Buh-bye Arena League

[djp14150]

2 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

The Arena League lasted for a long time, it's not like it folded after one season.

 

A few of those teams did have real fan followings.

 

 

This was a skrleton if its former self.

 

many teams left and joined other competing leagues doing the same thing.

 

why this wasn’t financial successful was likrly it’s own undoing.

 

if your player budget is something around $40K split between the two teams.  You get 4000 fans to come out for around $10 a game. you can break even.

[PetermansRedemption]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It won’t be free. That’s my point. The NCAA has already changed the rules on name, image and likeness. The NFL can’t spend like these universities for a high school kid. If you are Chase Young coming out of high school, in a free market, you’ll make WAY more at OSU than in the minors. The boosters will be giving you $5M deals to advertise cars. The NFL just isn’t going to throw equivalent money at guys because the minor league can never generate the revenue of the NCAA. It’s a broken plan. That’s why every league has failed (and that’s before the NCAA allowed guys to earn). It has no chance

Ohhh I get what your putting down now. Completely agree, excellent point. Would finally force the NCAA to pay, but obviously the NFL doesn’t much care enough to take the moral high ground. 

38 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Really the USFL failed thanks to one certain stabile genius owner who wanted to force the NFLs hand. Half the USFL teams drew good crowds and ratings on ABC and ESPN were decent. Had they stayed the course they might still be around today, maybe eventually partnering with the NFL as a feeder system. 

 

Frankly I have doubts the NFL will be around in 20 years. Young people aren't playing the sport and fewer are becoming fans. That combined with concern over CTE makes the chances for a rival league slim to none.

Dead on about the USFL. That league likely would have succeeded if Trump didn’t force them to move to fall, blow the budget, and completely unravel the league. 

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

They did that in Europe and it allowed development. It was probably the best of all the spin off leagues we have seen.

I remember NFL Europe, good times. With how much the NFL wants to develop the European market I am surprised there hasn’t even been rumors of a possible return. 

[Cripple Creek]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

The NFL needs to step in and make some form of supplement league.  Between the XFL, CFL, and other startups, there’s clearly a demand for it, but they can’t compete.   
 

With the amount of college players, who’ve ever else out there, they should be some form of league that can run in the spring, where the best players can transition to teams for training camp. 
 

If I knew the Bills had a minor league type team that they share with other teams, I would watch that 

It would cost them money. Why would they want that?

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

It would cost them money. Why would they want that?

 

Money and liability. The latter is likely a big reason why the NFL won't get involved with a minor league.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Money and liability. The latter is likely a big reason why the NFL won't get involved with a minor league.

Interesting point and a great one!! 

[Perry Turtle]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

The NFL needs to step in and make some form of supplement league.  Between the XFL, CFL, and other startups, there’s clearly a demand for it, but they can’t compete.   
 

With the amount of college players, who’ve ever else out there, they should be some form of league that can run in the spring, where the best players can transition to teams for training camp. 
 

If I knew the Bills had a minor league type team that they share with other teams, I would watch that 

The investment dollars to do this would be astronomical.  The schools in the top 5 conferences maintain NFL-level facilities and pay their coaches millions of dollars.  The NCAA has massive TV contracts and booster support that provide revenue that a NFL D-league could never match.

 

And in the end, the NFL doesn't even need a minor league.  Unlike the NHL and MLB, the NFL draft age is 20 years old, not 18.  So 18 and 19 year old football players develop in extremely well-funded, first-rate football factories.

 

The XFL will crash and burn, just like the other attempts to start a new league every other year.  Just another delusional rich guy burning money on an ego trip.  Between the NFL and NCAA, the market is closed to a new league, especially one that is built on spare parts from the other leagues.

 

  

 

 

[Stallions]

4 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said:

The investment dollars to do this would be astronomical.  The schools in the top 5 conferences maintain NFL-level facilities and pay their coaches millions of dollars.  The NCAA has massive TV contracts and booster support that provide revenue that a NFL D-league could never match.

