Allen slammed on ESPN

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

33 minutes ago, Billl said:

Daboll literally interviewed for a HC position today.  As far as ESPN goes, three people were given time to either praise Watson or laugh at Allen.  They chose to laugh at Allen.  Maybe that’s just multiple people in the same segment and not technically multiple segments.  Congrats to Josh apologists.  His play that this board is somehow praising only got laughed at by multiple people in a single segment on a show that gets aired multiple times rather than single people in multiple segments.

He had the second most passing yards(264) this weekend in which Brady, Brees & Wilson played. Between all the QBs playing this weekend there were 70 playoff games worth of experience and only Allen & Tannehill were first time starters. Tannehill completed 8 passes for 72 yards. Allen also had the third most rushing yards(92) this weekend only getting beat by Henry(182) & Cook(94). Henry had 34 carries, Cook had 28 carries & Josh had 9 carries. He had nearly twice the yards per carry(10.2) of any of the 15 guys with 5 carries or more. The only one that he didn't have twice as much was Henry who averaged 5.4 on Saturday.

 

He did this against a playoff team and his stats compared to other playoff players this weekend match up extremely well in his favor and that doesn't even include the 16 yard TD catch. Josh's 372 total yards(264/92/16) on Saturday would've finished second compared to all the other teams total yards only trailing Seattle's 382 yards. That's the other team's whole offense vs just our QB. That's with no favors from his offensive coordinator, who asked him to do way too much in his playoff debut only calling 21 carries by our RBs in a game we were winning or tied in almost all of the 69 minutes. Meanwhile Josh was directly involved in 56 plays(46/9/1). Why do you care what a few lousy ESPN talking heads are saying, when the data says something else? Why do you continue to bash our QB, when you should be praising him and bashing our OC. All you're doing is showing your lack of football knowledge on this subject.

[Rc2catch]

44 minutes ago, Billl said:

I’m not asking you to be bothered by the fact that your QB is getting laughed at after losing his mind in an overtime playoff loss.  I’m just saying it happened.  Doesn’t seem like a great thing IMO, but I only speak for me.

What’s with the “your QB” stuff. 
are you a buffalo bills fan? Cause that makes him your QB too right? Good or bad he’s here. Why not cheer for him and enjoy the games instead of being so negative? Who cares if people laugh or the media thinks the team is a joke or whatever? We’re fans of the buffalo bills and we enjoy watching them play and they give us grey hairs and sometimes mini heart attacks and of course heartbreak.  If people don’t enjoy it and are miserable and hate stuff involving the team and players why even watch? I’m in Tennessee and they just beat the Pats to advance and virtually every single person I talk to at work would take Allen over Tannehill after watching the wildcard games. And Tannehill has been great for them in his small sample size. Say what you want he has his flaws but I don’t think anyone can say Allen is not an exciting player sometimes good and bad. Not many players in this league can literally put people who aren’t even bills fans on the edge of their seat with wow plays good and bad. It seems like some of you guys just want to argue or be negative because people don’t want to sink down into the negativity. 
Glass half full guys are a lot of fun on here and have a good time 

Glass half empty guys are obviously not so fun because people don’t agree with them. They tend to know the future already that Allen is not going to get better, or the coach won’t adjust for those who hate him or whatever their current agenda is they need to bash over and over. 
 

There is not a person on this board who thinks Allen is playing MVP football. I don’t think there’s a single person who doesn’t think he has tons to work on his game. 
But why harp on negatives all day long? What fun is that? You keep trying to prove a point and call people apologists like you are up on some high horse spitting knowledge on this board that people are unaware of. 
FYI people know the flaws in Allen’s game. They just don’t want to be a miserable douche over it and repeat the same stuff over and over. They want the quarterback to succeed cause ya know that’s what fans do when they want their team to win games. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Rc2catch

[Mango]

23 minutes ago, Success said:

"Not going to win in this league?"  Newsflash - he already led us to our greatest one season win total in over 2 decades.  And he probably wins his 1st playoff game at 23 if the ref calls helmet to helmet, or doesn't call a phantom illegal block, or if 2 defenders can sack a QB w/ a clear shot.

 

You talk as though good QB's don't make mistakes.  To use an old phrase, you're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

Allen is a winner.  He pulled games out in the 4th quarter, on his own this past season.  We haven't had a player as exciting or purely talented in years.  I guess that makes me an "apologist," but my eyes are wide open.

 

I mean the what if goes both ways. Bills lose if the DB doesn’t drop that pick 6. If JJ Watt gets his hands on that pass. If Knox whiffs on swatting the lateral out of bounds. If Allen’s knee doesn’t hit a split second before the fumble. If Cody Ford gets called on 1/4 of his holds. 
 

