Buffalo Bills Might Be Most Flawed 6-2 Team You’ve Ever Seen

[Luka]

3 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Credibility? He was arguing with a guy who is trying to suggest the only thing separating Allen & Jackson are their supporting casts lol

 

You must be Wayne's alt account but I'll play along. My original point, back a couple pages, is just because Jackson is good and we didn't draft him, does not mean Allen is bad.  And PS, I have watched Jackson, watched breakdowns of him etc. Allen can pass from the pocket. Allen can throw a 35 yard dart on the run. Sorry but I'm more concerned with arm talent and pocket passing when it comes to the NFL game. Gotta be able to operate from the pocket, it's been Daboll's and McDermott's focus. While I may not agree with the way the offense is called or designed, their intention is to get Allen to be productive from the pocket. The Ravens approach is completely different with Jackson.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Credibility? He was arguing with a guy who is trying to suggest the only thing separating Allen & Jackson are their supporting casts lol

I really don’t care what he was arguing about or with whom because regardless who he is arguing with, his crusading points are always the same. 

 

Comparisons to Lamar Jackson or any other young QB are irrelevant to Allen’s experience in Buffalo. They are nothing more than manifestations of fear by those fans who are simply afraid (and outraged!) at the mere idea that Allen may not pan out. 
 

So let’s just cut to the chase. How’s this: Allen is the worst QB in the league and it’s not even close. See how easy that was? The anti Allen crusaders should just let it go at that. There’s nothing more they can say that can exceed that analysis. Constant regurgitation of irrelevant statistical comparisons simply prolongs their pain! 

[TwistofFate]

2 hours ago, Luka said:

Since we're playing the "use manipulated stats to prop our strawman" game, here's a bunch in Allen's favor that give some context to his performance this year compared to Jackson's.

 

Drops: Allen 8th, Jackson 31st

Drop %: Allen 5th, Jackson 29th

Bad Throw %: Allen 13th, Jackson 9th

Hurried: Allen 14th, Jackson 27th

Hits: Allen 8th, Jackson 41st

 

Not to mention Josh's 4th quarter rating (best) and the fact that since the beating at New England his passer rating (98.4) is 12th in the league while Lamar's rating over the same period is 77.5 (27th).

 

But I digress, everyone stick to their narratives lol

Cool...now look at where those numbers came from.

 

Buffalo has beaten opponents with a combined record of 9 wins, 42 losses.  (9-42)  They needed comeback victories in the majority of the wins against those weak opponents.

 

Baltimore has beaten opponents with a combined record of 23 wins, 27 losses. (23-27)  They did not need comeback wins in any of those games and averaged 33 points a game against far superior opponents.  They smashed the Patriots on Sunday night, and smashed the Seahawk's the week before.  Both teams are arguably the best team in each conference.

 

So, both teams, having Qb's with the similar experience faced much different teams in terms of quality.  One has orchestrated a scoring averaging of 33 points per win, the other against subpar challengers averaging 22.5. (Jackson) 

 

One has more yards passing, more yards per pass, more td's, less int's, and higher Qbr facing more challenging opponents. (Jackson)  

 

One has over 600+ yards rushing to the other's 200+ yards. (Jackson) 

 

One of them has more rushing Td's, more +20 runs, and less fumbles. (Jackson)

 

Has Josh looked better than last year?  In some ways, yes, in other ways...no.

 

Has he looked anywhere near as dominant as Jackson half way through the season?  Absolutely not, and if you believe that, you need to watch more football.

[Luka]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

Cool...now look at where those numbers came from.

 

Buffalo has beaten opponents with a combined record of 9 wins, 42 losses.  (9-42)  They needed comeback victories in the majority of the wins against those weak opponents.

 

Baltimore has beaten opponents with a combined record of 23 wins, 27 losses. (23-27)  They did not need comeback wins in any of those games and averaged 33 points a game against far superior opponents.  They smashed the Patriots on Sunday night, and smashed the Seahawk's the week before.  Both teams are arguably the best team in each conference.

