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Weekly PFF Hate

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5 hours ago, QCity said:

 

I'm not saying PFF is infallible, I'm merely trying to explain their methodology -- and I understand that may be nigh impossible to some here. You can't use 3 or 4 stats to discount their conclusions. We already have metrics to compare QB's based on throwing stats like passer rating and QBR.

 

I'll illustrate this one more time using an extreme example, and then I'll bow out to let the PFF bashing party resume.

 

Let's say QB #1 goes 0/20 for 0 yards, 0 TD 0 INT. Every single pass is absolutely perfect - on time, hits each receiver right between the numbers into both hands, but is dropped. 20 dropped passes!

 

QB #2 goes 14/20 for 200 yards, 2 TD 1 INT.

 

Yup, PFF is going to grade QB #1 higher, even though he didn't complete a single pass! He had ZERO yards throwing! Are they nuts?!? Their rationale is, "Look, QB #1 did everything perfectly, get him some receivers that can catch and that line would be 20/20 for 300 yards 3TD 0INT.

 

Again, I'm not saying this is the best way to compare players, but you can't point at stats to claim their method is hogwash because it's really not a results-driven methodology.

Now I understand how Tre White is the 18th best CB in the NFL.  Thanks.

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This is from the Athletic so you gotta pay, but they actually get into the weeds on how they grade players, I still think it's garbage but here is a snippet about Josh Allen:

 

If the grading system simply plucked from the stats, it wouldn’t be much of a system at all. Those who are trained in Pro Football Focus’ grading system get a 350-page manual on what to look for at each position. Players are assigned a score on each play up to +2 or as low as -2 in increments of 0.5. The scores are determined by attempting to isolate the quarterback’s play from those around him. A quarterback still gets credit for a good throw if a receiver drops a pass. Conversely, if a defensive back drops an interception, the quarterback is still penalized for the throw. While it’s subjective in some ways, it’s not guess work. They’re basing a grade on having watched thousands of plays across the league over many years.

 

Let’s use Allen as an example. He threw for 417 yards and four touchdowns. He pushed the ball down the field and made some challenging throws. If Stefon Diggs is running wide open, Diggs might get more of the credit for a big play in the passing game than Allen would in PFF’s grading system. On Sunday, Allen had two passes that were nearly intercepted. One would have been an easy pick six. Those dropped his grade slightly.

“We grade positives and negatives,” Palazzolo said. “He has more positively graded plays through two weeks than any other quarterback. It’s easy to remember those and forget the negatives. Because through two weeks, the negatives just haven’t come back to bite him.

“I don’t think people understand how we do it, because we’re just grading production and how you played. We’re not grading velocity on the ball necessarily or knee bend by a left tackle. So a lot of people can’t comprehend it.”

 

 

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"Those who are trained in Pro Football Focus’ grading system get a 350-page manual on what to look for at each position. Players are assigned a score on each play up to +2 or as low as -2 in increments of 0.5."

 

Thats the only new information.  And why don't they factor things like velocity?  That's an important weapon he uses to be more effective.  Firing balls through tight windows can be huge and should be scored highly rather than docked for being "risky".

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Doesn't matter the grading system used it's all subjective. 2 people can look at the same play and grade it differently. I do believe PFF ratings are more accurate than not but they're not 100% accurate. It's a useful tool but not facts. I don't know why fans can't leave it at that.

 

Allen is playing better and his grade is showing that improvement. I think it's fair. I remember Jairius Byrd back in the day use to be a major topic because PFF didn't rate his 9 int rookie year very high. Truth is he was pretty lucky that year and didn't do much else. As he improved as an overall safety so did his PFF grade. 

Edited by Buffalo_Stampede

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You can’t argue he has been lucky with multiple dropped interceptions in his past 2 and even 3 games going back to the wild card. He still looks much better this season and is basically our entire offense so far. 