I think Allen gave us a mediocre performance this year. I am not ready to crown him “The guy”. He needs to show me more as a passer. Buffalo is probably much closer to if not under .500 with a 20th ranked defense. Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow has a bunch of come backs as well (I think Allen should be better). Trubiski only had one less 4th quarter comeback this year. 
 

Allen made some very puzzling decisions and plenty of bad plays in the second half this weekend. 52%, 0TDs, and almost a couple of turn overs is sort of the Allen people are afraid of.  I think it’s fair to criticize. 
 

If he is going to translate into the 2020 version of Favre or Elway, he needs to throw a better football consistently, throw more TD’s, and take better care of the football. His Second half performance is pretty close to the same outings he’s had against other top half teams. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Mango

[Success]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

I mean the what if goes both ways. Bills lose if the DB doesn’t drop that pick 6. If JJ Watt gets his hands on that pass. If Knox whiffs on swatting the lateral out of bounds. If Allen’s knee doesn’t hit a split second before the fumble. If Cody Ford gets called on 1/4 of his holds. 
 

I think Allen gave us a mediocre performance this year. I am not ready to crown him “The guy”. He needs to show me more as a passer. Buffalo is probably much closer to if not under .500 with a 20th ranked defense. Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow has a bunch of come backs as well (I think Allen should be better). Trubiski only had one less 4th quarter comeback this year. 
 

Allen made some very puzzling decisions and plenty of bad plays in the second half this weekend. 52%, 0TDs, and almost a couple of turn overs is sort of the Allen people are afraid of.  I think it’s fair to criticize. 
 

If he is going to translate into the 2020 version of Favre or Elway, he needs to throw a better football consistently, throw more TD’s, and take better care of the football. His Second half performance is pretty close to the same as other top half teams. 

Nothing unfair about that, and I wouldn't tell fans that they can't criticize.  I would just hope that the criticism is reasonable and based on the understanding that the QB position is one of the biggest learning curves in sports.  Yes, you can have a Mahomes - but the league is also full of guys who took time to fully grasp it.  I'm not suggesting he's close to Peyton Manning, but Manning was embarrassed by BB in his 1st few playoff runs.  Then, he figured things out and got the best of that rivalry in the 2nd half of his career.

 

In general, I think fans write players off much too early.  Look at Shaq, and how most of us now hope he gets re-signed.  To me, Allen has shown incredible potential in the short time he has started.  I don't expect a QB at this stage of their career to be a fully realized player.

 

[billsfan1959]

8 hours ago, John in Jax said:

LMAO. So now I'm a simpleton and idiot because my opinion is different than yours about McDummy? I'll tell you the same thing I told the other homer, take off the blinders and maybe peruse some OTHER outlets, and you will see that they are laughing at McDummy for his unbelievable in-game decisions yesterday (and have been questioning him all year). He even threw Josh A under the bus on Saturday night! His clock management has been horrible ALL YEAR LONG. How about the Peterman experiment?! That was some brilliant assessment of talent and coaching decision there, huh? LOL

 

And exactly where are you getting this info about what NFL Execs think about McDummy? Please do tell. I think you're just blowing smoke, and shoveling some BS out.

 

If arrogance was synonymous with certainty, your posts would be unassailable.

 

BTW: I don't think your opinion about McDermott is the reason you are a simpleton and an idiot, it is a symptom.

[Jaywrizzo]

On 12/19/2019 at 6:42 AM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Start at 6:13. This is some of the most vehement hate for Allen I've seen. Methinks this should find its way to Josh...

 

 

Absolutely ridiculous!

People mad bcuz Allen came out the 2nd half of the game and made stupid plays....and people are calling him out on them? Get real.....He played, just like people who didn't like him getting picked that high, said he would. HE TRIED TO PITCH THE BALL AWAY FOR NO REASON....

[BuffaloHokie13]

6 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

People mad bcuz Allen came out the 2nd half of the game and made stupid plays....and people are calling him out on them? Get real.....He played, just like people who didn't like him getting picked that high, said he would. HE TRIED TO PITCH THE BALL AWAY FOR NO REASON....

That segment is so last decade... and was aired well before Allen played the Texans in the playoffs. 

[billsfan1959]

31 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

People mad bcuz Allen came out the 2nd half of the game and made stupid plays....and people are calling him out on them? Get real.....He played, just like people who didn't like him getting picked that high, said he would. HE TRIED TO PITCH THE BALL AWAY FOR NO REASON....

 

People, like you, who didn't like Allen "being picked that high" will always view his play through that lens...

