Improving the O right now.

[Nicabills321]

Apologies if already mentioned...if I recall correctly in an early season presser either McD or daboll stated their belief in execution coming from repetition.  I would like to see what would come of some of the suggestions the op mentioned.  I've been waiting all season for the secret weapon to be activated.  I don't expect any changes.  I did not like the route john brown ran on the last play of the ravens game, but it's my belief they called it because they felt really good about it and have had success in the past.  I do expect some wrinkles (obviously) but during the Pitts game I told my myself this looks like the last 6 weeks to my novice eyes. Same stuff, if we don't turn the ball over, good chance we put up points. Again, I would be surprised with any personnel changes excluding injury.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Nicabills321

[Boca BIlls]

22 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Have someone other than Daboll call the plays; a lot will get fixed with this alone.

No matter who the OC is it is always their fault... I love how you just want a revolving door which never will work in your mind.

[LeGOATski]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Sure, but what's that say about their confidence in Allen??

 

They really felt the need to run the ball with a 38 YO Frank Gore into a wall? 

I think they saw (not just in this game but previous ones) that he's a threat to give up a big sack. They also knew the Steelers have a great secondary. They also knew Hauschka is kicking well now.

 

Tying the game was a must.

[Pokebball]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Sure, but what's that say about their confidence in Allen??

 

They really felt the need to run the ball with a 38 YO Frank Gore into a wall? 

Confidence in Allen, the OL, the WR, the TEs, or perhaps even the Pitt defense?

[blacklabel]

Bench Ford and start who? Ryan Bates? Nothing against the guy, but if he was the better player, he'd be starting. 

 

Again I ask... what exactly are the expectations for these players? Especially rookies and younger players. It seems like if these guys aren't performing like All-Pros right away then people are calling for them to be benched or even cut. Right now, OL positions are some of the toughest to adjust to for young players. College offenses rarely ask their OL to put their hand in the dirt and they limit the blocking schemes. Just takes time for these guys to adjust. Has he struggled? Sure, but that's part of the learning experience. And these guys are still in the midst of a crazy whirlwind point in their lives where they've just left college, prepared for the draft, did the combine, met with countless teams, getting poked and prodded by doctors, grilled with questions, challenged mentally as well as physically, then they become a pro, need to attend all sorts seminars on what being in the NFL is all about, there are off-field obligations required by their team, OTAs, workouts, practices, training camp, film review, play installation, learn all their schemes, adjust to how your teammates play, adjust to your new surroundings, adjust to your new coaches, work on your technique, etc. etc. etc. There's just a whole lot of stuff for an NFL rookie to deal with. Now, I'm certain some fans look at this and think, "So? They're professionals, I expect excellence!" Yeah, well, expect it all you want, they aren't machines and no player is perfect and no player wins every single rep. 

 

Sometimes I'm reminded of a dude I used to work with in a place where we would turn on Sabres games in the winter. Anytime a goal was allowed he'd be yelling for the goalie to get pulled. Didn't matter if the goal was a defensive breakdown or even if their own player accidentally scored the goal, he would think the solution would be replacing the goalie.

 

I dunno, the grass isn't always greener is what I guess I'm trying to say. Obviously there's always room for improvement and the entire staff knows that. But at this point in the season, you got who you got. You can try to make some minor tweaks but you're not going to get anywhere if you just start going, "Eh, let's try this guy. Nope, he didn't work, how's about this guy?" I trust the coaches to start the right players and put them in positions to succeed. 

 

That said, I think they do need to find room for Yeldon. Nothing against Gore, he's a legend, we all know that, but it's clear that he's lost a step. I don't know if they hold allegiance to him out of respect or if they prefer him to be in the game based on his presence and the example he sets as a pro, but right now the production just isn't there. I wouldn't even care if they chose to dress all three backs and bench a player from a different position. They've shown that they like throwing to Singletary, which is great, the more he gets the ball the better, but Yeldon is known for catching the ball out of the backfield, plus I think at this point he probably has a bit more juice in his legs than Gore. 

 

Lastly, nothing against Duke but I figured his impact would be minimal given his difficulty in separating. The guy I'd really like to see get going is Foster. I'm not sure if he's grounded or in timeout or what but last season he showed out several times and you'd think he would've carried that into this season but he hasn't. As for off-season stuff, I would like to see them add a receiver with some size and a big catch radius. Seems like that would make sense when you have a QB who's ball placement is a little off sometimes.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I will say that Ford and Dawkins have had more than a few horrible games. I think Dawkins projects more to LG or maybe RT and Ford to RG. If we can hit on a LT in the draft we will have a ton of depth on the O-Line for once.

[123719bwiqrb]

23 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm expecting Gore to get the Jets game off and Yeldon to be active.

