Is now the time to remove OJ Simpson from the wall of fame and HOF?

[Augie]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

It’s a BS argument to say “we can’t agree on where the line should be so we can’t use a line”.  “I don’t think there should be a moral component” or “the line should be here” are valid arguments, however.  That holds whether or not I agree with them. 
 

I’m embarrassed to have OJ on our Wall of Honor.  I’d be embarrassed to have Ray Lewis, Aaron Hernandez or a number of other people on there too.  As you point out, 3 out of 4 people voting in the poll don’t have a problem with it.  That’s their opinion and while they are welcome to it, it doesn’t quite jibe with the outrage I see so often for players on other teams for doing almost nothing comparatively.  I mean, how do you complain about Brady deflating some footballs when you’re cool with keeping a dirtbag like Simpson (armed robbery and kidnapping convictions on top of that double murder thing) on your wall?  I can’t bring myself to do it.  I’ll just leave my part in this conversation at that. 

 

Now you’re misinterpreting (at best) what I’m saying completely. I never said I like it, I just wouldn’t take action.  If a new stadium were to go up and he wasn’t recognized there, I’m fine with that. I wouldn’t do anything to draw attention to his removal, especially at this point in time. 

 

I try not to play the morality judge. I think in many respects, he’s a despicable human being. What Brady (supposedly) did affected the game, on the field. During his career. He cheated the game. (I really think that was more Belichick and fumble related, but I digress.)

 

What if OJ never killed anyone (again, he was never convicted in criminal court), but it was later learned that he beat his wife decades after his career? Is he out then? Jim Brown had some serious problems in his personal life. Is he out of the HOF too? He may have been the best/most dominant player ever. How about Michael Irvin or Marvin Harrison? Do we banish them in some way? This is a long, long list. Should Lawrence Taylor be erased? He’s part of the history of the game, even with all his flaws. The HOF would have to rent out a lot of empty space is you want to play character police.  Eventually what you are left with is the Hall Of Well Behaved. 

 

Once you start this, you realize it’s just not practical to judge for off the field incidents, even bad ones, especially long after their careers, IMO. You can have your opinion, but again....where do we draw the line and who plays judge?  

 

I may not LIKE the people or the behavior, but if you judge one you have to judge all. Where is the line? 

 

 

 

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Edited June 9, 2020 by Augie

[Steve Billieve]

I don't want to actually remove him and make a story.  But if the Bills ever get a new stadium, it would be OK if they maybe forgot to make room for him at the new place.  Like a box of old clothes in the attic that you know won't fit you.

[Don Otreply]

It is a bit of a conundrum actually, Before OJ went insane, he was a hall of fame running back, he retired, did some rental car company commercials, etc, then he went bat sh-t crazy and murdered his ex wife and her lover/ partner, then he cleverly got away with it and did other crazy azs sh-t, so there you have it, arguments have been made on behalf of both camps on every Bills board that has ever existed. 
 

I agree with the guy, “Steve believe” above this post. I think the Football hall of fame should do something similar as well...  OJ is after all the poster child of weak men getting away with domestic abuse violence, an on going theme in our country... 
 

Go Bills!!!

Edited June 10, 2020 by Don Otreply

[NewEra]

I voted to keep him based on his time as a Buffalo Bill.

[Mr. WEO]

Has he had anything to do with Buffalo since he left?

[Don Otreply]

37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Has he had anything to do with Buffalo since he left?

Not that I have noticed, never heard him say a word about Buffalo that I can remember... but hell my memory is starting it’s 62nd year, there’s lots stuff in there that doesn’t need to be recalled...

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Not that I have noticed, never heard him say a word about Buffalo that I can remember... but hell my memory is starting it’s 62nd year, there’s lots stuff in there that doesn’t need to be recalled...

 

I"m only 5 years behind!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Dont care

[LB48]

9 hours ago, Augie said:

Remove? Keep? Yes? No? 

 

I can’t vote. I looked at the results and I don’t even know what they mean. I think I know what the intent was, but don’t make me guess. 

 

This is why I’m not an autograph or jersey guy. These are just people, some more flawed than others, and we have no idea to what degree. I’ll cheer for our guys on the field. I don’t know what they are like as people. 