[teef]

9 hours ago, John in Jax said:

LMAO. So now I'm a simpleton and idiot because my opinion is different than yours about McDummy? I'll tell you the same thing I told the other homer, take off the blinders and maybe peruse some OTHER outlets, and you will see that they are laughing at McDummy for his unbelievable in-game decisions yesterday (and have been questioning him all year). He even threw Josh A under the bus on Saturday night! His clock management has been horrible ALL YEAR LONG. How about the Peterman experiment?! That was some brilliant assessment of talent and coaching decision there, huh? LOL

 

And exactly where are you getting this info about what NFL Execs think about McDummy? Please do tell. I think you're just blowing smoke, and shoveling some BS out.

it's been talked about many times nationally.  you're quite the man child lately.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Jaywrizzo said:

People mad bcuz Allen came out the 2nd half of the game and made stupid plays....and people are calling him out on them? Get real.....He played, just like people who didn't like him getting picked that high, said he would. HE TRIED TO PITCH THE BALL AWAY FOR NO REASON....

 

gimmicks got a first series TD, couldn't punch it in the rest of the game

 

has to learn to execute an effective football drive routinely

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

9 hours ago, Billl said:

Daboll literally interviewed for a HC position today.  As far as ESPN goes, three people were given time to either praise Watson or laugh at Allen.  They chose to laugh at Allen.  Maybe that’s just multiple people in the same segment and not technically multiple segments.  Congrats to Josh apologists.  His play that this board is somehow praising only got laughed at by multiple people in a single segment on a show that gets aired multiple times rather than single people in multiple segments.

 

OK smart guy, YOU find us a QB who can do better since you are the all knowing GM genius of TBD after we've gone through 20+ years of bad QB play.

 

Blah, blah, blah, Josh apologists, blah blah blah... I hear ESPN is hiring more talking heads who think that Watson should have used Fuller more on Saturday.

 

GTFOH

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Billl said:

Daboll literally interviewed for a HC position today.  As far as ESPN goes, three people were given time to either praise Watson or laugh at Allen.  They chose to laugh at Allen.  Maybe that’s just multiple people in the same segment and not technically multiple segments.  Congrats to Josh apologists.  His play that this board is somehow praising only got laughed at by multiple people in a single segment on a show that gets aired multiple times rather than single people in multiple segments.

 

OK, so apparently the Browns execs think well enough to include him in a wide pool of candidates they're interviewing, so that means "NFL Execs think Daboll is Fantastic."  3 talking heads in an ESPN segment laugh at Allen (who did some boneheaded stuff at the end of the game, no doubt, and deserves to be laughed at for it) so that means ESPN is laughing at Allen in multiple segments.

 

If you are a Bills football fan, you'd do yourself a severe favor to stop watching ESPN, home of shallow reactions and total QBR, and go read something like Jim Kubiak's assessment in TBN.  He calls it like he sees it after looking carefully - lots of good, some WTF, some awful.  People who look at film notice all the stuff that's not just on Josh - the small receivers getting interfered with and jammed and unable to get open, the missed blocks that let Josh get pounded, the catches that should be made and are all over the league by better WR, the missed helmet-to-helmet calls.  They're all laughing at Josh Allen (not).

 

I'm sure NFL execs all over the league are totally impressed by play calling which sends Smith and DiMarco out wide and has DiMarco running deep, when we actually have better pass catching TE on the roster.

[Amaru523]

I couldn't care less what ESPN thinks about anything, I've lost almost all of the respect I once had for them.  If Allen played for the Jets or Cowboys he'd be the second coming of Steve Young.  ESPN only cares about their favorites and they pretty much hate everyone else.

[CBennett]

Go listen to yesterdays Sirius NFL playoff review and both the guys on that said that this was the year the Pats opened up the door and the Bills stormed in..said they said Bills fans should be stoked to have one of the best up and coming young Qb in the game and hos potential to still grow..while ALREADY getting a team to the playoffs should have us all excited..then they mentioned almost 90 million in cap room and the draft also to add to team..

 

Said they didnt know what kind of fan you are if your are not holding your head high after what they did with a 2nd year QB said they are set to win and move on in the playoffs past round 1 for years to come.

[teef]

7 minutes ago, CBennett said:

Go listen to yesterdays Sirius NFL playoff review and both the guys on that said that this was the year the Pats opened up the door and the Bills stormed in..said they said Bills fans should be stoked to have one of the best up and coming young Qb in the game and hos potential to still grow..while ALREADY getting a team to the playoffs should have us all excited..then they mentioned almost 90 million in cap room and the draft also to add to team..

 

Said they didnt know what kind of fan you are if your are not holding your head high after what they did with a 2nd year QB said they are set to win and move on in the playoffs past round 1 for years to come.

sirius has been very positive to the bills and this staff.  it has been nice to hear.

[CBennett]

10 minutes ago, teef said:

sirius has been very positive to the bills and this staff.  it has been nice to hear.

