ChevyVanMiller Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Agree or disagree? AFC East Buffalo Bills Best free-agent signing: S Jordan Poyer. You also could make an argument for fellow safety Micah Hyde, but the production Buffalo has gotten from Poyer far exceeds the bargain contract he signed in 2017 (four years, $12.5 million). Together with Hyde, Poyer has changed the identity of the Bills' defense. Worst free-agent signing: DT Star Lotulelei. Both general manager Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott will insist Lotulelei is more valuable than he gets credit for -- and they're probably right. But they also essentially admitted their error in giving him a five-year, $50 million contract in 2018 by restructuring his deal this offseason. Lotulelei is a space-eater who makes life easier for his teammates, but that alone is probably not worth $10 million per year. -- Marcel Louis-Jacques 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Mmmm I'd go Hyde as best and either Benjamin or Davis as worst lmao 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Mmmm I'd go Hyde as best and either Benjamin or Davis as worst lmao KB was even worse, we gave up #3 a pick, right? Biggest mistake of this regime so far I think, but it happens. I won’t harp on one single move. . Edited March 10, 2020 by Augie 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) A guy who is still on the team and contributing is the worst? Probably have to go with someone who isn't here any more. Andre Holmes? Vlad Ducasse? Maybe Jerome Felton or Percy Harvin from the previous regime. 24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Mmmm I'd go Hyde as best and either Benjamin or Davis as worst lmao Benjamin was a trade. 19 minutes ago, Augie said: KB was even worse, we gave up #3 a pick, right? Biggest mistake of this regime so far I think, but it happens. I won’t harp on one single move. Yeah, so not a Free Agent signing. Edited March 11, 2020 by MJS 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I feel like there has to be a few bad ones from 2015 and/or 2016. The entire team was run much less effectively under Whaley and Rex. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 If star is the worst, we're doing damn well. Don't understand the hate. Harrison gets hurt, we bring in a rookie, jordan, peko, corey. Star is the only stable interior player we've had the last 2 years. On a top 5 defense to boot. Marcel Louis-Jaques is an idiot. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: I feel like there has to be a few bad ones from 2015 and/or 2016. The entire team was run much less effectively under Whaley and Rex. Yeah. Like Percy Harvin. Of course, that wasn't a high risk signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dopey said: If star is the worst, we're doing damn well. Don't understand the hate. Harrison gets hurt, we bring in a rookie, jordan, peko, corey. Star is the only stable interior player we've had the last 2 years. On a top 5 defense to boot. Marcel Louis-Jaques is an idiot. I think he was fair and spot on. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Just now, CommonCents said: I think he was fair and spot on. I think he comes on here after reading that Star analysis. It might even be a poster. I read someone say that exact thing about Beane and McDermott claiming Star is doing what he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Vontae Davis should get "worst signing" award. Clearly. 15 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, CommonCents said: I think he was fair and spot on. I think there are far worse signings to consider the past 5 years. Star is on the team and contributing and is a key member of the defensive line rotation. I would submit Vlad Ducasse as a worse signing because he sucked so bad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, MJS said: I think there are far worse signings to consider the past 5 years. Star is on the team and contributing and is a key member of the defensive line rotation. I would submit Vlad Ducasse as a worse signing because he sucked so bad. It’s debatable, sure. Guys like Ducasse and Davis made far less money. That’s not what makes them worse or better though. The writer described the Star situation pretty accurately. The reason that signing was bad is that it was fundamentally unsound. You don’t pay a space eater that kind of money. It would be easy to argue that this is the only time Beane made that kind of mistake. You can see the intentions of the other signings, with Star it always felt like the inevitable overpay that didn’t need to happen. This was discussed here before Star’s last season ended in Carolina. Beane is doing a heck of a job but I think he learned a bit on this one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, Dopey said: If star is the worst, we're doing damn well. Don't understand the hate. Harrison gets hurt, we bring in a rookie, jordan, peko, corey. Star is the only stable interior player we've had the last 2 years. On a top 5 defense to boot. Marcel Louis-Jaques is an idiot. If the Bills cut Star today, no one picks him up. