PFT: Uncalled helmet to helmet hit on Allen in OT could have set up GW FG

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, jkx2 said:

NFL officiating has always sucked. The difference these days is 16 cameras and alter slow motion let's you see every play from so many angles.

"Too many cam'ras and not enough food
Cause this is what we've seen
Driven to tears..."

 

Story of the Buffalo fans existence.

 

"How can you say that your not responsible?
What does it have to do with me?
What is my reaction?
What should it be?
Confronted by this latest atrocity
Driven to tears
Driven to tears
Driven to tears..."

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Ray Finkel said:

No in play penalties against Texans seems odd.  I saw Jerry Hughes getting choked out on a couple of occasions.

Like the 3rd & 18 play. He was literally tackled.

[Boatdrinks]

20 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

It kinda caught me strange.  I thought: "no way do they call it at such a critical juncture in the game"... Yet, they were doing it to the Bills all game.

 

Like the 3rd18 clock at -1 second.  The refs are that far out of sync with the public clock?  Why even have the damn thing???

 

Sure appeared the deck was stacked.

It sure did. Kind of like the last game they played in Texas on Turkey day. They were able to overcome it that night, but this time it was a bit too much. NFL wanted the Texas market tuning in to the playoffs next week. 

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

No one benefits? The Texans were called for 2 offside penalties for the entire game and overtime. They committed two delay of games on purpose, the critical one they didn't do on purpose wasn't called of course. Not a single holding call on either side of the ball, no interference, etc., and when their kick returner makes a HUGE  boneheaded mistake that would have broken them, he is let of the hook and they pretend it didn't happen. No one benefits?  GTFO of here with that bull####.

I’m making an overall statement that NFL fans and teams don’t benefit from the substandard officiating that occurs every week. That’s what I mean when I say “no one benefits”. Different teams  (except maybe the Pats) are getting a bad deal each week. Officiating should be better across the board. College football has superior officiating to what we see in the NFL every week.

 

As far as our game, we had some bad calls go against us, but we can either whine about bad calls, or simply realize that our team didn’t show up, therefore they didn’t deserve to win. Our team stunk on Saturday. The refs were awful, but that game wasn’t all their fault. If we need to win on a fluke kickoff return, we weren’t going far anyway. Blaming that loss on the refs is ridiculous, and I can’t believe how many people on this board are doing it. Here’s the list of reasons we lost: McD could coach with some guts, Allen could play smarter, our guys could block defenders, our defense could play a soft zone and tackle the ball carrier short of the sticks on a third and forever. Those are just some of the reasons we lost in addition to a few unlucky calls. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by SirAndrew

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

You could on for days with all the missed calls in an NFL game. Officiating is terrible across the board, and no one benefits from it. 

 

they really need to start firing nfl refs.  too many are lazy and don’t care.  make them earn their jobs like the players.  bring in refs from college to replace the ones who are not up to par.   

Edited January 7, 2020 by RyanC883

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

I’m making an overall statement that NFL fans and teams don’t benefit from the substandard officiating that occurs every week. That’s what I mean when I say “no one benefits”. Different teams  (except maybe the Pats) are getting a bad deal each week. Officiating should be better across the board. College football has superior officiating to what we see in the NFL every week.

 

As far as our game, we had some bad calls go against us, but we can either whine about bad calls, or simply realize that our team didn’t show up, therefore they didn’t deserve to win. Our team stunk on Saturday. The refs were awful, but that game wasn’t all their fault. If we need to win on a fluke kickoff return, we weren’t going far anyway. 

Both teams battled hard. One team benefitted greatly from bad calls and eventually won the game. What of the Texans team that got down 16-0 on their own field? Seems like they might have stunk a bit. Your take that it’s okay for one team to commit fouls and not suffer any consequences for it is awful. 

[SirAndrew]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Both teams battled hard. One team benefitted greatly from bad calls and eventually won the game. What of the Texans team that got down 16-0 on their own field? Seems like they might have stunk a bit. Your take that it’s okay for one team to commit fouls and not suffer any consequences for it is awful. 

The refs were terrible, but we still lost the game due to our own mistakes. I go into every game assuming poor officiating will need to be overcome to win. We allowed an opponent to convert a 3rd and 23 in OT. Something about makes it difficult for me to obsess over the officiating as the leading cause of this loss. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by SirAndrew

[ILBillsfan]

what about the play where the whistles blew and allen still got tagged ?

