Rd 5, Pick 167: QB Jake Fromm, Georgia

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You should read this topic. It’s filled with folks calling him trash. Rooting against Bills players is a bad look.

 

Please oh wise one, tell me all the great Georgia QBs in NFL outside of Matt Stafford!  Because remember, big time QBs, from big time schools, who put up big time numbers are guaranteed success in the NFL!   

 

I certainly don't condone trashing Fromm, and I agree its a bad look.  But that doesn't stop the likes of you from trashing your current QB.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[SirAndrew]

3 hours ago, Figster said:

Its a good point and part of the reason why Allen struggles with long ball accuracy IMO. Give him more overall size in his WR corp and I believe we will see a better completion % with long ball throws from Josh Allen. Less of an arc on long balls allows more chances for smaller DB's to make a play and less time for a WR to adjust IMO. Its all fine and good to have the ability to throw with velocity. On the other hand you better have an ability to throw with touch or even the easiest pass plays become a problem.

 

Peyton Manning helped win his last Championship with what most would call a noodle arm because he understood what more arc and touch would give him, made the proper adjustments and played within his limitations in my humble opinion.

 

Smart fella, that Manning...

 

 

Nah, Manning won his last championship because of his defense. He was total trash and got benched for Osweiler that year, who also won games with that D. I’m just saying that Manning was done at that point, and there is a limitation to how much anyone can do with a noodle arm. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by SirAndrew

[Figster]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

Nah, Manning won his last championship because of his defense. He was total trash and got benched for Osweiler that year, who also won games with that D. I’m just saying that Manning was done at that point, and there is a limitation to how much anyone can do with a noodle arm. 

Touche on the Wade Phillips D SirAndrew

 

I said he helped, hehe

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Please oh wise one, tell me all the great Georgia QBs in NFL outside of Matt Stafford!  Because remember, big time QBs, from big time schools, who put up big time numbers are guaranteed success in the NFL!   

 

I certainly don't condone trashing Fromm, and I agree its a bad look.  But that doesn't stop the likes of you from trashing your current QB.

I don’t trash Allen. On the contrary, I like him a lot. I just found your “SEC QB’s fail all the time” argument kinda silly, because all QB’s from every where fail a lot. That’s how it is.

[Ralonzo]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You should read this topic. It’s filled with folks calling him trash. Rooting against Bills players is a bad look.

 

To be fair, I had just spent two hours with friends watching the draft and running down Fromm as a QB that would never make it, and boy I'm gonna laugh when some sucker team wastes a pick on a guy with no arm and no accuracy. My bitterness comes from the amount of **** I've been taking from said friends since the Bills were the ones who selected him, not because I'm rooting against a Buffalo Bills player.

[Iverwig]

I wonder how many on here have watched UGA play a game this year. Fromm was not the same QB as he was in previous years. As a UGA fan I will say Fromm is a great leader, hard worker and as smart as any QB around. With that being said Fromm does not have a strong arm and struggled throwing the ball in bad (rainy) weather. I often wondered if he was injured this year as a lot of his balls hit the dirt before getting to the receivers where that wasn’t an issue in the past. I will add Fromm seemed to regress as a player but I do believe much of his issues was with pressure from UGA fans. However, in the right system he can be a decent QB but I don’t think he will ever be a long term starter. He should be able to unseat Barkley and if he ever has to go in the game upon a Allen injury he will be ready mentally. 

[John from Riverside]

55 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Im happy about the Fromm pick for multiple reasons. 

 

First and foremost is the value.  This was a stellar pick in that round. 

 

Second is youth that can be further developed on what is already a great baseline. 

 

Third, if Allen faulters in anyway be it injury or performance, there is a hungry, capable guy in the pipeline...which is NEVER BAD.  

 

Die hard Allen fans feel threatened by this pick, so of course to them he's some trashy 5th rounder who will never make it.  The funny thing is they couldn't be more wrong and are blinded by ignorance. 

 

Fromm was a great pick and time will tell how great it could be. 

