The plan to replace Lorenzo Alexander?

[warrior9]

In this defense, McDermott/Frazier used Lorenzo is a lot of different packages. 1st and 2nd down when on the field he played a pretty standard 4-3 LB. 

 

Where it gets interesting is on third down, he played the 3 tech (standing up) and would rush off the edge. He's 6'1 245ish so he is a pretty big body. I think his athleticism is ~ avg for an NFL LB.

 

Do they (or you) think that Vosean Joseph is this guy? He is 6'1 230 or so (now has had a full year to train so may be more now), hes super athletic, and has awesome instincts but i'm unfamiliar with his coverage ability.  I hate that we couldn't really see him play this year. In an ideal world, he is the guy. An LB corp with Edmunds, Milano, and Joseph would be an insanely athletic and fast group.

 

What do you think they do to replace him and/or what you like them to do to replace him? 

[Magox]

I think they do look for that "jackknife" sort of player who can stop the run, drop back in coverage and rush the passer.  I was hoping for Matthew Judon from the Ravens but he will probably be franchise tagged.

[oldmanfan]

I imagine Joseph will get an opportunity.  I also think they'll look for at least one more edge guy in free agency and/or the draft.

[CBennett]

Yup they have FA and or draft and im guessing FA for this type of player.

[warrior9]

Just now, Magox said:

I think they do look for that "jackknife" sort of player who can stop the run, drop back in coverage and rush the passer.  I was hoping for Matthew Judon from the Ravens but he will probably be franchise tagged.

Can Judon drop into coverage? I always viewed him more of a pass rusher. 

 

I think is Vosean can play in coverage, he'd be that jack of all trades. His tape at Florida is pretty awesome. I just don't know if they view him as MLB depth or have a greater plan.

[Magox]

4 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Can Judon drop into coverage? I always viewed him more of a pass rusher. 

 

I think is Vosean can play in coverage, he'd be that jack of all trades. His tape at Florida is pretty awesome. I just don't know if they view him as MLB depth or have a greater plan.

 

Yes he can.  He's not great but he definitely improved on that front this past year. They don't need him to be great at it just capable and he wouldn't be put in situations in my estimations to where he would be doing that on the majority of snaps.  He's a good pass rusher and my guess is that he would be rushing the passer or defending the run on most likely over 75% of the snaps he is in.

 

Here are a couple articles on it.

 

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2017/7/29/16061910/matthew-judon-shows-off-coverage-abilities-on-day-two-of-training-camp-ravens

 

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2019/12/21/21025092/matthew-judon-is-carrying-the-torch-baltimore-ravens

 

Quote

 

Matthew Judon has earned himself quite the payday this offseason. Over the past three seasons, Judon’s statistics go toe to toe with the leagues best edge defenders.

Considering that Judon was No. 3 on the depth chart in 2017 and 2018, as well as the fact that Judon drops into coverage more than any edge defender in the NFL, he deserves the money coming his way.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Magox

[RyanC883]

I think Joseph will be the guy.  I was pumped when we drafted him.  That said, I imagine we bring in a FA or another pick as competition.  Hopefully Lorax will be back in a coaching capacity and able to help Joseph the way Williams helped Oliver. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

20 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

In this defense, McDermott/Frazier used Lorenzo is a lot of different packages. 1st and 2nd down when on the field he played a pretty standard 4-3 LB. 

 

Where it gets interesting is on third down, he played the 3 tech (standing up) and would rush off the edge. He's 6'1 245ish so he is a pretty big body. I think his athleticism is ~ avg for an NFL LB.

 

Do they (or you) think that Vosean Joseph is this guy? He is 6'1 230 or so (now has had a full year to train so may be more now), hes super athletic, and has awesome instincts but i'm unfamiliar with his coverage ability.  I hate that we couldn't really see him play this year. In an ideal world, he is the guy. An LB corp with Edmunds, Milano, and Joseph would be an insanely athletic and fast group.

 

What do you think they do to replace him and/or what you like them to do to replace him? 

