Interesting Player Starting to Slide

[ChattanoogaBills]

6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Why do they need to upgrade Beasley with their premium draft asset in 2020?

 

Beasley will be fine in 2020..

 

I know you are entitled to your opinion, but it’s SB or bust in 2020 I would prefer they spend the pick in a bigger need..

I would love to win the SB this year. But the bust part?? Doesn't that mean we tear the whole team down and start over from scratch?? I feel like we have a three year window with us having the 5th year option on Allen to still go for the Lombardi.

Also if we draft smart like Shenault or Dugger or whatever position and hit on our draft picks. We then could lose a player that is starting now. Replace him with capable, younger, and cheaper player that is under a rookie contract. 

I agree the best window is with your QB under his rookie contract. But its definitely not the end of contention if your drafting BPA not reaching for assumed needs. 

[ChattanoogaBills]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Wait what?
 

Our second round pick is going to boot 3 different individuals players off the roster? In 3 different roles? Even if he moves up to WR 4, you know we would still carry more receivers than that right? 

I also feel like Shenault would make those three players ( Duke, McKenzie, and Roberts) expandable. We certainly would carry more than 4 wrs still (probably some kick coverage/development guys). Or even keep a couple of them. But he does offer versatility.

Im not sure about his injury history but maybe that he ran the ball in the Wildcat so much attributed to that. Especially down on the goal line and short yardage. I would hope we wouldn't ask that of him here.

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

I doubt they grab a RB that high.

Actually I'd be shocked if we don't take a stud RB @ 54 to pair with Singletary. We'll wait till the 3rd round for a wr.....

[Aussie Joe]

44 minutes ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

I would love to win the SB this year. But the bust part?? Doesn't that mean we tear the whole team down and start over from scratch?? I feel like we have a three year window with us having the 5th year option on Allen to still go for the Lombardi.

Also if we draft smart like Shenault or Dugger or whatever position and hit on our draft picks. We then could lose a player that is starting now. Replace him with capable, younger, and cheaper player that is under a rookie contract. 

I agree the best window is with your QB under his rookie contract. But its definitely not the end of contention if your drafting BPA not reaching for assumed needs. 

My referral to “ bust” is that they should be pulling out all stops to win it all in 2020 and that means using your top remaining  pick left  on someone that can contribute straight away...

 

Doesn’t mean that the window still  won’t be there in 2021 as well, and I would expect  Beane to have the same mind set then perhaps flipping his No 1 pick for another big name contributor rather than rolling the dice on an unproven rookie..

[Aussie Joe]

55 minutes ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

But its definitely not the end of contention if your drafting BPA not reaching for assumed needs. 

The problem with hypothetical discussions like this topic is that we have no idea what the remaining players on the board will be at 54 so we don’t know whether the player concerned is BPA or not..

[Thurman#1]

Roberts is really good as a returner. He'd still have the job if we got Shenault, I think.

 

Wouldn't mind Shenault at all, though, if they think he's BPA.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

My referral to “ bust” is that they should be pulling out all stops to win it all in 2020 and that means using your top remaining  pick left  on someone that can contribute straight away...

 

Doesn’t mean that the window still  won’t be there in 2021 as well, and I would expect  Beane to have the same mind set then perhaps flipping his No 1 pick for another big name contributor rather than rolling the dice on an unproven rookie..

 

 

You fill needs with FA. The Diggs trade fits that too. With the draft you build the team. The draft is more for the future. If a guy can start right away, great, but that's not what you draft for. You draft to build your talent base. 

 

They have gone out of their way to point out that their goal is to be consistent for the long term. You don't do that by changing early draft picks to better fit immediate needs.

 

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Actually I'd be shocked if we don't take a stud RB @ 54 to pair with Singletary. We'll wait till the 3rd round for a wr.....

 

 

You're likely to get shocked. Expect BPA

Edited April 12, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Hardhatharry]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Actually I'd be shocked if we don't take a stud RB @ 54 to pair with Singletary. We'll wait till the 3rd round for a wr.....

Doubt it RB isn't going to be a big need. The Bills will be passing the ball more.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

Doubt it RB isn't going to be a big need. The Bills will be passing the ball more.

Personally, I think that RB is the last immediate need on this team. The Bills can sustain an injury to any other position on the roster (except QB and most can’t sustain that). If Singletary goes down the running game goes too and he did miss five games as a rookie. Even if Motor is healthy another RB is going to play 30% of the offensive snaps. The Bills have to add another high end option. 