 

[IDBillzFan]

4 hours ago, Devilmann said:

Bottom line we’re up 16-0 in the 3rd. It shouldn’t have come down to depending on penalties to win that game. It’s time to get over it all. It was a all around team loss plain and simple. 

 

If they call that penalty, and the Bills win on a field goal, would that have made it a team win in your mind, or would it have simply been a lucky call in a game the Bills deserved to lose?

 

I get it. It wasn't a great game by the Bills on multiple levels. But penalties are a part of the game. When they get called AND when they DON''T get called. That was a bad non-call that SHOULD have turned the game, and poo-pooing it because you somehow think the team should have played better is kinda lazy thinking, at best.

 

One minute you're poo-pooing a flagrant non-call and the next minute the Rams are in the SB because of a flagrant non-call that would have given the Saints the ticket. 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Mmm I thought it was borderline in game but Newton never gets this call and Allen probably won't for his career trajectory. However unfair that may be

 

Now Clowney's hit on Wentz: THAT was 100% unnecessary roughness. And probably warranted more than 15 yards tbh

Disagree Clowneys hit was totally clean 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Disagree Clowneys hit was totally clean 

Dunno...

[78thealltimegreat]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Dunno...

Looks fine to me 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Looks fine to me 

Mmm disagree but whatevs

 

 

[Bookie Man]

Isn't this the clear definition of helmet to helmet? Looks like he even lunges a bit. This was the most one sided officiated game I have ever seen. They basically weren't calling ANYTHING on Houston and making the tackiest of calls on Buffalo. Along with giving generous spots and literally making up rules as they go. Maddening. 

[The Jokeman]

7 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Booger was somehow only the 2nd most annoying person in the booth. 

Yeah that other guy and all his FG talk had me at wits end. I mean it felt like he wanted to jinx is by keep talking about Haushka never missed, this is the same distance as Norwood etc etc.

[Bookie Man]

15 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Yeah that other guy and all his FG talk had me at wits end. I mean it felt like he wanted to jinx is by keep talking about Haushka never missed, this is the same distance as Norwood etc etc.

Yeah he was throwing some serious bad juju at us. It was crazy. 

[Plano]

The refs should have needed a police escort to get to their cars on Saturday.

 

We, as fans, didn't express our disapproval enough, IMO. The fans should have rioted.

8 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

The refs were terrible, but we still lost the game due to our own mistakes. I go into every game assuming poor officiating will need to be overcome to win. We allowed an opponent to convert a 3rd and 23 in OT. Something about makes it difficult for me to obsess over the officiating as the leading cause of this loss. 

3rd and 18.

 

it should have been 3rd and 23 with the delay of game penalty that wasn't called. notice half of our players were pointing at the play clock at ZERO before the ball was snapped, then caught off guard, the play began a second later.

 

hosed. the refs should be held accountable and FIRED for this travesty.

[Meatloaf63]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Off the top of my head they missed a hold on Spain in our first drive in OT..... My point is the refs didn’t cost the Bills the game. There were plays to be made that weren’t, the reason they lost.

Your point is crap, it’s not the only reason, but it is part of the reason. I could call out several Texan holds each one may have stopped the game from going to overtime.

[PatsFanNH]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

That was a nasty hit, the one by Clowney  On Wentz was worse and more obvious and also wasn’t called.  Refs were not very good last weekend.. it happens sadly.

[Doc]

11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Stop whining. Ford's block was illegal and unnecessary. Same with Hughes. Three guys had a chance to block #41 and no one did. 

We choked and it was no one's fault but our own. 

Time to move on.

No it wasn’t illegal, it had no bearing on the play and the player wasn’t even close to getting injured which is the point of making blindside blocks a penalty. The refs swallowed their whistles when it came making calls against the Texans and decided the game. 

[apuszczalowski]

But common sense says that the Texans player didn't intend to make a helmet to helmet hit so quit your whining it was the proper call......

[SirAndrew]

7 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

That was a nasty hit, the one by Clowney  On Wentz was worse and more obvious and also wasn’t called.  Refs were not very good last weekend.. it happens sadly.

