Would You Attend A Bills Game Without A Covid-19 Vaccine?

[folz]

Yes, I would.

[Maybe Someday]

I'm just waiting for the official NFL licensed team hazmat suit to be available online. No China for this one...nflshop only. Maybe they'll give you season ticket holders a coupon. 

[Gordio]

On 4/10/2020 at 8:02 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

I have, actually.  One of them had about 4 shoppers, all spaced out.

 

Another had a line to get in, with tape on the ground marking where to stand 6 feet apart.  One shopper came out, another went in.  The checkers were wearing masks and gloves behind plexi barriers.

 

Where are you shopping were there are "people all over"?

 

Agreed, there has been a noticeable difference in the amount of shoppers at wegmans the past two week.  The place is pretty empty.  

 

As far as the Bills games I dropped my season tickets a few years ago.  For the first time in probably 25 years I didn't attend one game last year but went to a couple tailgates and then had my wife pick me up & watched the game at home.  With that being said, me, my son & two of my friends ought season tickets in February.  I can't wait for the season to start & will be there if they allow it.  I don't know, I got mixed feelings on this whole thing & I am interested to see this thing play out.  Not going to go any farther than that since I got warning points last week about bringing in political views.  

 

I will say if they are not going to allow fans in the stands just cancel the season, or delay the season until it is reasonably safe to allow attendance.  Same with College football.  I know the president of ND said it is not going to work for college to have the games without fans & I agree with that.  

 

[mjt328]

Listening to the doctors and medical "experts" talk about this, I have yet to hear someone suggest a vaccine could realistically be available until at least next year (which in NFL terms means the 2021 season).  Now, it's reasonable that medicine/treatment will be readily available before that point.  Especially if they find currently FDA-approved drugs are effective.  But there is no way the health community is going to approve vaccinating the entire U.S. population without extensive testing on side-effects first.

 

With that said... It's totally unrealistic that we can all just hide inside for the next 12-18 months, or that our government can keep pumping out stimulus checks to keep the economy stabilized for that period of time.  Over 6 million Americans lost their jobs JUST last month.  We are already looking at a potential great depression, and it's ONLY been 3-4 weeks since we started locking things down.  

 

So unless you want to say goodbye (possibly permanently) to everything that involves people getting together.... sporting events, concerts, theaters, theme parks, restaurants, bars, etc... then society will need to find ways to adapt with the virus floating around.  

 

[Negan]

Pretty sure I already had this in late January.  Started with high fever, cough, night sweats.  Loss of taste and smell, lasted for 2 weeks as well.  Terrible cough it hurt like a mofo

 

Wish I could get a test to know if already had it officially

[BUFFALOTONE]

On 4/10/2020 at 9:49 AM, TroutDog said:

I’d love to say yes but I am 50 and have cancer. Can’t do it, unfortunately. I basically have no immune system. 

Take care of yourself my man. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/11/2020 at 5:58 PM, fansince88 said:

Same here. Sore throat. Spiked a fever and Bronchitus within hours. Good ole salt water, gse and vitamins brought me through it 

 

1 hour ago, Negan said:

Pretty sure I already had this in late January.  Started with high fever, cough, night sweats.  Loss of taste and smell, lasted for 2 weeks as well.  Terrible cough it hurt like a mofo

 

Wish I could get a test to know if already had it officially

On 4/11/2020 at 6:32 PM, purple haze said:

I think I might have had the virus in February.  All the symptoms people describe: fatigue, chills, fever, super congestion and labored breathing, the WORST cough I've ever had.  And it lasted a good 2 weeks.  Cough was so bad I couldn't sleep through the night most nights.  I thought it was the worst flu ever had or maybe pneumonia.  I told my wife I had some type of bionic flu.  She wanted to take me to urgent care a couple different times, but I wouldn't go.  At the time I had never heard of Coronavirus.   

 

Several co-workers had similar experiences before and after me.  Of course we all missed a few days of work then dragged our asses back in because no one wants to keep missing work.  Dragged being the operative word.  Folks should be very careful about rushing to get back to "normal."  Reports out of South Korea are stating people who recovered from the virus are beginning to test positive again.  

 

On 4/11/2020 at 7:03 PM, Not at the table Karlos said:

I had something that matched the symptoms at end of january. Dr and hospital refused to allow me on to premises but I was cleared for travel to Vegas from feb 7th to 11th over the phone. 
 