[Hardhatharry]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Personally, I think that RB is the last immediate need on this team. The Bills can sustain an injury to any other position on the roster (except QB and most can’t sustain that). If Singletary goes down the running game goes too and he did miss five games as a rookie. Even if Motor is healthy another RB is going to play 30% of the offensive snaps. The Bills have to add another high end option. 

Maybe 3rd or 4th round.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

Maybe 3rd or 4th round.

Why not 2nd? The Bills are going to draft BPA (as they should). It’s entirely possible that BPA in round 2 is one of those 4 or 5 RBs (Swift, Dobbins, Taylor, Edwards-Helaire, Akers). It doesn’t have to be a RB there but it could be a situation of “BPA meets last remaining need.”

 

The other thing is that RB is the one position that they didn’t address in FA. That tells me that they want another young guy. Everywhere else they tried to add bodies to insulate against having to pick a guy. RB is the only position on the entire roster that they have to pick a guy at. This could obviously change between now and the draft if they add someone like Hyde, Miller or Freeman. As of today though, that’s not the case.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why not 2nd? The Bills are going to draft BPA (as they should). It’s entirely possible that BPA in round 2 is one of those 4 or 5 RBs (Swift, Dobbins, Taylor, Edwards-Helaire, Akers). It doesn’t have to be a RB there but it could be a situation of “BPA meets last remaining need.”

 

The other thing is that RB is the one position that they didn’t address in FA. That tells me that they want another young guy. Everywhere else they tried to add bodies to insulate against having to pick a guy. RB is the only position on the entire roster that they have to pick a guy at. This could obviously change between now and the draft if they add someone like Hyde, Miller or Freeman. As of today though, that’s not the case.

 

I wouldn't hate any of those backs. I still think if one of the edge guys gets there that is the way they should go but I can easily see a situation where one of those backs is BPA at #54.

[Blokestradamus]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why not 2nd? The Bills are going to draft BPA (as they should). It’s entirely possible that BPA in round 2 is one of those 4 or 5 RBs (Swift, Dobbins, Taylor, Edwards-Helaire, Akers). It doesn’t have to be a RB there but it could be a situation of “BPA meets last remaining need.”

 

If Swift is there when we pick, I will touch myself. He's a beautiful runner.

[Hardhatharry]

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why not 2nd? The Bills are going to draft BPA (as they should). It’s entirely possible that BPA in round 2 is one of those 4 or 5 RBs (Swift, Dobbins, Taylor, Edwards-Helaire, Akers). It doesn’t have to be a RB there but it could be a situation of “BPA meets last remaining need.”

 

The other thing is that RB is the one position that they didn’t address in FA. That tells me that they want another young guy. Everywhere else they tried to add bodies to insulate against having to pick a guy. RB is the only position on the entire roster that they have to pick a guy at. This could obviously change between now and the draft if they add someone like Hyde, Miller or Freeman. As of today though, that’s not the case.

Lol no need to waste a 2nd rounder on a RB. Many other positions will have players better rates than at RB.

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

If Swift is there when we pick, I will touch myself. He's a beautiful runner.

Glad to have you back!! Lol

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You fill needs with FA. The Diggs trade fits that too. With the draft you build the team. The draft is more for the future. If a guy can start right away, great, but that's not what you draft for. You draft to build your talent base. 

 

 

So they used their No 1 pick for a need (Diggs) .. why couldn’t they do the  same with their No 2 pick?

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Aussie Joe

[Blokestradamus]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Glad to have you back!! Lol

 

I don't know if you mean the draft stuff or the creepy comments. Or both

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Two day two picks on rbs over two years makes no sense.

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

Lol no need to waste a 2nd rounder on a RB. Many other positions will have players better rates than at RB.

My question is why is it a “waste?” What player picked in round 2 is going to have a greater impact on this team, this year? Even if Singletary is healthy another RB is going to touch the ball 8-10 times a game. If Singletary is out that number moves closer to 20. There’s a clear path to playing time for a RB (which there isn’t pretty much anywhere else on the roster).
 

Additionally, there are likely 5 RBs to come off the board between picks 20 and 60. That’s a situation where need and BPA could come together. It’s entirely possible that the Bills take one of those 5 guys at 54. To be clear, I’m not saying, “the Bills will definitely take a RB at 54.” I’m saying, “it is entirely POSSIBLE to foresee a situation where the Bills go RB at 54.”
 