Absolutely, officiating was bad this weekend, but the Buffalo Bills also played terrible fundamentally unsound football. Sadly, people seem unwilling to except that. We had a good season, and I look forward to next year. Hopefully we can improve as a team. I’ll look forward to that, as opposed to worrying about officiating. 

[Gordio]

13 hours ago, Devilmann said:

Bottom line we’re up 16-0 in the 3rd. It shouldn’t have come down to depending on penalties to win that game. It’s time to get over it all. It was a all around team loss plain and simple. 

 

 

This is a horrible argument. So we blew a 16 point lead.  That excuses the refs from 3 absolutely game altering horrible calls against the Bills in OT where any one of them would of changed the outcome of the game.

 

- The helmet to helmet hit on Allen would of setup the Bills 1st & 10 at the Houston 27

- The no call on delay of game which would of put the titans at 3rd & 23 inside their 10 yard line

- The phantom call on Ford would of put the Bills 4th & 6 at the Houston 37.  

 

Get the hell out of here with your BS.  Bills fans are sick of getting screwed & for people that keep saying every team gets blown calls against them, that maybe true but it sure seems that it happens to the Bills a lot.  

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, Gordio said:

 

 

This is a horrible argument. So we blew a 16 point lead.  That excuses the refs from 3 absolutely game altering horrible calls against the Bills in OT where any one of them would of changed the outcome of the game.

 

- The helmet to helmet hit on Allen would of setup the Bills 1st & 10 at the Houston 27

- The no call on delay of game which would of put the titans at 3rd & 23 inside their 10 yard line

- The phantom call on Ford would of put the Bills 4th & 6 at the Houston 37.  

 

Get the hell out of here with your BS.  Bills fans are sick of getting screwed & for people that keep saying every team gets blown calls against them, that maybe true but it sure seems that it happens to the Bills a lot.  

I would argue less about the Bills losing because they were screwed by the refs and more about an offence that struggled to get 20 points against one of the worst passing defences in the league. Very few defences are regularly going to hold teams to less then 20 points in a game, and penalties are called all the time against (almost) all teams on the league affecting games.

[Gordio]

1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said:

I would argue less about the Bills losing because they were screwed by the refs and more about an offence that struggled to get 20 points against one of the worst passing defences in the league. Very few defences are regularly going to hold teams to less then 20 points in a game, and penalties are called all the time against (almost) all teams on the league affecting games.

 

 

Your missing the point.  3 bad calls went against the Bills in OT that any one of them would of changed the game.  Not one offense last weekend in the 4 games played put up more than 20 points in regulation.  Do they all deserve to lose?  The Bills made mistakes but played well enough to win if the refs did their jobs.  

[PatsFanNH]

15 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

This is a horrible argument. So we blew a 16 point lead.  That excuses the refs from 3 absolutely game altering horrible calls against the Bills in OT where any one of them would of changed the outcome of the game.

 

- The helmet to helmet hit on Allen would of setup the Bills 1st & 10 at the Houston 27

- The no call on delay of game which would of put the titans at 3rd & 23 inside their 10 yard line

- The phantom call on Ford would of put the Bills 4th & 6 at the Houston 37.  

 

Get the hell out of here with your BS.  Bills fans are sick of getting screwed & for people that keep saying every team gets blown calls against them, that maybe true but it sure seems that it happens to the Bills a lot.  

As I mentioned the Wentz hit was worse AND the Eagles lost him for the entire game... They have the right complain about a blown call.. heck Clowney should have been kicked out of the game! Let’s be honest losing your star QB for the game hard overcome. 

 

The Saints AGAIN got screwed by a non OPI call that gave the Vikings the win in OT. 
 

Titans got away with numerous PI with no call. (Pats lost because of play calling IMO not refs)

 

meanwhile the Bills had this happen and still had a real chance to win if the D makes the sack and Watson doesn’t do that Houdini move to get away and complete that pass in OT.

 

My point is EVERY team could gripe about the Refs this weekend.. if ANYONE was screwed it was the Saints and Eagles.  

[Big Turk]

Just so irritating that the Texans are apparently so well coached and disciplined that they committed 0 in-game penalties against us.  Total BS.  Meanwhile they are calling ticky tack stuff against us like Ford's block.  Yeah, I know they were following the "NFL Rules" of what constitutes a blindside block but funny how they didn't use the same criteria for the 2nd half kickoff that would have been a TD for the Bills if they used the same measuring stick.