 

So, both teams, having Qb's with the similar experience faced much different teams in terms of quality.  One has orchestrated a scoring averaging of 33 points per win, the other against subpar challengers averaging 22.5. (Jackson) 

 

One has more yards passing, more yards per pass, more td's, less int's, and higher Qbr facing more challenging opponents. (Jackson)  

 

One has over 600+ yards rushing to the other's 200+ yards. (Jackson) 

 

One of them has more rushing Td's, more +20 runs, and less fumbles. (Jackson)

 

Has Josh looked better than last year?  In some ways, yes, in other ways...no.

 

Has he looked anywhere near as dominant as Jackson half way through the season?  Absolutely not, and if you believe that, you need to watch more football.

 

And my post went directly over your head. I think Josh threw it into the press box. That's how high it went over your head.

 

YOU CAN NIT PICK STATS ALL YOU WANT TO MAKE ANYONE LOOK GOOD OR BAD. JACKSON PLAYING WELL FOR THE RAVENS DOES NOT MEAN ALLEN IS BAD.

 

You know what, I'm done with you guys. The public education system has clearly failed in this country. If you want to take two different players, from different teams, playing different offenses, against different opponenents and say "dUh ThEsE tHiNgS aRe ExAcTlY tHe SaMe" then be my guest. Watch your "favorite" team and hate the QB. Seems logical.

 

 

[BananaB]

Baltimore is using Lamar like a college QB. It’s about winning now and it’s working for them.  Everything they have done is to take as much advantage of Lamars strengths now. Anyone who thinks he can keep this up over numerous years is crazy.....Sit back and watch. 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by BananaB

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Hold the presses!!

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtisrush/2019/11/04/at-buffalo-bills-halfway-mark-some-evidence-that-josh-allen-is-getting-better/

At Buffalo Bills’ Halfway Mark, Some Evidence That Josh Allen Is Getting Better

Curtis RushContributor

SportsMoney

 

This may come as a surprise, but his supporters have some strength behind their arguments that Josh Allen isn’t as bad as some critics make out.

The Bills, of course, are 6-2 and off to their best start since the 1993 Super Bowl finalist team. That’s the good part.

 

And there is more good news.

 

 

In the last four games, Allen has thrown seven TD passes while tossing only one interception. That’s a big improvement, and one that he wanted to focus on as the season progressed. But he still wasn’t good at holding onto the ball. He fumbled the ball five more times in the past four games. You 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...well Terry Bradshaw said, "Buffalo is a lousy 6-2 team" so it MUST be gospel, right?....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...well Terry Bradshaw said, "Buffalo is a lousy 6-2 team" so it MUST be gospel, right?....

 

I think what he said was "Buffalo is a Bad Football Team"  "They're 6-2"  "They're a Bad Team"

[Scott7975]

22 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

?

 

The ravens are on a 3 game win streak and the last two opponents they've face and beaten were the Undefeated NE pats and Seahawks. 

 

Those two teams were dominated by the Ravens.   Those two teams have more combined wins then every team we've beaten this year. 

 

We are going to lose to them, and lose to them pretty badly IMO. 

 

Who are the Seahawks?  They struggled against Cinci, Pitts, Browns,  Atlanta, and got taken to overtime by Tampa Bay.  Maybe they are the most flawed 7-2 team?

Edited November 6, 2019 by Scott7975

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think what he said was "Buffalo is a Bad Football Team"  "They're 6-2"  "They're a Bad Team"

 

...not that pundit quips matter to me, but isn't inference that Buffalo is " a lousy 6-2 football team"?.....kinda doubt you'll have a sleepless night over Terry's "assessments(COUGH)".......know that Chandler 81 won't......here's his quote about my Bradshaw thread....

 

"(we decided unanimously that Bradshaw took too many snot-knockers to the Mellon and he’s a Hick.)? "

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Cool...now look at where those numbers came from.

 

Buffalo has beaten opponents with a combined record of 9 wins, 42 losses.  (9-42)  They needed comeback victories in the majority of the wins against those weak opponents.

 

Baltimore has beaten opponents with a combined record of 23 wins, 27 losses. (23-27)  They did not need comeback wins in any of those games and averaged 33 points a game against far superior opponents.  They smashed the Patriots on Sunday night, and smashed the Seahawk's the week before.  Both teams are arguably the best team in each conference.