I am a die hard Allen fan and am not threatened by the pick I actually love the pick

 

why? Because we didn’t have to give up a premium pick to get him those picks should imo go to HELPING allen

 

best of all worlds here

[Figster]

6 minutes ago, Iverwig said:

I wonder how many on here have watched UGA play a game this year. Fromm was not the same QB as he was in previous years. As a UGA fan I will say Fromm is a great leader, hard worker and as smart as any QB around. With that being said Fromm does not have a strong arm and struggled throwing the ball in bad (rainy) weather. I often wondered if he was injured this year as a lot of his balls hit the dirt before getting to the receivers where that wasn’t an issue in the past. I will add Fromm seemed to regress as a player but I do believe much of his issues was with pressure from UGA fans. However, in the right system he can be a decent QB but I don’t think he will ever be a long term starter. He should be able to unseat Barkley and if he ever has to go in the game upon a Allen injury he will be ready mentally. 

I think Buffalo has done a real good job of getting Barkely's game back on track.

 

Being a big fan of the QB position I find the Fromm pick a very interesting one and anxious to see how he acclimates to the NFL.

 

 

[Success]

I'm getting that Kelly/Reich vibe with Allen & Fromm.

 

But, I tend to put the most positive spin imaginable on anything Bills-related.

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, Iverwig said:

I wonder how many on here have watched UGA play a game this year. Fromm was not the same QB as he was in previous years. As a UGA fan I will say Fromm is a great leader, hard worker and as smart as any QB around. With that being said Fromm does not have a strong arm and struggled throwing the ball in bad (rainy) weather. I often wondered if he was injured this year as a lot of his balls hit the dirt before getting to the receivers where that wasn’t an issue in the past. I will add Fromm seemed to regress as a player but I do believe much of his issues was with pressure from UGA fans. However, in the right system he can be a decent QB but I don’t think he will ever be a long term starter. He should be able to unseat Barkley and if he ever has to go in the game upon a Allen injury he will be ready mentally. 

 

Didn't Fromm lose 5 of his top receivers and have a new OC last season?

[Figster]

Just now, Success said:

I'm getting that Kelly/Reich vibe with Allen & Fromm.

 

But, I tend to put the most positive spin imaginable on anything Bills-related.

Getting the same vibe and almost posted as much earlier,

 

Sweet...

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I don’t trash Allen. On the contrary, I like him a lot. I just found your “SEC QB’s fail all the time” argument kinda silly, because all QB’s from every where fail a lot. That’s how it is.

 

 Where did I say "SEC QBs fail all the time".  Please show me!

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

 Where did I say "SEC QBs fail all the time".  Please show me!

This doesn’t sound like you’re interested in having any kind of a reasonable discussion. Later

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, FireChans said:

This doesn’t sound like you’re interested in having any kind of a reasonable discussion. Later

 

I'm completely interested.  The poster I was rebutting stated, "Fromm comes from a big boy program, has big boy experience, and big boy numbers to back it up."   I simply asked him, "and that means what exactly…and if that's true, why doesn't Fromm just start."  You actually supported my argument by stating "all QBs from everywhere fail a lot."   You then jabbed at me about Wyoming QBs and I rebutted you to stating how many Georgia QBs have had success in the NFL outside of Matt Stafford, to which you have yet to reply.   If Fromm helps the team great, I am all for it.   Many of the best players in NFL history didn't come from big boy programs.  The point I am trying to get across when people fall back on college stats and college programs, is that college success doesn't equate to NFL success.

[Iverwig]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Didn't Fromm lose 5 of his top receivers and have a new OC last season?

Yes, he did but it’s not like he had chopped liver to work with. He had an experienced TE, Cager was his main go to guy up until he got hurt and Pickens while a freshman was more talented than any receiver UGA ever had since AJ Green. Regardless that had nothing to do with him short arming throws. I hope he does well and makes the active roster but right or wrong there is a reason many UGA fans are happy he left early. I will say while many are happy he left school early most knew he would not be a high draft pick. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Draconator said:

And that's the golden point right there. Fromm may have Peterman's arm, but I believe he certainly doesn't have Peterman's brain. He'll make smarter decisions with the ball. 

