Would you keep the HC\GM combo if Allen doesn't work out.

[Green Lightning]

11 hours ago, Augie said:

Absolutely. 

 

I said before last season I would give the FO another crack at QB if Josh doesn’t work out. They have done a good job in so many respects, and picking a QB is a total crap shoot. They have added a TON of talent. 

 

But bottom line...........I think Josh will be The Man! 

Yes on both points...I hope!!!

[chris heff]

What I’m most concerned about is where are they going to find FAs when there are no players left on the Panthers that they know?

[The Dean]

3 minutes ago, chris heff said:

What I’m most concerned about is where are they going to find FAs when there are no players left on the Panthers that they know?

 

 

The Bills sign a lot of players from the Panthers? Really? I don't think anyone has ever pointed that out before. Very original!

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

48 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Not the dreaded head scratching!!!

 

Of course fans will scratching their heads if the Bills finish .500 or worse. I'll be scratching my head as well (no dandruff!)  But only a stupid fan would translate head scratching into something that justifies firing the front office.

Everyone stays if they finish sub 0.500? Barring an injury to Allen a sub 0.500 season would mean an epic failure of either Allen or the coaching staff. How many OCs does McD get to pick before he gets the blame? Tampa Bay fired Dungy because he couldn’t get to the SB. 

All that said, even a mildly down year and I’m sure McD and Beane will be back. However if Allen regresses and he is the one holding back the team, a change at QB could happen. 

I think Allen plays better but still costs us a game, and McD game decisions will cost us a game. Even with that I don’t see any reason they are not division winners.

[chris heff]

21 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

The Bills sign a lot of players from the Panthers? Really? I don't think anyone has ever pointed that out before. Very original!

 

Definition of sarcasm

1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain

2a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual

b: the use or language of sarcasm

[RocCityRoller]

Yes. This duo has done a very good job of a total tear down and rebuild in 3 years.

 

Not many teams can do that and still make the playoffs in 2 of 3 years.

 

I'm not a fan of dumping a FO/HC because one QB doesn't pan out, especially if I see a good plan in place and still see good results.

 

And I think JA is still improving.

Edited March 21, 2020 by RocCityRoller

[Xwnyer]

Absolutely YES

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

Pts per/game under Coach McDermott
17.9

16.8

19.6

(some defensive/special teams touchdowns have inflated these)

 

 But safe to say...this is near bottom of league which points to a combo of philosophical/talent deficit when it comes to offense.

 

So I guess I’m not sure what it looks like ALLEN not working out.  Because this offense and Allen haven’t really been “working out” on offense for 3 seasons and yet they have 2 playoff appearances and loses.

 

Is Allen supposed to beat his own teams offensive philosophy along with the opposing team?  That might be asking ALOT!

[Ga boy]

It’s all about wins baby.  I would be highly irritated if we miss playoffs for next 2 years.  I don’t see this as probable, but possible.  It’s the NFL and Josh has been erratic.  Year 3 is important.  Here in DC area, RG3 was the answer, but things changed by year 3.  We can named others.  Go Bills!

[tcampbell104]

13 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I don’t think he will fall off... I’m more concerned of him leveling off or getting injured and Barkley having to play for an extended period of time.... we’d be screwed. Barkley blows.

a lot of backup qb's blow.

[foreboding]

Of course. We have excellent men at both key positions.

[Bob in STL]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Isn't the premise of the question that, if Allen doesn't work out, there would be no foreseeable scenario of "actually winning a SB"?  If Allen is struggling (and the Bills likely not winning) in the next few seasons, how would the team be thriving?

 

 

 

The team is thriving right now and Allen is developing right now.   
 

 If Allen does not make it then you find another QB.  You do not get rid of Beane/McD because of it.  Let Beane make the changes,  which does not mean blow it up and start over.   Beane’s  body of work is more than Allen, although Allen is key because QB is always critical.  

