Allen slammed on ESPN

[ProcessTruster]

21 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Josh Allen has yet to quiet critics. He'll get his chance though.

Yes he has a ways to go,  but the team around him is very good,  playing complimentary football and competing.   He may always struggle with accuracy, but he is compensating for it to this point.  He is a gamer.   They are winning games.   Go Bills. 

[Billsfan1972]

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Saying he plays almost identical to last year pretty much disqualifies you from any rational discussion about Allen.

And your statements about how you want 300 yards just because it’s more exciting football, to the point of being OK ever if they lose, counts you out for rational discussion as well.

I say it because it is comical that EVERY NFL TEAM has done it every year at least once, but the Buffalo Bills.....

[Hampton Josh fan]

Dan and imbecilic Bismani are not talent evaluators.  Their show a desperate attempt to be relevant and it's not working. Bismani thinks he has a fan base that enjoys his unintelligible form of English language. This is an angry gasbag that should consider a salad.  The dad is annoying.  If the show is canceled no one will care. 

[oldmanfan]

33 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I say it because it is comical that EVERY NFL TEAM has done it every year at least once, but the Buffalo Bills.....

I will say the same thing that I and countless others continue to say to you:  who cares?

 

Just because you want to be entertained by offense doesn’t mean the team has to change its philosophy to appease you.

[Billsfan1972]

When a single team out of 32 can't do something that is achievable by every single team in the NFL at a minimum 1X/year with all manner of QB's & you are the only outlier not 1, not 2 but 3 years, you better have been deep into the playoffs, with a very good w/l % & be just smarter then anyone.

 

You need offense to win many an NFL game........  You & the Bills seem very myopic not to realize that.

[LB3]

12 hours ago, BigDingus said:

This thread is going to look really humiliating for some people in a few weeks after our first playoff game.

If you really think Josh Allen is going to rise to the occasion & start playing at a level he's not once shown he's capable of against good teams, your optimism has moved onto straight blindness. 

 

Just like in college, just like last year, he's showing when up against good teams he plays miserably. Even against bad teams he only plays "just good enough." There have been 2 games this year where he looked in control from start to finish, the 2nd Dolphins game (and which analyst is going to take that a serious sign of his skill?) and against Dallas when there was still an illusion they might be good. 

Every other time we're only in games because of a dominant defense. "Franchise" guys are supposed to do a LOT more. I mean he's nowhere near the QB's we passed over for him (Mahomes, Watson, Jackson), and at this rate it'd take years for him to approach that level. 

And they're right about how Baltimore played him. Just send the team rushing, leave people wide open and he'll still miss. He can't make reads fast enough, he holds onto the ball longer than anyone in the league, fumbles a lot, takes bad sacks often, and is more consistent on missing wide open targets than anyone I've seen. 

All that said, he CAN grow into something better, but how long will that take? He plays almost identical to the way he did last season. And just like last season, his best stretch of play was when we closed out 2018 with the weakest remaining schedule in the NFL, and coincidentally, Josh looked better! Shocking! 

He was great against the Giants. They went conservative in the second half but he was great that game.

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said:

He was great against the Giants. They went conservative in the second half but he was great that game.

And that's what I don't get.  Let him look great for 60 minutes & devise better game plans or adjustments vs. Baltimore & Pitt.  

 

V.s Pitt a 40 yard drive & 70 yard drive & that was it.  We played scared on Offense & vs. Baltimore no adjustments.

[Teddy KGB]

25 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

When a single team out of 32 can't do something that is achievable by every single team in the NFL at a minimum 1X/year with all manner of QB's & you are the only outlier not 1, not 2 but 3 years, you better have been deep into the playoffs, with a very good w/l % & be just smarter then anyone.

 

You need offense to win many an NFL game........  You & the Bills seem very myopic not to realize that.

 

Didn’t the pats defense just win the sb vs the rams ? 

12 hours ago, BigDingus said:

This thread is going to look really humiliating for some people in a few weeks after our first playoff game.

If you really think Josh Allen is going to rise to the occasion & start playing at a level he's not once shown he's capable of against good teams, your optimism has moved onto straight blindness. 