[apuszczalowski]

6 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Just so irritating that the Texans are apparently so well coached and disciplined that they committed 0 in-game penalties against us.  Total BS.  Meanwhile they are calling ticky tack stuff against us like Ford's block.  Yeah, I know they were following the "NFL Rules" of what constitutes a blindside block but funny how they didn't use the same criteria for the 2nd half kickoff that would have been a TD for the Bills if they used the same measuring stick.

But common sense says the Texans players intent was giving himself up while common sense says that Ford intended to run a blind sided block on the player.......

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Just so irritating that the Texans are apparently so well coached and disciplined that they committed 0 in-game penalties against us.  Total BS.  Meanwhile they are calling ticky tack stuff against us like Ford's block.  Yeah, I know they were following the "NFL Rules" of what constitutes a blindside block but funny how they didn't use the same criteria for the 2nd half kickoff that would have been a TD for the Bills if they used the same measuring stick.

Except they didn’t follow the rules for Ford’s block. The defender saw him coming and as such was able to absorb the impact.  

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

What missed calls were there against the Texans? And what unfair calls were made against them? Any at all that you can point out besides the unbelievably high number of in-play penalties called against Houston over the course of nearly five quarters? ?

 

 

In fairness..........the Bills coached this into a close game.

 

They had the better team with less pressure on them and they got out to a big lead and should have won with ease despite the officiating discrepancy.

 

I believe the narrative that one score games are indicative of "evenly matched" teams is mostly wives-tale material and that eventually analytics will show that the way they've shown that teams should be much more aggressive on 4th downs etc..

[Big Turk]

Just now, Doc said:

Except they didn’t follow the rules for Ford’s block. The defender saw him coming and as such was able to absorb the impact.  

 

The NFL Rule doesn't specify that the player has to not see him. It's more about his positioning of his body and the direction traveling.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In fairness..........the Bills coached this into a close game.

 

They had the better team with less pressure on them and they got out to a big lead and should have won with ease despite the officiating discrepancy.

 

I believe the narrative that one score games are indicative of "evenly matched" teams is mostly wives-tale material and that eventually analytics will show that the way they've shown that teams should be much more aggressive on 4th downs etc..

Agree 100 percent - I just think that refereeing tilts (and there clearly was one in this game) can be decisive in close games. Of course, the refs didn't cause Duke Williams to drop a TD pass, Allen to carelessly fumble at midfield, the Bills to play behind the sticks on a 3rd and 18, and Neal/Milano to fail to make an easy tackle on the game's decisive play.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

Absolutely, officiating was bad this weekend, but the Buffalo Bills also played terrible fundamentally unsound football. Sadly, people seem unwilling to except that. We had a good season, and I look forward to next year. Hopefully we can improve as a team. I’ll look forward to that, as opposed to worrying about officiating. 

I really haven't read anyone who did not admit the meltdown in the fourth and OT. So, I think everyone "accepts" that.

All the same, if you go by the letter of the law, the Bills have points off the second half kickoff. The Texans played an entire game and had zero "in play" penalties.

There were numerous pretty obvious "non-calls" that should have been in the Bills' favor and one obvious "call" against Ford that shouldn't have been.

Bills are not yet good enough to overcome nearly all the breaks and nearly all the calls going against them. 

[dave mcbride]

57 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

As I mentioned the Wentz hit was worse AND the Eagles lost him for the entire game... They have the right complain about a blown call.. heck Clowney should have been kicked out of the game! Let’s be honest losing your star QB for the game hard overcome. 

 

The Saints AGAIN got screwed by a non OPI call that gave the Vikings the win in OT. 
 

Titans got away with numerous PI with no call. (Pats lost because of play calling IMO not refs)

 

meanwhile the Bills had this happen and still had a real chance to win if the D makes the sack and Watson doesn’t do that Houdini move to get away and complete that pass in OT.

 

My point is EVERY team could gripe about the Refs this weekend.. if ANYONE was screwed it was the Saints and Eagles.  

Disagree about the Saints game. There was a ton of hand checking, and the stronger person won. That happens all the time and TEs get away with it all the time. The decisive play was the one right after Lattimore left the field. You can't let Thielen get behind the defense on a play that was as easy to predict as the sun coming up in the morning (because their best DB was out). 