[MrEpsYtown]

Josh needs to find his deep ball. He needs to find the balance between “game manager no turnover guy” and “gunslinger guy.” But if he hits a few deep balls last season, we score a lot more points. To me he has done pretty much everything else right. If he had a guy who could make a contested catch like Diggs, we beat Houston. If they didn’t waste half the season giving meaningful reps to a meaningless Zay Jones, it would have made a difference. If Josh finds the balance, we could be true contenders and can really score some points. 
 

In terms of the braintrust, if Josh were to fail, and I truly doubt he will,  I would give them the opportunity to draft another quarterback. If that guy failed as well, then you would have to consider a change. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by MrEpsYtown

[Warcodered]

 

[Scott7975]

Yes.  Regardless of how Allen does, McBean crew has done a great job here.  Our team finally feels like a professionally run team IMO.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Pts per/game under Coach McDermott
17.9

16.8

19.6

(some defensive/special teams touchdowns have inflated these)

 

 But safe to say...this is near bottom of league which points to a combo of philosophical/talent deficit when it comes to offense.

 

So I guess I’m not sure what it looks like ALLEN not working out.  Because this offense and Allen haven’t really been “working out” on offense for 3 seasons and yet they have 2 playoff appearances and loses.

 

Is Allen supposed to beat his own teams offensive philosophy along with the opposing team?  That might be asking ALOT!

Don’t remember us scoring many defensive or ST touchdowns last year

[stinky finger]

15 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Yes, but it will be interesting to see how they handle increased expectations for the first time.  Josh is still a bit of a wildcard.  Kind of risky not upgrading the backup QB position.  

 

So, if Josh can't get it done you'd expect a back up to deliver the goods?

 

 

[stinky finger]

16 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Josh Allen isn't the acid test, McD's game management is.  Let's hope he doesn't boot another first-round playoff game against an inferior opponent.

 

I hear you, McDermott needs to be on his game.

 

However, Josh's performance will dictate just how far this team goes.....imo.

 

I'm very optimistic. 

[FireChans]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I would keep McDermott for sure and because they are tied at the hip that means keeping Beane too.

 

I like Beane but I do think some around here have a tendency to slightly over rate the job he has done so far. He is in credit, don't get me wrong, but for me to go all in on Beane one of his picks - Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Singletary, Knox, Ford.... needs to become an elite player. The one guy that this regime has picked who has become an elite player so far is Tre White and that was before Beane. I might argue the next most proven successful pick of the regime is Milano (for performance relative to value given up) and he was also the McDermott draft. If one of Allen, Edmunds or Oliver really takes off (it is likely those 3 to be honest) then I will go all in on Beane being a genius. 

I agree with all of this.

 

Beane is closer to a Whaley type GM right now. Has made some nice moves, found some hidden gems in the draft and good FA pickups, but is missing the signature pick. Has had his busts like all GM’s do.

 

It’s funny, you could make the argument that pound for pound, McD was the one who orchestrated the best offseason when he was driving the whole ship. Acquiring Poyer, Hyde, White, Dawkins and Milano is a better group of players than either Beane or Whaley ever acquired. That may change as Edmunds, Oliver and most importantly Allen grow.

Edited March 21, 2020 by FireChans

[stinky finger]

15 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

It won’t be.... if Allen struggles that badly or if Barkley is forced into action for a long period of time people will be crushing McBeane for having him as their back up. 

 

If Allen struggles, it won't matter who the back up is. 

[SeattleBills]

1 minute ago, inaugural balls said:

 

If Allen struggles, it won't matter who the back up is. 

Agree with this however having Matt Barkley as your back-up in a year that you are beginning to go “all-in” is egregious 

[stinky finger]

13 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

There is the QB and then the rest of the team. You can say he's 1/11 or whatever but it's simply not true. Getting the QB spot right is just about equal to all the other positions combined.

So if Allen regresses and they don't make the playoffs this year, then they will be on the hot seat.  If McD can't beat the Patriots with Allen and without Brady then you have to question why? As others have pointed out some of his game management is questionable while some of it is quite good. 

Long and short its deep playoff run or bust this year. Anything less and either Allen, McD, or Beane are losing their job.

 

If Allen busts this year (absolutely no indication) he could lose his job.