 

Isn't that "to be determined"?  The problem, as I perceive it, is that lesser-armed QB can get away with throws in college that they can't, in the NFL.  Even Josh Allen has had to learn "nope.nope.nope, can't fit that in there"

 

So the question with a college QB is always, will he figure that out, and adjust to the throws he can make in the NFL, or won't he?

 

Peterman apparently could not.  Though I guess we could still see him again?

 

14 minutes ago, Iverwig said:

Yes, he did but it’s not like he had chopped liver to work with. He had an experienced TE, Cager was his main go to guy up until he got hurt and Pickens while a freshman was more talented than any receiver UGA ever had since AJ Green. Regardless that had nothing to do with him short arming throws. I hope he does well and makes the active roster but right or wrong there is a reason many UGA fans are happy he left early. I will say while many are happy he left school early most knew he would not be a high draft pick. 

 

Didn't his accuracy drop off about halfway through the season?   Did Fromm perhaps have some kind of injury he was trying to play through?

[BananaB]

Reminds me of McCarron. Limited talent but productive in a school loaded with talent. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Iverwig said:

Yes, he did but it’s not like he had chopped liver to work with. He had an experienced TE, Cager was his main go to guy up until he got hurt and Pickens while a freshman was more talented than any receiver UGA ever had since AJ Green. Regardless that had nothing to do with him short arming throws. I hope he does well and makes the active roster but right or wrong there is a reason many UGA fans are happy he left early. I will say while many are happy he left school early most knew he would not be a high draft pick. 

Lets be real.....there is a reason WHY Fromm coming from a big school and championship games fell to the 5th round

 

And

 

Lets be real....that is great for us

[Iverwig]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Isn't that "to be determined"?  The problem, as I perceive it, is that lesser-armed QB can get away with throws in college that they can't, in the NFL.  Even Josh Allen has had to learn "nope.nope.nope, can't fit that in there"

 

So the question with a college QB is always, will he figure that out, and adjust to the throws he can make in the NFL, or won't he?

 

Peterman apparently could not.  Though I guess we could still see him again?

 

 

Didn't his accuracy drop off about halfway through the season?   Did Fromm perhaps have some kind of injury he was trying to play through?

Some program insiders said he had a tired arm but it could have been a combination of that and Cager being hurt. Whenever Cager played that is who Fromm locked in on but when Cager was hurt he was horrible. The odd thing is Fromm was known to pass the ball around to multiple receivers but last year was a different case. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

9 hours ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

Deshaun Watson: 45 mph...

 

Quit this Peterman-rag-arm talk. Fromm's arm is decent, and he has more than enough arm strength to be an NFL backup; probably plenty even to be a starter, if you consider Watson's MPH.

 

#getwoke #scienceiscool #watchingtapeiscooltoo #numbersareimportant

 

Cut Davis Webb. 3 QBs on the roster (two extra spots; one for Fromm/Barkley, and the other for an extra OL).

 

Based on the signings they've made, I'll be surprised if there's not an extra defensive lineman too, so that could take the 2nd extra roster spot instead.

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

I'm completely interested.  The poster I was rebutting stated, "Fromm comes from a big boy program, has big boy experience, and big boy numbers to back it up."   I simply asked him, "and that means what exactly…and if that's true, why doesn't Fromm just start."  You actually supported my argument by stating "all QBs from everywhere fail a lot."   You then jabbed at me about Wyoming QBs and I rebutted you to stating how many Georgia QBs have had success in the NFL outside of Matt Stafford, to which you have yet to reply.   If Fromm helps the team great, I am all for it.   Many of the best players in NFL history didn't come from big boy programs.  The point I am trying to get across when people fall back on college stats and college programs, is that college success doesn't equate to NFL success.