I would absolutely attend a game today if I could. My uncle passed earlier this week from it after having heart surgery. Sucks but life must go on. 

 

Just like to put in a PSA for you guys to consider asking to be tested for immunity (as soon as the blood tests are available) and considering donating convalescent plasma if you qualify.  You can call your doctor or local hospital and ask if you can be tested for antibodies so you can donate.

 

Please also see NIH study thread, and consider requesting to join it.  They are testing blood samples (you get an at-home sample kit) to see how widely the virus has spread.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/03/plasma-blood-covid-19-survivors/609007/
https://ccpp19.org/healthcare_providers/index.html

 

 

The best epidemiologist estimates I could find are that we're identifying about 10% of the actual cases in the community through RT-PCR testing, and less in areas like NYC where testing is being restricted to the very very sick - basically any location that's running more than 5% positive tests is probably missing a lot of people who have had it.

[jrober38]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Listening to the doctors and medical "experts" talk about this, I have yet to hear someone suggest a vaccine could realistically be available until at least next year (which in NFL terms means the 2021 season).  Now, it's reasonable that medicine/treatment will be readily available before that point.  Especially if they find currently FDA-approved drugs are effective.  But there is no way the health community is going to approve vaccinating the entire U.S. population without extensive testing on side-effects first.

 

With that said... It's totally unrealistic that we can all just hide inside for the next 12-18 months, or that our government can keep pumping out stimulus checks to keep the economy stabilized for that period of time.  Over 6 million Americans lost their jobs JUST last month.  We are already looking at a potential great depression, and it's ONLY been 3-4 weeks since we started locking things down.  

 

So unless you want to say goodbye (possibly permanently) to everything that involves people getting together.... sporting events, concerts, theaters, theme parks, restaurants, bars, etc... then society will need to find ways to adapt with the virus floating around.  

 

 

Society will adjust and people will go back to work taking extra precautions and wearing masks, but I don't see mass gatherings at amusement parks or sporing events returning anytime soon. 

 

I think games will be played in empty stadiums because the idea of having 60,000+ people in a stadium together, elbow to elbow for 3-4 hours seems like an absolutely terrible idea. 

[promtbr88]

An earlier post mentioned "like any virus, once you get it, you are immune..."  that is ABSOLUTELY not known. The medical community has stated this over and over again.  There is a reason this is called NOVEL Coronavirus. We can assume very little. 

[NFLBighits]

It has a death rate of 0.001 I'm definitely not giving my freedom for something so lame but I am I living in shitinois, so I guess I do a little bit. Vaccine oh hell no!

[Boatdrinks]

51 minutes ago, promtbr88 said:

An earlier post mentioned "like any virus, once you get it, you are immune..."  that is ABSOLUTELY not known. The medical community has stated this over and over again.  There is a reason this is called NOVEL Coronavirus. We can assume very little. 

It is so early that we don’t know. It’s even possible the virus could go dormant and reactivate. There are lots of unknowns here. 

[DefenseWins]

There has already been some reports about people having passed through quarantine who turn up positive again not long after being released. It's really WAY too early to know anything with any degree of certainty. From society's POV the big threat is a huge number of people dying all at once. The healthcare system is already over burdened.

[billsfan89]

The risk is just far too unknown at this point. I would imagine that we are talking 3-5 months from now what is going on with this public health issue will be a completely different set of circumstances than what is happening now. Personally for me I am in wait and see mode. If the spread of Covid can be contained enough to where the risks are much more minimal than I would strongly consider going. However if the risks are higher than well I would have reservations about going. 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 4/11/2020 at 5:08 PM, PetermansRedemption said:

This exact thing happened to me in December. First of all, I rarely ever get sick. I maybe miss one day a year. I never miss more than one day. The sickness in late December knocked me right on my ass. Missed a week of work. Had it for around 7 days including the weekend. Fatigue, chills, fever, and a cough that sounded like bronchitis. Went to urgent care. They tested for strep, it was negative. They didn’t test for the flu but that was my diagnosis. I guess I’ll find out for sure once they can run the antibody test. 