 

So, both teams, having Qb's with the similar experience faced much different teams in terms of quality.  One has orchestrated a scoring averaging of 33 points per win, the other against subpar challengers averaging 22.5. (Jackson) 

 

One has more yards passing, more yards per pass, more td's, less int's, and higher Qbr facing more challenging opponents. (Jackson)  

 

One has over 600+ yards rushing to the other's 200+ yards. (Jackson) 

 

One of them has more rushing Td's, more +20 runs, and less fumbles. (Jackson)

 

Has Josh looked better than last year?  In some ways, yes, in other ways...no.

 

Has he looked anywhere near as dominant as Jackson half way through the season?  Absolutely not, and if you believe that, you need to watch more football.

 

No comeback wins? 

Baltimore tied it up against Pittsburg by kicking a field goal with 14 seconds left. Then won in OT on a day that Jackson passed for 161 yards 1TD and 3 INTS

Baltimore got their asses handed to them by the Browns on a day where Jackson  threw 2 INTs

Against Seattle Jackson was 9/20 for 143 yards.  The defense had 2 TDs that game.  Are you going to sit there and act like Jackson was the reason they won?

 

As far as passing goes... Jackson only has a ~20 ypg avg more than Allen. That's like 1-2 passes.  Lets not act like Jackson is a world beater while Josh is terrible.  Lets also not act like Baltimore has played all good teams.  Mia, Arizona, Cinci, Pitts, Browns. Jackson is doing well this season but so is Allen.  Jackson may have a couple games where he had bigger highs, but passing wise he really isn't doing all that much better than Allen is.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Scott7975

[Wayne Arnold]

4 hours ago, Luka said:

 

You must be Wayne's alt account but I'll play along. My original point, back a couple pages, is just because Jackson is good and we didn't draft him, does not mean Allen is bad.  And PS, I have watched Jackson, watched breakdowns of him etc. Allen can pass from the pocket. Allen can throw a 35 yard dart on the run. Sorry but I'm more concerned with arm talent and pocket passing when it comes to the NFL game. Gotta be able to operate from the pocket, it's been Daboll's and McDermott's focus. While I may not agree with the way the offense is called or designed, their intention is to get Allen to be productive from the pocket. The Ravens approach is completely different with Jackson.

 

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

I really don’t care what he was arguing about or with whom because regardless who he is arguing with, his crusading points are always the same. 

 

Comparisons to Lamar Jackson or any other young QB are irrelevant to Allen’s experience in Buffalo. They are nothing more than manifestations of fear by those fans who are simply afraid (and outraged!) at the mere idea that Allen may not pan out. 
 

So let’s just cut to the chase. How’s this: Allen is the worst QB in the league and it’s not even close. See how easy that was? The anti Allen crusaders should just let it go at that. There’s nothing more they can say that can exceed that analysis. Constant regurgitation of irrelevant statistical comparisons simply prolongs their pain! 

 

Who here said Allen is bad? Or even insinuated that Allen is the worst QB in the league?

 

Some of you are so sensitive and emotional about Allen that you're incapable of simple reading comprehension.

[ColoradoBills]

39 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Hold the presses!!

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtisrush/2019/11/04/at-buffalo-bills-halfway-mark-some-evidence-that-josh-allen-is-getting-better/

At Buffalo Bills’ Halfway Mark, Some Evidence That Josh Allen Is Getting Better

Curtis RushContributor

SportsMoney

 

This may come as a surprise, but his supporters have some strength behind their arguments that Josh Allen isn’t as bad as some critics make out.

The Bills, of course, are 6-2 and off to their best start since the 1993 Super Bowl finalist team. That’s the good part.

 

And there is more good news.

 

 

In the last four games, Allen has thrown seven TD passes while tossing only one interception. That’s a big improvement, and one that he wanted to focus on as the season progressed. But he still wasn’t good at holding onto the ball. He fumbled the ball five more times in the past four games. You 

 

LOL.  Some of us have been saying exactly this.  Can't see the forest for the trees.