Fran Tarkenton went to UGA...haha

other than him and Stafford, none have had much success in the NFL. 
The SEC for decades was a run first conference. That has slowly but surely changed. I am a huge UGA fan, I almost walked on to play there. My hope for Fromm is to be this teams Frank Reich. The calming voice that can help Josh. I can see Jake playing for years in the league. His ceiling is a Fitzpatrick type career. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[PIZ]

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[stuvian]

What's amusing is the 36 pages of people convincing themselves that Fromm is a backup 

[TwistofFate]

7 hours ago, Iverwig said:

I wonder how many on here have watched UGA play a game this year. Fromm was not the same QB as he was in previous years. As a UGA fan I will say Fromm is a great leader, hard worker and as smart as any QB around. With that being said Fromm does not have a strong arm and struggled throwing the ball in bad (rainy) weather. I often wondered if he was injured this year as a lot of his balls hit the dirt before getting to the receivers where that wasn’t an issue in the past. I will add Fromm seemed to regress as a player but I do believe much of his issues was with pressure from UGA fans. However, in the right system he can be a decent QB but I don’t think he will ever be a long term starter. He should be able to unseat Barkley and if he ever has to go in the game upon a Allen injury he will be ready mentally. 

 

How many starters did Fromm lose from 2018 to 2019?

 

People act like he didn't post great numbers last year.  He posted good numbers just not elite numbers, and the reason was the loss of multiple Wrs and linemen who he played with for the two previous seasons. 

 

He didnt fall off, the talent and coordinator did. 

[John from Riverside]

Just give me a guy that come in 3 games a year and help the team win them

[BigBillsFan]

8 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

 Where did I say "SEC QBs fail all the time".  Please show me!

 

Ahhhh here:

Quote

and that exactly means what?  Because a quick google search will show you tons of QBs from big boy programs, with big boy experience, and big boy numbers have flamed out quickly in the NFL.  If you what you say is true, then start Fromm now and quit wasting everyone's time.

 

"All the time" and "tons of QBs" is roughly the same thing.

 

I mean what you're doing is essentially taking people's excitement over a pick as purely an anti-Allen crusade that we need Fromm to start immediately.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Josh and I like the Fromm pick, but I don't think he's a starter in the NFL. He might be good as a relief pitcher with a good defense, nothing else.

[Nextmanup]

14 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Has anyone ever noticed that long passes are thrown with a lot of arc and the WR runs under the ball, which also drops from the sky, rather than coming in as a low angle bullet that the DB can knock down?   Most people don't understand the practical meaning of the acceleration of gravity. IF you want a pass to drop from the sky OVER a trailing DB, you launch it higher and slower so it comes down after traveling for a longer time. You let your RB run under the dropping ball.  Trust me. I don't want to go through a calculus lesson.  Arm strength to throw it 100mph doesn't help there.

 

I'm pretty sure Josh Allen has no idea what you are writing about here.

 

?

[YoloinOhio]

 

[BillsFan17]

2 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

Ahhhh here:

 

"All the time" and "tons of QBs" is roughly the same thing.

 

I mean what you're doing is essentially taking people's excitement over a pick as purely an anti-Allen crusade that we need Fromm to start immediately.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Josh and I like the Fromm pick, but I don't think he's a starter in the NFL. He might be good as a relief pitcher with a good defense, nothing else.

Those are not roughly the same thing, at all. "Tons" can happen in any time frame, "all the time" is far more inductive and concrete.

 

Regardless, the whole what school these guys come from and their basic production stats are really weak arguments. There is so much that goes into it.

[BigBillsFan]

23 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

Those are not roughly the same thing, at all. "Tons" can happen in any time frame, "all the time" is far more inductive and concrete.

 

Regardless, the whole what school these guys come from and their basic production stats are really weak arguments. There is so much that goes into it.

 

Of course they are roughly the same thing.
"He goes to the store all the time" (hyperbole) vs. "He goes there tons of the time"

"Great players come from LSU all the time." vs "Tons of the time great players come from LSU"

They're just collaquialisms and people know what you mean when you say "all the time". People are accused of things "all of the time".