When everyone takes the antibody test the world will be shocked how many people had this and didn't know (asymptomatic)

[fansince88]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

Just like to put in a PSA for you guys to consider asking to be tested for immunity (as soon as the blood tests are available) and considering donating convalescent plasma if you qualify.  You can call your doctor or local hospital and ask if you can be tested for antibodies so you can donate.

 

Please also see NIH study thread, and consider requesting to join it.  They are testing blood samples (you get an at-home sample kit) to see how widely the virus has spread.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/03/plasma-blood-covid-19-survivors/609007/
https://ccpp19.org/healthcare_providers/index.html

 

 

The best epidemiologist estimates I could find are that we're identifying about 10% of the actual cases in the community through RT-PCR testing, and less in areas like NYC where testing is being restricted to the very very sick - basically any location that's running more than 5% positive tests is probably missing a lot of people who have had it.

Thanks my good lady! Im definitely going to look into this. 

[Irv]

I don't understand how we can re-open the economy without massive testing (doubtful that would even work), a vaccine or a cure.  One dude in Westchester County infected a hundred people all by himself.   We'll go right back to massive infections again.  We are in this for the long haul. 

[Buddo]

Living in the UK, means that I don't get to go live to games.

 

However, the premise still stands, and without a vaccine or proven treatment, I'm in what would be considered a high risk category, and another family member is also.

 

Even if I was prepared to risk it for myself, I cannot make that decision on behalf of someone else. i.e. Potentially catching something that could be fatal to them.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Finally a new topic on TBD!  
 

I’ve been socially distancing with Sunday ticket for 10 years.

 

that said I’d be much more worried for the folks that would want to come along if we went who are in higher risk categories, but who knows what the world will look like by September 

[Doc Brown]

17 hours ago, NFLBighits said:

It has a death rate of 0.001 I'm definitely not giving my freedom for something so lame but I am I living in shitinois, so I guess I do a little bit. Vaccine oh hell no!

If 1 in 10,000 people who contracted this died do you really think we'd have taken these drastic measures?

6 hours ago, Irv said:

I don't understand how we can re-open the economy without massive testing (doubtful that would even work), a vaccine or a cure.  One dude in Westchester County infected a hundred people all by himself.   We'll go right back to massive infections again.  We are in this for the long haul. 

It's not practical to continue these extreme mitigation measures for over a year until a vaccine is developed.  Luckily, countries in Europe will be our guinea pigs as they're attempting to reopen their economies.

[NFLBighits]

Go ahead and get it when they do come out with one but it's my say if I get one or if my kid gets one end of story!  Not all vaccines are necessary, unless there's money involved?  How many of you know someone that actually died from it? There giving a mere 35,000 dollars if hospitals label it death from covid19. It's real but also it's something much bigger than a virus, It's about control.  

20 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

If 1 in 10,000 people who contracted this died do you really think we'd have taken these drastic measures?

It's not practical to continue these extreme mitigation measures for over a year until a vaccine is developed.  Luckily, countries in Europe will be our guinea pigs as they're attempting to reopen their economies.

That rate I gave was world-wide.  H1N1 killed alot more people then covid19. So far anyways.

[Buffalo03]

Yes, I would. This whole social distancing thing is ridiculous anyway. I saw one guy on tv say that walking down the street in NYC is unsafe because of the crowded sidewalks. You can't even walk past people? That just sounds stupid. Unless someone has symptoms, it's probably ok to be near them. I still can't wrap my head around how a virus this deadly that's causing a nationwide shutdown could cause no symptoms whatsoever. So, someone can be more symptomatic with a simple little sinus or allergy problem but walk around with this virus without showing any signs of it and feeling perfectly normal? Sounds a little weird to me

Edited April 15, 2020 by Buffalo03

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, NFLBighits said:

That rate I gave was world-wide.  H1N1 killed alot more people then covid19. So far anyways.

You mean the flu strain that killed around 12,500 Americans in a 12 month stretch and 575,400 worldwide.  The number of coronavirus deaths are more than double that in the US within a month and a half (with mitigation efforts) and have surpassed the swine flu in totalities nationally.  I'm bullish on wanting to get the economy rolling again but people who compare this to the flu are misguided.

 

Btw....the last thing I would've expected to be arguing on a football message board four months ago was which novel virus was more lethal.