Next things for Josh to work on hard is ball security when running and get some long balls caught.

Things are moving ahead.

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Baltimore is using Lamar like a college QB. It’s about winning now and it’s working for them.  Everything they have done is to take as much advantage of Lamars strengths now. Anyone who thinks he can keep this up over numerous years is crazy.....Sit back and watch. 

 

 

 

I have not watched  much of Jackson but I have been told he does not take hits often, so he might be able to keep it up longer then any other running QB, that being said his play will one day drop off a cliff when he sprains an ankle.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 

Who here said Allen is bad? Or even insinuated that Allen is the worst QB in the league?

 

Some of you are so sensitive and emotional about Allen that you're incapable of simple reading comprehension.

Here you go:

 

Nextmanup says:

If only it was as simple as "opening up the offense" and telling Josh to go throw 300 yards!  

 

If it was in him to do that or be that type of passer, he would regularly do it now, and have been doing it for a while now.

 

He is a slight upgrade over Tyrod, with a slightly different skill set, but about the same output.

 

I do NOT want him to be the Bills QB for the next dozen years! 

 

I want a good QB for a change! 

 

Keep looking!  He's not it! 

Edited November 6, 2019 by oldmanfan

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 

Who here said Allen is bad? Or even insinuated that Allen is the worst QB in the league?

 

Some of you are so sensitive and emotional about Allen that you're incapable of simple reading comprehension.

You’re missing the point. I’m not suggesting you said that about Allen. I’m suggesting that you should. Instead of being so insecure and pissed off that Allen may not pan out, try just assuming the absolute worst and then working up from that position. It’s safer for you. And the rest of us are spared your incessant bellyaching. It’s a win win for everybody. 

[Wayne Arnold]

11 minutes ago, K-9 said:

You’re missing the point. I’m not suggesting you said that about Allen. I’m suggesting that you should. Instead of being so insecure and pissed off that Allen may not pan out, try just assuming the absolute worst and then working up from that position. It’s safer for you. And the rest of us are spared your incessant bellyaching. It’s a win win for everybody. 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 

Who here said Allen is bad? Or even insinuated that Allen is the worst QB in the league?

 

Some of you are so sensitive and emotional about Allen that you're incapable of simple reading comprehension.

 

Read the rest of that guy's posts.

 

 

[TwistofFate]

5 hours ago, Luka said:

 

And my post went directly over your head. I think Josh threw it into the press box. That's how high it went over your head.

 

YOU CAN NIT PICK STATS ALL YOU WANT TO MAKE ANYONE LOOK GOOD OR BAD. JACKSON PLAYING WELL FOR THE RAVENS DOES NOT MEAN ALLEN IS BAD.

 

You know what, I'm done with you guys. The public education system has clearly failed in this country. If you want to take two different players, from different teams, playing different offenses, against different opponenents and say "dUh ThEsE tHiNgS aRe ExAcTlY tHe SaMe" then be my guest. Watch your "favorite" team and hate the QB. Seems logical.

 

 

I didn't go to public school, but agree, it has failed this country. 

 

Your post isn't over my head.  Statistically Allen IS one of the worst starting Qbs in the league. 

 

Did he make a jump this season?   In completion percentage, yes.   But they are hiding him on offense because he's making too many bad plays.  The Ravens aren't hiding Jackson, he's throwing for it on 4th down against the Pats defense.  They are utilizing his abilities to the fullest and he's excelling. 

 

They tried to let Allen sling the rock early on.   What did it lead to?   Disasters. Turnovers galore.  So now they have gone conservative because they can't trust him to do it. 

 

Lastly, I support the brand, not individual players.   They come and they go, Buffalo remains.   I don't hate Allen or wish him to do bad.   I simply have lost faith in him. 

[Scott7975]

32 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

I didn't go to public school, but agree, it has failed this country. 

 

Your post isn't over my head.  Statistically Allen IS one of the worst starting Qbs in the league. 

 

Did he make a jump this season?   In completion percentage, yes.   But they are hiding him on offense because he's making too many bad plays.  The Ravens aren't hiding Jackson, he's throwing for it on 4th down against the Pats defense.  They are utilizing his abilities to the fullest and he's excelling. 

