Another Bills reporter trying to make himself the story

[LeviF]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Agreed ?.  MLJ is the reporter, you can ask follow ups.  If he wasn’t happy with the answer, reframe it and push back a bit, but to do what he did is everything wrong with journalism these days.  
 

 

 

Right?  Why bag on him on Twitter instead of asking a follow up?

[Jauronimo]

7 minutes ago, Muppy said:

all this response from MLJ says to me is he isn't a Christian. If he were he would realize that as has been mentioned what Fromm stated was scriptural.

 

quoted from the NIV .

 

All this post says to me is that you can dodge a question with some vaguely spiritual crap and that will be above reproach for many people.

 

MLJ: What do you have to say about throwing 6 INTs today in a blowout loss?

 

Fromm:  Thou shalt protect thy father and honor no one above him unless it beith me, thy sweet Lord!

 

MLJ: That's a ***** answer.

 

Bills Fans: Marcel is a heretic!

Edited August 7, 2020 by Jauronimo

[nucci]

Just now, DFT said:

Please don’t take my comments out of context, I didn’t think you were. I just wanted to make sure my response was well worded since text can be misinterpreted. By no means did I mean that derogatory towards you.  It’s a good conversation.  ?

We're good. I didn't take it that way. Thanks

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 minutes ago, nucci said:

what if you don't believe in Jesus?

Then you pronounce it hay-suess and are referring to my friend I’m on a teams work call with right now about weekly performance metrics. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, DFT said:

2 things...

 

1.  Freedom of religion.  Your choice.

2.  Respect the choice.  Like when someone quotes it instead of getting political.

 

my opinion...  This reporter is not respecting his answer.  But his answer is based on his faith.   Therefore it would seem that the reporter is not respecting his faith.  Again, my opinion, but if you’re going to demean a person because you feel they’re not respectful of something, You shouldn’t do it by showing disrespect towards them.

A big part of the problem (and as someone who loves God is catholic) are there are a lot of BS people who use their religion as a crutch and make it political.  

[DFT]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

All this post says to me is that you can dodge a question with some vaguely spiritual crap and that will be above reproach for many people.

 

MLJ: What do you have to say about throwing 6 INTs today in a blowout loss?

 

Fromm:  Thou shalt protect thy father and honor no one above him unless it beith me, thy sweet Lord!

 

MLJ: That's a ***** answer.

 

Bills Fans: Marcel is a heretic!

 Unfortunately, this country is at war with itself because people are demanding to be both heard, respected and treated as equals (rightfully!!!). You can’t make those demands if you are not prepared to do the same towards everyone. When you take someone’s belief and title it “spiritual crap“, well my friend, that’s a problem.

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

A big part of the problem (and as someone who loves God is catholic) are there are a lot of BS people who use their religion as a crutch and make it political.  

 Oh I definitely agree! I just don’t see an ounce of that happening here. Quite the opposite, Jake said he didn’t wanna get into politics and instead quoted directly from Scripture. In Christian terms, he’s relying on the word and instruction. Interpretation is the right of all of course, but I don’t see the issues that this reporter is trying to raise. Quite the opposite. Again, just my opinion though. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by DFT

[YoloinOhio]

I am not sure if marcel thought through his tweet before he sent it, but his comment is actually non-inclusive and comes off as dismissive of who Fromm is. Obviously these two people are very different. But diversity and inclusion doesn’t just go one way. 

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, DFT said:

 Unfortunately, this country is at war with itself because people are demanding to be both heard, respected and treated as equals (rightfully!!!). You can’t make those demands if you are not prepared to do the same towards everyone. When you take someone’s belief and title it “spiritual crap“, well my friend, that’s a problem.

 Oh I definitely agree! I just don’t see an ounce of that happening here. Quite the opposite, Jake said he didn’t wanna get into politics and instead quoted directly from Scripture. In Christian terms, he’s relying on the word and instruction. Interpretation is the right of all of course, but I don’t see the issues that this reporter is trying to raise. Quite the opposite. Again, just my opinion though. 