[Buffalo03]

26 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

You don't seem to understand much about COVID-19.

you're right. I'm no medical professional but a lot of what they're saying about it just doesn't add up to me. I mean people younger than me and in better shape than me have died from this but I could have it and not even know it and run a marathon right now if I was able to? It almost sounds to me like a scare tactic for people to kake the virus sound worse than it is. I even read an article saying how Fauci said we don't have to worry about asymptomatic people and then has now changed what he said. It just sounds phony 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/13/2020 at 12:01 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

When everyone takes the antibody test the world will be shocked how many people had this and didn't know (asymptomatic)

 

I don't want to derail this, but keep in mind the reliability of a good antibody tests depends entirely on prevalence.  Mosey over to the Facts-only thread for a pictorial explanation.

 

Fast track version:

Test with 95% specificity means 5% false positives.  5% of 329 million people is 16.5M false positives

If 50% of the population has had the disease, that means 164.5M true positives => 91% chance that your "positive" result is a true positive.  YAY!

50% is also the target figure for herd immunity with a basic reproduction number of 2.0, double YAY!

 

If only 5% of the population has had the disease, that means 16.45M true positives => 50% chance that your "positive" result is a true positive.  Not so "yay"!

 

Bottom line, I hope you're right, it's a beautiful outcome for US in so many ways

Also bottom line, the current estimates of prevalence for the US are running more like 5% (higher in some big cities).

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Yes, I would. This whole social distancing thing is ridiculous anyway. I saw one guy on tv say that walking down the street in NYC is unsafe because of the crowded sidewalks. You can't even walk past people? That just sounds stupid. Unless someone has symptoms, it's probably ok to be near them. I still can't wrap my head around how a virus this deadly that's causing a nationwide shutdown could cause no symptoms whatsoever. So, someone can be more symptomatic with a simple little sinus or allergy problem but walk around with this virus without showing any signs of it and feeling perfectly normal? Sounds a little weird to me

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

you're right. I'm no medical professional but a lot of what they're saying about it just doesn't add up to me. I mean people younger than me and in better shape than me have died from this but I could have it and not even know it and run a marathon right now if I was able to? It almost sounds to me like a scare tactic for people to kake the virus sound worse than it is. I even read an article saying how Fauci said we don't have to worry about asymptomatic people and then has now changed what he said. It just sounds phony 

 

I'll take this one, then I'd like to re-direct you to either the OTW covid discussion thread or the PPP covid discussion thread, depending upon your personal preferences.

 

This is a novel disease.  Experts looked at the data they have initially, and drew conclusions based on that data.  Later different data came out, justifying a change of conclusions.  It's not unlike sports in that regard - pundits start the season thinking "these are the good teams, these are the bad teams" then data (game results) come out and smart pundits are data-driven and change their mind.  You know, how the Browns and Jets were gonna be a Superbowl contendera and the Bills would suck, August 2019.

 

Initially the WHO-China joint report was saying that true asymptomatic cases were only 1-2%.  Therefore, experts concluded asymptomatic people were not a major driver of transmission.  They also believed that the virus wasn't staying suspended (in aerosols) for long, so just a bit of distance (3 feet) and no face covering was fine.

New data:

1) Several reliable countries with lots of testing show now 20-25% asymptomatic people.  Some studies (Iceland, some Italian towns, cruise ship) have measured as high as 40-50%.

2) Several outbreaks in US have been traced to groups which were practicing social distancing (no physical contact, 3' spacing) and attended by no one symptomatic - Example Skagit County choir practice 45 of 60 attendees contracted covid-19, no attendee had symptoms at the time.
3) NEJM Study showed that covid-19 may remain suspended in aerosols up to 3 hrs.

4) Observationally, the countries with the best success containing their epidemics and keeping life normal and business open are all wearing masks in public.

So your "probably safe" is NOT in keeping with the current best data.  It's the exact analogue of insisting the Bills still suck and the Browns are still a Superbowl contender after Thanksgiving 2019.  The smart people are flexible, and change their thinking to adapt to new information.  Wear a mask.  Stay away from people.

 

How can one person become seriously ill but another run a marathon right now?  Welcome to the Wonderful Variability of the Human Immune System.  One person gets Hella sick from something another person shrugs off.  While covid-19 is a novel disease, this principle is NOT novel.  Example: Polio is kind of a mild flu in ~98% of adults who contract it, and a horrible, paralytic disease leading to death without advanced life support in ~1%.   Per Mayo clinic "The majority of people who are infected with polio don't get sick and aren't aware they've been infected".