 

They tried to let Allen sling the rock early on.   What did it lead to?   Disasters. Turnovers galore.  So now they have gone conservative because they can't trust him to do it. 

 

Lastly, I support the brand, not individual players.   They come and they go, Buffalo remains.   I don't hate Allen or wish him to do bad.   I simply have lost faith in him. 

 

They both have ~30 attempts a game.  Allen is 160 yards behind Jackson in total passing yards which works out to 20 yards a game. 20+ yard completions 26 vs 25.  40+ yard completions 5 vs 4. 12 TDs vs 10 TDs. 5 INTS vs 7 INTS. INT% 2.1 vs 2.9.

 

I don't know where you keep coming up with some of this stuff that you spew out but statistically as far as passing they are pretty close.  So if Allen is statistically one of the worst starting QBs in the league then Jackson isn't too far behind him.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Scott7975

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

42 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 I simply have lost faith in him. 

 

Took you 9 pages to finally say it.  Just own it and quit beating around the bush.  I take the opinions of true evaluators over some middle-aged adult still living with his parents.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLUFqx2slds&t=2607s  (Cover 1 analysis of the Redskins game)

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[TwistofFate]

28 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

They both have ~30 attempts a game.  Allen is 160 yards behind Jackson in total passing yards which works out to 20 yards a game. 20+ yard completions 26 vs 25.  40+ yard completions 5 vs 4. 12 TDs vs 10 TDs. 5 INTS vs 7 INTS. INT% 2.1 vs 2.9.

 

I don't know where you keep coming up with some of this stuff that you spew out but statistically as far as passing they are pretty close.  So if Allen is statistically one of the worst starting QBs in the league then Jackson isn't too far behind him.

Jackson done it against high level opponents.  

 

They aren't statistically close.  Jackson has 600 yards of total offense more than Allen, has less Ints, less fumbles, less turnovers total and averages more than 10 points more per game. 

 

Jacksons name is beginning to be mentioned as MVP.  allen is no where near that status. 

 

Are you living under a rock? 

[TwistofFate]

28 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Took you 9 pages to finally say it.  Just own it and quit beating around the bush.  I take the opinions of true evaluators over some middle-aged adult still living with his parents.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLUFqx2slds&t=2607s  (Cover 1 analysis of the Redskins game)

 

 

9 pages to say it?   Beating around the bush?   I've said it multiple times in various different threads. 

 

True evaluators???   LMFAO.  A couple of Buffalo homers talking about the greatness of Allen?

 

Enjoy living sugar plum land. 

 

[Scott7975]

12 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Jackson done it against high level opponents.  

 

They aren't statistically close.  Jackson has 600 yards of total offense more than Allen, has less Ints, less fumbles, less turnovers total and averages more than 10 points more per game. 

 

Jacksons name is beginning to be mentioned as MVP.  allen is no where near that status. 

 

Are you living under a rock? 

 

I posted passing stats.  Yes Jackson is running a lot better.  That team embraces it.  Passing wise they are statistically close to the same.  I posted it.  They are the numbers.  You can't move goal posts. Dolphins, Cardinals, Browns, Steelers, Bengals.  Those are not high level opponents.  That leaves Seattle, NE, and KC.

 

Seattle 9/20 45% 146 yards 0 TD 0 INTs  

KC 22/43 51% 267 yards 0 TD 0 INTs

NE 17/23 74% 163 yards 1 TD 0 INTs

 

Those are the passing stats against high level opponents.  Same stats you crucify Allen for.

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Scott7975

[TwistofFate]

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I posted passing stats.  Yes Jackson is running a lot better.  That team embraces it.  Passing wise they are statistically close to the same.  I posted it.  They are the numbers.  You can't move goal posts. Dolphins, Cardinals, Browns, Steelers, Bengals.  Those are not high level opponents.  That leaves Seattle, NE, and KC.