Fromm's response was pure crap.  Love God first and people second??  You act like hes quoting the sermon on the mound.   He used his faith as a shield to avoid a difficult question and some act like any string of words remotely spiritual is sacred text.  He basically said "Jesus is just alright with me, jesus is just alright oh yeah".

 

 

[whatdrought]

25 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

This could not possibly be deduced from the actual text. Where does he disagree with Fromm's worldview?  

 

Marcel doesn't like Fromm's answer because Fromm dodged the question entirely.  Marcel believes its "unacceptable" but I don't think Fromm owes him or anyone else a better response.  He could certainly help himself by giving a real answer, however.  

 

so you’re saying Marcel doesn’t believe that loving each other is a proper answer?...

[BullBuchanan]

Fromm said some very concrete and problematic things to start all of this, so a little bit of follow up has to be expected.

With respect to a vague question about his thoughts on "what the country is going through", he's completely within his rights to say that he doesn't want to broadcast his political opinions. That's fine, and honestly it's a stupid question for the reporter to ask unsolicited.

It appears the motivation here is to see whether Fromm has changed his perspective or whether he just regrets having his feeling be made public. Too much of a leap for the reporter here, though. He should have just come straight to the point about what steps Fromm's taken and challenged that directly if there was an issue. 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[DFT]

6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Fromm's response was pure crap.  Love God first and people second??  You act like hes quoting the sermon on the mound.   He used his faith as a shield to avoid a difficult question and some act like any string of words remotely spiritual is sacred text.  He basically said "Jesus is just alright with me, jesus is just alright oh yeah".

 

 

 See how much you have to stretch out his actual comments to fit what you are trying to imply he said, did or meant?  Why make a loose interpretation out of one that is so literal?   He did quote Jesus.   It was the short and sweet version from that scripture.   He recited not just scripture, but Jesus’s COMMANDMENTS.  That’s what you referenced as “spiritual crap“.  His actual faith.  That’s a problem.  

Edited August 7, 2020 by DFT

[Freak-O]

Fromm was asked a few questions and in NONE of his replies he actively supported LGBTQ rights, denounced Hitler or insisted women are biologically identical to men. I find this very offensive and he is a bad, bad person!

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I am not sure if marcel thought through his tweet before he sent it, but his comment is actually non-inclusive and comes off as dismissive of who Fromm is. Obviously these two people are very different. But diversity and inclusion doesn’t just go one way. 

unless I’m missing something - Fromm answered that he learned his lesson but gave a pretty darn weak explanation of what that lesson was.

 

its fair to call that out.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

A big part of the problem (and as someone who loves God is catholic) are there are a lot of BS people who use their religion as a crutch and make it political.  

Exactly right. Like a Pharisee--making it all about outward show/appearances rather than meaningful substance. Jesus specifically called them out on that. 

[Peter]

The kid is in a difficult position.

 

He texted a very stupid thing.  There is no getting around that.  I cannot say what is in his heart. How he treats people probably is more indicative.

 

Nevertheless, with everything that is going on, I suspect that no matter how he responded, someone would take offense. 

[Warcodered]

Not for nothing but we never got the full context from those texts either the whole thing just got sat on.

 

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Fromm's response was pure crap.  Love God first and people second??  You act like hes quoting the sermon on the mound.   He used his faith as a shield to avoid a difficult question and some act like any string of words remotely spiritual is sacred text.  He basically said "Jesus is just alright with me, jesus is just alright oh yeah".

 

 

Right and we're just going to ignore that he essentially came out and said that he didn't want to step in this political mess right from the top? MLJ is free to push him more on his response or hell just say he would of wanted him to give more of an answer. What MLJ did was take that non answer and say it was terrible which how can a not answer be terrible it isn't anything.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

so you’re saying Marcel doesn’t believe that loving each other is a proper answer?...

No, thats actually what you're saying. 