If I had to put odds on the position picked in round 2 would probably look like this:

RB +100

S +125 

Edge +150

OT +150
CB +250

WR +250

LB +300

IOL +350

DT +350

TE +450

QB +1200

 

 

11 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

I don't know if you mean the draft stuff or the creepy comments. Or both

Both

[maryland-bills-fan]

12 minutes ago, N.Y. Orangeman said:

Two day two picks on rbs over two years makes no sense.

Unless you need a better RB and need a second running back. About 45% of the offensive plays are running plays, and the running back should also have at least 6 touches as a pass target. 

[billsfan_34]

13 hours ago, Madd Charlie said:

I'm seeing more mocks with Laviska Shenault sliding to the Bills pick in the second round. Interestingly, none of these mocks show us taking him. The last one I saw had Duggar going to Dallas at 51 and Chinn going to the Eagles at 53. Those are two players that the Bills reportedly did some due diligence on and who I also like a lot. The Bills then take Terrell Lewis at 54 and Shenault goes to NO at 55. I'm not feeling Lewis for some reason although I see the potential. Maybe its the injury history but its probably me being turned off by these tall lanky edge rush guys ever since the Maybin disaster.

 

I take Shenault right here. I cut or trade Andre Roberts and save 1.5 mill in cap. Shenault becomes the kick returner and punt returner. He becomes the back up running back, gadget guy, and sweep guy he most likely bumps McKenzie and Duke Williams off of the roster and becomes our 4th receiver. I'm getting pretty excited about it the more I think about it. It gives us a great combination of youth and vets at the position which we know Beane and Coach would prefer. We also potentially have the best top 4 receivers in the league. Its doubtful that Laviska drops that far but not impossible. With the scenario above does any one else take Shenault there or are other positions too much of a priority and I'm just getting greedy?

So you would cut an Ace Special Teamer to save 1.5 million? I just could never see that happening. In my opinion, McKenzie would be shown the door. Where the Bills are right now and the level of talent you have to go with a proven in Roberts.

Edited April 12, 2020 by billsfan_34

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Hardhatharry said:

Doubt it RB isn't going to be a big need. The Bills will be passing the ball more.

RB is a big need.  I do favor adding one that is a complete threat though.  A RB who can pass protect and catch the ball out of the backfield are important parts of the passing game too.  Right now Singletary is all we have and the offense changed dramatically when he was out getting breathers or missing games last season.  I am not interested in pushing our luck.  Get me another quality RB who has a complete game.  I don’t care where we find that RB, but we need one like that.  
 

Edit: Singletary had 151 rush attempts (and 29 receptions) in 12 games in 2019.  I have to think that we’d have run the ball - and run it much more effectively - with a second quality RB getting touches.  

Edited April 12, 2020 by BarleyNY

[maryland-bills-fan]

I really don't like all these trendy "RULES" that people invent, repeat to one-another and then worship.  Of course you want to get the "BPA", but reality is "the BPA within reason". 

 

If you are already stacked at a position, and there is a "BPA" sitting there, he is not your pick because he adds nothing to the team in the next 2-3 years. (and is then close to FA).  IF the player is that superior, then you answer the phone because somebody else will be calling and asking for you to trade for your slot. That, automatically, solves the problem. If it doesn't, well than reality has shown you the truth.

 

What the Bills have done the past 3 years is TWICE each year,  traded up to get a player they wanted.  They didn't like or want the "BPA" available with their pick and bundled their pick and some lower picks to move up and get a NEED player to build and improve the roster.   That has worked out well, (it is not "BPA").  Sorry to get people upset, but when you decide to move up in the draft to get a player, that is a NEED move.

 

{{note added in edit.  It is BOTH a NEED and a BPA pick.  Why not get both at the same time?   Every choice in life and business is a compromise between two extremes.}}

 

Give the Bills organization credit for some brains in how they approach the draft. They INTEGRATE picking up veteran FA's and which veteran FA's they get WITH the expected players in the draft.   This year the used their 1st and a couple of late middle picks to get a #1 wide receiver who has a close to ZERO bust rate and fill that NEED. 

 

Right now we have one starting level RB on the roster and he has limitations. (Sorry Homers). He is on the small side, shifty and good between the tackles.  He doe NOT have the speed to turn the corner, he is NOT a natural pass catcher,   he scares nobody if he lines up wide as a WR and he is no good as hot read or the plays that made TT such a great.  He is the 2019 #22 in rushing and 2019 #45 in receiving among running backs. 