 

If anything, this is the game where Gore plays and gets plenty of carries to rack up the stats.

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

 

If anything, this is the game where Gore plays and gets plenty of carries to rack up the stats.

 

Gore doesn't need stats anymore.  He is #3 on the all time rushing yards list and will not get to #2.

Having him take a week off before the playoffs makes a lot of sense.

[Comebackkid]

23 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Ahhh Duke Williams. The slow WR that can’t separate that Bills fans fall in love with. After this year he will be added to all the other PS Gems we have had over the years. 

I don't care if he is slow or not. He can win jump balls,  catches the ball and can go to the ground with out dropping the ball.    

[egd]

On 12/17/2019 at 12:36 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

It's clinched as the 5th seed at worse.  Bills have beat both the Steelers and Titans.

 

WRONG! The Bills still could finish 6th, if Houston finished 10-6 and gets the WC.

[MAJBobby]

9 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

I don't care if he is slow or not. He can win jump balls,  catches the ball and can go to the ground with out dropping the ball.    

Really?  Then why hasn’t he been active?  He isn’t better than what is. And doesn’t play ST

[Comebackkid]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Really?  Then why hasn’t he been active?  He isn’t better than what is. And doesn’t play ST

Why did we run Gore outside?   Why did we have two runs and a option for Gore to pass the ball (all for negative yard) Not everything we on offense makes sense.   

How many tds has Mckenzie dropped in the endzone?  One game and Duke was 5 for 6 and a td.  Not saying he's a three down wide out but he's a lot better option in the red zone and some other situations than  others we have tried to use there. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

Why did we run Gore outside?   Why did we have two runs and a option for Gore to pass the ball (all for negative yard) Not everything we on offense makes sense.   

How many tds has Mckenzie dropped in the endzone?  One game and Duke was 5 for 6 and a td.  Not saying he's a three down wide out but he's a lot better option in the red zone and some other situations than  others we have tried to use there. 

good so he isn’t a three down WR. That means he is your WR5 or WR6. They NEED to play ST. He doesn’t. McKenzie, Foster, Roberts Do. 

[Comebackkid]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

good so he isn’t a three down WR. That means he is your WR5 or WR6. They NEED to play ST. He doesn’t. McKenzie, Foster, Roberts Do. 

Well that's great , but they still all suck at being a wide receiver

[ColoradoBills]

26 minutes ago, egd said:

 

WRONG! The Bills still could finish 6th, if Houston finished 10-6 and gets the WC.

 

I'm not going to argue with you.

If the Texans win one game (10-6) they win the division.

They have the tie breakers over the Titans.

[707BillsFan]

1 hour ago, ScotSHO said:

 

If anything, this is the game where Gore plays and gets plenty of carries to rack up the stats.

 

I'm not sure that's possible anymore. His last 23 carries, 31 yards. Of course many of those carries were at the goal line (where he isn't good) and running out the clock (stuffed at the line and falling down). I'd like to see more Yeldon myself, but Gore has earned his status. 

[Happy]

2 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

No matter who the OC is it is always their fault... I love how you just want a revolving door which never will work in your mind.

 

I'm not saying that Daboll should be fired, but rather someone else should call the plays.  I don't think play calling is Daboll's strong suit.  I do think he has drawn up some good plays and I don't want to blow up the offense, that would only set the team back.  

[ngbills]

39 minutes ago, egd said:

 

WRONG! The Bills still could finish 6th, if Houston finished 10-6 and gets the WC.

HOU only goes to wild card if they go 9-7. Bills have 10 wins. Not possible. 

[TigerJ]

I think there are times when using Gore is the right choice.  Do you know what the stat line was for Gore in the last game versus the Patriots?  16 carries, 109 yards, 6.4 yards per carry.  I think there are times when Buffalo has used Gore in ways they should not have.  You NEVER want to run Gore outside.  He just can't get to the edge fast enough to avoid containment.  You don't want to run him inside against elite defensive tackles.  That means some weeks you don't want to run him at all,  Keep him inactive and activate Yeldon instead for the pass receiving threat he can present a defense.  But, if you know your offensive line is playing pretty well, and you're facing an ordinary defensive line, Gore can be very useful as a short yardage back, an occasional chunk play up the middle and in the four minute offense late in a game when you're ahead.   

 

I'd like to see Duke Williams a little more, but I don't know that playing him is a sure solution for increasing offensive output.  Same thing with McKenzie for Beasley.

 

Cody Ford has been improving at right tackle, probably because he's play the last several games in their entirety, often against elite defensive ends.  I like Nsekhe, but going forward, I don't think Ford is the huge liability that some think.