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Every QB has dropped interceptions. Every QB air mails a ball every now and then. Mahomes did the exact same thing Josh did last week and missed a wide open guy in the EZ by 5 yards. So what, they all do it. Only Allen gets dissected to the degree that he does with armchair analysts trying to prop up their pre-draft conclusions. PFF is the worst they can go blow a goat and get off the Josh Allen train now that it’s left the station. Those guys did everything in their power to support a crap narrative and are not unbiased in the least. 

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The last line of the PFF quote talking about their QB rating system is stupendously condescending, “So a lot of people can’t comprehend it.”  Meaning of course that they are simply too intelligent there at PFF and the typical football fan is too ignorant to grasp their genius.

 

If PFF’s formula says that Josh Allen’s 417 yard, 4 TD, 0 INT, 70% completion rate performance last week was graded as the twelfth best QB performance last week, just take our word for it because you are too stupid to understand the complexities of why Sam Darnold dumpster fire performance was better.

 

Instead of looking at their results and realizing there is no way Darnold’s performance was better than Allen’s, and that their methods must be fatally flawed to reach that conclusion, they ask us to ignore our own eyes and just take it on faith that they know more than we do. 

 

Their QB rating system is obviously a joke and PFF are a bunch of clowns.

 

 

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page 259...

 

If the player has fans that will be outraged we should lower his grade for clicks.  Take the Bills fans for example, they really love football so trolling always pays off there.  Just tell them that some random scrub is better than their guy, then sit back and wait.  Clicks are clicks.

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You actually paid the Athletic for this ?

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55 minutes ago, Chemical said:

You can’t argue he has been lucky with multiple dropped interceptions in his past 2 and even 3 games going back to the wild card. He still looks much better this season and is basically our entire offense so far. 

Which one's?  I know you will say the out to Diggs where the lineman timed his leap well and made a very good play.  We see this constantly and most batted passes are not intercepted.  

 

The narrative will always be with Allen that an incompletion verifies he is inaccurate.  

 

So hitting Diggs or Brown on 40+ yard bombs rate low because they were open and he hit them with perfect throws?😜

 

Anyone have video of Darnold's week 2 masterpiece that rated higher.  

 

Yes PFF is much smarter then us.

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So they admit that they make stats up on events that didn’t happen, and then assign importants to those things that didn’t happen when rating players/teams, and then pretended that it’s hard to understand... what a bunch of azs hats... I guess if you tell yourself this stuff frequently enough you start believing it’s true...

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2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

So they admit that they make stats up on events that didn’t happen, and then assign importants to those things that didn’t happen when rating players/teams, and then pretended that it’s hard to understand... what a bunch of azs hats... I guess if you tell yourself this stuff frequently enough you start believing it’s true...


The fact people bring up PFF on this site still after they mentioned Duck in the same breathe as Josh, is the issue that needs 350 pages of understanding.

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It's 350 pages so it must be good!

 

It is ok, most people really do not have a grasp on sampling and statistical modelling yet conclusions are drawn and systems are implemented based on such shoddy science. We see it almost every day now. PFF is a prime example.

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4 hours ago, BruceVilanch said:

“He has more positively graded plays through two weeks than any other quarterback.

So the fact that he has more positive graded plays than any other qb but is still ranked lower than 11 other qb means they are adding bias to their system then doesn't it? 

 

tenor.gif

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This is them literally confessing that their bs is subjective while saying “but we’re smarter than you, so it’s definitely right.” 

 

Screw PFF. 

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4 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

"Those who are trained in Pro Football Focus’ grading system get a 350-page manual on what to look for at each position. Players are assigned a score on each play up to +2 or as low as -2 in increments of 0.5."

 

Thats the only new information.  And why don't they factor things like velocity?  That's an important weapon he uses to be more effective.  Firing balls through tight windows can be huge and should be scored highly rather than docked for being "risky".

 

Because TB12 has a noodle arm ;)

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As a general rule, if you justify your method for doing anything by saying it’s so complex that only you can understand it, you should look at simplifying your method.

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Live look at PFF employees every time someone grades Josh Allen

Dog Shitting GIFs | Tenor

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