 

And in the end, the NFL doesn't even need a minor league.  Unlike the NHL and MLB, the NFL draft age is 20 years old, not 18.  So 18 and 19 year old football players develop in extremely well-funded, first-rate football factories.

 

The XFL will crash and burn, just like the other attempts to start a new league every other year.  Just another delusional rich guy burning money on an ego trip.  Between the NFL and NCAA, the market is closed to a new league, especially one that is built on spare parts from the other leagues.

 

  

 

 

Are we talking about The Arena League with games played  indoor on hockey ice covered with a carpet???  We had the Buffalo Destroyers who were awful.  Ray Bentley coached the team for a few seasons.  The owner moved the team to Columbus OH.  How could anyone believe this would relate to NFL football?  Nobody from the Arena League was a potential NFL player.  Lou Saban coached a team in Milwaukee years ago.  It was a throw the ball in the air and run & catch it. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

The NFL needs to step in and make some form of supplement league.  Between the XFL, CFL, and other startups, there’s clearly a demand for it, but they can’t compete.   
 

With the amount of college players, who’ve ever else out there, they should be some form of league that can run in the spring, where the best players can transition to teams for training camp. 
 

If I knew the Bills had a minor league type team that they share with other teams, I would watch that 

 

It's truly amazing to see that anyone would still believe, despite all evidence to the contrary and despite the history of the NFL and the NCAA and despite the history of the complete and repeated failure of every other US pro football organization.....that the NFL would want to or feel compelled to pay for some bush league product that might see a handful of guy move upon to the NFL from.

 

The 32 franchises have their pick of the "best" new players every Spring--plus they can trade players and pick up cut players.   Football fans win this country have zero interest in these other pro leagues.  They all failed for lack of revenue (i.e., no significant fan interest).  

 

Let it go. 

[PetermansRedemption]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's truly amazing to see that anyone would still believe, despite all evidence to the contrary and despite the history of the NFL and the NCAA and despite the history of the complete and repeated failure of every other US pro football organization.....that the NFL would want to or feel compelled to pay for some bush league product that might see a handful of guy move upon to the NFL from.

 

The 32 franchises have their pick of the "best" new players every Spring--plus they can trade players and pick up cut players.   Football fans win this country have zero interest in these other pro leagues.  They all failed for lack of revenue (i.e., no significant fan interest).  

 

Let it go. 

At one point, it could have. The USFL was the only league that ever had a chance. Trump killed that league though. That was the one shot at the beast. The NFL is far too big to ever have a minor league or anything close to it now. 

[PatsFanNH]

4 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

I posted earlier this year (in a "bold ideas" thread, or something like that...) that there should be a minor-league NFL (NMLF?, perhaps), that would consist of 32 minor-league teams that would function as farm teams for each NFL team. They would be subsidized by each NFL team, and the rules governing how other teams could sign players off of them would be similar to the current rules for the practice squad. NMLF teams would have to reside in cities that did not have current NFL teams. And, it would be a good method for testing new rule changes, and gauging the unintended consequences. 

 

Go Rochester Rockheads!

Be a great way to find decent replacements when the injury bug hits a team too.. so maybe just maybe teams don’t fall of the map from 3 or 4 key injuries.

[Just Joshin']

My issue with arena football is that it is not really football.  It is similar but not really the same product.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said:

At one point, it could have. The USFL was the only league that ever had a chance. Trump killed that league though. That was the one shot at the beast. The NFL is far too big to ever have a minor league or anything close to it now. 

Yeah Trump was foolish to try to move from Spring to Fall, but that league  and it’s teams were already hemorrhaging cash well before that.  It was over, effectively, before Trump made that move. 
 

No one was tuning in anymore as the novelty wore off.  