 

The Bills have planned ahead and at #54,  or with a modest trade up, might be in a position of getting one of the top 5 RB's.  They are an immediate upgrade and will play this year and may even start this year.  That seems to be the plan.

 

  
 

Edited April 12, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan

[H2o]

If Swift, Taylor, or Dobbins are on the board in Round 2 I take one of the 3, whomever that may be. I think all three of them would make an excellent compliment to Singletary. If they're all off of the board then I take Claypool if he's there because I believe he immediately changes our attack even more so than we have already adding Diggs. I just think he's going to be a nightmare to cover, would make it basically impossible to guard our sum of receiving weapons, and open up the field all over. I don't think Shenault does that in this offense with our depth chart right now. If all 4 of the aforementioned are off of the board then BPA at DE/CB/S/OL/LB/TE, whomever that may be. No matter what happens I expect Beane, McDermott, and Co. to come away with not only their BPA, but a guy who will make an immediate impact. 

[CSBill]

13 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Mims at 54 is my top choice! No question...he is everything you want in a future #1...size, hands, route running, speed...

 

I'm with you on this. He is intriguing.

[Cal]

I'd be fine with both. Probably prefer lewis

[Mr. K]

BPA is probably going to end up being O or D Line, DB, or RB. I wouldnt mind rolling the dice on Kalija Lipscomb in a later round.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

They already used their first rounder on a WR. I doubt they do the same with their second unless it’s a clear BPA 

[TigerJ]

I'd consider him.  There are a few other players who give you some interesting versatility like Shenault.  Lynn Bowdin and Antonio Gibson.  You can pick up either of those guys a couple rounds later

[OldTimer1960]

14 hours ago, Madd Charlie said:

I think CB is set short-term I'm in the Norman is going to ball out as our number two camp, and we have decent depth. The only way I go CB here is if the Bills feel they need leverage because of the massive contract Tre is about to ask for. I never saw the Panthers pay a CB when Beane was in Carolina but you almost have to keep Tre no matter what. If they don't go ER in the second to me it means they see Darryl Johnson taking a step which would be really cool he has a lot of size and potential and he can play special teams.

While I like some of what we saw from Darryl Johnson, if they don’t take a DE in round 2 it could also just mean that they didn’t like the DEs that were available enough to take one - I don’t think it necessarily says much about their thoughts on Johnson.  Late in round 2 this year I don’t think the DE options will be great.  

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am low on him too. So much so that I think I would be slightly pissed with him at #54. In all likelihood there will be better players on the board. I did say when people here were having him in the conversation at #22 it was absolute crazy talk. 

I agree - I really like how hard he runs when he has the ball, but so many of his touches were schemed to get him the ball on passes +/-5 yards of LOS and on handoffs that it is hard to say he is a WR.  Combined with his pedestrian 40 and injuries, I think it would be wise to avoid him.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

We don’t need another WR right now. I really hope we don’t draft one. A TE that can be more reliable in the passing game? Sure. A RB that can catch balls out of the backfield? Sure. Don’t draft another WR. We are full there.

[SoCal Deek]

So it’s settled then! Nobody knows what they’re going to do in Round 2. What a great place to be after so many years of we HAVE TO take this guy or that guy. Loving it! 

[Hardhatharry]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

RB is a big need.  I do favor adding one that is a complete threat though.  A RB who can pass protect and catch the ball out of the backfield are important parts of the passing game too.  Right now Singletary is all we have and the offense changed dramatically when he was out getting breathers or missing games last season.  I am not interested in pushing our luck.  Get me another quality RB who has a complete game.  I don’t care where we find that RB, but we need one like that.  
 

Edit: Singletary had 151 rush attempts (and 29 receptions) in 12 games in 2019.  I have to think that we’d have run the ball - and run it much more effectively - with a second quality RB getting touches.  

Not really, they will be passing more this year.

[hondo in seattle]

Here's how I interpret the word "slide."

 

The media initially overvalues a guy.  As they start to do more homework and realize the player's flaws, they begin to downgrade him.  Thus the slide  

 

It all starts with the media's mistake of overvaluing a player.  

[Putin]

16 hours ago, purple haze said:

If Beane truly likes Duggar or Chinn he will go get one of them.

