Allen slammed on ESPN

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, kbarrettb said:

Tre took back an interception to the what 17 yard line and we got 3 points.

 

You just lost all credibility. After that interception we ran on 6 straight plays before kicking the field goal. Allen didn't pass the ball once. The next time we were in the red zone we threw once on 3rd and 8 and it was a game winning touchdown. If you want people to take you seriously, take the extra 30 seconds to do some research.

[freddyjj]

29 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

He's sort of like the anti-Allen. They both move the ball well, and they both get the ball in the end zone. Jameis, however, doesn't seem to care at all about taking care of the football. Never has.

slippery mitts cuz he ain't got no napkins eating those stolen crabs legs and all those Ws - LOL - a true coach killer QB - that is Jameis!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

43 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I'm not putting much into Saturday's game. BB eats young QBs for breakfast, and he's fielding his best pass defense ever and playing at home. I hope Allen plays well, but I won't be upset if he doesn't have a great game. Few do up there. 

 

I want to see progress from the first NE game, the Ravens game, and now the Steelers game.  But these things are seldom linear.

 

43 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Literally every team has multiple drops almost every game. As I said elsewhere, I watched the Niners/Atlanta game, and both teams had at least 3 drops. It's part of the game. 

 

It's true that every team has multiple drops every game, Dave, but assuming those scoring them use consistent criteria, the Bills legit have more.  They are leading the league in drops.  Allen has literally more than twice the drop % of Winston, Jackson, Wilson, Brees, or Stafford.  He's got 50% higher rate than Mahomes.  And these are scored conservatively, not as "high degree of difficulty but catchable balls"

Our starting TE, a position is traditionally counted on as one of the sure-handed "check down" options, is literally dropping 1 out of 5 targets (20% drop rate) which is a big factor in his 58% catch %.  An average TE has a drop % of <5% and a catch % in the high 60s, 68-69%.  A top TE is mid-70s to 80s.  I don't want to rag on Dawson Knox, he has less experience actually catching balls and he's made some brilliant catches.  He, too, needs to take a big step if he's going to make it in the league.  He seems like a great guy so I hope he does.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I want to see progress from the first NE game, the Ravens game, and now the Steelers game.  But these things are seldom linear.

 

 

It's true that every team has multiple drops every game, Dave, but assuming those scoring them use consistent criteria, the Bills legit have more.  They are leading the league in drops.  Allen has literally more than twice the drop % of Winston, Jackson, Wilson, Brees, or Stafford.  He's got 50% higher rate than Mahomes.  And these are scored conservatively, not as "high degree of difficulty but catchable balls"

Our starting TE, a position is traditionally counted on as one of the sure-handed "check down" options, is literally dropping 1 out of 5 targets (20% drop rate) which is a big factor in his 58% catch %.  An average TE has a drop % of <5% and a catch % in the high 60s, 68-69%.  A top TE is mid-70s to 80s.  I don't want to rag on Dawson Knox, he has less experience actually catching balls and he's made some brilliant catches.  He, too, needs to take a big step if he's going to make it in the league.  He seems like a great guy so I hope he does.

 

 

Knox's hands are a real problem. Not arguing with that. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

I actually like the show highly questionable, think it's entertaining. 

 

Key word being entertaining, if you're watching the show for actual sports knowledge you're in the wrong place

 

Its a show that is hot takes, the host is a modern day shock jock

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Knox's hands are a real problem. Not arguing with that. 

 

It's not just Knox.  Beasley was signed to be the sure-handed slot guy.  Last year as a pure slot guy, he had a drop % of 1.1%.  He wanted an expanded route tree, and he's gotten it - but his drop rate is a not-horrid but no-longer-elite 6.4%.  He is 100% whiffing on some balls he should bring in.  It may be an adjustment thing where he and Allen practice and Allen's passes have some touch, but then in games, under pressure, Allen takes off the touch and turns up the pepper.

[kbarrettb]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Now let’s pick a game where he 4 picks.  Terrible game,  right?

 

Quit while you’re behind.

I wasn’t saying he is a good quarterback. But to make fun of Winston as a bad fantasy qb weak sauce. 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not just Knox.  Beasley was signed to be the sure-handed slot guy.  Last year as a pure slot guy, he had a drop % of 1.1%.  He wanted an expanded route tree, and he's gotten it - but his drop rate is a not-horrid but no-longer-elite 6.4%.  He is 100% whiffing on some balls he should bring in.  It may be an adjustment thing where he and Allen practice and Allen's passes have some touch, but then in games, under pressure, Allen takes off the touch and turns up the pepper.

One thing re: the Bills drop rate that should be factored in is the velocity on his throws. It's simply higher than every other QB's, and it's going to result in some drops.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

I wasn’t saying he is a good quarterback. But to make fun of Winston as a bad fantasy qb weak sauce. 

I’m not sure you know what you’re saying at this point.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

One thing re: the Bills drop rate that should be factored in is the velocity on his throws. It's simply higher than every other QB's, and it's going to result in some drops.

link pls

 

[xsoldier54]

It's ESPN.  "Nuff said.

[london_bills]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not just Knox.  Beasley was signed to be the sure-handed slot guy.  Last year as a pure slot guy, he had a drop % of 1.1%.  He wanted an expanded route tree, and he's gotten it - but his drop rate is a not-horrid but no-longer-elite 6.4%.  He is 100% whiffing on some balls he should bring in.  It may be an adjustment thing where he and Allen practice and Allen's passes have some touch, but then in games, under pressure, Allen takes off the touch and turns up the pepper.

