the Ravens in the playoffs last season 28-12.

 

On another note, Darn good thing the Bills found their run game against New England on that cold and rainy, windy day. Winter is coming! 

 

One blown play cost the Bills the ballgame. 

Tennessee shut him down in the playoffs too.  

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Uh, oh, Shots Fired (kind of)

 

Lamar Jackson says defenses calling out their plays, implying they've become too predictable.

 

Greg Roman says he doesn't take issue with Lamar's remarks, but that's nothing new:

https://www.nfl.com/news/greg-roman-defenses-calling-out-plays-is-nothing-new-and-part-of-the-chess-match

"With no fans in the stands, bands or music playing, you can hear a lot right about now," Roman said. "Some of it I can't repeat. Lamar's one of the great competitors I know. I define him as a winner. And he only wants to win every game, every play, game, practice. That's what drives him. He definitely gives me feedback on when people are calling something out and whatnot. That's definitely something we talk about. Calling out plays on a defense is nothing new. I can talk about Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, every play they're trying to guess what play you're going to run based on what they're seeing. That's a chess match."

 

 

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I've always thought that Lamar Jackson's narrowly defined skill set makes it possible to scheme ways to contain him.  Within his skill set, he can do things nobody else can, but there's a lot of stuff he doesn't do especially well.   While Buffalo lost their Baltimore game last season,  they demonstrated at least one approach for containing Jackson.  The Titans followed Buffalo's lead and polished it up a bit and beat the Ravens.  Other teams will use that, or maybe a variation and Baltimore will find it more and more challenging to keep their offense as productive as it was.

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40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Uh, oh, Shots Fired (kind of)

 

Lamar Jackson says defenses calling out their plays, implying they've become too predictable.

 

Greg Roman says he doesn't take issue with Lamar's remarks, but that's nothing new:

https://www.nfl.com/news/greg-roman-defenses-calling-out-plays-is-nothing-new-and-part-of-the-chess-match

"With no fans in the stands, bands or music playing, you can hear a lot right about now," Roman said. "Some of it I can't repeat. Lamar's one of the great competitors I know. I define him as a winner. And he only wants to win every game, every play, game, practice. That's what drives him. He definitely gives me feedback on when people are calling something out and whatnot. That's definitely something we talk about. Calling out plays on a defense is nothing new. I can talk about Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, every play they're trying to guess what play you're going to run based on what they're seeing. That's a chess match."

 

 

Exactly what a bunch of us have been saying.... Wait and see if the league catches up with this incarnation of Roman’s offense. It’s happened at every stop in the NFL. The D coordinators and players are too mentally advanced to not figure it out, and once his system gets normalized with that personnel grouping the offense starts to slip. By the end as SF the fans were complaining about other teams knowing the plays. 
 

I’m not sure how much of that is on Jackson. One could argue that Roman’s scheme limits the development of QBs, but the sample size is too limited. However, Jackson really hasn’t improved much passing outside the numbers. I am certainly curious to see how he’d do in a Shanahan based offense that utilizes bootlegs and RPOs along with creative route combinations. 

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15 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Exactly what a bunch of us have been saying.... Wait and see if the league catches up with this incarnation of Roman’s offense. It’s happened at every stop in the NFL. The D coordinators and players are too mentally advanced to not figure it out, and once his system gets normalized with that personnel grouping the offense starts to slip. By the end as SF the fans were complaining about other teams knowing the plays. 
 

I’m not sure how much of that is on Jackson. One could argue that Roman’s scheme limits the development of QBs, but the sample size is too limited. However, Jackson really hasn’t improved much passing outside the numbers. I am certainly curious to see how he’d do in a Shanahan based offense that utilizes bootlegs and RPOs along with creative route combinations. 

 

They're still 6-2 with losses only to KC and the Steelers, both excellent teams.

One could say this figuring out hasn't gotten too far in their way

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10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

They're still 6-2 with losses only to KC and the Steelers, both excellent teams.

One could say this figuring out hasn't gotten too far in their way

Figuring it out and having the talent to do something about it are different matters. The opposing teams offense still has to beat the Ravens defense. The talent advantage they have will dissipate if they pay Jackson like it did in SF in 2014. If you look at the offensive stats from the SF team they sort of suddenly started seriously underperforming in the second half of 14’. IIRC they went from averaging 20+ ppg to 13ppg. Not saying it will happen again, but when it happens a few times to a coordinator it’s worth paying attention to as we go forward. 

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56 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Exactly what a bunch of us have been saying.... Wait and see if the league catches up with this incarnation of Roman’s offense. It’s happened at every stop in the NFL. The D coordinators and players are too mentally advanced to not figure it out, and once his system gets normalized with that personnel grouping the offense starts to slip. By the end as SF the fans were complaining about other teams knowing the plays. 
 

I’m not sure how much of that is on Jackson. One could argue that Roman’s scheme limits the development of QBs, but the sample size is too limited. However, Jackson really hasn’t improved much passing outside the numbers. I am certainly curious to see how he’d do in a Shanahan based offense that utilizes bootlegs and RPOs along with creative route combinations. 

 

Right thats Roman biggest weakness as a OC. 

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11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

They're still 6-2 with losses only to KC and the Steelers, both excellent teams.