Its nice to hear I agree...I think as Bills fan after so many miserable seasons,players,coaching staffs..we get that.....every time something goes wrong we get that.."its over man..we are toast"  this staff is trying to change that and this year they DID win some big and primetime games..Dallas/Steelers... The Sirius guys I like becasue unlike many of these talking heads they

 

1. Played the game

2. Were on Coaching staffs or in Management ON actually NFL teams...not some dude that watched football and went to college for sports media type stuff..who do I trust and or respect more? The guys that have been there done/seen that more than the meida talking heads that were never there and never did that.

 

[IDBillzFan]

1 hour ago, CBennett said:

Go listen to yesterdays Sirius NFL playoff review and both the guys on that said that this was the year the Pats opened up the door and the Bills stormed in..said they said Bills fans should be stoked to have one of the best up and coming young Qb in the game and hos potential to still grow..while ALREADY getting a team to the playoffs should have us all excited..then they mentioned almost 90 million in cap room and the draft also to add to team..

 

Said they didnt know what kind of fan you are if your are not holding your head high after what they did with a 2nd year QB said they are set to win and move on in the playoffs past round 1 for years to come.

 

Kirwan and Miller, who never shy away from applying criticism, have repeatedly said the BIlls are in the best AFC East position for the long term based on Beane and McDermott building everything correctly, from the ground up. They know Allen is raw, but they like the way they staff is developing him and the people around him. Kirwan repeatedly says it takes a new HC two years, at least, to learn how to be a HC.

 

The only fans who can't see this are the fans who predicted Beane and "McClappy" and Allen would fail, and it has nothing to do with the state of the Bills and everything to do with the high-schoolish desire to insist they were right.

 

Dumbest four words you'll ever hear from a football fan: I told you so.

[Jerboski]

11 hours ago, Billl said:

Daboll literally interviewed for a HC position today.  As far as ESPN goes, three people were given time to either praise Watson or laugh at Allen.  They chose to laugh at Allen.  Maybe that’s just multiple people in the same segment and not technically multiple segments.  Congrats to Josh apologists.  His play that this board is somehow praising only got laughed at by multiple people in a single segment on a show that gets aired multiple times rather than single people in multiple segments.

Keep laughing, botton line he went 10-6 and helped this team make the playoffs in his second year and he played better than watson did his first playoff game so laugh all you want 

[row_33]

1 hour ago, teef said:

sirius has been very positive to the bills and this staff.  it has been nice to hear.

 

without a driven agenda the media should pick up on positive achievements out there

 

and the Bills were one for 2019

 

 

[teef]

20 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Kirwan and Miller, who never shy away from applying criticism, have repeatedly said the BIlls are in the best AFC East position for the long term based on Beane and McDermott building everything correctly, from the ground up. They know Allen is raw, but they like the way they staff is developing him and the people around him. Kirwan repeatedly says it takes a new HC two years, at least, to learn how to be a HC.

 

The only fans who can't see this are the fans who predicted Beane and "McClappy" and Allen would fail, and it has nothing to do with the state of the Bills and everything to do with the high-schoolish desire to insist they were right.

 

Dumbest four words you'll ever hear from a football fan: I told you so.

weis and papa were singing their praises this morning as well.

 

the people bitching are the same ones that were screaming for results 3 years ago.  they would be the first ones that would have laughed you off the board if you suggested this new staff would go to the playoffs 2 times in the first 3 years.  they get results, and the complaining continues.  at some point we just have to realize it's who they are as people. this team is in good shape moving forward.  

[IDBillzFan]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

weis and papa were singing their praises this morning as well.

 

Not sure why, but I find them tough to listen to. It's like listening to two old guys having breakfast at Dennys, talking in between bites of food. But Weis is a smart dude.

[teef]

Just now, IDBillzFan said:

 

Not sure why, but I find them tough to listen to. It's like listening to two old guys having breakfast at Dennys, talking in between bites of food. But Weis is a smart dude.

i love papa, but listening to weis's voice makes me sleepy.  i miss ross tucker.

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

gimmicks got a first series TD, couldn't punch it in the rest of the game

 

has to learn to execute an effective football drive routinely

 

 

You'd probably be the first to praise Watson or Mahomes when Hopkins or Fuller, Kelce, Watkins or Hill come down with the toe-tap at the 2 yard line that Brown misjudged and TD catch the before halftime that Duke couldn't bring in.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by SCBills

[row_33]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

You'd probably be the first to praise Watson or Mahomes when Hopkins or Fuller, Kelce, Watkins or Hill come down with the toe-tap at the 2 yard line that Brown misjudged and TD catch the before halftime that Duke couldn't bring in.

 

 

i was quite happy with the gimmick-driven TD to start the game

 

and then they.... well.... you know our Bills....

 

 

[SCBills]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

i was quite happy with the gimmick-driven TD to start the game

 

and then they.... well.... you know our Bills....

 

 

 

Allen certainly made his fair share of mistakes, but that game was such a strong indication that we desperately need help at the skill positions. 