I think you may be correct about Joseph.  I was thinking that they may have been ready to move on from Lorenzo when they drafted Joseph but it now appears that they were selecting him to be the heir apparent going into 2020.  I should have expected it to be that way.  Beane seems to be playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Lorenzo offered great flexiblity because he played two different positions, but he is super low on the list of positions that need players.  

 

He played infrequently as a strong side linebackers. The Bills were more often than not in their nickle package, which makes sense given how much 11 personnel teams run. We of course need a strong side guy, but that player will not get more than 25% of snaps.  I wouldn't invest high priced assets in finding that player. 

 

The rest of Lorenzo's time on the field was as a pass rusher. We of course need pass rushers, but that is nothing new. I think everyone here already new we needed a new edge rusher. 

[TroutDog]

The word on Joseph, during the draft, stated that he was NOT instinctual and overran plays at times. Assuming they’ve coached that out of him, he would be the prime candidate. If not, draft/FA. 

[YoloinOhio]

I don’t think they need to replace him with the same type of player who can play both. That allowed them some nice flexibility but in reality he played an average of 10-15 snaps a game at LB. the overall numbers were inflated by the one game that Milano was out and the game vs the Ravens where they had to do some unique things vs that offense. I think you replace his production within multiple players. You can find an off ball LB to pair with Edmunds and Milano in our base D - either a vet in FA or maybe Vosean Joseph is ready. Either way you want that guy to be able to also play ST because you need to replace those snaps as well (Joseph does). Most importantly you need to replace his 264 snaps on the DL rushing the passer. We already know we need pass rush depth and this just adds to that. But I don’t think you have to try to find a unicorn like Zo to replace him. 

[DCbillsfan]

Lorax was a unique player, a 2 down LB who rushed the QB on 3rd down.  Plus he played special teams.  I don't think one player will replace Lorax.  Either they'll get a stud 3 down LB, unlikely, or have Joseph, Dodson or a FA 2 down LB along with a new pass rusher added to the mix.  Then find his replacement on teams.

 

What Yolo said.  Beat me to it.

Edited January 8, 2020 by DCbillsfan

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, DCbillsfan said:

Lorax was a unique player, a 2 down LB who rushed the QB on 3rd down.  Plus he played special teams.  I don't think one player will replace Lorax.  Either they'll get a stud 3 down LB, unlikely, or have Joseph, Dodson or a FA 2 down LB along with a new pass rusher added to the mix.  Then find his replacement on teams.

I wouldn’t sink a ton of money or a high pick into another LB when you already have Milano and Edmunds. I think you can replace that 3rd LB with a cheap vet or vosean. Then focus on the pass rush piece. 

[finn]

As I recall Vosean didn't shine in camp or preseason. The word on him was inconsistent: terrific plays mixed with blown coverages and overrun plays. Also small. Probably no coincidence they stashed him on IR. I don't think Bean would assume he can start next year; more likely he'll be allowed to compete with a FA and/or mid-round draft pick. But you never know. If they get a pass rusher and top WR in free agency and draft a WR in the first round, they could go for a OLB in the second round. 

[PaattMaann]

Zo was an average pass rusher on third downs, we can replace that. He didn't play much LB per game anyway. We can replace that. 

 

I would say I am more worried about replacing his leadership, but we have a lot of guys who are emerging as leaders on this team. So I am less worried about that.

 

Zo was a great Bills player, mostly for his attitude and community work. His football play will easily be replaced. 

[TigerJ]

Beane's strategy could trend in on of two directions.  Either, he could acquire a big name player (like Judon - most recently with Baltimore) or he could rely on multiple candidates to compete for Lorax's roster spot, Joseph, a mid level free agent, a sleeper free agent, and maybe an early day three draft pick.  I think he'll probably take the latter approach, though I can't say exactly what that will look like.  

[CountryCletus]

I would sign Cory Littleton from the Rams as a UFA... he’s a stud MLB, and then slide Edmunds outside.  I think we need improvement over Milano as well- he would be a good rotational LB, but every down player, he is not

Edited January 8, 2020 by CountryCletus

[DCbillsfan]

37 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I wouldn’t sink a ton of money or a high pick into another LB when you already have Milano and Edmunds. I think you can replace that 3rd LB with a cheap vet or vosean. Then focus on the pass rush piece. 