One could say this figuring out hasn't gotten too far in their way

Hap - 

 

I didn't say Jackson was trash and should be benched in favor of Joe Flacco.  I was talking about the long run.  I was talking about Jackson being unable to dominate the league like a premier QB unless he learns to play from the pocket.  It's now several weeks since my original post in this thread, and yes, he's 6-2, but he's near the absolute bottom of the league in passing yards per game - he's under 200.  How many people here have written how many thousand posts about Josh Allen, and Taylor before him, having to be able to throw consistently for more than 200 yards per game.   

 

Jackson is exactly the kind of QB who, when the game demands he put up 150 yards passing in the second half, he's going to struggle.  Others have explained better than I that the fundamental problem is Roman's offensive style.  Whatever it is, Jackson's long-term ability to be a threat to win the Super Bowl is dependent on one thing: the ability to be a top-10 passer from the pocket.  That's been true for running QBs from Tarkenton to Young to Vick to Wilson to Newton.  Jackson hasn't shown the fundamental arm skills to be that guy, and playing in an offense that doesn't demand that he develop that way doesn't help him.  

 

In the OP I said 

 

Quote

It was all pretty obvious watching last night.   Mahomes stands in the pocket, makes decisions and makes throws.   Jackson doesn't.  Jackson will not be a premier QB if he doesn't learn to play that traditional QB game.  He's way, way behind Josh Allen in developing those skills.  Allen plays much more like Mahomes than like Jackson.  McBeane have always said he was going to be a pocket passer.  They've been working on making him one since he arrived in Buffalo.  Baltimore went down the other road, building an offense that plays to Jackson's strengths, but that is an offense that by definition is limited.  I think they're wasting their time.   Jackson will hurt some teams sometimes, he'll force your defense to play a different style than their used to, but at the end of the season, Baltimore's offense will limit their ability to win big games.  

 

I still think that's true.  Might the Ravens win a Super Bowl playing with Jackson's current style?  Sure.  Flacco won a Super Bowl with a great Ravens defense.  The point is that no one is going to consider the Ravens to be a serious threat, year after year, until he shows he can play out of the pocket like Brees.  

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1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't say Jackson was trash and should be benched in favor of Joe Flacco.  I was talking about the long run.  I was talking about Jackson being unable to dominate the league like a premier QB unless he learns to play from the pocket.  It's now several weeks since my original post in this thread, and yes, he's 6-2, but he's near the absolute bottom of the league in passing yards per game - he's under 200.  How many people here have written how many thousand posts about Josh Allen, and Taylor before him, having to be able to throw consistently for more than 200 yards per game.   

 

Jackson is exactly the kind of QB who, when the game demands he put up 150 yards passing in the second half, he's going to struggle.  Others have explained better than I that the fundamental problem is Roman's offensive style.  Whatever it is, Jackson's long-term ability to be a threat to win the Super Bowl is dependent on one thing: the ability to be a top-10 passer from the pocket.  That's been true for running QBs from Tarkenton to Young to Vick to Wilson to Newton.  Jackson hasn't shown the fundamental arm skills to be that guy, and playing in an offense that doesn't demand that he develop that way doesn't help him.  


I get similar feedback. 
not saying Lamar sucks

 

Elite athlete, yes, it’s just that he’s not an elite QB. 

 

 

(When it comes down to having to pass to win)

Via @NFLResearch: The largest deficit the #Ravens have overcome to win with Lamar Jackson as their QB is 8 points.
 

 

 

 

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...round and round and ROUND we go. We're fully dug in now. 

 

The Ravens have a great roster, but point blank, he's the "straw that stirs the drink".  As he goes, the Ravens go, and I don't think we've seen his ceiling yet. 

 

Plus, isn't some adversity a good thing? He's been sloppy since the Chiefs, but he continues to find ways to win. The Steelers beat him up all game, but he kept his team in it until the final play. 

 

I think playoff wins are on the horizon. Hell, Bills v Ravens for the AFC crown would be a GREAT game. 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:


I get similar feedback. 
not saying Lamar sucks

 

Elite athlete, yes, it’s just that he’s not an elite QB. 

 

 

(When it comes down to having to pass to win)

Via @NFLResearch: The largest deficit the #Ravens have overcome to win with Lamar Jackson as their QB is 8 points.
 

 

 

 

Well they finally won a game after trailing at halftime against the Colts last week, albeit 10-7. 

1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said:

...round and round and ROUND we go. We're fully dug in now. 

The Ravens have a great roster, but point blank, he's the "straw that stirs the drink".  

 

Wake me when he starts 16 games and they go 6-10. 

 

 

The record may not even be indicative of Lamar because the Ravens always seem to have a solid squad under Harbaugh. His worst record as a HC came in 2015 when they had an injury riddled 5-11 season. Other than that they have been .500 or better winning 4 division titles and a SB since 2008.  

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31 minutes ago, H2o said:

The record may not even be indicative of Lamar because the Ravens always seem to have a solid squad under Harbaugh. His worst record as a HC came in 2015 when they had an injury riddled 5-11 season. Other than that they have been .500 or better winning 4 division titles and a SB since 2008.  

 

They've had a good roster for years, but there was a switch that flipped the day Lamar started. Since then, they've been an elite team.

Playoff wins are next, but they've got many chapters to write with #8 leading the way. Crazy that he is younger than Burrow!

Edited by TheElectricCompany
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