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Stallions said:

Are we talking about The Arena League with games played  indoor on hockey ice covered with a carpet???  We had the Buffalo Destroyers who were awful.  Ray Bentley coached the team for a few seasons.  The owner moved the team to Columbus OH.  How could anyone believe this would relate to NFL football?  Nobody from the Arena League was a potential NFL player.  Lou Saban coached a team in Milwaukee years ago.  It was a throw the ball in the air and run & catch it. 

 

Well actually a number of NFL players came out of the Arena League. Kurt Warner is probably the best known. I think Ty Nsekhe did too, and Fred Jackson came out of a minor arena league. (CIFL)

[The Dean]

7 hours ago, r00tabaga said:

Had no idea...... honestly thought it was already done

 

 

Me neither. Just like I recently discovered Maury Povich and Jerry Springer are still on TV. I couldn't believe it. 

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Well actually a number of NFL players came out of the Arena League. Kurt Warner is probably the best known. I think Ty Nsekhe did too, and Fred Jackson came out of a minor arena league. (CIFL)

 

Touchdown Eddie Brown (Albany Firebirds) was the most prolific WR in Arena League history.   His son, Antonio, just happens to be the most prolific douchebag in NFL history.

[Just Jack]

3 hours ago, Stallions said:

Are we talking about The Arena League with games played  indoor on hockey ice covered with a carpet???  We had the Buffalo Destroyers who were awful.  Ray Bentley coached the team for a few seasons.  The owner moved the team to Columbus OH.  How could anyone believe this would relate to NFL football?  Nobody from the Arena League was a potential NFL player.  Lou Saban coached a team in Milwaukee years ago.  It was a throw the ball in the air and run & catch it. 

 

Syracuse had a team, not in the AFL, but some lower competitor of theirs. Lasted less than a season, went through three owners, but their wiki says two. ..

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_Soldiers

 

[Poleshifter]

I'm surprised it has lasted this long. I like football variations, like the CFL, but I have not watched the Arena League in 10 years.

 

[BobbyC81]

5 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

At one point, it could have. The USFL was the only league that ever had a chance. Trump killed that league though. That was the one shot at the beast. The NFL is far too big to ever have a minor league or anything close to it now. 

Yes, he was part of the reason.  Another was that although the USFL won a lawsuit against the NFL they were only rewarded $1

[purple haze]

9 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I mean, I think most people know college is a sham for true NFL talent anyways. They get a free college education that they don’t want or need. Thinking people know that if people like Antonio Brown can go through college that it’s not a true education. 

I’m not from the south, so I can’t speak from experience. But I can’t imagine anyone with any intelligence would choose to play for free in college over absolutely any salary at all from a sanctioned NFL system. Then again, these aren’t intelligent people we are talking about in most cases. 

Why do you think the NFL talent at a major college football program is playing for "free"?  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

What are substantial legacy liabilities ?

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

11 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it’s the former. There is only so much football that you can love. I use myself as the litmus test and while it seems like such a small sample size it makes sense. 
 

I love football. I probably dedicate 20 hours a week to watching or talking football. That’s a lot!! I’ve only missed 2 Bills games in my life that I can remember. I watch every OSU game and probably another 3 games a weekend (outside of Bills and Bucks). I’ve attended zero arena league games in my life. Twice, I’ve lived in cities with teams. I couldn’t name a single guy. If they can’t attract someone like me how in the hell are they going to be able to sustain??? 
 

At the core I think that’s the issue. They can’t establish a foundation. Even if they had 10,000 diehards in each market these leagues could probably make it. The problem is they just can’t get the floor high enough because of the other football out there.

 

Bucs?

 

Thought you would be a saints fan? Also How come you watch Ohio st over LSU?

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Doesn't matter what McMahon allows.  The XFL is a deadman walking.

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.  I'm going to enjoy the ***** out of watching him fail...again.

 

if XFL implemented my NO-KICKING GAME , then they would succeed as it would show how much more exciting football could be if there were no punts or field goals.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

My issue with arena football is that it is not really football.  It is similar but not really the same product.