 

All year, these guys have been an upgrade, but average at best... meaning they do exactly what you'd expect of average NFL playmakers, which is the routine stuff... nothing less, nothing more. 

 

We praise these guys when their playmakers come through for them, but then nitpick Allen because a throw could've been thrown a millisecond earlier... which it could, but the WR could also make a play... and they rarely do. 

 

Allen had 3 huge chunk play throws - Duke sideline, Duke TD and Brown toe-tap.  Throws the WR's of Watson & Mahomes routinely reel in.  

[SCBills]

13 hours ago, Billl said:

NFL execs think he’s fantastic.  Every JA apologist on here thinks Daboll is incompetent, but he’s getting consideration for HC positions.  ESPN is devoting segments to laughing at how bad Allen is, and the league is impressed with how the coaching staff made the playoffs in spite of him (and damned near won in spite of him).  
 

Daboll and McDermott scripted a perfect drive to start the game.  They called multiple forward sweeps and screens to get Josh some easy completions and let him use his legs before scheming a perfectly executed trick play.  (Why nobody is even mentioning the fact that JA slowed up and took a shot for no reason is another story).  There were zero reads for Josh to make on that drive.  He made immediate predetermined passes, ran a QB sweep, and caught a pass...a perfect formula for a great athlete who struggles with processing what he sees.

 

Hell, people are complaining about the way the first half ended.  How did it end?  It ended with the Bills starting a drive at their own 4 yard line with five and a half minutes on the clock that killed the entirety of the clock and put three more points on the board.  That’s an incredible drive.

 

First off - I like Josh Allen.  I also like Daboll.  He gets way too much criticism for plays the players don't execute. 

 

Second... You're truly struggling.  Posters here are discussing actual NFL people who are bullish on Josh Allen and you're citing Dan LeBetard.  

 

I will acknowledge that there are NFL people on ESPN who have legitimate criticisms of Josh Allen, but they tend to be directed towards decision-making and being too reckless, which are valid.  They also acknowledge that he's one of the most physically talented QB's in the league and while he was raw, is clearly showing progress.

 

Noone will ever take you seriously if you keep referencing gimmick shows built on hot takes. 

 

Feel free to take an extra L and add it to your username.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by SCBills

[Jaywrizzo]

15 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

People, like you, who didn't like Allen "being picked that high" will always view his play through that lens...

Yeah..OK....I'm a Bills fan but I'm not silly enough to have my feelings hurt by people, who watch my qb go out there and throw up all over himself....and say...he threw up all over himself. If you want to be blind to what happen...that's your fault.

14 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

gimmicks got a first series TD, couldn't punch it in the rest of the game

 

has to learn to execute an effective football drive routinely

 

Exactly....Now silly fans want to cry about people not saying.....That kid looked great out there....are you people serious?

[Jaywrizzo]

11 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

You'd probably be the first to praise Watson or Mahomes when Hopkins or Fuller, Kelce, Watkins or Hill come down with the toe-tap at the 2 yard line that Brown misjudged and TD catch the before halftime that Duke couldn't bring in.

 

Maybe we should talk about the reason why he was targeting Duke Williams so much....or why he's throwing a pass to a FB that's double covered 40 yds down the field....You make sense of that...any fool can see Allen's not Watson or Mahomes, regardless who he's throwing the ball to....This dude had the worst % on hitting a deep pass.....NO CHANCE FOR A TOE TAP WHEN THE BALL IS THROWN 10 YDS OVER THE HEAD OF AN OPEN WR...

Allen is getting slammed bcuz he played like garbage the 2nd half of the game and deserves to be getting slammed....What are they supposed to say? He played great? No...leave it to the blind fans to tell you that garbage.

[billsfan1959]

6 hours ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Yeah..OK....I'm a Bills fan but I'm not silly enough to have my feelings hurt by people, who watch my qb go out there and throw up all over himself....and say...he threw up all over himself. If you want to be blind to what happen...that's your fault.

 

My feelings are not hurt over anything. Nor am I blind to faults of Allen. My point was that people like you will always see what you want to see because you clearly have no ability to ever be open to the idea that you are wrong. And you are.

 

6 hours ago, Jaywrizzo said:

NO CHANCE FOR A TOE TAP WHEN THE BALL IS THROWN 10 YDS OVER THE HEAD OF AN OPEN WR...

 

Your response here was to someone talking about the throws to Williams in the endzone and Brown at the 2 yard line. Watch the videos below - the throws were on the money. I rest my case on what I said above and will go a bit further. Your assessment of Allen goes beyond just a refusal to acknowledge you are wrong, it shows you have absolutely no ability at all to objectively and accurately analyze football. Which, pretty much means you have absolutely no credibility on a football message board.

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

7 hours ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Yeah..OK....I'm a Bills fan but I'm not silly enough to have my feelings hurt by people, who watch my qb go out there and throw up all over himself....and say...he threw up all over himself. If you want to be blind to what happen...that's your fault.