Beasleys attitude annoys me but I'm open to being wrong. When a ball from allen was incomplete he was huffing but maybe the team needs that. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, kbarrettb said:

I wasn’t saying he is a good quarterback. But to make fun of Winston as a bad fantasy qb weak sauce. 

 

You misunderstand.  I'm not making fun of Winston as a bad fantasy QB.  Quite the contrary.

 

What "explains a lot" means is that choosing a QB according to his value as a great fantasy player may be interfering with the ability to assess a QB according to the football values that win games. 

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You misunderstand.  I'm not making fun of Winston as a bad fantasy QB.  Quite the contrary.

 

What "explains a lot" means is that choosing a QB according to his value as a great fantasy player may be interfering with the ability to assess a QB according to the football values that win games. 

 

 

Tell you how fantasy numbers are useless, Winston has a very good chance of being unsigned by the bucs after this year.. he is way way to reckless with the ball. 

[HardyBoy]

You guys know they're trolling bills fans right? Both HQ and the radio show are intentional parodies.

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, Troll Toll said:

Yeah, just look at how “global cooling” turned into “global warming” turned into “climate change”.

Or the pope admitting that a lot of priest did in fact wanna get into the boys ?. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, london_bills said:

Beasleys attitude annoys me but I'm open to being wrong. When a ball from allen was incomplete he was huffing but maybe the team needs that. 

 

The nicest thing I heard about Beasley was that after the Ravens game, when Allen was sitting by himself on a stool in the locker room (doubtless stiffening up and starting to hurt physically as well as mentally), waiting to face the press, Beasley went over and hugged him.

 

The worst thing I've seen from Beasley was in one of the early games, when Josh threw a deep incompletion to Brown (I think) but Beasley was open, he took off his helmet while he was still on the field and threw it (could have cost us a 15 yd penalty, I believe?).   Josh sort of brushed it off, saying "he's a competitor, he wants the ball, he wants to win, I'm the same way" but you could really tell a difference in the things he said about John Brown vs. the things he said about Cole Beasley, who he had more trust and rappore with.

 

Lately though, Josh seems warmer about Beas, said he works incredibly hard and praised his route running chops.

[jrober38]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not just Knox.  Beasley was signed to be the sure-handed slot guy.  Last year as a pure slot guy, he had a drop % of 1.1%.  He wanted an expanded route tree, and he's gotten it - but his drop rate is a not-horrid but no-longer-elite 6.4%.  He is 100% whiffing on some balls he should bring in.  It may be an adjustment thing where he and Allen practice and Allen's passes have some touch, but then in games, under pressure, Allen takes off the touch and turns up the pepper.

 

I don't see how a different route tree would result in an increase in his drops by 500%. 

 

I do think you're onto something saying Josh sometimes throws the ball harder than he needs to.

 

Very interesting data. 

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The nicest thing I heard about Beasley was that after the Ravens game, when Allen was sitting by himself on a stool in the locker room (doubtless stiffening up and starting to hurt physically as well as mentally), waiting to face the press, Beasley went over and hugged him.

 

The worst thing I've seen from Beasley was in one of the early games, when Josh threw a deep incompletion to Brown (I think) but Beasley was open, he took off his helmet while he was still on the field and threw it (could have cost us a 15 yd penalty, I believe?).   Josh sort of brushed it off, saying "he's a competitor, he wants the ball, he wants to win, I'm the same way" but you could really tell a difference in the things he said about John Brown vs. the things he said about Cole Beasley, who he had more trust and rappore with.

 

Lately though, Josh seems warmer about Beas, said he works incredibly hard and praised his route running chops.

 

I think this was the Brown's game. Last offensive play of the game, Allen threw up a 50/50 ball to Brown down the right sideline and Beasley was wide open in the left flat for a first down.

 

I think Beasley needs to accept that he has a young QB who is going to make mistakes. He's not getting any younger and it might be hard to be patient, but working with Josh on how they can collectively improve seems like the best option for everyone involved. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by jrober38

[John from Riverside]

I might be totally off on this but I think because Josh doesnt want to throw a interception he "turns on the pepper"

 

The faster the ball travels through the air.....the less likely a defender can come back and make a play on the ball

 

Give him hands catches that can catch the pepper.......Elway ALSO did this

[Hapless Bills Fan]

40 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

One thing re: the Bills drop rate that should be factored in is the velocity on his throws. It's simply higher than every other QB's, and it's going to result in some drops.

 

I'd be interested in some actual metrics on this?

 

I don't think Allen is very sophisticated with touch yet, and that doubtless does make his balls more challenging, but in games (not when trying to throw as hard as possible) I'd like to see some hard evidence that his velocity is "higher than every other QBs" and that it's a factor in the drops.

 

Counter points:

1) John Brown was asked about this and he said basically, after Spring OTAs he went home and turned up the Juggs machine to the max and started working to adjust.  Other QBs in the history of the NFL throw hard, and if WR want to catch for these guys, they got to adjust.

2) the balls Knox seems to drop are not usually the high DOD bullets that come whipping at him, they're the softer, "gimme" throws, and his mechanism of dropping seems to be the ol' "turn head to look upfield before catch is complete" trick