 

And to the idea that what school they go to and what they produce are not weak arguments at all. They just aren't guaranteed rates of performance in the pros. Most of the best pros in the league had the best production from the best schools.

[Iverwig]

6 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

 

How many starters did Fromm lose from 2018 to 2019?

 

People act like he didn't post great numbers last year.  He posted good numbers just not elite numbers, and the reason was the loss of multiple Wrs and linemen who he played with for the two previous seasons. 

 

He didnt fall off, the talent and coordinator did. 

No offense but when you say he lost multiple linemen that shows me you don’t know much about the UGA program. They had the best OL in the conference and top 3 OL in the country going into last year. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who had them not rated in the top 5 of the country.  They had both their starting tackles drafted in the 1st round this year. 

Fromm has never been physically talented but he had always been a game manager. That’s why people were upset when Fields transferred to OSU because he was light years ahead of Fromm talent wise. If you go back to Fromm’s freshman year he wasn’t more talented then Eason he won due to Chubb and Michel being the backfield. UGA under Smart was always run oriented and great defense the way Alabama was before Tua. Fromm is AJ Mccaron. Did him losing talent around him hurt him some yes but it’s college football not the NFL. College power programs reload not rebuild. If Fromm was so great then why are many UGA fans happy that he left early?  Did the offensive coordinator have issues yes but he changed somethings during the season and called some decent games but his QB missed the plays.  I like Fromm and hope he does well but he is a game manager. I will ask you to go back and watch every UGA game this year and focus on Fromm. He rarely throws over the middle which is a reason why his number suffered. Receivers were open over the middle and the secondary receivers were open all season long and he refused to throw the ball or look there way. Him throwing balls in the grass or at the receivers feet has nothing to do with a lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball. Fromm also showed tendencies of being a one read QB which is odd considering the fact he played behind arguably the best pass blocking OL in the country and had all day to throw.
 

I again hope he does well as he is a great person and outstanding leader but I challenge you and anyone else to go to YouTube and watch every UGA game this year and decide for yourself.  If you haven’t watched UGA play consistently then don’t come with something you read or heard about. Don’t look at the numbers especially for a college player as it does not tell the whole story.  There is a reason he was passed on by so many teams and was not selected until the 5th round. I guarantee you outside of Burrow, Tua and Hurts JF had the most talent around him but yet he was the 8 or 9 QB taken. Kirby preferred game managers at QB to protect his defense but with Monken coming in this year we, UGA, fans hope he allows the offense to open up. I do find it odd that Buffalo drafted him due to the potential bad weather in Buffalo because JF normally played poorly in bad weather. However, once again I hope it works out for him as I am a Bills fan and believe he can be a big help to Allen. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Iverwig

[YoloinOhio]

6 hours ago, stuvian said:

What's amusing is the 36 pages of people convincing themselves that Fromm is a backup 

Beane is the one that called him a backup. He made it sound like he would be lucky to beat out Barkley this year but they liked the value. Are you trying to convince yourself that he’s lying?

[fergie's ire]

9 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Fran Tarkenton went to UGA...haha

other than him and Stafford, none have had much success in the NFL. 
The SEC for decades was a run first conference. That has slowly but surely changed. I am a huge UGA fan, I almost walked on to play there. My hope for Fromm is to be this teams Frank Reich. The calming voice that can help Josh. I can see Jake playing for years in the league. His ceiling is a Fitzpatrick type career. 

Yes, I think that is a great comparison.  Fromm has that kind of head for the game....and I remember Kelly on the sidelines talking with Reich about what he was seeing...It was almost like having a player coach, who could see the game from Kelly's perspective.  If Fromm could do that for Allen, AND be a competent backup when called upon, this will be a great pickup.

[Charles Romes]

A head scratcher at first, this pick has grown on me. Beane wants to create competition at every position, even when he has an entrenched starting QB.  Fromm, who has never failed in the NFL, is more likely to push JA than an aging vet like Flacco, Barkley or any of the other options.  