 

Just like in college, just like last year, he's showing when up against good teams he plays miserably. Even against bad teams he only plays "just good enough." There have been 2 games this year where he looked in control from start to finish, the 2nd Dolphins game (and which analyst is going to take that a serious sign of his skill?) and against Dallas when there was still an illusion they might be good. 

Every other time we're only in games because of a dominant defense. "Franchise" guys are supposed to do a LOT more. I mean he's nowhere near the QB's we passed over for him (Mahomes, Watson, Jackson), and at this rate it'd take years for him to approach that level. 

And they're right about how Baltimore played him. Just send the team rushing, leave people wide open and he'll still miss. He can't make reads fast enough, he holds onto the ball longer than anyone in the league, fumbles a lot, takes bad sacks often, and is more consistent on missing wide open targets than anyone I've seen. 

All that said, he CAN grow into something better, but how long will that take? He plays almost identical to the way he did last season. And just like last season, his best stretch of play was when we closed out 2018 with the weakest remaining schedule in the NFL, and coincidentally, Josh looked better! Shocking! 

 

If he scores 3 td’s in a playoff game will you stop posting ? 

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

When a single team out of 32 can't do something that is achievable by every single team in the NFL at a minimum 1X/year with all manner of QB's & you are the only outlier not 1, not 2 but 3 years, you better have been deep into the playoffs, with a very good w/l % & be just smarter then anyone.

 

You need offense to win many an NFL game........  You & the Bills seem very myopic not to realize that.

And there are different ways to win with offense, such as a thing called running the ball.  And there are different ways to win football games, such as with defense.  Defense wins championships, always  has, always will.

What this comes down to is this:  you have publicly stated you don't like the way the Bills are playing because to you it is not entertaining.  You want to be entertained by a lot of yards throwing the ball.  Apparently winning football games is not entertaining to you, given the 10-4 record.  You claim winning football with a 10-4 record is comical just because they don't happen to run an offense you like.  So you have choices to make.  You can either continue to rant and howl at the moon, and remind everyone here of the definition of insanity.  Or you can change your view of what is entertaining, embrace the fact that the Bills have a team that plays suffocating defense and an offense that places emphasis on running and a conservative passing game designed to not turn the ball over, and actually enjoy the run they are making this season.  Or if being entertained by a ton of passing yards is what gets you off, then change you allegiance and root for, say, Tampa Bay, where they throw for a ton of yards, an ton of picks, and are going home in a couple weeks. 

 

Your choice.

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Didn’t the pats defense just win the sb vs the rams ? 

 

If he scores 3 td’s in a playoff game will you stop posting ? 

Yep....  Congrats you found that boring terrible SB & hanging your hat on it?

 

Well without Offense Brady & NE wouldn't have beaten the Chiefs.

 

Take a look at the 2017 Playoffs & all the 300 yard games.

 

Stop too with the Defense wins championships cliche too.

[Teddy KGB]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep....  Congrats you found that boring terrible SB & hanging your hat on it?

 

Sorry for using the most current super bowl ???

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep....  Congrats you found that boring terrible SB & hanging your hat on it?

 

Well without Offense Brady & NE wouldn't have beaten the Chiefs.

 

Take a look at the 2017 Playoffs & all the 300 yard games.

 

Stop too with the Defense wins championships cliche too.

Yeah.  Why acknowledge factual history?

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Allen needs to become a lot better. It's not crazy to point that out. He's making progress, sure, but the offense overall is bad. It's of course not all on him, but he's at best an average NFL QB right now. As I've said with Allen, the two-player continuum that applies best to him is the Roethlisberger-Bortles one, and he needs to be getting closer to the left of that continuum if he's going to last. The decline in turnovers (13 on the season, which isn't bad) is a start, but there's a lot more that he has to do going forward. I think he can do it, but to assume it's a sure thing is a sign of homerism.

 

Nobody is denying that Allen needs to be better, by a lot in some respects.  However, given where he is in his career, where we are in the season, and quality of the personnel on the Bills offense, he's become a "good enough" NFL QB for this particular Bills team.   He has limitations, but his leadership and clutch play have made up for those limitations in most games.  