 

Seattle 9/20 45% 146 yards 0 TD 0 INTs  

KC 22/43 51% 267 yards 0 TD 0 INTs

NE 17/23 74% 163 yards 1 TD 0 INTs

 

Those are the passing stats against high level opponents.  Same stats you crucify Allen for.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb/2019

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001073380/article/lamar-jackson-makes-mvp-case-in-ravens-victory-over-patriots%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env=&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Dbal%3Bteam%3Dbal%3Bconf%3Dafc%3Bdvsn%3Dacn&sr=amp

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/04/earl-thomas-lamar-jackson-is-the-mvp/amp/

 

http://www.nfl.com/m/share?p=%2Fvideos%2Fbaldys-breakdowns%2F0ap3000001068280%2FWhy-Lamar-Jackson-is-an-MVP-candidate-Baldy-s-Breakdowns

[LSHMEAB]

11 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Vegas believes the public thinks Bills are about as good as the Browns. 

Not exactly. There is a distinction here in Vegas between the "public" and the sharp bettors who rely on data.

 

The public is going to bet heavily on the Bills. The sharp money is betting heavily on Cleveland.

 

Hopefully the public wins this one, but I prefer situations when the inverse is true; sharp money on Buffalo, public money on opponent. We shall see. That's why they play the games and all that jazz. A win in Cleveland would be huge for the Bills season. Huge.

[Big Blitz]

You can't match his athleticism no doubt.  But I'm not sure you can say Jackson is ahead of any of the QBs of 2018 as a passer.  He's not really being asked to be one.  

 

Since week 1 against Miami (so I'm not sure it counts?) Lamar has thrown 7 TDs and 5 INTs and has yet to throw for more than 1 TD in a game since September 29.  

 

He only rushed for 6 yards that day.   So almost all of his 600 plus yards rushing has been in the last 7 games.  Not sure how sustainable that it is.  

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

56 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

9 pages to say it?   Beating around the bush?   I've said it multiple times in various different threads. 

 

True evaluators???   LMFAO.  A couple of Buffalo homers talking about the greatness of Allen?

 

Enjoy living sugar plum land. 

 

 

Obviously you didn't watch the video.  They give an honest assessment of where he is improving, where he still needs to improve, and have coached and played.  Something you're incapable of because you can't evaluate talent, your a biased hater, and you still live with your parents.  

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Sportsline agrees with the premise Bills are overrated.  So check these out

 

https://www.sportsline.com/insiders/sportsline-nfl-futures-simulations-have-little-love-for-the-6-2-buffalo-bills/

excerpt from above link

Buffalo might be a bit of a fraud as its wins are over the New York Jets, New York Giants, Cincinnati, Tennessee, Miami and Washington – the Titans are OK but those other teams are truly horrible. The Bills have played two good teams in the Patriots and Eagles and lost both. Buffalo is in Cleveland this Sunday and is a 2.5-point underdog on the NFL odds to a 2-6 team on a four-game losing streak. The Browns are down to a 6.3 percent chance of making the playoffs and it's only that high because the team has a very easy schedule left.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gongCYLPJVjeGTj33E8Jiedw5ER7tj6sUn32Dg9rCvw/edit#gid=1615202201

They have Bills at 20th ranked team in power rankings and only 71% chance of making playoffs in their simulation summary for entire season.  They also have Bills coming in at 9.9 wins - same as Texans.

 

 

 

"... might be a bit of a fraud ..." is absolutely does NOT mean that Sportsline "agrees with the premise Bills are overrated." You've done a mighty poor job of paraphrasing there.

 

A reasonable paraphrase there might be that they think it's possible that the Bills may not be as good as their record would make you think they are.

 

A 71% chance of making the playoffs isn't a team you think is definitely overrated.

 

They're right that the Bills have  questions. But they never said what you think they said.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Not exactly. There is a distinction here in Vegas between the "public" and the sharp bettors who rely on data.

 

The public is going to bet heavily on the Bills. The sharp money is betting heavily on Cleveland.

 

Hopefully the public wins this one, but I prefer situations when the inverse is true; sharp money on Buffalo, public money on opponent. We shall see. That's why they play the games and all that jazz. A win in Cleveland would be huge for the Bills season. Huge.