 

Tyler Kroft has been targeted 9 times this season and has 5 receptions, a 55% catch rate.  Dawson Knox has been targeted 46 times and has 27 receptions.  That works out to a 58 % catch rate.  I don't mind getting Kroft some more touches, but Knox is going to get better as he gains experience, and he has the tools to be special.

[Billsfan1972]

BTW Duke seemed plenty fast enough on his TD catch & also made a great contested catch on a 30 yard throw.  Small sample size but did more on those two catches then Foster has done all season.

[Happy]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There's your winning answer. Gore should sit these next 2 out. Give Yeldon a few targets. Duke sitting on the sidelines over stiffs like Smith or Dimarco is comical. I won't do anything with Ford right now but he will be a guard next year. Keep McK active for threat of the end around. 

 

Dimarco will be active if only for special teams, which is supposedly where his talent is.

 

I thought Yeldon has fumbling potential, at least that is what I recall.  Gore doesn't fumble so he alternates with Singletary to give him a breather.

 

Some say Ford is a better guard, while others say he's improving at the tackle spot and will be fine after he gets more experience and grows into the position.  I'm not sure what to think as Ford shows some promise, but also gets beat plenty.  For that matter, Dawkins still gets beat more often than a solid starting LT should, but has shown improvement over the past year.  Our run blocking scheme seems good, but pass blocking scheme has much to be desired, so that could have something to do with it.

[billsfan_34]

On 12/17/2019 at 3:04 PM, peterpan said:

Obviously our O is suspect.  There's a lot to be addressed this off-season, but what can we do right now to get better????  Here are some of my ideas. 

 

Bench Gore.  He is just too slow.  This has been a long season for him, and he doesn't have the burst he had in week 1.  Give Yeldon a shot.  He is fresh.  Gore could potentially come back during the playoffs if he gets some burst back.  

 

Play Kroft more.  Knox has made some high light plays, but mainly I've seen him drop easy passes.  Idk if Kroft is better, but, Beane gave him a big money contract, so I have to think he will be  more reliable. We need some reliability right now. 

 

McKenzie over Beasley, sometimes.  Beasley also has had way too many drops.  McKenzie is quick too and may be more reliable at this moment.  Beasley is in a slump.  

 

Activate Duke!!! Duke has reliable hands and can compete for jump balls.  That is something this offense desperately needs!!!  Andre Roberts does not justify a roster spot for being a kick returner, and Lee Smith doesn't either, for his role. Activate Duke Williams!!! He would be drawing the dime CB while on the field.  Get him singled up 1v1 and throw him the ball!!!  Duke could have a big impact on hot reads too, when facing an all out blitz, ala Baltimore.  I personally think DW would have caught that 4th down pass v Baltimore, if he was in that position.  

 

Bench Ford.  Hopefully Nseke is healthy soon, and can start.  Ford has been the weak spot on the OL.   I think Nseke, being a veteran, will offer a lot in a post season push.  

 

Any other ideas???

 

 

 

 

They aren’t going to change a thing that would call ripples thru the locker room. Also, Beasley all day long is better than McKenzie- fast yes but cant break a tackle and doesn’t run routes nearly as good as Cole.

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Gore doesn't need stats anymore.  He is #3 on the all time rushing yards list and will not get to #2.

Having him take a week off before the playoffs makes a lot of sense.

Yeldon fumbles and runs to high- doubt they make a change now.

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Comebackkid said:

Well that's great , but they still all suck at being a wide receiver

Then Duke must Really suck if he can’t secure the No3 WR spot over them

42 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

BTW Duke seemed plenty fast enough on his TD catch & also made a great contested catch on a 30 yard throw.  Small sample size but did more on those two catches then Foster has done all season.

So how is he doing week to week at Practice. In Films. Has he shown any desire to play special teams. Until those get answered I will defer to a 10-4 coaching staff 

[JerseyBills]

Feed # 26

[appoo]

My impression is that offense is like this almost by intention.  A couple of thoughts to that:

 

• Allen doesn't have the deep accuracy, and the Bills don't have the WRs, to fully unleash a spread attack, incorporating the full field. 
• Allen, probably over the last 6-8 weeks, has only just proven to be a reliable intermediate/short range passer
• Allen still struggles pretty badly under pressure
• We have good RBs, but not great RBs. There's no gamebreakers in there, there's no one who's a threat to bust the top off a defense out of the backfield

So you take that, and I think Daboll and McDermott realize that with Allen's arm, you can open up the offense and maybe get some great things out of it, but it's possibly more likely you're going to end up with a higher frequencies of your two worst offensive outcomes. Turnovers and 3 and outs. 