 

9 hours ago, Augie said:

Remove? Keep? Yes? No? 

 

I can’t vote. I looked at the results and I don’t even know what they mean. I think I know what the intent was, but don’t make me guess. 

 

This is why I’m not an autograph or jersey guy. These are just people, some more flawed than others, and we have no idea to what degree. I’ll cheer for our guys on the field. I don’t know what they are like as people. 

AMEN!   Who knows how the CURRENT Bills think or what they believe in!  It is NOT important to me.  It's a game that amuses millions of people.  A game and not relevant to real life.

[Bubba Gump]

Nope. Everything he did with the Bills happened decades before he turned into a nutcase. 

[Ralonzo]

46 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

Nope. Everything he did with the Bills happened decades before he turned into a nutcase. 

 

Has anyone ever argued CTE on OJ's behalf? Has nobody made that connection?

[GregPersons]

3 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Has anyone ever argued CTE on OJ's behalf? Has nobody made that connection?

 

It's been argued. It's hard to say unless OJ has his brain examined which I don't think he has done. Based on everything we know on CTE, he definitely would suffer from it.

 

Anyway I don't think OJ's name should be removed from either. If he were convicted for the murders, they would've probably been removed. But even though he obviously did it, there's no great justification for it, other than... y'know, it's embarrassing for the Bills. He's one of the top 5 players in team history, easily, in terms of individual accomplishments.

[JMF2006]

Where is the "Erect a Bronzed White Bronco next to Ralphs Statue" option?  

 

[njbuff]

Maybe they can replace OJ with Ko on the wall.

 

After all Ko Simpson is worth millions himself.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, GregPersons said:

 

It's been argued. It's hard to say unless OJ has his brain examined which I don't think he has done. Based on everything we know on CTE, he definitely would suffer from it.

 

Anyway I don't think OJ's name should be removed from either. If he were convicted for the murders, they would've probably been removed. But even though he obviously did it, there's no great justification for it, other than... y'know, it's embarrassing for the Bills. He's one of the top 5 players in team history, easily, in terms of individual accomplishments.

 

Yeah, he's really suffering...

 

[GregPersons]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Yeah, he's really suffering...

 

Not sure if you're aware of this, but you can't really identify brain diseases with these kinds of photos. You're going to need a CAT scan or something similar. Just in case you thought you might be making a good point with these, you weren't. Thanks for the images though, looks like he's doing well, which doesn't mean he doesn't have CTE.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, GregPersons said:

 

Not sure if you're aware of this, but you can't really identify brain diseases with these kinds of photos. You're going to need a CAT scan or something similar. Just in case you thought you might be making a good point with these, you weren't. Thanks for the images though, looks like he's doing well, which doesn't mean he doesn't have CTE.

 

He suffers from no debilitating neurological disorder--even as an old man.  The topic is whether a debilitating brain injury led him, 26 years ago, to butcher his wife and another.

 

There is no imaging mode for detecting evidence of traumatic brain disease.  PET scan looked promising, but no.

[GregPersons]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He suffers from no debilitating neurological disorder--even as an old man.  The topic is whether a debilitating brain injury led him, 26 years ago, to butcher his wife and another.

 

There is no imaging mode for detecting evidence of traumatic brain disease.  PET scan looked promising, but no.

 

Fair enough, although — do we know enough about CTE to say he definitely does not have it, because he seems to be in fine health? Does it necessarily lead to decreased motor function in everyone?

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

Fair enough, although — do we know enough about CTE to say he definitely does not have it, because he seems to be in fine health? Does it necessarily lead to decreased motor function in everyone?

 

It's a wide range of physical and mental illnesses that result.  No doubt his brain on autopsy would show he has tau protein in high amounts.  But CTE is really a clinical diagnosis.  Like an asymptomatic COVID patient does not have COVID flu.  You can't say an individual suffers from CTE if they have no symptoms from it.

[GregPersons]

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

It's a wide range of physical and mental illnesses that result.  No doubt his brain on autopsy would show he has tau protein in high amounts.  But CTE is really a clinical diagnosis.  Like an asymptomatic COVID patient does not have COVID flu.  You can't say an individual suffers from CTE if they have no symptoms from it.