 

19 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

He's sort of like the anti-Allen. They both move the ball well, and they both get the ball in the end zone. Jameis, however, doesn't seem to care at all about taking care of the football. Never has.

 

A team that's serious about making the playoffs can't afford a QB who's likely to repeatedly turn over the ball in most games, no matter how many passing TDs the QB throws.

 

19 hours ago, Dopey said:

As an FSU fan, I follow Winston and watch a few of the Bucs game down here. He was a turnover machine at FSU and still doing it in the pros. Earlier this season, his coach told reporters after the game the WR's were at fault for the Int's in that particular game. Basically blamed the WR's, not Winston. He's smart as hell when it comes to football. There were cases where Jimbo Fisher would yell at him on the sidelines after a play, only to apologize after watching the film. I believe he's playing on his option year of the rookie contract. I think they franchise him next year and give it another go. Tampa needs defense in the worst way. Even when he doesn't turn it over, they have to score a ton because they can't stop anyone. They also need to get a running game going. Winston excels when he play action at his disposal.

 

Winston is essentially playing the same way as a fifth year player as he did as a second year player.  He's never improved his  most serious flaw: throwing to the wrong team.   There is absolutely no evidence that bringing in Bruce Arians -- an alleged QB whisperer -- has significantly improved Winston's play.  Franchising Winston is simply a waste of time and money.  The Bucs need to move on.

 

16 hours ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

What many people don't is the Bill's offense does not have one offense player that was a first round besides Allen.  They praise our defense what do you expect when you a unit that has 6 players starting that was selected in the first round.  When Bill's start getting Allen some more play makers watch out because the kid has done more with talent he has been given then alot of people given him credit for.

 

Agreed.  I've been very critical of Beane and McDermott for the lack of talent on offense (including coaching) -- and it's effect on Allen's development and success.  The Bills are trying to compete with offensive juggernauts with way too many players who were late draft picks or UDFAs.  Those guys in general tend to be significantly less talented than guys taken in the first.  Not many offensive playmakers come out of the ranks of Day 3 picks or undrafted players.

 

The Bills absolutely need to stop treating  the offense as a "red headed stepchild".  They need to re-sign 2 or 3 of the OLers that they signed in 2019 to 1 year contracts.   On the OL, continuity counts for a lot.  They need to add a big, sure-handed veteran receiver (WR or TE).  They need to sign or draft a better RB than Gore and Yeldon.  They need to use their first round pick -- and maybe their second rounder as well -- on the offense, hopefully finding a playmaker.

 

 

 

 

[Hampton Josh fan]

Dan is an angry gasbag, frustrated at the Dolphins being irrelevant,  who can't believe the Bills have their franchise QB. The guy is a 2nd year QB, that is a great leader who has shown toughness and has guided his team to their best year since the glory days 30 years ago. He has six 4th quarter, game winning drives,  and his receivers are a work in progress.  BISMANI is unintelligible, with a weak understanding of what works in the NFL. Perhaps, Dan should consider a salad once in a while,  and let Josh just win games for a fan base that knows what they have. 

[row_33]

43 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Sorry for using the most current super bowl ???

 

all that matters to those people is

 

1)  right here and now, no use for the past or present

 

2) that THEY did it, so it has historical significance for the rest of us

 

 

[SCBills]

13 hours ago, BigDingus said:

This thread is going to look really humiliating for some people in a few weeks after our first playoff game.

If you really think Josh Allen is going to rise to the occasion & start playing at a level he's not once shown he's capable of against good teams, your optimism has moved onto straight blindness. 

 

Just like in college, just like last year, he's showing when up against good teams he plays miserably. Even against bad teams he only plays "just good enough." There have been 2 games this year where he looked in control from start to finish, the 2nd Dolphins game (and which analyst is going to take that a serious sign of his skill?) and against Dallas when there was still an illusion they might be good. 