Exactly....Now silly fans want to cry about people not saying.....That kid looked great out there....are you people serious?

Ok, let's be objective.  I know this rarely happens around here, but let's try.

 

You say Allen "threw up all over himself".  Really?  Here are the plays people keep blasting him about; let's look with a clear eye at each:

 

1.  The lateral.  The lateral was stupid.  However, the lateral came at the end of a play where Josh used his running ability to take off for a big gain and put the team in scoring position.  And while lucky, the lateral had no effect on the outcome of the game.  Funny how folks forget the run that led to the lateral at the end of the play.

 

2.  The intentional grounding.  The rush got on him quick, and what he should have done was throw the ball away to either take a shot on fourth down or take a shot at a long FG.  That was a mistake.  What also was a mistake was that Mercilous was on him within a second or two because Smith And Singletary forgot to block anyone on the play.  But we ignore that, I suppose.

 

3.  The fumble:  Josh's fumble that led them to a FG hurt.  He was in the middle of trying to figure out whether to run or pass when he got hit by Mercilous.  We can all agree I think that he needs to work on protecting the ball when running. 

 

4.  The pass to DiMarco:  DiMarco had inside position on the defenders, and if he had timed his jump a split second later he makes the catch, or at least should make the catch.  So the he question is:  why are we ragging on allen for that play?  DiMarco makes the catch we kick the FG and win.  Is it because he threw into double coverage?  NO, because again DiMarco had position.  Is it because DiMarco was a FB and not a WR?  If so , that's on the play design and not the QB.

 

Now let's talk about some things Allen did right:

 

1.  The throws right on the money shown by billfan1959 above.  Throws right on the money that guys did not come up with.  Why is it that QBs on other teams rely on their receivers to make plays, and the receivers get criticized when they don't but in Buffalo if a receiver doesn't make a play it's Allen's fault ? 

 

2.  16-0 lead in the first half.

 

3.  1:16 left and no time outs, and the QB leads the team down the field to tie the game, including (finally) a great screen to Singletary, and a great slant to Beasley to get the in position to kick the tying FG.

 

4.  In OT, move the team down the field to get in position to kick the game winner, which happens if not for the Ford penalty and/or if one of three guys blocks Cunningham on the QB sweep.

 

So threw up on himself?  Think again.  Take yourself out of your I didn't want them to draft him ergo everything he does is bad mode.  And think.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by oldmanfan

[billsfan1959]

46 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

3.  The fumble:  Josh's fumble that led them to a FG hurt.  He was in the middle of trying to figure out whether to run or pass when he got hit by Mercilous.  We can all agree I think that he needs to work on protecting the ball when running. 

 

4.  In OT, move the team down the field to get in position to kick the game winner, which happens if not for the Ford penalty and/or if one of three guys blocks Cunningham on the QB sweep.

 

Good post above, oldmanfan. I wanted to show these two plays.

 

On the fumble you referred to, you are right, he absolutely was in the process of deciding to run or pass. From different angles, you can see Beasley separating from his defender and moving toward the middle of the field. In the video below, IMO, Allen was starting to raise his arm to make that throw when Mercilus got his fingertips on the ball.

 

 

What bothers me the most about the play above is that people want to be quick to blame Allen for being reckless. Other than Hapless, in another thread, I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that Allen was still behind the line of scrimmage, moving up in the pocket, and, somehow, Knox, Singletary, and Dawkins all failed to block Mercilus as he was moving toward the pocket.

 

As for the QB sweep, right again. Unbelieveable how Knox fails to get his shoulder on Cunningham or Morse after he sees Knox whiff. This play should have been the end of the game.

 

 

In addition to the pass plays I showed above, which should have been caught by anyone's standard - and would have completely changed the complexion of the game. There were three other passes I talked about in other threads that also should have been caught:

 

The throw to Williams (11 Yds) that got called back on a penalty in the 3rd Qtr

The throw to Brown on the sideline (17 Yds) in the 4th Qtr

The throw to Williams on the sideline in the 4th qtr (20 yds)

 

All of them were perfect thows from Allen. All of them could, and should, have been caught (two actually were caught by Brown but idiotic sideline awareness negated them, and one Williams was caught but called back on a penalty). That's probably two touchdowns instead of two field goals and the complexion of the game is completely changed.

 

People want to talk about how Allen "threw up all over himself" or had a complete meltown in the second half (although, during this "meltdown," he still managed to take his team to a game tying FG, and put his team in position for a game winning FG attempt in OT (had Ford not taken that penalty).

 

The truth is: Allen made some poor decisions in the second half; however, he did a lot more good then bad. If the five catches I described in this and other posts are caught as they should have been, that's 5 more completions and 90 more passing yards for Allen  to go with his 264 passing yards, 92 yards rushing, and 16 receiving yards. That's 462 yards of total offense for Allen and a completion percentage of 62%.