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: If the Bills cut Star today, no one picks him up. You're not actually serious, are you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Just now, MJS said: You're not actually serious, are you? Actually serious is my middle name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 30 minutes ago, Augie said: KB was even worse, we gave up #3 a pick, right? Biggest mistake of this regime so far I think, but it happens. I won’t harp on one single move. . As others pointed out, not a free agent signing. But also, we broke the 17 year drought because of that trade. We don’t win a couple games without him that year, especially snow game. So we got value out of it, snapping a 17 year drought with a new regime in what was expected to be a rebuilding year went a long way towards changing the culture here. So I’m fine with the value we got back with that third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: As others pointed out, not a free agent signing. But also, we broke the 17 year drought because of that trade. We don’t win a couple games without him that year, especially snow game. So we got value out of it, snapping a 17 year drought with a new regime in what was expected to be a rebuilding year went a long way towards changing the culture here. So I’m fine with the value we got back with that third. He did make a handful of plays, and we did end the drought. Still, I think even Beane and McD expected more for a 3rd round pick. He was fat, lazy and apparently disinterested. It took Zay, of ALL people, to tell him where to line up. It was great to make the playoffs, and he did help make that happen, but I can’t call it a win for the Bills. Just one guy’s opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Poyer over Hyde is truly laughable. And like someone else pointed out already I feel like Vontae was our worst signing. The guy quit on us in the middle of a game. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, ChevyVanMiller said: Agree or disagree? AFC East Buffalo Bills Best free-agent signing: S Jordan Poyer. You also could make an argument for fellow safety Micah Hyde, but the production Buffalo has gotten from Poyer far exceeds the bargain contract he signed in 2017 (four years, $12.5 million). Together with Hyde, Poyer has changed the identity of the Bills' defense. Worst free-agent signing: DT Star Lotulelei. Both general manager Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott will insist Lotulelei is more valuable than he gets credit for -- and they're probably right. But they also essentially admitted their error in giving him a five-year, $50 million contract in 2018 by restructuring his deal this offseason. Lotulelei is a space-eater who makes life easier for his teammates, but that alone is probably not worth $10 million per year. -- Marcel Louis-Jacques OK the STAR hate is getting a little stupid now...... Easily the worst FA signing was Kelvin Benjamin.....EASILY 40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: If the Bills cut Star today, no one picks him up. Oh I am in on that bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Mmmm I'd go Hyde as best and either Benjamin or Davis as worst lmao Benjamin was a trade, not a FA signing For a FA signing, Vontae Davis or Anquan Boldin would have to be worst in terms of contribution, but they may be looking at it as value on the playing field / $$ paid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Augie said: He did make a handful of plays, and we did end the drought. Still, I think even Beane and McD expected more for a 3rd round pick. He was fat, lazy and apparently disinterested. It took Zay, of ALL people, to tell him where to line up. It was great to make the playoffs, and he did help make that happen, but I can’t call it a win for the Bills. Just one guy’s opinion. Not saying its a "win" per se, just saying I'm cool with the value we got back because it was bigger than the player itself. So I am not resentful of the move nor do I fault Beane for making a mid season move to fuel a playoff push. I will always back and support Beane being aggressive to help us make a playoff run. And mid season, premiere WR's are not exactly dangling around very often, so if you need a WR sometimes you can only get whats available. And there wasn't another WR that was available at that time that was perceived as better option. So thats why I don't hold a grudge nor fault Beane for the move. In fact, I think the impact on the organization, getting Kyle to the playoffs, the impact on the locker room, the energy to the fan base in its first season with a new GM and HC, etc was all far worth the 3rd round pick. Just my 2 cents. Edited March 11, 2020 by Alphadawg7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: OK the STAR hate is getting a little stupid now...... Easily the worst FA signing was Kelvin Benjamin.....EASILY Oh I am in on that bet Not so easy. KB wasn’t a FA, as a dozen have pointed out.