 

GM and coach are safe as hell.

[GoBills808]

Passing on Rosen for Allen (whether he 'works out' or not) is already a big mark in their favor imo

 

[stinky finger]

3 minutes ago, SeattleBills said:

Agree with this however having Matt Barkley as your back-up in a year that you are beginning to go “all-in” is egregious 

 

Who would you suggest as backup that you'd be comfortable with should JA go down?

 

 

[stinky finger]

5 hours ago, without a drought said:

 This will come down to winning, not Allen.

 

Ya aint getting the former without the latter.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Ya aint getting the former without the latter.

So you'd say Allen got us 10 wins and the wildcard last season?

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I agree with all of this.

 

Beane is closer to a Whaley type GM right now. Has made some nice moves, found some hidden gems in the draft and good FA pickups, but is missing the signature pick. Has had his busts like all GM’s do.

 

It’s funny, you could make the argument that pound for pound, McD was the one who orchestrated the best offseason when he was driving the whole ship. Acquiring Poyer, Hyde, White, Dawkins and Milano is a better group of players than either Beane or Whaley ever acquired. That may change as Edmunds, Oliver and most importantly Allen grow.

 

100%. That first offseason when McDermott was driving the boat netted us the two most important defensive players we have had the past 3 years, our best day 3 pick since Stevie Johnson and a starting left tackle. 

 

None of this is to say Allen, Edmunds and Oliver won't make that level where they are star players too. But we shouldn't crown Beane like they are already there. If they get there he wears the crown. No questions asked. Man if all 3 of them end up elite or borderline elite players? This team is going to win Championships. 

[stinky finger]

3 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Everyone stays if they finish sub 0.500? Barring an injury to Allen a sub 0.500 season would mean an epic failure of either Allen or the coaching staff. How many OCs does McD get to pick before he gets the blame? Tampa Bay fired Dungy because he couldn’t get to the SB. 

All that said, even a mildly down year and I’m sure McD and Beane will be back. However if Allen regresses and he is the one holding back the team, a change at QB could happen. 

I think Allen plays better but still costs us a game, and McD game decisions will cost us a game. Even with that I don’t see any reason they are not division winners.

 

You've covered all bases.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

100%. That first offseason when McDermott was driving the boat netted us the two most important defensive players we have had the past 3 years, our best day 3 pick since Stevie Johnson and a starting left tackle. 

 

None of this is to say Allen, Edmunds and Oliver won't make that level where they are star players too. But we shouldn't crown Beane like they are already there. If they get there he wears the crown. No questions asked. Man if all 3 of them end up elite or borderline elite players? This team is going to win Championships. 

Edmunds and Oliver are borderline elite imo already

 

No MLB has range like Edmunds. His versatility outweighs his flaws which I believe will be corrected with more experience

 

And Oliver is throwing grown men around inside like a 7 year vet, already. He is a wrecking ball and next year w/2 full NFL strength programs under his belt he's going to be a real problem

[stinky finger]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So you'd say Allen got us 10 wins and the wildcard last season?

 

He was instrumental, sure. 

 

For this team to progress, he needs to elevate. The pieces are in place and JA in year 3 has me extremely optimistic. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Edmunds and Oliver are borderline elite imo already

 

No MLB has range like Edmunds. His versatility outweighs his flaws which I believe will be corrected with more experience

 

And Oliver is throwing grown men around inside like a 7 year vet, already. He is a wrecking ball and next year w/2 full NFL strength programs under his belt he's going to be a real problem

 

Borderline elite already? Nah. Look I love both guys. Oliver for me had a really good rookie season and I think Edmunds took a major step forward in 2019 and I agree his range is special and he already makes special plays but he also still fails to make too many routine ones. 

 

I still think you are projecting with both what they can become if they stay on the path they are on. I don't think either is there yet.

[Troll Toll]

If Allen fails due to a lacking Offensive Line (that went unaddressed in 2020) and a critical injury or two to Diggs/Brown/Beasley where McBeane failed to address receiver depth, then McBeane may be on the chopping block. Up to this point they haven’t done Allen many favors in terms of his development. I credit Allen with his own development. Although we went to the playoffs, I’ve seen a lot of head scratchers in terms of roster, trades and game management.