Every other time we're only in games because of a dominant defense. "Franchise" guys are supposed to do a LOT more. I mean he's nowhere near the QB's we passed over for him (Mahomes, Watson, Jackson), and at this rate it'd take years for him to approach that level. 

And they're right about how Baltimore played him. Just send the team rushing, leave people wide open and he'll still miss. He can't make reads fast enough, he holds onto the ball longer than anyone in the league, fumbles a lot, takes bad sacks often, and is more consistent on missing wide open targets than anyone I've seen. 

All that said, he CAN grow into something better, but how long will that take? He plays almost identical to the way he did last season. And just like last season, his best stretch of play was when we closed out 2018 with the weakest remaining schedule in the NFL, and coincidentally, Josh looked better! Shocking! 

Why should we not expect Josh Allen to play like he did against Miami, Dallas and Denver recently, when he plays defenses more along the lines, or worse, than those teams?  
 

Houston, Tennessee or KC are not Baltimore, New England or Pittsburgh defenses.  
 

 

[Teddy KGB]

16 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

all that matters to those people is

 

1)  right here and now, no use for the past or present

 

2) that THEY did it, so it has historical significance for the rest of us

 

 

 

When do we strip the bears, ravens, giants, and Steelers of their super bowl rings won by defense ? 

[Billsfan1972]

44 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yeah.  Why acknowledge factual history?

To get to the Superbowl both teams leaned heavily on theior offenses.  If they were averaging Buffalo #'s and a offense in the lower third, I expect there would havbe been no SB.

 

 

BTW find me a Bad Offense (lower third of the league) that has made the SB in the last 20 years....

[T master]

This is the exact reason why the Bills need to beat the Pats this week end !! No respect for the process ...

 

GO BILLS !! 

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Didn’t the pats defense just win the sb vs the rams ? 

 

If he scores 3 td’s in a playoff game will you stop posting ? 

Really? Just 3? Lamar Jackson has had 3 games this year where he has thrown for 5 td in each...time to expect more Bills fans...JA made great strides this year but he still remains a bottom of the league passer...we still need to see a lot better next year...

Edited December 20, 2019 by JaCrispy

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Nobody is denying that Allen needs to be better, by a lot in some respects.  However, given where he is in his career, where we are in the season, and quality of the personnel on the Bills offense, he's become a "good enough" NFL QB for this particular Bills team.   He has limitations, but his leadership and clutch play have made up for those limitations in most games.  

 

 

A team that's serious about making the playoffs can't afford a QB who's likely to repeatedly turn over the ball in most games, no matter how many passing TDs the QB throws.

 

 

Winston is essentially playing the same way as a fifth year player as he did as a second year player.  He's never improved his  most serious flaw: throwing to the wrong team.   There is absolutely no evidence that bringing in Bruce Arians -- an alleged QB whisperer -- has significantly improved Winston's play.  Franchising Winston is simply a waste of time and money.  The Bucs need to move on.

 

 

Agreed.  I've been very critical of Beane and McDermott for the lack of talent on offense (including coaching) -- and it's effect on Allen's development and success.  The Bills are trying to compete with offensive juggernauts with way too many players who were late draft picks or UDFAs.  Those guys in general tend to be significantly less talented than guys taken in the first.  Not many offensive playmakers come out of the ranks of Day 3 picks or undrafted players.

 

The Bills absolutely need to stop treating  the offense as a "red headed stepchild".  They need to re-sign 2 or 3 of the OLers that they signed in 2019 to 1 year contracts.   On the OL, continuity counts for a lot.  They need to add a big, sure-handed veteran receiver (WR or TE).  They need to sign or draft a better RB than Gore and Yeldon.  They need to use their first round pick -- and maybe their second rounder as well -- on the offense, hopefully finding a playmaker.

 

 

 

 

Have you watched the Bucs over the last 4 games or so? If you had, you might be rethinking what you say above about Winston. That offense is a juggernaut right now. He is better than the naysayers suggest, and he has shown a lot of improvement over the course of the season. Basically, the dominant narrative around him is stale and not all that reflective of current reality. (Also, re: your argument about throwing to the wrong team, Mike Martz always thought that was overrated and didn't care if Kurt Warner threw a reasonably large number of INTs (short-ish punts, in his book).) I'm certainly not advocating INTs, but it is undeniable that the Bucs' offense has turned a corner. They have averaged 35 ppg over the last four games, and they are simply better than their record. They lost to Seattle in OT in a game they shouldn't have lost, and they lost to the Giants because their kicker missed a chip shot at the end of the game. 

