FreeMaxB585 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 with the 2 dt's we already have he hasnt gotten a chance to get as many reps as he needs yet. if you look at ferrel for oakland he started crappy but got to get a ton of snaps and last 2 games he started coming on. need to let him pay the fiddler and give him more snaps. overall a solid B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflabillsfan1 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I'd give him a B. Was a little worried about his size and lack of refinement. Was hoping he could make up for it with leverage and quickness. He hasn't been bad but hasn't been the difference maker people were hoping for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 He aite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billrooter Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 On 11/3/2019 at 6:12 PM, Joe in Winslow said: Funny, there was a poster here who called this the day lil' Ed was drafted.  Wonder what happened to that guy  Isn't it a bit early for anyone to pat themselves on the back? I mean comeon the guy has played 8 games and hasn't even been in a professional off season program yet not to mention he is 21 year old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) On 11/3/2019 at 5:09 PM, cage said: There's so much going on during a live game, its really hard to keep track of players.  However, Joe Buscaglia does a weekly grade on each player using the All-22 video from each play of every game.  The results are published each Wednesday after the game.  He also has cumulative ratings over the season.  Through the Eagles game, Oliver is the #8 ranked player from his analysis that includes both offense and defense.  He's the #2 ranked D-lineman after Hughes and is ranked higher than Matt Milano, Tremaine Edmunds and Jordan Poyer.  We can have our flash thoughts on this, but its really true that you need to study the film in its totality Sorry but Joe B isn’t my source for grading football. A guy who never coached or scouted football for a living grading players is like my high school biology teacher evaluating the next cancer fighting drug. I appreciate his insights, but he isn’t a golden source to me anyway. After a game is over I usually re watch it later and focus on specific different players, with Ed being one of them. He is certainly not passing the eye test of the guy who was going to be a difference maker. I expected more based on the hype. I expect him to wear down even more as the seasons gets longer, which may be the reason for the reduced snap count. Edited November 9, 2019 by Locomark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I wanna give him a C, which is bad enough for the 7th overall pick and Kyle replacement, but I can’t. An alarming D. Imo, McDermott has been uncharacteristically lenient with him, while giving his standard ‘it’s a difficult transition to the pros’ speel. I’m not to sure Jordan Phillips is ‘all that’ -6 sacks notwithstanding, but he’s clearly outplayed Oliver and Coach had to do it. I’m certainly hoping Big Ed uses the offseason to bulk up and beat up blocking sleds. He came in pretty cocky that he was coasting his last year at Houston, but he’s coasting still. Either the expected Big Jump In Year 2 or we break out the B-word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: I wanna give him a C, which is bad enough for the 7th overall pick and Kyle replacement, but I can’t. An alarming D. Imo, McDermott has been uncharacteristically lenient with him, while giving his standard ‘it’s a difficult transition to the pros’ speel. I’m not to sure Jordan Phillips is ‘all that’ -6 sacks notwithstanding, but he’s clearly outplayed Oliver and Coach had to do it. I’m certainly hoping Big Ed uses the offseason to bulk up and beat up blocking sleds. He came in pretty cocky that he was coasting his last year at Houston, but he’s coasting still. Either the expected Big Jump In Year 2 or we break out the B-word. Why wait for him to bulk up? Move him around the line to get the best match-up possible. Why is this not part of The Process? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Haaa, I got a C- in history, the Germans never bombed Pearl Harbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Locomark said: Sorry but Joe B isn’t my source for grading football. A guy who never coached or scouted football for a living grading players is like my high school biology teacher evaluating the next cancer fighting drug. I appreciate his insights, but he isn’t a golden source to me anyway. After a game is over I usually re watch it later and focus on specific different players, with Ed being one of them. He is certainly not passing the eye test of the guy who was going to be a difference maker. I expected more based on the hype. I expect him to wear down even more as the seasons gets longer, which may be the reason for the reduced snap count.  I recognize he's a sports reporter and not a football coach/scout, but someone looking at every player, every snap on all-22 and grading it weekly, is pretty close to the most data we have.  I've read a lot of the comments on this thread (and other like it about other players) and it mostly comes across as guys who watched the game while consuming 4-6 beers spouting off.  I have no idea who among these posters knows what about football, particularly in detail player/position evaluation.  So compared to that, JoeB's analysis seems like it's more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 25 minutes ago, HOUSE said: Haaa, I got a C- in history, the Germans never bombed Pearl Harbor ? Are you tellin’ me it’s a rouze? Like the moon landing and 9/11? and all this time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I’m not sure how everyone feels so confident in grading a D-lineman. Seems like a hard position to judge as a lay-person and not knowing what they are asking him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: I’m not sure how everyone feels so confident in grading a D-lineman. Seems like a hard position to judge as a lay-person and not knowing what they are asking him to do. Point taken. The average schmuck (me) only knows we don’t generate consistent or even decent pass rush without blitzing and we are prone to big, gashing runs just a little too often. In this pass happy game today, at least 2 LBs HAVE to be able to cover underneath routes if not being forsaken for 6 DBs. We’re solid on Defense but we don’t have at least one