I agree.  That's why I thought a stud LB was unlikely.  

[warrior9]

44 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t think they need to replace him with the same type of player who can play both. That allowed them some nice flexibility but in reality he played an average of 10-15 snaps a game at LB. the overall numbers were inflated by the one game that Milano was out and the game vs the Ravens where they had to do some unique things vs that offense. I think you replace his production within multiple players. You can find an off ball LB to pair with Edmunds and Milano in our base D - either a vet in FA or maybe Vosean Joseph is ready. Either way you want that guy to be able to also play ST because you need to replace those snaps as well (Joseph does). Most importantly you need to replace his 264 snaps on the DL rushing the passer. We already know we need pass rush depth and this just adds to that. But I don’t think you have to try to find a unicorn like Zo to replace him. 

Right.. I'm going to be interested to see what kind of weight, size, etc Joseph put on in his rehab and his first NFL off-season. It would be AWESOME if he can fill right in.

49 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

The word on Joseph, during the draft, stated that he was NOT instinctual and overran plays at times. Assuming they’ve coached that out of him, he would be the prime candidate. If not, draft/FA. 

I think this was more in coverage ( I could be wrong )

 

If they can teach him downhill reads and angles, scraping, etc... his athleticism is awesome and he could be a huge asset ( I hope )

Edited January 8, 2020 by warrior9

[Billzgobowlin]

They will draft his replacement in the top three rounds a la Harrison Phillips

[MrEpsYtown]

I honestly think the best fit to replace Lorax would be Kyle Van Noy of the Pats He is an UFA and a true hybrid player. He's got length, can cover, and can rush the passer. But I think he may be in for a pretty big pay day. 

 

My next target would be Kyler Fackrell. I really liked him at draft time and I think he has the potential to do more than he has done in Green Bay. I think he is for a pay day, but not as much as Van Noy or Judon. I think he can rush the passer and can cover and he's excelled at times. I think he had like three sacks against us last year. 

 

Other guys who could fit  Bud Dupree, Vince Biegel, Jamie Collins, Judon.  Then there are traditional OLBs like AJ Klein, Nick Vigil who could fit as well.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

Do we think New England is re-signing all 3 of their UFA LBs?

Van Noy, Collins, and Roberts are all slated to hit FA. If it's Van Noy, then Edmunds could play more outside. 

@MrEpsYtown

 

Read my mind. My list right now is:

Kyle Van Noy

Jamie Collins

Mario Addison 

Kyler Fackrell

Elandon Roberts

Kamalei Correa

AJ Klein 

[Magox]

I think the Bills will strongly look to sign any one of these guys for this next upcoming year.  

 

Jadeveon Clowney, Bud Dupree, Everson Griffen, Dante Fowler, Shaquil Barrett, Matt Judon, Vic Beasley, Yannick Ngakoue and Robert Quinn.

 

 

From my view I believe it's probable that one of these guys will be in a Bills uniform for 2020.

 

The only one out of that group that I'm not super keen on is Griffen because of his age but the rest are either entering into their prime or in their prime.

[wppete]

 

[RyanC883]

@Kirby Jackson;, what are your thoughts on K'Lavon Chaisson?  You seem to know a lot about LSU, and I just saw one mock having us take him in the first. 

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2020/01/07/2020-nfl-mock-draft-wild-card-playoffs-3-rounds/5/

 

 

[Big Turk]

They better NOT be looking to take a defensive player in round 1...they need offense. Find someone in FA

Edited January 8, 2020 by matter2003

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, warrior9 said:

In this defense, McDermott/Frazier used Lorenzo is a lot of different packages. 1st and 2nd down when on the field he played a pretty standard 4-3 LB. 

 

Where it gets interesting is on third down, he played the 3 tech (standing up) and would rush off the edge. He's 6'1 245ish so he is a pretty big body. I think his athleticism is ~ avg for an NFL LB.