 

Right. Well I think the theory goes that his erratic behavior is an indicator; mood swings like beating his wife and murdering two people and then less disastrous but some erratic behavior since then. To be clear though, I'm 100% speculating and I really have no idea — I thought you were just taking the piss with the photos but you seem to know what you're talking about, I believe you. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by GregPersons

[blacklabel]

I've felt his name should've been torn off the wall long ago. The HOF isn't anything the Bills have control over, so who knows what would happen there. But yeah, I wish they'd remove that skidmark from their history.

[Jobot]

It has always been time to remove OJ from any wall of fame every since he murdered Nicole Brown.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Jobot

[Jobot]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Since you’re going political, let me clear one thing up.  There is no racial issue in America.  
 

This is about cops and their overaggressive, militarized tactics. 
 

The left is using this event to further push their fake agenda. 

 

Although you might be partially right (as I just read a WSJ article on the topic).. Understand that this is not a proven fact, and you certainly cannot just blanket it across all situations.  Please be mindful that this opinion can anger other people who have dealt with personal experiences that you do not understand.

 

I based on statistics I've read on actual killings, it appears that the racial bias is not as bad as it seems.. BUT, i have not seen, or know if statistics on general harrassment from police force to people of color have been normalized to assess.  ALSO - there are statistics showing problems beyond just the Police.  I'd reccomend researching statistics on conviction rates and prison sentances for the same crime (white vs black) before assuming that this problem is distilled down to only police brutality.

[SoTier]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:14 AM, thenorthremembers said:

Kelly beat and cheated on his wife, Bruce Smith had a cocaine issue, and Daryl Talley has had such fits of anger that his wife and kids were scared for their lives, should they be off too?

 

And thats just what the public knows.   Every one of the guys listed on the wall of fame had some sort of issue.  I know this because they are humans.   They are on the wall because of what they did on the field not for what they did off the field.

 

Honestly, what we should do is never celebrate another human ever.  No more statues, no more awards, no more nothing because no one is perfect.  O.J. is far less than that as a human.   But the best idea is just remove everyone now from every wall and hall of fame, this way we dont have to ask these questions when they fail at being perfect.

 

On 6/9/2020 at 9:15 AM, Buffalo Timmy said:

My question is why ask about it now? The only thing he might have done that should get him removed he did 25 years ago, and he was not convicted. Simply do not invite him back and leave it alone 

 

What these two posters said.   He''s in the HOF and he's on the Wall.  Leave it be.

[Jobot]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

It was proven in the court of law that he was innocent.
 

It appears OP is suggesting we remove his name because of his race, to reach “racial harmony”.  Which is counter productive hence my “no” vote. 

 

Is that why he lost the civil case to her family and paid millions of dollars?

 

Do some research about how that trial was 'managed' and then come to your own conclusion. The court of law is not the court of mankind.

[Jobot]

1 minute ago, Buffalo619 said:

The left is attempting to create a civil war on race. When the real issue is cops and their over aggressive tactics. Let’s not get distracted from the real point here.

 

Did you read what I wrote? There is data that you are ignoring.

 

ALSO calling it a Civil war on race pisses me off... Whites and Blacks are marching together on this one.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Jobot

[uticaclub]

You're being racist

[Jobot]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

 He is/ was innocent. Any other opinion is false. 

The data is not the point. In reality this has NOTHING to do with race. 

 

Ah, got it, I know who I'm talking with now. Have a nice day.

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Has anyone ever argued CTE on OJ's behalf? Has nobody made that connection?

 

OJ isn't the first ex-husband/boyfriend to kill his ex.  In fact, it's so common that ex-husbands/boyfriends frequently top the list of suspects whenever a woman is murdered or disappears under mysterious circumstances.   From my memory of the well publicized murder trial, there was never any testimony by anyone claiming that  OJ displayed erratic behavior that might, in hindsight, be considered symptomatic of CTE.  He did demonstrate anger and a willingness to threaten his ex wife.

 

[SoTier]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

The left is attempting to create a civil war on race. When the real issue is cops and their over aggressive tactics. Let’s not get distracted from the point here. The majority of America have no racist thoughts or negative opinions of minorities.  

 

This is simply untrue.  The only groups that have been shown to trying to inflame a "race war" have been some white supremacist groups, which are part of "the Right" not "the Left".