 

Yeah, he "threw up all over himself."

Edited January 8, 2020 by billsfan1959

[C.Biscuit97]

First half Josh was the guy I doubted he would ever be.

 

second half was the Josh I worried he will be.

 

i love his effort but if we weren’t Bills fans, we would have laughed at some of those plays.  It was straight sandlot and a total roller coaster. I want the Bills to turn him loose to see if he can carry the offense but I worry he might be Jameis Winston with turnovers if they do that. 
 

but as critical as I have been about him being picked, dude plays his butt off and genuinely cares. I’m still not sure if he is the guy but it was a fun season and he’s definitely not boring!  

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

First half Josh was the guy I doubted he would ever be.

 

second half was the Josh I worried he will be.

 

i love his effort but if we weren’t Bills fans, we would have laughed at some of those plays.  It was straight sandlot and a total roller coaster. I want the Bills to turn him loose to see if he can carry the offense but I worry he might be Jameis Winston with turnovers if they do that. 
 

but as critical as I have been about him being picked, dude plays his butt off and genuinely cares. I’m still not sure if he is the guy but it was a fun season and he’s definitely not boring!  

I believe, by this time next year, most of the questions regarding Allen will be answered - one way or the other.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I believe, by this time next year, most of the questions regarding Allen will be answered - one way or the other.

And that’s all we can hope for! I feel he will always be the guy capable of making some of the best plays of any player in the nfl and then making some of the worst ones. 
 

but it was a fun season and he certainly was a part of it. I am genuinely sad it is over. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

23 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Kirwan and Miller, who never shy away from applying criticism, have repeatedly said the BIlls are in the best AFC East position for the long term based on Beane and McDermott building everything correctly, from the ground up. They know Allen is raw, but they like the way they staff is developing him and the people around him. Kirwan repeatedly says it takes a new HC two years, at least, to learn how to be a HC.

 

The only fans who can't see this are the fans who predicted Beane and "McClappy" and Allen would fail, and it has nothing to do with the state of the Bills and everything to do with the high-schoolish desire to insist they were right.

 

Dumbest four words you'll ever hear from a football fan: I told you so.

The Second dumbest intended to set up dumbest:

 

“Im calling it now”

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Maybe we should talk about the reason why he was targeting Duke Williams so much....or why he's throwing a pass to a FB that's double covered 40 yds down the field....You make sense of that...any fool can see Allen's not Watson or Mahomes, regardless who he's throwing the ball to....This dude had the worst % on hitting a deep pass.....NO CHANCE FOR A TOE TAP WHEN THE BALL IS THROWN 10 YDS OVER THE HEAD OF AN OPEN WR...

Allen is getting slammed bcuz he played like garbage the 2nd half of the game and deserves to be getting slammed....What are they supposed to say? He played great? No...leave it to the blind fans to tell you that garbage.

 

What are you talking about?

[Lurker]

32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

First half Josh was the guy I doubted he would ever be.

 

second half was the Josh I worried he will be.

 

First half, the Texans play zone and rush four.   Allen sits in the pocket and stays calm and collected.

 

Second half, the Texans play man and blitz more.    Allen gets confused and eventually resorts to hero ball.

 

The thing that will make or break Josh's career is how he learns to handle pass rush pressure.  The NFL knows that's his weakness and he'll have to overcome it--or flame out accordingly...

 

 

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What are you talking about?

 

He has no idea...

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Lurker

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Good post above, oldmanfan. I wanted to show these two plays.

 

On the fumble you referred to, you are right, he absolutely was in the process of deciding to run or pass. From different angles, you can see Beasley separating from his defender and moving toward the middle of the field. In the video below, IMO, Allen was starting to raise his arm to make that throw when Mercilus got his fingertips on the ball.

 

 

What bothers me the most about the play above is that people want to be quick to blame Allen for being reckless. Other than Hapless, in another thread, I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that Allen was still behind the line of scrimmage, moving up in the pocket, and, somehow, Knox, Singletary, and Dawkins all failed to block Mercilus as he was moving toward the pocket.

 

As for the QB sweep, right again. Unbelieveable how Knox fails to get his shoulder on Cunningham or Morse after he sees Knox whiff. This play should have been the end of the game.

 

 

In addition to the pass plays I showed above, which should have been caught by anyone's standard - and would have completely changed the complexion of the game. There were three other passes I talked about in other threads that also should have been caught:

 

The throw to Williams (11 Yds) that got called back on a penalty in the 3rd Qtr

The throw to Brown on the sideline (17 Yds) in the 4th Qtr

The throw to Williams on the sideline in the 4th qtr (20 yds)

 

All of them were perfect thows from Allen. All of them could, and should, have been caught (two actually were caught by Brown but idiotic sideline awareness negated them, and one Williams was caught but called back on a penalty). That's probably two touchdowns instead of two field goals and the complexion of the game is completely changed.