Seems you're right as the sharps are all over this as around 80% of the bets are on the Bills and the line hasn't moved.  Taking the Browns under a field goal at -2.5 is tempting in order to hedge my emotions.  With my luck the Browns will win by one.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

No comeback wins? 

Baltimore tied it up against Pittsburg by kicking a field goal with 14 seconds left. Then won in OT on a day that Jackson passed for 161 yards 1TD and 3 INTS

Baltimore got their asses handed to them by the Browns on a day where Jackson  threw 2 INTs

Against Seattle Jackson was 9/20 for 143 yards.  The defense had 2 TDs that game.  Are you going to sit there and act like Jackson was the reason they won?

 

As far as passing goes... Jackson only has a ~20 ypg avg more than Allen. That's like 1-2 passes.  Lets not act like Jackson is a world beater while Josh is terrible.  Lets also not act like Baltimore has played all good teams.  Mia, Arizona, Cinci, Pitts, Browns. Jackson is doing well this season but so is Allen.  Jackson may have a couple games where he had bigger highs, but passing wise he really isn't doing all that much better than Allen is.

 

 

20 yards more per game is a lot. Especially when Allen has thrown five more attempts than Jackson has. Producing twenty more yards per game out of fewer attempts, that's really better. And twenty yards per game isn't 1 or 2 more passes, it's about three more attempts ... per game. Allen is averaging 6.8 yards per attempt, so twenty more yards would be three more attempts ... and again, Allen has thrown slightly more than Lamar has, not less.

 

Jackson has been much better this year so far. Josh's 82.9 passer rating vs. Lamar's 95.4 shows that clearly. More TDs, fewer INTs, Lamar's four fumbles vs. Josh's ten ... and that's not even counting run yards, where Josh has been very good and Jackson All-World, on target to gain 1274 yards for the year.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Lets not act like Jackson is a world beater while Josh is terrible.

 

 

 

This is the kind of move that people with losing arguments tend to make. People aren't saying that. You're having to resort to exaggerations and straw man arguments.

 

Mostly what people are saying is that Jackson has been very good this year and Josh below average though either one could get better or worse down the road. They're both young. Plenty of very good QBs were still playing below average football this early in their careers.

 

But as for how each has played this year, Jackson has simply been a lot better. I'm just happy to see that Josh does seem to be trending up lately.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I posted passing stats.  Yes Jackson is running a lot better.  That team embraces it.  Passing wise they are statistically close to the same.  I posted it.  They are the numbers.  You can't move goal posts. Dolphins, Cardinals, Browns, Steelers, Bengals.  Those are not high level opponents.  That leaves Seattle, NE, and KC.

 

Seattle 9/20 45% 146 yards 0 TD 0 INTs  

KC 22/43 51% 267 yards 0 TD 0 INTs

NE 17/23 74% 163 yards 1 TD 0 INTs

 

Those are the passing stats against high level opponents.  Same stats you crucify Allen for.

 

 

 

So then how about Allen against high level opponents, which would be the Patriots.

 

13 for 28, 46% 0 TDs and 3 INTs.

 

 

 

And no, their overall passing stats aren't statistically close to the same.

 

In completion percentage, Jackson is ranked 18th among QBs with more than 100 attempts. Allen is 28th.

 

YPA? Jackson is 13th and Allen 25th.

 

INTs? Allen is in a five-way tie for 8th-most, putting him in the "top" 12 in the league in total INTs.. Jackson is in  for 13th-most, so he's in the "top" 18.

 

TD/INT ratio? Jackson is 12:5. Allen is 10:7. I'm not going through and counting the rankings there, but let's just say that Jackson is within the 22 QBs who have double the amount of TDs, and Allen is not.

 

Passer rating? Jackson is 14th and Allen is 27th.

 

 

 

 

They're not close. I wish Allen's were better enough to get close, but they are not.

 

And again, those are the passing stats, ignoring fumbles and run yards.

 

 

 

Twist of Fate isn't right to have given up hope for Allen, and the fact that he has has clearly colored his perceptions. Allen is young and appears to be trending up. Good things could happen.

 

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

So then how about Allen against high level opponents, which would be the Patriots.

 

13 for 28, 46% 0 TDs and 3 INTs.