 

Marcel is saying Fromm, given his leaked texts, owes everyone a real answer as to what he believes about the protests and social justice issues and not some generalized statements about loving God.  I do not agree that Marcel or the public is entitled to a full answer but lets not pretend Fromm didn't dodge the question when he specifically says the last thing he is going to do is get political.

 

“There’s a lot of things going on and the last thing I want to do is get political in any sort of way, but I think the world would be a better place if we can love God first and then love people.”

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, DFT said:

 See how much you have to stretch out his actual comments to fit what you are trying to imply he said? He did quote Jesus.   It was the short and sweet version from that scripture.   He recited not just scripture, but Jesus’s COMMANDMENTS.  That’s what you referenced as “spiritual crap“.  His actual faith.  That’s a problem.  

in context of what he was addressing it wasn’t a terribly appropriate answer. He punted and used faith as a shield instead of using it as a moral structure behind explaining what he learned

[DFT]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

unless I’m missing something - Fromm answered that he learned his lesson but gave a pretty darn weak explanation of what that lesson was.

 

its fair to call that out.

Yes, you’re missing something.  The  question wasn’t asked, “what did you learn”.   The question was to give his opinion on what this country has faced recently.   

 

 

[eball]

39 minutes ago, DFT said:

There’s a lot of things going on and the last thing I want to do is get political in any sort of way, but I think the world would be a better place if we can love God first and then love people.

 

I don’t agree with your interpretation at all. We are talking about a persons faith. His answer was based on his faith and points directly towards loving people. Where we get into the weeds is where people say “he makes it sound”.  There’s a literal indication he says “We should love people “.  In no way does he stipulate that they have to be of his faith. It wasn’t said or indicated and shouldn’t be interpreted that way. Just my opinion and no disrespect to you whatsoever.

 

That's cool, I didn't have a strong reaction either way.  It's just how it came across to me.  I'll never understand the logic of extremely religious people so their message is largely lost on me.  I'm more of a "do the right thing because it's the right thing to do" kind of guy.

[Don Otreply]

All people to include Marcel and Jake are shades of good and bad as it were. Those that judge Marcel on a public forum are doing the same as Marcel is doing to Jake.  Jake brought this upon himself, Playing the  redneck whitey game, he is reaping what he sowed. Jake may very well be a good guy, but he might try loving others first, because really, who cares about his version of the christian deity, there are so many to keep track of.  Actions speak louder than words Jake needs to take it to heart as do we all. Here’s to hoping we all become better people ?
 

Go Bills!!!

[LeviF]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

in context of what he was addressing it wasn’t a terribly appropriate answer. He punted and used faith as a shield instead of using it as a moral structure behind explaining what he learned

 

He wasn't really asked about the texts or his attitudes either though, he was asked about the "things that have happened in this country" over the past couple months.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

No, thats actually what you're saying. 

 

Marcel is saying Fromm, given his leaked texts, owes everyone a real answer as to what he believes about the protests and social justice issues and not some generalized statements about loving God.  I do not agree that Marcel or the public is entitled to a full answer but lets not pretend Fromm didn't dodge the question when he specifically says the last thing he is going to do is get political.

 

“There’s a lot of things going on and the last thing I want to do is get political in any sort of way, but I think the world would be a better place if we can love God first and then love people.”

But didn't he do that before already? 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-jake-fromm-apologizes-for-leaked-text-theres-no-excuse-for-that-word-choice-and-sentiment/

 

From the article: "I am extremely sorry that I chose to use the words 'elite white people' in a text message conversation," Fromm wrote in his statement. "Although I never meant to imply that I am an 'elite white person,' as stated later in the conversation, there's no excuse for that word choice and sentiment. While it was poor, my heart is not. Now, more than ever, is the time for support and togetherness and I stand against racism 100%. I promise to commit myself to being a part of the solution in this country. I addressed my teammates and coaches in a team meeting today and I hope they see this incident is not representative of the person I am. Again, I'm truly sorry for my words and actions and humbly ask for forgiveness."

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, DFT said:

Yes, you’re missing something.  The  question wasn’t asked, “what did you learn”.   The question was to give his opinion on what this country has faced recently.   

