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PFF 2017 Draft Redo . 2 Bills picked in top 20.

JerseyBills

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JerseyBills

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8. CAROLINA PANTHERS: CB TRE’DAVIOUS WHITE

Previous Pick: RB Christian McCaffrey

Passing on McCaffrey might rub some fans in Charlotte the wrong way, but if given the choice, the Panthers should be taking a shutdown cornerback like White over McCaffrey 10 times out of 10. Since entering the league, White has allowed a passer rating of 59.8, over five points lower than any other cornerback with 150 or more targets over that span. In 2019, he didn’t allow a single touchdown pass into his coverage on 568 coverage snaps. Shutting down opposing wide receivers like that is simply more valuable than what McCaffrey is able to do as a ball carrier and as a receiver out of the backfield. Not to mention, it’s something that the Panthers could sorely use right now.

 

20. DENVER BRONCOS: T DION DAWKINS

Previous Pick: T Garett Bolles

The battle for the second-best tackle in the class is pretty close between Dawkins, Taylor Moton and Garett Bolles, but the Broncos opt for Dawkins in the redraft. He has been as reliable as they come in pass protection, recording pass-blocking grades above 75.0 each season of his career to this point. If he’s able to get his run-blocking consistently up to the level that we saw in his rookie season when he picked up a run-blocking grade of 78.7, Dawkins could begin to push towards that next tier of tackles around the league.

 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-redrafting-the-first-round-of-the-2017-nfl-draft

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Stank_Nasty Veteran

Stank_Nasty

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17 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Tre at 8 is insulting to be honest 

well he ended up being their 19th best rated corner by the end of this season.... so I wouldn't expect much less from them.

 

that site ranked 18 corners over white. try and wrap your brain around that. its absurd. 

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Philo RFA

Philo

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Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I honestly didn’t even read the list but a 1st team all-pro, at a premium position, gets drafted higher than 8.

 

Oh absolutely. You have Mahomes, Watson, and Garrett top 3. After that I find it hard to put anyone ahead of White. 

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JerseyBills All Pro

JerseyBills

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18 minutes ago, Philo said:

 

Oh absolutely. You have Mahomes, Watson, and Garrett top 3. After that I find it hard to put anyone ahead of White. 

Actually they have us staying at 10 and grabbing Garret. I'm sure the helmet incident is a huge reason. 

He's the 3rd defender taken behind Adams and TJ Watt , I think all 3 are All pros at their positions. Watt was also a DPOY candidate. So highly debatable. 

Bottom line , just shows how great our drafting has been. Incredible value since McDermott came along. 

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Philo RFA

Philo

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50 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Actually they have us staying at 10 and grabbing Garret. I'm sure the helmet incident is a huge reason. 

He's the 3rd defender taken behind Adams and TJ Watt , I think all 3 are All pros at their positions. Watt was also a DPOY candidate. So highly debatable. 

Bottom line , just shows how great our drafting has been. Incredible value since McDermott came along. 

 

The helmet incident is the only reason I can think of he would slip that far. You did remind me of Watt though, he could also go before White. Either way if we are redrafting based solely on how the players have done on the field then White is top 5. I wouldn't put Adams ahead of him. 

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JerseyBills All Pro

JerseyBills

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On 2/5/2020 at 11:10 AM, Philo said:

 

The helmet incident is the only reason I can think of he would slip that far. You did remind me of Watt though, he could also go before White. Either way if we are redrafting based solely on how the players have done on the field then White is top 5. I wouldn't put Adams ahead of him. 

I agree. I'd take White over Adams without hesitation. 

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TC in St. Louis Veteran

TC in St. Louis

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There was one released this week that had 3 Bills taken in the first....White, Dawkins, and our fabulous Matt Milano.

 

However, we did sort of whiff on two players who now are with the Raiders.  Zay Jones in the 2nd and Nate Peterman in the 4th.

 

Great draft, overall. Right?

 

By the way, I nearly gave this its own topic today, but searched and found this from February.  OK?

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Just Joshin'

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1 hour ago, TC in St. Louis said:

There was one released this week that had 3 Bills taken in the first....White, Dawkins, and our fabulous Matt Milano.

 

However, we did sort of whiff on two players who now are with the Raiders.  Zay Jones in the 2nd and Nate Peterman in the 4th.

 

Great draft, overall. Right?