[Big Turk]

13 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

What missed calls were there against the Texans? And what unfair calls were made against them? Any at all that you can point out besides the unbelievably high number of in-play penalties called against Houston over the course of nearly five quarters? ?

 

Oh let's see...I'm sure there were probably at least 5 holding calls against Hughes that didn't get called as usual it seems every game. Actually if you go back to the 3rd and 18 play I believe Hughes is getting arm wrapped around the neck. The helmet to helmet hit on Allen that didn't get called.  I'm sure there were several other plays that were worthy of penalties. There always are and some usually get called, except this game they didn't.  I mean hell, they couldn't even call the delay of game properly on the 3rd and 18 play when the play clock was expired for a full 2 seconds before the snap.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, matter2003 said:

 

Oh let's see...I'm sure there were probably at least 5 holding calls against Hughes that didn't get called as usual it seems every game. Actually if you go back to the 3rd and 18 play I believe Hughes is getting arm wrapped around the neck. The helmet to helmet hit on Allen that didn't get called.  I'm sure there were several other plays that were worthy of penalties. There always are and some usually get called, except this game they didn't.  I mean hell, they couldn't even call the delay of game properly on the 3rd and 18 play when the play clock was expired for a full 2 seconds before the snap.

I think you misread my post!!

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Agree 100 percent - I just think that refereeing tilts (and there clearly was one in this game) can be decisive in close games. Of course, the refs didn't cause Duke Williams to drop a TD pass, Allen to carelessly fumble at midfield, the Bills to play behind the sticks on a 3rd and 18, and Neal/Milano to fail to make an easy tackle on the game's decisive play.

 

 

Oh it's obvious and undeniable that officiating decides close games.    When there is little margin for error.......it happens.   

 

But FAR too many games end up closer than they should be.     And the question is would the NFL be better off if they weren't?   The drama and controversy sells.

 

Much of the drama has been taken out of MLB games by the precision of data available.    The NFL doesn't create sample sizes that are easy enough to break down like MLB so it's going to take more time to get to the same point.    But will the NFL game be as fun without all these kookie random finishes?    It's a product.   I think the quality of officiating has something to do with the fact that the NFL fears what will happen with more precise management.

 

Right now there is an advantage in being a team that's out in front of the curve and realizes how to get leads and play with leads.    The Bills are one of the more progressive teams in terms of their physical training they need to get in front of the mental training aspect and take advantage while the getting is good and there are meatheads like Bill O'Brien still coaching.   

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Oh it's obvious and undeniable that officiating decides close games.    When there is little margin for error.......it happens.   

 

But FAR too many games end up closer than they should be.     And the question is would the NFL be better off if they weren't?   The drama and controversy sells.

 

Much of the drama has been taken out of MLB games by the precision of data available.    The NFL doesn't create sample sizes that are easy enough to break down like MLB so it's going to take more time to get to the same point.    But will the NFL game be as fun without all these kookie random finishes?    It's a product.   I think the quality of officiating has something to do with the fact that the NFL fears what will happen with more precise management.

 

Right now there is an advantage in being a team that's out in front of the curve and realizes how to get leads and play with leads.    The Bills are one of the more progressive teams in terms of their physical training they need to get in front of the mental training aspect and take advantage while the getting is good and there are meatheads like Bill O'Brien still coaching.   

Good point. I think Riveron and the referees' clear grudge against the Saints/Payton is at WWF-levels now (partly because the league hasn't forgotten Bountygate and loathes seeing Payton play the martyr). It's drama and entertainment for sure with that situation, and it generates eyeballs.

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The NFL Rule doesn't specify that the player has to not see him. It's more about his positioning of his body and the direction traveling.

 
The “blindside” block, which is what it was called, needs for a player not to see the block coming and that’s not be able to brace himself, which exposes him to a greater risk of injury.  And then there’s always common sense…

But if we’re going by the letter of the law, I’ll take the fumble in the end zone touchdown and give them this.  Can’t have it both ways. Never mind the letter of the law penalties that they committed against theBills that weren't called.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Doc

[iinii]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. All the hand wringing over perceived missed calls is for whiners. To make everything right in the world why doesn’t the NFL put Buffalo and NO in the Super Bowl?