 

Do they (or you) think that Vosean Joseph is this guy? He is 6'1 230 or so (now has had a full year to train so may be more now), hes super athletic, and has awesome instincts but i'm unfamiliar with his coverage ability.  I hate that we couldn't really see him play this year. In an ideal world, he is the guy. An LB corp with Edmunds, Milano, and Joseph would be an insanely athletic and fast group.

 

What do you think they do to replace him and/or what you like them to do to replace him? 

Want a Vet - AJ Klein

[MrEpsYtown]

4 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

They better NOT be looking to take a defensive player in round 1...they need offense. Find someone in FA

 

I think its' wide reciever or defensive end, but it is way too early to tell. But 22 is the area that good linebackers and tight ends often fall to, so we shall see how it goes. 

[Rc2catch]

I would hope Joseph gets a shot to play and they move Edmunds around more. With his burst he’s shown he can be a deadly pass rusher when given opportunities. If Joseph and Milano can cover back there Edmunds should be free to rush or cover or spy. 
I do expect a mid tier free agent or 2 or 3 depending what they do with our current guys. And of course our usually 4th or 5th round dart on another linebacker. I don’t think well be in the running for the popular guys people want though. 

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I think its' wide reciever or defensive end, but it is way too early to tell. But 22 is the area that good linebackers and tight ends often fall to, so we shall see how it goes. 

 

I think we are going to be pretty good with Knox and Sweeney as our main receiving threats.  I don't see the need for another TE especially in round 1. Kroft almost assuredly is going to get cut and they will keep Smith as the blocking TE. Apparently so is WR considering the number of really good WR's that have been taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds the past few drafts.

Edited January 8, 2020 by matter2003

[warrior9]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

 

Exactly! I would love for him to have added 10-15 lbs between his IR year and this offseason! 

[MJS]

I think his role will require a couple different players to fill. When Taron Johnson was out they filled his role with two to three different guys based on the down and distance. We might see something similar where the Bills fill his void with a free agent plus guys already on the team.

[mannc]

51 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

They better NOT be looking to take a defensive player in round 1...they need offense. Find someone in FA

Prepare to be disappointed.  If someone like the guy from Penn State or K'Lavon Chaisson is available at 22, McDermott will not be able to help himself.  The rationale will be that in this draft, there will be good WRs available in rounds 2 and 3. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by mannc

[The Tomcat]

Bring in Luke Kuechly and slip Edmunds to outside LB

[MAJBobby]

35 minutes ago, mannc said:

Prepare to be disappointed.  If someone like the guy from Penn State or K'Lavon Chaisson is available at 22, McDermott will not be able to help himself.  The rationale will be that in this draft, there will be good WRs available in rounds 2 and 3. 

Msp you over draft DEs?  Only reason either are mentioned as first round talent is because there isn’t any. Only 2 Edge have 1st round grades IMO Young and Esperanza 

[warrior9]

7 minutes ago, The Tomcat said:

Bring in Luke Kuechly and slip Edmunds to outside LB

He's not a free agent until 2022, didn't have a great year, will be 30, has had concussions, etc... pass.

Edited January 8, 2020 by warrior9

[wppete]

1 hour ago, warrior9 said:

Exactly! I would love for him to have added 10-15 lbs between his IR year and this offseason! 

 

Yeah Hopefully he bulked up and gained strength this year while he was out. We will see what he looks like in OTAs. Haven't heard anything about him since preseason.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by wppete

[egd]

People: stop creaming your pants over Matt Judon. Baltimore sad they will franchise tag him if they can't reach a deal:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-to-use-franchise-tag-on-matt-judon-if-a-long-term-deal-cant-be-worked-out/.

Edited January 8, 2020 by egd

[mannc]

12 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Msp you over draft DEs?  Only reason either are mentioned as first round talent is because there isn’t any. Only 2 Edge have 1st round grades IMO Young and Esperanza 

Sorry.  I don't know what this means.  Can you translate or re-phrase?

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Sorry.  I don't know what this means.  Can you translate or re-phrase?

Yeah not sure what my phone posted there. Meant to say So McD overdrafts DEs. Only two DEs with first round grades Are Young and Esperanza. The rest are bumper because of lack of talent at the position. Don’t overdraft.