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 40 minutes ago, Gambit said: Poyer over Hyde is truly laughable. And like someone else pointed out already I feel like Vontae was our worst signing. The guy quit on us in the middle of a game. But he wasn't much of an investment either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) BEST: Hyde. WORST: Hard to say, they haven't had a lot of major gaffes in FA. I think if I had to pick one...it would be Kroft. Nothing personal against Kroft, but he was hurt again last year which has been a problem for him. So he wasn't able to contribute a lot to the team, and there were some other TE's on the market at the time I felt were better targets. Kroft is one of those guys who seems like he has some upside, but injuries always interfere. And with a young QB, a nice reliable veteran TE would have helped Josh. Then again, maybe they tried to get one and they weren't interested. Like Cook got to go play with Brees...doubt the Bills with a mostly unproven rookie QB who plays in the snow were going to be more appealing to him than Brees with 8 games in a dome on a SB contending team. Edited March 11, 2020 by Alphadawg7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Actually serious is my middle name. Someone would probably give him a one or two year deal for a couple mil per, but he certainly wouldn't be a FA "prize." The regime has done a tremendous job, but Star just doesn't bring enough to warrant that kind of deal/at all. His play had already fallen off in Carolina prior to the signing. I think they were trying to be judicious that offseason to really open up tons of cap space, but needed to make a couple moves. So they went with Star who had familiarity in McD's scheme. It's ok to say one particular move was a mistake. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Someone would probably give him a one or two year deal for a couple mil per, but he certainly wouldn't be a FA "prize." The regime has done a tremendous job, but Star just doesn't bring enough to warrant that kind of deal/at all. His play had already fallen off in Carolina prior to the signing. I think they were trying to be judicious that offseason to really open up tons of cap space, but needed to make a couple moves. So they went with Star who had familiarity in McD's scheme. It's ok to say one particular move was a mistake. Have a look @Carolina's defense, particularly run defense, from when Lotulelei was there and when they decided to pay Short instead. Or simply look at the Bills defense in the equivalent timeframe. Whether folks want to admit it or not Lotulelei is an important piece of the defense McDermott runs. He's been the most important part of the defensive line since they took over. If that's their biggest mistake they are batting 1.000. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Have a look @Carolina's defense, particularly run defense, from when Lotulelei was there and when they decided to pay Short instead. Or simply look at the Bills defense in the equivalent timeframe. Whether folks want to admit it or not Lotulelei is an important piece of the defense McDermott runs. He's been the most important part of the defensive line since they took over. If that's their biggest mistake they are batting 1.000. The Bills hired McDermott based primarily on his ability to coach defense. Of course they liked his presence and message, but his area of expertise is defense. It would only make sense that if the Bills made a good hire, which they did, Carolina would fall off and Buffalo would improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, CommonCents said: I think he was fair and spot on. He's complaining about money, not performance. He only chose Poyer because he's on the cheap. He's saying picking up Star was worse than a guy who quit...during a game? Even with money being his criteria, Star was well worth the $10 mil. Thing is, the complaints are because he's not doing what some here want from a dt. He's not a sack guy, he creates sack opportunities for others. He's doing exactly what the staff wants. If folks don't like his role, blame McBean. If Star was injured early last season we're not even close to a top 5 d. Peko, Jordan, Corey? Harrison gets hurt, no problem. Star is there to stabilize the interior. We rode Star to the playoffs. That's worth the $ he made. He didn't create cap hell with his contract. Davis, Kroft, Lee Smith,Gore, Murphy are worse FA signings, by far. They should be judged by performance. Edit: this is all just my opinion. I see his point, just don't agree with performance not being the main criteria. We're here to win. Edited March 11, 2020 by Dopey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: The Bills hired McDermott based primarily on his ability to coach defense. Of course they liked his presence and message, but his area of expertise is defense. It would only make sense that if the Bills made a good hire, which they did, Carolina would fall off and Buffalo would improve. They hired him as HC not DC. I'm sure they were hoping he could do more than coach defense. Regardless, there's no use in arguing with people who don't understand the position Lotulelei plays. I had it out w/multiple posters midseason who were adamant he would be benched or cut and that Phillips was the only guy worth playing, or that Peko would be able to step in and send Star to the bench lmao...and I maintained then and still do that the line relied more heavily on Lotulelei than anyone else. It's very obvious when