 

 

 

And no, their overall passing stats aren't statistically close to the same.

 

In completion percentage, Jackson is ranked 18th among QBs with more than 100 attempts. Allen is 28th.

 

YPA? Jackson is 13th and Allen 25th.

 

INTs? Allen is in a five-way tie for 8th-most, putting him in the "top" 12 in the league in total INTs.. Jackson is in  for 13th-most, so he's in the "top" 18.

 

TD/INT ratio? Jackson is 12:5. Allen is 10:7. I'm not going through and counting the rankings there, but let's just say that Jackson is within the 22 QBs who have double the amount of TDs, and Allen is not.

 

Passer rating? Jackson is 14th and Allen is 27th.

 

 

 

 

They're not close. I wish Allen's were better enough to get close, but they are not.

 

And again, those are the passing stats, ignoring fumbles and run yards.

 

 

 

Twist of Fate isn't right to have given up hope for Allen, and the fact that he has has clearly colored his perceptions. Allen is young and appears to be trending up. Good things could happen.

 

 

 

 

I’m not trying to prove Allen is great here. I’m saying that Allen and Jackson aren’t that far apart. 
 

You’re talking ranks and I’m talking raw stats. 2 int difference is not a lot. 20 yards per game is not a lot to me even though it is to you. 
 

Most of Jackson stats are skewed from a week one Miami game where Miami fielded a high school team and Jackson played lights out and the league wasn’t ready for him. 
 

Again, I’m not saying Jackson is bad. I’m saying they are closer than people want to admit. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Scott7975

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

20 yards more per game is a lot. Especially when Allen has thrown five more attempts than Jackson has. Producing twenty more yards per game out of fewer attempts, that's really better. And twenty yards per game isn't 1 or 2 more passes, it's about three more attempts ... per game. Allen is averaging 6.8 yards per attempt, so twenty more yards would be three more attempts ... and again, Allen has thrown slightly more than Lamar has, not less.

 

Jackson has been much better this year so far. Josh's 82.9 passer rating vs. Lamar's 95.4 shows that clearly. More TDs, fewer INTs, Lamar's four fumbles vs. Josh's ten ... and that's not even counting run yards, where Josh has been very good and Jackson All-World, on target to gain 1274 yards for the year.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the kind of move that people with losing arguments tend to make. People aren't saying that. You're having to resort to exaggerations and straw man arguments.

 

Mostly what people are saying is that Jackson has been very good this year and Josh below average though either one could get better or worse down the road. They're both young. Plenty of very good QBs were still playing below average football this early in their careers.

 

But as for how each has played this year, Jackson has simply been a lot better. I'm just happy to see that Josh does seem to be trending up lately.

 

Not as a passer he hasn't. As a RB at QB? Sure.

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m skeptical this group believes in playmakers at WR.... they had nothing on the perimeter for Cam during their super bowl run. 

ive had the same worry 

[Dopey]

Since it's Browns week a question keeps popping up in my mind every time I see the title of this thread: Would you rather be perceived as a "flawed" 6-2 team or as a "talented" 2-6 team? Ask the Browns this question. I've wanted to ask this question since this thread was started, but never did. Dopey me.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Dopey

[Tcali]

I think the Bills and the Browns are about equal at this point. And the odds reflect that.

Mayfield is the better QB.Better instincts.But Cleveland is its usual mess of a team.

[Chicken Boo]

Those who look strictly at the record and refuse to delve into glaring issues on this team are the same ones who will be furious when all of these flaws rear their ugly head in the most meaningful games.

 

No excuses.  You've been warned.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Those who look strictly at the record and refuse to delve into glaring issues on this team are the same ones who will be furious when all of these flaws rear their ugly head in the most meaningful games.

 

No excuses.  You've been warned.

So the fans play a role in solving the shortcomings...got it

Edited November 6, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[thebandit27]

8 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Jackson done it against high level opponents.  

 

 

No.

 

No he hasn't.

 

He piled up enormous numbers against the train wreck Miami squad (who seemingly have rallied a bit since week 4) in week 1, and has been wholly mediocre at best since.

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by thebandit27