 

I agree with you about Allen. He is still very young. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Teddy KGB]

10 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Really? Just 3? Lamar Jackson has had 3 games this year where he has thrown for 5 td in each...time to expect more Bills fans...JA made great strides this year but he still remains a bottom of the league passer...we still need to see a lot better next year...

Singletary can run the other 2 in 

[teef]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

When a single team out of 32 can't do something that is achievable by every single team in the NFL at a minimum 1X/year with all manner of QB's & you are the only outlier not 1, not 2 but 3 years, you better have been deep into the playoffs, with a very good w/l % & be just smarter then anyone.

 

You need offense to win many an NFL game........  You & the Bills seem very myopic not to realize that.

you shouldn't be calling anyone mypoic...at all.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

When do we strip the bears, ravens, giants, and Steelers of their super bowl rings won by defense ? 

All had offenses that were better then the Bills.....  

 

BTW the 1985 Bears were #2 Offense in  the NFL, Baltimore #14, Giants too very muich in the top third their two wins......

 

Yes Defense may have won the SB, but offense was good in the regular season & playoffs.  

 

Boy you guys have no idea that offense is important too.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

All had offenses that were better then the Bills.....  

 

BTW the 1985 Bears were #2 Offense in  the NFL, Baltimore #14, Giants too very muich in the top third their two wins......

 

Yes Defense may have won the SB, but offense was good in the regular season & playoffs.  

 

Boy you guys have no idea that offense is important too.

Yes we do.  What we get is that offense does not correlate to 300 yard passing games, nor do wins.  As you have been shown time and time again.  You need help.

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

you shouldn't be calling anyone mypoic...at all.

I have freely admitted that the offense is my obsession with a "competent" offense, which we haven't seen since McD came in and gutted it.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes we do.  What we get is that offense does not correlate to 300 yard passing games, nor do wins.  As you have been shown time and time again.  You need help.

Again I'd say the same with you disciples of McD.....  This team has no idea how to run the offense imo.

 

You need a good offense plain & simple.

[JaCrispy]

46 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Singletary can run the other 2 in 

Deal ?

[DuckyBoys]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

To get to the Superbowl both teams leaned heavily on theior offenses.  If they were averaging Buffalo #'s and a offense in the lower third, I expect there would havbe been no SB.

 

 

BTW find me a Bad Offense (lower third of the league) that has made the SB in the last 20 years....

2015 Broncos and 2000 Ravens right off the top of my head  Both had abysmal offenses

[oldmanfan]

40 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I have freely admitted that the offense is my obsession with a "competent" offense, which we haven't seen since McD came in and gutted it.

 

 

Why do all of us have to deal with your obsession?

[Billsfan1972]

21 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

2015 Broncos and 2000 Ravens right off the top of my head  Both had abysmal offenses

Wrong on Both!!!!!!  2014 Denver was #2 & dropped in 2015 due to Manning being injured half the season.  Baltimore was 14th in 2000.....  

 

Congratulations you found two of the lowest ranked offenses.  

 

Find me a bottom 10 Offense that made the SB?  The majority of teams making the SB have a top 10 offense.

 

Proves nothing.... Huh????  

 

Quickly SB teams Offensive ranks...

2009 1 vs. 7

2010 10 vs. 12

2011 3 vs. 9

2012 10 vs. 11

2013 1 vs. 9

2014 1 vs. 10

2015 1 vs. 19

2016  1 vs. 3

2017 2 vs. 3

2018 2 vs. 4

 

So in total 11 of 20 were top 4.....  5 more top 10......

 

Yep good/great offenses every year.....

Edited December 20, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[billsfan1959]

15 hours ago, BigDingus said:

He plays almost identical to the way he did last season.