[stuvian]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Beane is the one that called him a backup. He made it sound like he would be lucky to beat out Barkley this year but they liked the value. Are you trying to convince yourself that he’s lying?

of course Beane isn't going to start a QB controversy on his own team. There's 36 pages and counting of people rationalizing Fromm being back up when the argument could easily be made that he's already a more polished passer than Allen

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, stuvian said:

of course Beane isn't going to start a QB controversy on his own team. There's 36 pages and counting of people rationalizing Fromm being back up when the argument could easily be made that he's already a more polished passer than Allen

“The argument could be made”... isn’t that trying to convince yourself? Are you assuming Beane is lying? Just wondering. He went in the 5th round for a reason. Lots of teams passed on him who had a need. They all spent 3 years scouting him. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[stuvian]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

“The argument could be made”... isn’t that trying to convince yourself? Are you assuming Beane is lying? Just wondering. He went in the 5th round for a reason. Lots of teams passed on him who had a need. They all spent 3 years scouting him. 

just wondering why you and the rest of the 36 pages of posters are so defensive. Quite frankly I like the pick. It's great value for a 5th rounder. I also like the fact that Allen (who I do like and support) isn't being given an unlimited pass on his development time table. In the past we've given the likes of Edwards, Losman and Fitz an unfettered claim to the starters job with no competition for 4 years or more. 

I don't think it's a revelation that a starting QB in the SEC is going to face a higher level of competition than what Allen faced in his conference. We know that Allen's deep ball is a work in progress. Still hands down, Allen is a much better athlete with a higher ceiling. 

[BillsFan17]

50 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

Of course they are roughly the same thing.
"He goes to the store all the time" (hyperbole) vs. "He goes there tons of the time"

"Great players come from LSU all the time." vs "Tons of the time great players come from LSU"

They're just collaquialisms and people know what you mean when you say "all the time". People are accused of things "all of the time".

 

And to the idea that what school they go to and what they produce are not weak arguments at all. They just aren't guaranteed rates of performance in the pros. Most of the best pros in the league had the best production from the best schools.

Most, but not all, again all encompassing statements don't make for the norm.

 

When we consider the market share of prospects from larger schools, oppose to lesser known/small schools... it should favor the bigger schools having more successful pros. I mean how many prospects did LSU have drafted oppose to Lehnoir-Ryne? If half their prospects bust, its one thing, if Dugger busts its another.

 

I do find it unique with how many Bills players from the past and present have come from lesser known/small schools and have had success.

 

And some of our biggest busts have come from bigger schools.

 

What school a prospect comes out of, is in no way inductive of a players projected success. Its a very small part of the equation, thus making it weak.

Edited April 27, 2020 by BillsFan17

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, stuvian said:

just wondering why you and the rest of the 36 pages of posters are so defensive. Quite frankly I like the pick. It's great value for a 5th rounder. I also like the fact that Allen (who I do like and support) isn't being given an unlimited pass on his development time table. In the past we've given the likes of Edwards, Losman and Fitz an unfettered claim to the starters job with no competition for 4 years or more. 

I don't think it's a revelation that a starting QB in the SEC is going to face a higher level of competition than what Allen faced in his conference. We know that Allen's deep ball is a work in progress. Still hands down, Allen is a much better athlete with a higher ceiling. 

I don’t see where this observation of “defensiveness” is coming from. The NFL scouts and draft analyst don’t think he’s a starter. Belichick took a kicker instead of him and he needs a QB. He’s a great kid by all accounts and had a successful college career but has a low ceiling due to his arm and that’s why he’s a late rounder.  It is an odd comment to make that you think people are trying to “convince” themselves he’s a backup when that’s what everything points to. It’s actually the other way around to tell to convince yourself he’s a starter. Could he become a starter? Sure, others like him have found their way to a start role of even temporarily. But to assume that is a bit of a stretch when his nfl comparison is colt McCoy. None of this has anything to do with josh Allen and everything to do with Fromm’s nfl traits. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by YoloinOhio