 

By the way, I nearly gave this its own topic today, but searched and found this from February.  OK?

Jones was miss but all teams miss on 4th rounders so will not hold that against them.

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PetermansRedemption Veteran

PetermansRedemption

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Most of these guys over Mccaffrey is just laughable. This is a re-draft WITH hindsight, correct? Mccaffrey is an absolute beast and accounts for such a large percentage of Carolina’s yards. Juju, in his first season without a pro-bowl QB and one of the best receivers to ever play the game (when sane), ended with 552 yards and 3 TDS. He broke 100 yards once this season. 

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The Frankish Reich All Pro

The Frankish Reich

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I am a rare defender of PFF around here, but ...

... really, with 20-20 hindsight nobody is taking Tre White over McCaffrey. Nobody. It would make sense to say "Tre White at 27 overall has provided better value than McCaffrey at 8" but that's not the same thing as saying Carolina would have/should have taken him at 8. Just plain silly.

As for the other pick (Dawkins over Bolles): duh. Bolles is generally considered a bust. He started all last year only because the Broncos literally had no one else to take his job. They paid a lot for Juwaun James to play RT and he was barely active all year. Elijah Wilkinson was kind of the every position backup and was trash filling in at RT, and there was nobody to bump Bolles. Dawkins a solid (with upside) starting LT. No special insight needed there.

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Don Otreply All Pro

Don Otreply

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PFF has no relevance when football is being discussed.

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Mango All Pro

Mango

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On 2/5/2020 at 9:49 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

I honestly didn’t even read the list but a 1st team all-pro, at a premium position, gets drafted higher than 8.


I was sort of thinking the same thing. I think he should be around 5 or 6. I think the fact that he is a strong zone corner rather than playing a to of press man coverage (Gilmore, Revis, etc.) is what probably is keeping him out of the top 5 by PFF
 

1. Mahomes 

2. Watson

3. Kittle
4. Godwin

5. Jamal Adams 
6. Watt

7. Ramczyk

8. Tre


I do have a hard time with a TE being that high even with how good Kittle has been. I also think they went the politically correct route by keeping Garret down. 
 

 

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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On 2/5/2020 at 2:49 PM, Stank_Nasty said:

well he ended up being their 19th best rated corner by the end of this season.... so I wouldn't expect much less from them.

 

that site ranked 18 corners over white. try and wrap your brain around that. its absurd. 

 

I have explained this before but it is partly a result of teams not throwing his way. While PFF gives a positive mark for a guy who covers a receiver on the opposite side to where the ball goes to get their top grades you have to be covering guys who the ball is thrown to. And teams avoid Tre White's side so much. Call it what you want a flaw in their grading system or whatever but that is the reason. Anyone who actually looks at Tre and does not think he is elite is bonkers. 

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The Frankish Reich All Pro

The Frankish Reich

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13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have explained this before but it is partly a result of teams not throwing his way. While PFF gives a positive mark for a guy who covers a receiver on the opposite side to where the ball goes to get their top grades you have to be covering guys who the ball is thrown to. And teams avoid Tre White's side so much. Call it what you want a flaw in their grading system or whatever but that is the reason. Anyone who actually looks at Tre and does not think he is elite is bonkers. 

DeAndre Hopkins, Bonkers!

 

 
 
1qJCfhzT_reasonably_small.jpg
 
Texans made a significant halftime adjustment. In 1st half: DeAndre Hopkins lined up in slot 75% of the time to avoid Tre’Davious White. 0 receptions on 2 targets. 2nd half: Out wide 59% of time. 6-6, including 4-4 for 70 yards vs. White. Via NFL Next Gen Stats.
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Stank_Nasty Veteran

Stank_Nasty

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14 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

DeAndre Hopkins, Bonkers!

 

 
 
1qJCfhzT_reasonably_small.jpg
 
Texans made a significant halftime adjustment. In 1st half: DeAndre Hopkins lined up in slot 75% of the time to avoid Tre’Davious White. 0 receptions on 2 targets. 2nd half: Out wide 59% of time. 6-6, including 4-4 for 70 yards vs. White. Via NFL Next Gen Stats.

 Cherry picking a half of football to form an argument for or against a player makes somebody look incredibly foolish. 
 

 

.... so congrats on that. 

Edited by Stank_Nasty
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DCOrange Veteran

DCOrange

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On 2/5/2020 at 9:51 AM, whatdrought said:

Adams over White seems questionable. 