 

People want to talk about how Allen "threw up all over himself" or had a complete meltown in the second half (although, during this "meltdown," he still managed to take his team to a game tying FG, and put his team in position for a game winning FG attempt in OT (had Ford not taken that penalty).

 

The truth is: Allen made some poor decisions in the second half; however, he did a lot more good then bad. If the five catches I described in this and other posts are caught as they should have been, that's 5 more completions and 90 more passing yards for Allen  to go with his 264 passing yards, 92 yards rushing, and 16 receiving yards. That's 462 yards of total offense for Allen and a completion percentage of 62%.

 

Yeah, he "threw up all over himself."

Anyone who has played competitive sports, and been a competitor knowS that when you keep seeing your team make mistakes around you, whiffed blocks, bad routes, bad hands, lack of body control.. you start to do to much because you feel pressed to make something miraculous happen. 
 

one reason Farve was a turnover machine on some of his Less talented teams, as one example. There are tons more examples. 

 

as the talent around the qb improves, and as the kid matures, this will go away. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

First half, the Texans play zone and rush four.   Allen sits in the pocket and stays calm and collected.

Second half, the Texans play man and blitz more.    Allen gets confused and eventually resorts to hero ball.

 

The thing that will make or break Josh's career is how he learns to handle pass rush pressure.  The NFL knows that's his weakness and he'll have to overcome it--or flame out accordingly...

 

To be fair to Allen, in other games part of the reason he struggles to handle pass rush pressure is that 1) sometimes his line does a total breakdown and gives him no protection at all 2) sometimes the plays that are called have no checkdown or hot routes 3) our best two WR struggle mightily against man.  The Ravens wrote a book on how to ***** up their route running without getting flagged for DPI and the Texans read it.  Caveat: I have not yet had the stomach to re-watch the Texans game in its entirety, so it is possible something different is going on but I doubt it, given what I've seen in the few plays I have gone back and looked at (like Allen's fumble - it's not just Singletary who whiffed on Mercilus, it's Kroft, Singletary, AND Dawkins.  C'Mon, Man!)

 

And yes, sometimes Allen gets confused too, it's gonna happen with a young QB.  If you want a good nuanced take, look at Brett Kollsman's "Unfair Criticism" piece on Youtube.  This guy is not a Bills homer or even particularly a Bills fan, and his other pieces on other QB and football teams are excellent.

[Stank_Nasty]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Good post above, oldmanfan. I wanted to show these two plays.

 

On the fumble you referred to, you are right, he absolutely was in the process of deciding to run or pass. From different angles, you can see Beasley separating from his defender and moving toward the middle of the field. In the video below, IMO, Allen was starting to raise his arm to make that throw when Mercilus got his fingertips on the ball.

 

 

What bothers me the most about the play above is that people want to be quick to blame Allen for being reckless. Other than Hapless, in another thread, I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that Allen was still behind the line of scrimmage, moving up in the pocket, and, somehow, Knox, Singletary, and Dawkins all failed to block Mercilus as he was moving toward the pocket.

 

As for the QB sweep, right again. Unbelieveable how Knox fails to get his shoulder on Cunningham or Morse after he sees Knox whiff. This play should have been the end of the game.

 

 

In addition to the pass plays I showed above, which should have been caught by anyone's standard - and would have completely changed the complexion of the game. There were three other passes I talked about in other threads that also should have been caught:

 

The throw to Williams (11 Yds) that got called back on a penalty in the 3rd Qtr

The throw to Brown on the sideline (17 Yds) in the 4th Qtr

The throw to Williams on the sideline in the 4th qtr (20 yds)

 

All of them were perfect thows from Allen. All of them could, and should, have been caught (two actually were caught by Brown but idiotic sideline awareness negated them, and one Williams was caught but called back on a penalty). That's probably two touchdowns instead of two field goals and the complexion of the game is completely changed.

 

People want to talk about how Allen "threw up all over himself" or had a complete meltown in the second half (although, during this "meltdown," he still managed to take his team to a game tying FG, and put his team in position for a game winning FG attempt in OT (had Ford not taken that penalty).

 

The truth is: Allen made some poor decisions in the second half; however, he did a lot more good then bad. If the five catches I described in this and other posts are caught as they should have been, that's 5 more completions and 90 more passing yards for Allen  to go with his 264 passing yards, 92 yards rushing, and 16 receiving yards. That's 462 yards of total offense for Allen and a completion percentage of 62%.

 

Yeah, he "threw up all over himself."

I havnt been able to shake that OT sweep. this is the first time I've seen it from that angle and its making physically ill. knox is literally looking directly at the LB before he even approaches him. i'm still at a loss over that.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Stank_Nasty