 

 

your missing that in the context of a conversation about what he got himself into with a racially questionable comment and him talking about his big difficult conversations and then transitioning to what do you think about the racial issues going on... his answer by very definition is going to be showcasing what he’s learned.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

But didn't he do that before already? 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-jake-fromm-apologizes-for-leaked-text-theres-no-excuse-for-that-word-choice-and-sentiment/

 

From the article: "I am extremely sorry that I chose to use the words 'elite white people' in a text message conversation," Fromm wrote in his statement. "Although I never meant to imply that I am an 'elite white person,' as stated later in the conversation, there's no excuse for that word choice and sentiment. While it was poor, my heart is not. Now, more than ever, is the time for support and togetherness and I stand against racism 100%. I promise to commit myself to being a part of the solution in this country. I addressed my teammates and coaches in a team meeting today and I hope they see this incident is not representative of the person I am. Again, I'm truly sorry for my words and actions and humbly ask for forgiveness."

No.  Where in quote above did he give his opinion on current events?

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

Those that judge Marcel on a public forum are doing the same as Marcel is doing to Jake.

I mean we don't work for ESPN and we don't have a blue checkmark. We're fans talking in a message board on the outskirts of the internet.

[DFT]

Just now, NoSaint said:

in context of what he was addressing it wasn’t a terribly appropriate answer. He punted and used faith as a shield instead of using it as a moral structure behind explaining what he learned

That makes sense if you don’t respect the Christian faith.    Because the Christian faith says that Christ is a Christians refuge. That nullifies the “using faith as a shield” argument.   And that’s exactly what’s happening in the world today. People have become so thirsty to oppose a very real evil (intolerance) that their anger helps them  become exactly what they oppose in the process - intolerant.  Not respecting his stance in a statement made through faith is intolerance no matter how any of us try to sway it.

 

Jake admitted his wrongdoing. I doubt those that are condemning his response and showing their own intolerance to faith will admit their mistakes in the same accord.

 

 

[Logic]

Fromm’s lack of self awareness and respect for the serious and complex nature of the issues at hand at this moment in history are not unique.

 

His blindness and obliviousness in this instance reflects the blindness and obliviousness of many in this country.

 

Hopefully, he does some self reflection and realizes that “everyone should love God”, while a fine idea, is not in itself a sufficient answer to the question of “how can we foster meaningful change to the problems of systemic racism and endemic white supremacy”.

[whatdrought]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

No, thats actually what you're saying. 

 

Marcel is saying Fromm, given his leaked texts, owes everyone a real answer as to what he believes about the protests and social justice issues and not some generalized statements about loving God.  I do not agree that Marcel or the public is entitled to a full answer but lets not pretend Fromm didn't dodge the question when he specifically says the last thing he is going to do is get political.

 

“There’s a lot of things going on and the last thing I want to do is get political in any sort of way, but I think the world would be a better place if we can love God first and then love people.”

 

You’re missing Fromm’s point. He’s saying he isn’t going to get into details because he’s learned his lesson about speaking without thinking. So he offers a basic answer and a guide by which he aspires to live his life. 
 

Marcel doesn’t believe his guide is valid, or else he’d see it as an appropriate response. He’s demanding more. He doesn’t believe that simply seeking to love one another is a good enough response for some stupid mistakes. 

[uticaclub]

I still think it was ridiculous those texts were an issue to begin with. How many black guys that got drafted had questionable texts from years past? What was Fromm suppose to say? “This Marxist organization terrorizing communities isn’t the way to make any changes or OK, What do you want?” 

Edited August 7, 2020 by uticaclub

[DFT]

5 minutes ago, eball said:

 

That's cool, I didn't have a strong reaction either way.  It's just how it came across to me.  I'll never understand the logic of extremely religious people so their message is largely lost on me.  I'm more of a "do the right thing because it's the right thing to do" kind of guy.

 And I respect your response immensely!   The world needs more of this exact response and I say that with the upmost sincerity!  ?