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Borderline elite already? Nah. Look I love both guys. Oliver for me had a really good rookie season and I think Edmunds took a major step forward in 2019 and I agree his range is special and he already makes special plays but he also still fails to make too many routine ones. 

 

I still think you are projecting with both what they can become if they stay on the path they are on. I don't think either is there yet.

OK possibly but who would you rather have at MLB right now over Edmunds? Top of my head I can only think of Leonard, Roquan Smith, and MAYBE Jaylon Smith rn...that's where I get my take on Edmunds...

[The Dean]

10 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

If Allen fails due to a lacking Offensive Line (that went unaddressed in 2020) and a critical injury or two to Diggs/Brown/Beasley where McBeane failed to address receiver depth, then McBeane may be on the chopping block. Up to this point they haven’t done Allen many favors in terms of his development. I credit Allen with his own development. Although we went to the playoffs, I’ve seen a lot of head scratchers in terms of roster, trades and game management.

 

 

You do realize it is only MARCH of 2020? FA nowhere near done. Draft hasn't happened yet. Etc. How are you claiming the Offensive Line went unaddressed in 2020, when the addressing is just starting?

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

It’s a good question for sure.  Obviously there’s other factors, but should any team keep a regime that failed in picking a top 10 qb?  So hey can screw it up again.  
 

take away the qb position.  Is this roster that much better than our roster in 2014?  The qb position trumps everything.  Should the Bears keep Ryan Pace if they suck this year and Mitchell Tribusky isn’t good?  
 

People overreact how much difference there are between GMs/ head coaches.  For all the talk of Belichick, he has rode the greatest qb for 20 years.

 

i think they have done some nice things and hopefully this doesn’t matter because Allen is really the guy.  But they are very overrated here and can easily be replaced.  Again, hopefully it doesn’t matter.  

[stinky finger]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s a good question for sure.  Obviously there’s other factors, but should any team keep a regime that failed in picking a top 10 qb?  So hey can screw it up again.  
 

take away the qb position.  Is this roster that much better than our roster in 2014?  The qb position trumps everything.  Should the Bears keep Ryan Pace if they suck this year and Mitchell Tribusky isn’t good?  
 

People overreact how much difference there are between GMs/ head coaches.  For all the talk of Belichick, he has rode the greatest qb for 20 years.

 

i think they have done some nice things and hopefully this doesn’t matter because Allen is really the guy.  But they are very overrated here and can easily be replaced.  Again, hopefully it doesn’t matter.  

 

Yeah - you’ve seen one GM, you’ve seen them all. ?

[Cripple Creek]

15 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Is there any particular reason why he would struggle?

His OL has a 2nd year together

His weapons are improved

He made a big jump from year one to year two

 

The percentages dont really support him falling off

 

 

What percentages are those?

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

OK possibly but who would you rather have at MLB right now over Edmunds? Top of my head I can only think of Leonard, Roquan Smith, and MAYBE Jaylon Smith rn...that's where I get my take on Edmunds...

Uh the best ILB in the game, Bobby Wagner? LVE? 

 

Edmunds is a fine young player with tremendous potential. I would be very comfortable saying he may make the Pro Bowl next year. But borderline elite? No way.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Uh the best ILB in the game, Bobby Wagner? LVE? 

 

Edmunds is a fine young player with tremendous potential. I would be very comfortable saying he may make the Pro Bowl next year. But borderline elite? No way.

LVE doesn't play MLB and is injured to boot. And at this point w/mileage and age I take Edmunds over Wagner who is great but 8 years older and imo will be overtaken by Edmunds next season

 

Also Edmunds made the Pro Bowl last season

[Trogdor]

5 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

Yes.  Beane is our best GM since the super bowl years, and McDermott is our best coach since -- arguably -- forever.  No disrespect to Marv.

Our special teams and offense is terrible. He is a very good defensive coordinator, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. There are major deficiencies in his game.