We haven't had to worry too much about polio in the US since the first vaccine in 1955.  Older physicians and great-grandparents can tell you that the reason Polio was feared and so hard to control, was precisely BECAUSE it was a mild (even asymptomatic) disease in the majority of the people who contracted it, very difficult to distinguish from flu or other seasonal viruses. 

Covid-19 may be the Polio of our time.

 

And putting my Mod hat on, no I will not allow repeated and extended discussion of covid-19 outside the covid-19 threads.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

There are several well established places here where covid-19 can be discussed freely on Two Bills Drive:

-one discussion thread  in Off the Wall where political diversions and some inaccurate info are minimized

-one in PPP where pretty much "anything goes". 

 

The point is to maintain a place where we can discuss football and football-related stuff here on The Stadium Wall - which would include opinions about whether or not you, personally, would attend a game or what conditions you, personally, would like to see to feel comfortable with that

 

I'd prefer to leave this thread open, but if I have to keep coming by pruning it because folks just can't stop themselves from general covid discussion, it'll lock

 

 

[Section27]

This is a very significant event,

First, there is a substantial level of misunderstanding regarding vaccines. There were 300 million deaths from smallpox in the the 20th century. That is the entire population of the US. Health care workers risked their lives to immunize people in third world countries in efforts to eradicate this horrific disease. Eradication of smallpox was an amazing achievement. Read up on this. Smallpox was horrible. Polio was a terrible disease. Parents would not let their children out doors in the summer as they feared polio. I was one of the first to get the polio vaccine. I remember standing in line at the school getting the vaccine. We are far removed from the devastation of these diseases. Measles, rubella, mumps, etc. Immunizations have been so successful, people today do not understand how successful vaccines are. A vaccine for covid would be wonderful.

Covid is horrific. Just because people have different responses to infection does not diminish how serious this is. We are now seeing 2,000 deaths a day from this, despite the most extreme restrictions in history. That would approach 1 mlllion deaths in a year. We need to take every caution possible.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

21 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't want to derail this, but keep in mind the reliability of a good antibody tests depends entirely on prevalence.  Mosey over to the Facts-only thread for a pictorial explanation.

 

Fast track version:

Test with 95% specificity means 5% false positives.  5% of 329 million people is 16.5M false positives

If 50% of the population has had the disease, that means 164.5M true positives => 91% chance that your "positive" result is a true positive.  YAY!

50% is also the target figure for herd immunity with a basic reproduction number of 2.0, double YAY!

 

If only 5% of the population has had the disease, that means 16.45M true positives => 50% chance that your "positive" result is a true positive.  Not so "yay"!

 

Bottom line, I hope you're right, it's a beautiful outcome for US in so many ways

Also bottom line, the current estimates of prevalence for the US are running more like 5% (higher in some big cities).

 

 

 

Nerd. ?

[babulator]

I was telling my wife how mad I'll be if they pull the plug on this season, This is our year, right???

Id go without batting an eye. I'm just wondering how I'll make it to the following game after I get it... 14 day quarantine and all.

One game at a time I guess

[chaccof]

On 4/10/2020 at 8:15 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Everytime I drive by Wegmans it's packed with cars.

Went to Wegman's in Richmond, VA last week to get Weber's mustard and Sahlen's hot dogs and the place was a zoo.  Gonna have to do without both until this crisis clears up or the vaccine comes out.   I'd personally be hard pressed to go to any sporting event, theater, movie house, etc. until more is known about transmission and measures taken or a vaccine comes out.  

[Punching Bag]

32 minutes ago, chaccof said:

Went to Wegman's in Richmond, VA last week to get Weber's mustard and Sahlen's hot dogs and the place was a zoo.  Gonna have to do without both until this crisis clears up or the vaccine comes out.   I'd personally be hard pressed to go to any sporting event, theater, movie house, etc. until more is known about transmission and measures taken or a vaccine comes out.  

 

They have curbside pickup and delivery.

[Mr. WEO]

I always get a shot of Penicillin before I head to a game....

[Niagara Bill]

Attending a game without a vaccine will never happen. Suicide.