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

 

He wasn't really asked about the texts or his attitudes either though, he was asked about the "things that have happened in this country" over the past couple months.  

how do you separate this:

 

Spoke to Bills QB Jake Fromm, who insisted he's had many difficult conversations over the past few months since his "elite white people" texts surfaced. He said he's starting to see the world in a new perspective. Also insists that text is not indicative of who he is as a person

 

 

from his answer to what he thinks of the issues of the last few months? I’m not trying to cancel him or anything but obviously I’m an ideal answer he’d have a bit more content than love god and each other if he’s had many important conversations on race 

[Long Suffering Fan]

Thank you to everyone that has kept this discussion civil.  I have actually enjoyed this thread instead of clicking off of it.  

 

Quote

 

MLJ: What do you have to say about throwing 6 INTs today in a blowout loss?

Fromm:  Thou shalt protect thy father and honor no one above him unless it beith me, thy sweet Lord!

 

 

That is not a completely fair comparison.  I also hate it with a passion when people hypocritically hide behind their faith.  It bothers me at a level that I can not fully describe.  The example you gave is someone completely changing the subject and dodging the question.

 

Fromm's response was actually on point.  If everyone just followed Jesus' command (whether they believed in Him or not) and loved people as much as they loved themselves, there would be no racism in this world.  If Fromm had been living what he quoted, he would have never sent out those original texts.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, Peter said:

The kid is in a difficult position.

 

He texted a very stupid thing.  There is no getting around that.  I cannot say what is in his heart. How he treats people probably is more indicative.

 

Nevertheless, with everything that is going on, I suspect that no matter how he responded, someone would take offense. 

Agree with this too.  This is a complete non story.

[Don Otreply]

Just now, Warcodered said:

I mean we don't work for ESPN and we don't have a blue checkmark. We're fans talking in a message board on the outskirts of the internet.

I mean It is the same none the less. The scale of views is the only difference. The action is the same. 

[DFT]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

your missing that in the context of a conversation about what he got himself into with a racially questionable comment and him talking about his big difficult conversations and then transitioning to what do you think about the racial issues going on... his answer by very definition is going to be showcasing what he’s learned.

 You really had to stretch the actual conversation to fit all of the things you were expecting from the conversation. So if I’m to look at that intelligently, it looks like you were expecting something to come from a conversation just like the reporter was expecting. That’s not wrong. What’s wrong is condemning Jake’s response because it didn’t fit what you were expecting. He still deserves to have his faith respected just as he deserves to be expected to respect others. 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, NoSaint said:

how do you separate this:

 

Spoke to Bills QB Jake Fromm, who insisted he's had many difficult conversations over the past few months since his "elite white people" texts surfaced. He said he's starting to see the world in a new perspective. Also insists that text is not indicative of who he is as a person

 

 

from his answer to what he thinks of the issues of the last few months? I’m not trying to cancel him or anything but obviously I’m an ideal answer he’d have a bit more content than love god and each other if he’s had many important conversations on race 

It's ok to see a correlation there, but I don't think it's Fromm's responsibility to do so. I say this as someone who's extremely opposed to what he said. The reporter needs to ask a better and more direct question, not try to connect dots.

[Doc Brown]

Does he have enough arm strength to send Barkley packing?  That's all I care about.

[eball]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

Does he have enough arm strength to send Barkley packing?  That's all I care about.

 

God willing.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

No.  Where in quote above did he give his opinion on current events?

"Now, more than ever, is the time for support and togetherness and I stand against racism 100%. I promise to commit myself to being a part of the solution in this country." I take that to mean that he's in solidarity with the themes driving the national re-examination of racial issues. I understand you may disagree that he's still not being specific enough, but if the place that you start from as a worldview isn't built on the right foundation (we are all born equal under the sun and should be treated as such), then all the rest is just window-dressing as far as I'm concerned. I do think that Fromm's acceptance by his teammates (if that's what's been happening) will speak very loudly on that point of whether or not he's being authentic. Again, just imo.