 

Moreover, who made you an expert on what the "majority of America" thinks about anything?

[Sundancer]

Hitler was a pretty decent painter. I collect his pre-Nazi works because it wouldn't be right to collect the post-Nazi works. 

 

Come on. The answer to "Is now the right time to remove OJ" is ALWAYS and ONLY "YES." 

 

We are paying homage, totally optionally, to a double murdering wife beater. And that's not even all of his crimes. 

22 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

OJ isn't the first ex-husband/boyfriend to kill his ex.  In fact, it's so common that ex-husbands/boyfriends frequently top the list of suspects whenever a woman is murdered or disappears under mysterious circumstances.   From my memory of the well publicized murder trial, there was never any testimony by anyone claiming that  OJ displayed erratic behavior that might, in hindsight, be considered symptomatic of CTE.  He did demonstrate anger and a willingness to threaten his ex wife.

 

 

He didn't just threaten her. Before he killed her, he beat her. 

2 hours ago, blacklabel said:

I've felt his name should've been torn off the wall long ago. The HOF isn't anything the Bills have control over, so who knows what would happen there. But yeah, I wish they'd remove that skidmark from their history.

 

You take it down, you get headlines and Tweets for 5 days, everyone moves on. 

[Sundancer]

21 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

Removing the name won't change the circumstance.  Taking a name or statue down does not change anything.

 

No, but it stops giving homage to an undeserving person. And this is a sportsperson--its not like he was a slave-raper who wrote the seminal American document. 

 

OJ ran a football for a few years. Turned out to be a dirtbag. His numbers don't go away. Just our honoring of him does. 

[Rico]

Leave OJ, remove Ralph please.

[Jobot]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

All cops are white supremacists? No. This is nothing more than another hollow attempt of a coup, disguised as a race war.  America is not a racist country, doesn’t matter how many times the news says it, it’s not true.  
 

This is about cops being overaggressive with everyone, including dogs. They need to be regulated and demilitarized NOT defunded. 
 

Thank you. You also. 

 

I doubt you do, and I am only responding because literally.. LOL at your assessment of America right now.  It's like hearing an alcoholic try to convince other people he's not an alcoholic, by saying "I'm not an alcoholic"

[Jobot]

4 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

It’s cool man. Critical thinking skills are required on the level I operate on.  

You shouldn’t label anyone until the problem is defined and established. In your analogy, if the user doesn’t think he is an alcolic then he is NOT. 

I would suggest to stop judging on superficial words and see the big picture. 
 

 

Bud, you were the one that labeled the problem...

[Rocket94]

 During the 70's, OJ was sometimes larger than life in WNY! He was not the same man that he may be now! 

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, thronethinker said:

OJ is god cause he is black and killed a whity. If you disagree you are a racist. 

It’s getting old. You’re convincing people you’re a Russia bot at this point.

[Rob's House]

11 hours ago, Jobot said:

 

Did you read what I wrote? There is data that you are ignoring.

 

ALSO calling it a Civil war on race pisses me off... Whites and Blacks are marching together on this one.

 

The "civil war" is not between the races. Race is the wedge issue being exploited to initiate the conflict. 

 

Just as OJ, who distanced himself from the black community for most of his adult life, exploited race to influence his trial.

 

The real question is, if OJ can get away with murder, why can't Oliver have a few drinks and drive home?

[JoPoy88]

Eh, a push to get OJ off the wall just gives more attention to OJ, which is what he seems to want given his recent twitter history. I would rather just leave him up and not worry about it or him ever again. 

48 minutes ago, K-9 said:

It’s getting old. You’re convincing people you’re a Russia bot at this point.

damn that post you quoted got clipped in record time. Good job mods. ?

[SoTier]

17 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

No, but it stops giving homage to an undeserving person. And this is a sportsperson--its not like he was a slave-raper who wrote the seminal American document. 

 

OJ ran a football for a few years. Turned out to be a dirtbag. His numbers don't go away. Just our honoring of him does. 

 

I don't think that anybody gives "homage" to OJ for the last quarter century.  I think that many like myself don't take pride in the greatest player to ever wear a Bills uniform because he so tarnished his legacy by his later actions.