you watch them in isolation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasMac Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Kroft is my vote besides Davis. Guy is constantly hurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 59 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Someone would probably give him a one or two year deal for a couple mil per, but he certainly wouldn't be a FA "prize." The regime has done a tremendous job, but Star just doesn't bring enough to warrant that kind of deal/at all. His play had already fallen off in Carolina prior to the signing. I think they were trying to be judicious that offseason to really open up tons of cap space, but needed to make a couple moves. So they went with Star who had familiarity in McD's scheme. It's ok to say one particular move was a mistake. Thinking it was a mistake aside, to the post by the OP, do you think it's the worst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dopey said: Thinking it was a mistake aside, to the post by the OP, do you think it's the worst? Eh. I think Murphy was probably worse. Like I said, they were intentionally not aggressive during the 2018 offseason, but they needed to snag a few. I don't think they found any gems. Doesn't mean the overall direction isn't solid, but those two guys were not quality signings. Edited March 11, 2020 by LSHMEAB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Hyde is the best. PED Murphy is the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: They hired him as HC not DC. I'm sure they were hoping he could do more than coach defense. Regardless, there's no use in arguing with people who don't understand the position Lotulelei plays. I had it out w/multiple posters midseason who were adamant he would be benched or cut and that Phillips was the only guy worth playing, or that Peko would be able to step in and send Star to the bench lmao...and I maintained then and still do that the line relied more heavily on Lotulelei than anyone else. It's very obvious when you watch them in isolation. It's almost impossible to quantify Star's contribution, so the discussion is largely academic. I'm sure he does some things well. Probably occupies a few blockers more often than others at his spot. Obviously McDermott thinks relatively highly of him as a player. I would say in some ways, Star represents my one gripe with McDermott's defense; I would rather not have 1 out of 11 defenders not even asked to make plays. I'd prefer a more aggressive defensive line. A stud pass rusher would go a long ways to solving the issues the defense had last season in terms of sacks/TO's, so we'll see what happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Considering the price, how about Lorax as the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) The article is looking at the period since 2015. Since 2015? Percy Harvin comes immediately to mind. $6 mill if I remember and a smidge over 200 yards for it. EDIT: Nope, Harvin's a distant second. Having gone back to look at 2015 again I have the definitive answer. That was the year they wildly overpaid Charles Clay. Clay wasn't a bad player but for those who think we paid too much for Lotulelei, look at the Clay deal. Lotulelei at least plays a position that our coach needs filled, and he performs on a defense that has been terrific since he got here and costs less than the offense does. (Offense $74M, Defense $63M this year according to overthecap.com) Clay got 20% more in guaranteed cash than Jimmy Graham at that time and twice the percentage Gronk got. The Bills signed him to work with Manuel or Cassel, but Tyrod won the competition and was never threw much or well to the deep or intermediate middle. And it was originally a $38M contract over 5 years with more than $20M guaranteed, but it also had a $10M roster bonus in his third year, and the Bills ended up paying that as well. Awful contract. The new regime hasn't got a contract in the Harvin - Clay neighborhood of badness. Edited March 11, 2020 by Thurman#1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Beane seems pretty savvy with what he pays players he has acquired in Free Agency, apart from Star and Kroft to a lesser extent.. On the Star deal, You can only assume that the Bills were bidding against some other team and the price was driven up.. The amount paid was a mistake in my view, but it was a rare misstep from Beane.. he gets plenty of deals right.. Cast your mind back to last year.. Morse v Paradis... I seem to recall most here wanting Paradis.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) Best FA IMO, John Brown. Brought slight relevance back to our receiving corps. Worst FA: Reggie Bush 13 games , 12 carries, -3 yards Obviously this is performance based and not monetary. By a money stand point worst is probably Star. Edited March 11, 2020 by billsbackto81 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Star has contributed. Overpaid? Sure maybe. But still not the worst FA in that time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Best - Micah Hyde & John Brown Worst - Vlad Ducasse & Vontae Davis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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