 

So it looks like to me, McDermott has an offense designed to get first downs, and minimize the risk of turnovers and 3 and outs. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_TOTAL_AVERAGE_YDS

 

The Bills are 14th for Negative Run rate at 8.53%, and 16th for QB Hits, and 5th on 1st down rushes. 

 

I don't think the offense will improve per se, becasue I think McDermott wants to win by putting his defense in good positions, by limiting 3 and outs and turnovers. 

 

To him, this probably looks like a good offense for this football. 

 

 

[egd]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm not going to argue with you.

If the Texans win one game (10-6) they win the division.

They have the tie breakers over the Titans.

 

If...

 

I deal in reality, not hypotheticals.

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, egd said:

 

If...

 

I deal in reality, not hypotheticals.

 

I will be civil and give you this.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/12/15/21023814/afc-playoff-picture-buffalo-bills-clinch-five-seed-with-win

[Happy]

1 hour ago, appoo said:

I don't think the offense will improve per se, becasue I think McDermott wants to win by putting his defense in good positions, by limiting 3 and outs and turnovers. 

 

To him, this probably looks like a good offense for this football. 

 

No offense, but I hope you're wrong about this.  This would be terrifying if true; the offense needs to score more than what they currently do if they have any intention of making it to a SB.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

On 12/17/2019 at 3:19 PM, Lofton80 said:

Bench Ford? He has played great the last 3 weeks.

Some simply pick up the line.

[ganesh]

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, peterpan said:

Obviously our O is suspect.  There's a lot to be addressed this off-season, but what can we do right now to get better????  Here are some of my ideas. 

Agreed

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, peterpan said:

Bench Gore.  He is just too slow.  This has been a long season for him, and he doesn't have the burst he had in week 1.  Give Yeldon a shot.  He is fresh.  Gore could potentially come back during the playoffs if he gets some burst back.  

Gore is there because he doesn't cough up the ball. You can't have Singletary and Yeldon fumbling the ball together!

 

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, peterpan said:

 

Play Kroft more.  Knox has made some high light plays, but mainly I've seen him drop easy passes.  Idk if Kroft is better, but, Beane gave him a big money contract, so I have to think he will be  more reliable. We need some reliability right now. 

 

Agree.  Kroft is an accomplished NFL TE and that experience matters in Dec/January.  We can still play Knox and Kroft and bench Lee Smith,

 

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, peterpan said:

 

McKenzie over Beasley, sometimes.  Beasley also has had way too many drops.  McKenzie is quick too and may be more reliable at this moment.  Beasley is in a slump.  

If Mckenzie plays, Foster or Duke have to be inactive.

 

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, peterpan said:

 

Activate Duke!!! Duke has reliable hands and can compete for jump balls.  That is something this offense desperately needs!!!  Andre Roberts does not justify a roster spot for being a kick returner, and Lee Smith doesn't either, for his role. Activate Duke Williams!!! He would be drawing the dime CB while on the field.  Get him singled up 1v1 and throw him the ball!!!  Duke could have a big impact on hot reads too, when facing an all out blitz, ala Baltimore.  I personally think DW would have caught that 4th down pass v Baltimore, if he was in that position.  

This Duke fascination really fascinates me.  Do you think the coaches don't see these guys playing in practice to make that decision.  The only way I see Duke playing is by making DeMarco inactive.

 

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, peterpan said:

 

Bench Ford.  Hopefully Nseke is healthy soon, and can start.  Ford has been the weak spot on the OL.   I think Nseke, being a veteran, will offer a lot in a post season push.  

That is Not happening.  We don't have another Tackle on the roster.

 

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, peterpan said:

Any other ideas???

Practice the deep passes more with  Brown, Singletary and Foster

 

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, peterpan said:

 

 

 

 

[vincec]

If there was a quick fix that could improve the offense I think the coaching staff would have done it by now. There are lots of areas where the offense can improve but it's going to take at least another offseason to work on them, IMO. In the interim, I think the best thing is to just try and improve the execution each week and slowly get a better.

[frogger]

I don’t disagree.  I can’t state this more, the NFL must expand the game day roster, you have 53, why not keep all 53 active?  Who is it helping with 46? Every team has the same salary cap.

 

if I’m the coaching staff, especially the ST staff, this weekend it’s incredibly important to have a solid game plan.  They will try to block punts, they will have good KO coverage, taking the ball out of the end zone has not done much for us.  
this game will be won by field position and the fewest mistake.  Taking the ball out of the end zone and only getting to the 18 makes a difference.

side note:

i think the reason we saw an increase in Roberts offensive plays recently is because on 4th and short around mid field, we will likely see a punt by Josh Allen, with Roberts and Foster covering.  If Morse is even an average long snapper this will work.

i wish we had a punter with an okay arm.  It would keep their punt coverage team honest.