Exactly.  Not fair to consider this "minor league football."

 

I think real football, on a minor league level, would work just fine.

 

I honestly thought this thing had died off years ago, though.  I have not stumbled across it on TV in many years.

 

Maybe that was the problem.  LOL

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Touchdown Eddie Brown (Albany Firebirds) was the most prolific WR in Arena League history.   His son, Antonio, just happens to be the most prolific douchebag in NFL history.

 

Also one of the most prolific receivers when he was on the field in fairness.

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

Arena Football is so stupid, offenses are unstoppable so the winning team is the one that succeds to run more drives.

[Chicken Boo]

15 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

And he still will have accomplished so much more than you ever will.

 

He's still a pos!

[JMF2006]

17 hours ago, thronethinker said:

You think McMahon is going to allow kneeling?

 

If it gets ratings and brings in $$ …...Yes

[Kirby Jackson]

17 hours ago, thronethinker said:

You think McMahon is going to allow kneeling?

 

1 minute ago, JMF2006 said:

 

If it gets ratings and brings in $$ …...Yes

Interesting thought JMF!! McMahon may actually encourage it. He certainly wants people talking about it.

[PromoTheRobot]

53 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Interesting thought JMF!! McMahon may actually encourage it. He certainly wants people talking about it.

 

Ha, absolutely. Add a little WWE flair with heroes and villains.

[PetermansRedemption]

10 hours ago, purple haze said:

Why do you think the NFL talent at a major college football program is playing for "free"?  

Because, they are? Unless you count a useless (for them) college education as payment. Sure they get an education, room and board and food. That is essentially free. They get what they need to survive and continue to play football for their program. Heck, until recently they weren’t even allowed to do sponsorships of their own likeness. I guess you could count possible illegal contributions from school sponsors, but I wouldn’t count that. 

[Boatdrinks]

10 hours ago, purple haze said:

Why do you think the NFL talent at a major college football program is playing for "free"?  

It pretty much is. A total pilfering of labor being sanctioned by the universities. Complete and utter theft. Read ( conservative columnist) George Will’s recent column on the sham of “ student athletes” while Colleges and administrators / coaches reap their millions. . I’don’t  have a link, but it should be easily searched for and found. Great read and I completely agree with him. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Boatdrinks

[Albany,n.y.]

The Albany Empire will go down as the final Arenaball champion. 

 

I used to go to the Albany Firebirds games years ago during the Bills AFC dominance in the 1990s and joke that the last game I had been at was the Super Bowl & how much a drop-off it was going from the Super Bowl to an Arena game a few months apart.  

 

I never went to any Empire games in the 2 years they were here.  

[PromoTheRobot]

15 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

It pretty much is. A total pilfering of labor being sanctioned by the universities. Complete and utter theft. Read ( conservative columnist) George Will’s recent column on the sham of “ student athletes” while Colleges and administrators / coaches reap their millions. . I’don’t  have a link, but it should be easily searched for and found. Great read and I completely agree with him. 

 

And how many student athletes have they're scholarships pulled when they get injured?

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

And how many student athletes have they're scholarships pulled when they get injured?

Couldn’t tell you. What’s the point, though?

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Couldn’t tell you. What’s the point, though?

 

That the whole thing about the pure and sacred status of student athletes is bull.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That the whole thing about the pure and sacred status of student athletes is bull.

Okay, got it. Wasn’t sure if you were in agreement or not. 

[purple haze]

5 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Because, they are? Unless you count a useless (for them) college education as payment. Sure they get an education, room and board and food. That is essentially free. They get what they need to survive and continue to play football for their program. Heck, until recently they weren’t even allowed to do sponsorships of their own likeness. I guess you could count possible illegal contributions from school sponsors, but I wouldn’t count that. 

No, I know they're being taken advantage of.  I don't count the education at all.  Playing ball in college is a job and these kids work a lot.  I think the top top players get taken care of in ways under the table.  That's what I meant.