 

This is beyond an inability to be objective in your analyses of Allen - it is a flat out out refusal to be objective.

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Wrong on Both!!!!!!  2014 Denver was #2 & dropped in 2015 due to Manning being injured half the season.  Baltimore was 14th in 2000.....  

 

Congratulations you found two of the lowest ranked offenses.  

 

Find me a bottom 10 Offense that made the SB?  The majority of teams making the SB have a top 10 offense.

 

Proves nothing.... Huh????  

 

Quickly SB teams Offensive ranks...

2009 1 vs. 7

2010 10 vs. 12

2011 3 vs. 9

2012 10 vs. 11

2013 1 vs. 9

2014 1 vs. 10

2015 1 vs. 19

2016  1 vs. 3

2017 2 vs. 3

2018 2 vs. 4

 

Yep good/great offenses every year.....

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/9r7q6x/the_last_25_super_bowl_champions_and_their/

 

What it shows is some have good offenses and good defenses, some are bad offense and great D, and vice versa.  So you are cherry picking again. 

[DuckyBoys]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Wrong on Both!!!!!!  2014 Denver was #2 & dropped in 2015 due to Manning being injured half the season.  Baltimore was 14th in 2000.....  

 

Congratulations you found two of the lowest ranked offenses.  

 

Find me a bottom 10 Offense that made the SB?  The majority of teams making the SB have a top 10 offense.

 

Proves nothing.... Huh????  

 

Quickly SB teams Offensive ranks...

2009 1 vs. 7

2010 10 vs. 12

2011 3 vs. 9

2012 10 vs. 11

2013 1 vs. 9

2014 1 vs. 10

2015 1 vs. 19

2016  1 vs. 3

2017 2 vs. 3

2018 2 vs. 4

 

Yep good/great offenses every year.....

ravens 2000 offense scored 29 tds in 16 games  Bills have 32 in 14 games  Both of those teams had abysmal offenses  Dilfer was beyond terrible and Manning was a shell of himself  The 2019 Bills offense is a juggernaut compared to those two teams

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Boy you guys have no idea that offense is important too.

 

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/9r7q6x/the_last_25_super_bowl_champions_and_their/

 

What it shows is some have good offenses and good defenses, some are bad offense and great D, and vice versa.  So you are cherry picking again. 

How is the last 10 SB's "Cherry Picking".......  Pretty simple & straightforward.  2015 Broncos had an injured Manning & along with Baltimore were as stated outliers & still better then Buffalo.....

 

Here is my reference....  2000 Baltimore 22 passing, 5 rushing, 14 in points.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2000/index.htm

 

Denver 2015 14 passing, 15 rushing......  

 

Not the 2014 offense but perfectly capable.

 

Stick with the facts.....

Edited December 20, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

And there are different ways to win with offense, such as a thing called running the ball.  And there are different ways to win football games, such as with defense.  Defense wins championships, always  has, always will.

What this comes down to is this:  you have publicly stated you don't like the way the Bills are playing because to you it is not entertaining.  You want to be entertained by a lot of yards throwing the ball.  Apparently winning football games is not entertaining to you, given the 10-4 record.  You claim winning football with a 10-4 record is comical just because they don't happen to run an offense you like.  So you have choices to make.  You can either continue to rant and howl at the moon, and remind everyone here of the definition of insanity.  Or you can change your view of what is entertaining, embrace the fact that the Bills have a team that plays suffocating defense and an offense that places emphasis on running and a conservative passing game designed to not turn the ball over, and actually enjoy the run they are making this season.  Or if being entertained by a ton of passing yards is what gets you off, then change you allegiance and root for, say, Tampa Bay, where they throw for a ton of yards, an ton of picks, and are going home in a couple weeks.

 

I used to be a fan watching for the ooooohs and aaaaaahhs of those long balls.  Loved Darryl Lamonica.

I never played football, I just learned the positions and some of the plays talking to my Grandpa who was athletic but never played but street stuff.