I know we already used our 1st round pick on a WR but I still think we should be beefing up the offense with playmakers, Im not saying Shenault is that guy ,  but just by looking at our offense and where it was ranked ( last year ) and compare to our defense that was a top 5 AND looking at what Bean already did in free agency beefing up DL , LB and adding more competition at the CB2 position I just don’t see how anyone we draft on defense will have a chance to contribute this year , unless someone they REALLY like slides to 54 I think Bean will go offense WR , RB wouldn’t surprise if we move up back in 1st or top of the second round ,,

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, Putin said:

I know we already used our 1st round pick on a WR but I still think we should be beefing up the offense with playmakers, Im not saying Shenault is that guy ,  but just by looking at our offense and where it was ranked ( last year ) and compare to our defense that was a top 5 AND looking at what Bean already did in free agency beefing up DL , LB and adding more competition at the CB2 position I just don’t see how anyone we draft on defense will have a chance to contribute this year , unless someone they REALLY like slides to 54 I think Bean will go offense WR , RB wouldn’t surprise if we move up back in 1st or top of the second round ,,

I hear you, but Beane is also drafting for the future, not just this season.  I fully expect him to grab a WR in a couple weeks for that reason.  Maybe it's 2nd round, maybe not.  They need a young edge too.  Darryl Johnson is our only young DE prospect.

[maryland-bills-fan]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

They already used their first rounder on a WR. I doubt they do the same with their second unless it’s a clear BPA 

We should have one of the best WR trios in the league.  Even if this draftee could put one of them on the bench, why not improve  some part of the team that needs improvement?  Geesh, if the guy could put Diggs on the bench, then every other teams should be stupid in not taking him  OR we should get some other team to give us a 1st round pick in exchange for our #54 pick.

[maryland-bills-fan]

7 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

Doubt it RB isn't going to be a big need. The Bills will be passing the ball more.

Gee.  Singletary was #45 in RB receiving last year.  So, 32 teams had a better pass reciever than the Bills.  22 teams had TWO running backs that were better pass receiver than Singletary.    https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/rb/2019

 

#47       Singletary             Buffalo  41 passes for 194 yards    

#32      L,Murray                Saints     43 passes for 235 yards

#16     K.Hunt                    Browns    44  passes for 285 yards

#8    Da. Johnson             Arizona   47 passes for 370 yards

 

I would like the Bills to be at lease in the top half to top quarter of the league.  If you think we should pass the ball more, putting an additional receiving threat on the field for every play seems like a good idea.  We are giving about 150 yards away AND adding a threat at RB pass catching will mean few double coverages on the top 2 wide receivers, and make them more effective.

[Hardhatharry]

39 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Gee.  Singletary was #45 in RB receiving last year.  So, 32 teams had a better pass reciever than the Bills.  22 teams had TWO running backs that were better pass receiver than Singletary.    https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/rb/2019

 

#47       Singletary             Buffalo  41 passes for 194 yards    

#32      L,Murray                Saints     43 passes for 235 yards

#16     K.Hunt                    Browns    44  passes for 285 yards

#8    Da. Johnson             Arizona   47 passes for 370 yards

 

I would like the Bills to be at lease in the top half to top quarter of the league.  If you think we should pass the ball more, putting an additional receiving threat on the field for every play seems like a good idea.  We are giving about 150 yards away AND adding a threat at RB pass catching will mean few double coverages on the top 2 wide receivers, and make them more effective.

 

He will be better this year, last year he was a rookie. Don't worry.

[TigerJ]

1 hour ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Gee.  Singletary was #45 in RB receiving last year.  So, 32 teams had a better pass reciever than the Bills.  22 teams had TWO running backs that were better pass receiver than Singletary.    https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/rb/2019

 

#47       Singletary             Buffalo  41 passes for 194 yards    

#32      L,Murray                Saints     43 passes for 235 yards

#16     K.Hunt                    Browns    44  passes for 285 yards

#8    Da. Johnson             Arizona   47 passes for 370 yards

 

I would like the Bills to be at lease in the top half to top quarter of the league.  If you think we should pass the ball more, putting an additional receiving threat on the field for every play seems like a good idea.  We are giving about 150 yards away AND adding a threat at RB pass catching will mean few double coverages on the top 2 wide receivers, and make them more effective.

Funny, I look at the same stat and conclude there were 12 running backs who had better receiving stats than Singletary.  Still, I think its better than not to have a second RB on the roster who can do some of everything.  If you want a ground and pound short yardage specialist, I think he ought to be a third RB on the roster.  I'm not counting Taiwan Jones, who won't get more than about 5 snaps all season at RB.