Yeah Adams and Watt were the two I disagree with. Still obviously great players so no big deal but I personally would take White ahead of them. 

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Stank_Nasty

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10 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Yeah Adams and Watt were the two I disagree with. Still obviously great players so no big deal but I personally would take White ahead of them. 

I agree on Adams but watt is a complete freaking game wrecker. That one is tough. I know our guy seems to make all his plays in the clutch. But I’ve also noticed watt totally swing games for the Steelers. That’s a real toss up IMO. You could make a real strong argument for either. 

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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32 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Omg the best wideout in the game got some catches on him lol cmon man

 

And he didn't ruin him by any means. You can count on one hand the number of guys who have given Tre rough days since he has been in the league. It is AJ Green, Hopkins, Robby Anderson and your guy Golladay. That is 4 times a guy has got the better of him in a head to head in 3 seasons. People have to remember that the other guys get paid too and it is as hard as ever to be a DB in the NFL. You are gonna lose some of those match ups. White loses them at a remarkably low frequency. 

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Buffalo716 Hall of Famer

Buffalo716

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2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I am a rare defender of PFF around here, but ...

... really, with 20-20 hindsight nobody is taking Tre White over McCaffrey. Nobody. It would make sense to say "Tre White at 27 overall has provided better value than McCaffrey at 8" but that's not the same thing as saying Carolina would have/should have taken him at 8. Just plain silly.

As for the other pick (Dawkins over Bolles): duh. Bolles is generally considered a bust. He started all last year only because the Broncos literally had no one else to take his job. They paid a lot for Juwaun James to play RT and he was barely active all year. Elijah Wilkinson was kind of the every position backup and was trash filling in at RT, and there was nobody to bump Bolles. Dawkins a solid (with upside) starting LT. No special insight needed there.

A all pro CB is more valuable than a top RB in the long haul

 

No matter how good McCaffrey is he doenst offer the value of shutting down 1-3 of the field

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GoBills808 Hall of Famer

GoBills808

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39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And he didn't ruin him by any means. You can count on one hand the number of guys who have given Tre rough days since he has been in the league. It is AJ Green, Hopkins, Robby Anderson and your guy Golladay. That is 4 times a guy has got the better of him in a head to head in 3 seasons. People have to remember that the other guys get paid too and it is as hard as ever to be a DB in the NFL. You are gonna lose some of those match ups. White loses them at a remarkably low frequency. 

Lol I do have golladay up there don’t I 

 

I don’t mean to always be talking a guy up or anything but he pops on screen to me 

 

 

 

 

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Lol I do have golladay up there don’t I 

 

I don’t mean to always be talking a guy up or anything but he pops on screen to me 

 

 

Golladay can play. He is a good receiver. Tre doesn't get beat by bums. Hopkins and Green are two of the best of their era, Golladay is one of the best young receivers in the game and Robby Anderson is a darn good receiver with elite speed. There is no shame in coming off second best there. And those are literally the only 4 guys I can remember him coming off 2nd best to in 49 games in the NFL (think the only game he has missed of 48 regular season and 2 playoffs wad the Jets week 17 game). 

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dave mcbride Hall of Famer

dave mcbride

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On 3/29/2020 at 3:12 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

And he didn't ruin him by any means. You can count on one hand the number of guys who have given Tre rough days since he has been in the league. It is AJ Green, Hopkins, Robby Anderson and your guy Golladay. That is 4 times a guy has got the better of him in a head to head in 3 seasons. People have to remember that the other guys get paid too and it is as hard as ever to be a DB in the NFL. You are gonna lose some of those match ups. White loses them at a remarkably low frequency. 

He beat him pretty badly in the second half. On that 2 pt conversion where Hopkins turned him around, Tre looked like a defeated man. Everyone has a down game, of course.

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Rico Hall of Famer

Rico

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On 2/5/2020 at 9:18 AM, JerseyBills said:

8. CAROLINA PANTHERS: CB TRE’DAVIOUS WHITE

Previous Pick: RB Christian McCaffrey

Passing on McCaffrey might rub some fans in Charlotte the wrong way, but if given the choice, the Panthers should be taking a shutdown cornerback like White over McCaffrey 10 times out of 10.

<snip>

Sherlock Holmes will not be pleased. :(

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