 

My perspective changed in the late '80s- '90s living outside of Buffalo in the age of VCR.  My fam in B'lo used to record the televised games and send them to me.  They'd arrive about Weds and I'd watch 'em (it wasn't too hard to avoid knowing the outcome as local media never covered the Bills).  But having the game on tape made it possible to rewind and slowmo and start to pick apart what was going on, so I started learning more about the game.

 

I love a good defensive chess match now.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I say it because it is comical that EVERY NFL TEAM has done it every year at least once, but the Buffalo Bills.....

 

I believe this has been asked before, but can you kindly direct me to the source of your statistic that every NFL team except the Bills has thrown for 300 yds at least once every year?

Because I can not find this, and a quick scan indicates it is not quite correct.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Have you watched the Bucs over the last 4 games or so? If you had, you might be rethinking what you say above about Winston. That offense is a juggernaut right now. He is better than the naysayers suggest, and he has shown a lot of improvement over the course of the season. Basically, the dominant narrative around him is stale and not all that reflective of current reality. (Also, re: your argument about throwing to the wrong team, Mike Martz always thought that was overrated and didn't care if Kurt Warner threw a reasonably large number of INTs (short-ish punts, in his book).) I'm certainly not advocating INTs, but it is undeniable that the Bucs' offense has turned a corner. They have averaged 35 ppg over the last four games, and they are simply better than their record. They lost to Seattle in OT in a game they shouldn't have lost, and they lost to the Giants because their kicker missed a chip shot at the end of the game. 

 

I agree with you about Allen. He is still very young. 

 

Ah hahahahahahahahaha  ?Ahh hahahah ?

Sorry, Dave, but I live in St Louis and know people who knew Martz when he coached here, family friends of the Martz and players and coaches kids and such. 

That's just funny.

 

I mean, Martz may have SAID something like that in the media or something, but it's not reflective of what he said to the team or likely believed.  There are limited situations where it's probably true - if you're in the other team's territory but outside FG range and it's 4th down, an INT can be kind of punt like. That's like, a limited 15-20 yd range of field position and 1 out of 4 downs.  Warner's 2 INTs had a big effect on St Louis losing the 2001 SB to the Pats.  What Martz thought was probably more in line with his famous sideline rant about Incognito which went something like "what the ***** is wrong with that mother *****?" as he ripped his headseat off and threw it.

 

When Warner was a functional NFL QB, BTW, his overall TD to INT ratio was 1.7 or better.  [He threw a lot of picks, but he also threw a Ton of TDs].  Jameis Winston approached 1.5 TD/INT his first 2 years - hit it his 2nd as I recall - and it's not an accident that was the year the team had its best record with him at QB.  Not since - including this year, 1.25.  It's actually not the absolute number of picks that's probably important, it's the ratio - the QB needs to be generating something like 50% more points for the team than he puts at risk through INTs for the offense to be functional and the team to win.

 

[Billsfan1972]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I used to be a fan watching for the ooooohs and aaaaaahhs of those long balls.  Loved Darryl Lamonica.

I never played football, I just learned the positions and some of the plays talking to my Grandpa who was athletic but never played but street stuff.

 

My perspective changed in the late '80s- '90s living outside of Buffalo in the age of VCR.  My fam in B'lo used to record the televised games and send them to me.  They'd arrive about Weds and I'd watch 'em (it wasn't too hard to avoid knowing the outcome as local media never covered the Bills).  But having the game on tape made it possible to rewind and slowmo and start to pick apart what was going on, so I started learning more about the game.

 

I love a good defensive chess match now.

 

 

 

 

 

I believe this has been asked before, but can you kindly direct me to the source of your statistic that every NFL team except the Bills has thrown for 300 yds at least once every year?

Because I can not find this, and a quick scan indicates it is not quite correct.

Maybe 1-2 teams may not have done it in one league.  Will admit that Arizona may not have in 2018 (maybe the worst offense in all of football)......  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Maybe 1-2 teams may not have done it in one league.  Will admit that Arizona may not have in 2018 (maybe the worst offense in all of football)......  

 

OK.  What is the source of this statistic of yours, because I would like to go look it up for myself?  Since you say it so definitively and now acknowledge but one exception, you must have a source.  Thanks.