dominating player in the front 7 that can turn a game in our favor. That’s what we Are confident in grading, regardless of specific down/distance schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 He has the third highest pass rush win rate of any defensive tackle in the NFL. John Randle and Warren Sapp -- two Hall of Fame penetrating DTs -- had one and three sacks in their rookie years, respectively. Ed Oliver is doing fine. He's not lighting the world on fire, but few rookie DTs do. Aaron Donald is the exception, not the rule. Oliver is going to be fine. He's ALREADY been fine. Lack of sacks are the only reason people seem to think otherwise and, like I said, rookie DTs rarely pile up sacks. I give the first half of his rookie season a B to B-, with room for improvement but no worry on my part that he'll be anything other than a very good player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 hour ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: I’m not sure how everyone feels so confident in grading a D-lineman. Seems like a hard position to judge as a lay-person and not knowing what they are asking him to do. I know they're not asking him to stay blocked as long as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I know they're not asking him to stay blocked as long as possible.  Good job he isn't then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, Logic said: He has the third highest pass rush win rate of any defensive tackle in the NFL. John Randle and Warren Sapp -- two Hall of Fame penetrating DTs -- had one and three sacks in their rookie years, respectively. Ed Oliver is doing fine. He's not lighting the world on fire, but few rookie DTs do. Aaron Donald is the exception, not the rule. Oliver is going to be fine. He's ALREADY been fine. Lack of sacks are the only reason people seem to think otherwise and, like I said, rookie DTs rarely pile up sacks. I give the first half of his rookie season a B to B-, with room for improvement but no worry on my part that he'll be anything other than a very good player. Fine post. It may be that pass rush/consistent penetration is what he was supposed to bring immediately and he really hasn’t done either. He holds his own and yes, he’s in on a lot of tackles in the 2nd level, but even ‘old Kyle’ could still get to the QB once in a while. I don’t question the stats you offer, I question the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 32 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Point taken. The average schmuck (me) only knows we don’t generate consistent or even decent pass rush without blitzing and we are prone to big, gashing runs just a little too often. In this pass happy game today, at least 2 LBs HAVE to be able to cover underneath routes if not being forsaken for 6 DBs. We’re solid on Defense but we don’t have at least one dominating player in the front 7 that can turn a game in our favor. That’s what we Are confident in grading, regardless of specific down/distance schemes. I hear you. I think we can all spot a truly A+ difference maker, like an Aaron Donald. And Oliver hasn’t been that. I just don’t know how much of our problems can be attributed to him, what he has been asked to do, and even what he’s been really good/bad with.   I just don’t feel super confident with that particular position to judge anyone. (Case in point is that recent Star article, where apparently the Bills think he has been doing a great job!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Just now, Chandler#81 said: Fine post. It may be that pass rush/consistent penetration is what he was supposed to bring immediately and he really hasn’t done either. He holds his own and yes, he’s in on a lot of tackles in the 2nd level, but even ‘old Kyle’ could stil get to the QB once in a while. I don’t question the stats you offer, I question the results. Fair enough. A key point to remember with Oliver, I think, is that he DOMINATED lower level competition his entire life. I doubt he had to employ much advanced hand usage or really learn the position very thoroughly. I bet it was just "beat your man" or "hold/split your double team", and he was so talented and superior to the competition that he could do those things without understanding the nuances of the position. He has said as much himself. He seems/seemed surprised and newly cognizant of all the work he needs to put in, the hand usage, scheme knowledge, and technical nuance he needs to learn. But he knows he needs to learn it, he seems EAGER to learn it, and he's in a room with great coaches and veteran players who can teach him. For the reasons listed above, I'm not worried about him. Similar to Josh Allen as a rookie, he's getting by on sheer physical talent right now. Once he actually learns the game (and has a full offseason in an NFL weight and training program), he'll be a killer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Logic said: He has the third highest pass rush win rate of any defensive tackle in the NFL. John Randle and Warren Sapp -- two Hall of Fame penetrating DTs -- had one and three sacks in their rookie years, respectively. Ed Oliver is doing fine. He's not lighting the world on fire, but few rookie DTs do. Aaron Donald is the exception, not the rule.Oliver is going to be fine. He's ALREADY been fine. Lack of sacks are the only reason people seem to think otherwise and, like I said, rookie DTs rarely pile up sacks. I give the first half of his rookie season a B to B-, with room for improvement but no worry on my part that he'll be anything other than a very good player.  ....very fair assessment.......and I agree...BUT....we are in the "TBD House Of Unreasonable Expectations" for ANYBODY drafted in the 1st.....the "he sucks" label is awarded quickly...."Too Small" Ed and Josh come to mind......of course there is little or no difference between the collegiate game versus the NFL, right?......hell I'd stay in school and get TWO Masters and a PhD before wanting to be drafted by OBD and face this "firing squad"...SMH... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: Â ....very fair assessment.......and I agree...BUT....we are in the "TBD House Of Unreasonable Expectations" for ANYBODY drafted in the 1st.....the "he sucks" label is awarded quickly...."Too Small" Ed and Josh come to mind......of course there is little or no difference between the collegiate game versus the NFL, right?......hell I'd stay in school and get TWO Masters and a PhD before wanting to be drafted by OBD and face this "firing squad"...SMH... The instantaneous judgement of draft picks is so ridiculous. Eight games in and many fans are ready to declare a player a bust. It's madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Just now, Logic said: The instantaneous judgement of draft picks is so ridiculous. Eight games in and many fans are ready to declare a player a bust. It's madness. Â ....the TBD cache of 3,842 budding GM's with resumes' in hand tend to lash out because no club calls them for an interview...that would be NFL, AAF, XFL, Lingerie League, Pop Warner, Lackawanna HS et al.......it is disheartening waiting for the phone to ring..... Â 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 When I first opened this thread I noticed members names that are not usually  seen here except when being hyper critical about some aspect of the team. Then they disappear again.  Which is good... ?  Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chill Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Don Otreply said: When I first opened this thread I noticed members names that are not usually  seen here except when being hyper critical about some aspect of the team. Then they disappear again.  Which is good... ?  Go Bills!!! Let’s not forget the hyper micromanagers who feel it’s appropriate to bring this to our attention...?  Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Chill said: Let’s not forget the hyper micromanagers who feel it’s appropriate to bring this to our attention...?  Go Bills!!! Just a quick observation Sheila,  I guess the shoe fits... hope it not to tight..  Go Bills!!! Edited November 10, 2019 by Don Otreply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUNT750 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 11/3/2019 at 5:56 PM, JaCrispy said: Sounds about right... Great post!   I see him as another Shaq Lawson with his inability to shake blockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chill Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Just a quick observation Sheila,  I guess the shoe fits... hope it not to tight..  Go Bills!!! What’s next, are you going to start fixing spelling errors?  Stop trying to control the board. Thanks.  Go Bills!! Edited November 10, 2019 by Chill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Chill said: What’s next, are you going to start fixing spelling errors?  Stop trying to control the board. Thanks.  Go Bills!! Okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 11 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: I hear you. I think we can all spot a truly A+ difference maker, like an Aaron Donald. And Oliver hasn’t been that. I just don’t know how much of our problems can be attributed to him, what he has been asked to do, and even what he’s been really good/bad with.   I just don’t feel super confident with that particular position to judge anyone. (Case in point is that recent Star article, where apparently the Bills think he has been doing a great job!) Sure, everyone can spot the difference maker AFTER they start making a difference, but no one thought Aaron Donald was going to be THIS good. If so, he would’ve been the top pick in his draft, not someone drafted in the teens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) Instead of making a new thread will keep this going.  He didn't even register a tackle today and only played like 1/3rd the D snaps last week. I seen him on the field once today on the crazy 50 play goal line stance. Is he injured? In the dog house? Coaching giving up on him? I'm "concerned" at this point. I would love to here some insight from anybody or McD on this 1st rd pick. Edited November 11, 2019 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I didnt notice him at all today against the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Instead of making a new thread will keep this going.  He didn't even register a tackle today and only played like 1/3rd the D snaps last week. I seen him on the field once today on the crazy goal 50play goal line stance. Is he injured? In the dog house? Coaching giving up on him? I'm "concerned" at this point. I would love to here some insight from anybody or McD on this 1st rd pick.  I think Oliver is just not very good against the run.  He needs to bulk up and get stronger as he gets dominated by the OG.  Oliver hasn't been a factor in the pass rush, either.  So between him being a rookie and a little undersized, Oliver isn't making any type of impact, hence decreased playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocbillsfan1 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I was wondering if this would pop up o don’t even remember seeing him on the field today. That hurts. He better not turn into a maybin of dt. Maybe there’s a last resort shot at de of this continues next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:  I think Oliver is just not very good against the run.  He needs to bulk up and get stronger as he gets dominated by the OG.  Oliver hasn't been a factor in the pass rush, either.  So between him being a rookie and a little undersized, Oliver isn't making any type of impact, hence decreased playing time. This is most likely what is going down. This is a really bad look for our FO, aside from the QB position you don't draft 1st rd D lineman as development player.  Is he a bust or what? if not he needs to play.  Should have drafted Metcalf. Edited November 11, 2019 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Just now, Real McCoy said: This is most likely what is going down. This is a really bad look for our FA, aside from the QB position you don't draft 1st rd D lineman as development player.  Is he a bust or what? if not he needs to play.  Should have drafted Metcalf. FO? Yeah and Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 On 11/3/2019 at 5:54 PM, Big Blitz said: First today---I tried to pay attention to him more....it looked like we cut his snaps. Do we have a count from the game?  But anyway overall I see a guy that just doesn't get off his blocks. He does a good job eating space and being tough to move.....but you can work around that in the NFL where they have no problem with that so long as it's one on one. Double team space eating is what you want. His get off really is phenomenal. But you can trap and attack that. I think that's happened a bunch and it's just a fixable issue with coaching.   So far, and please post clips whatever you got but I don't see too many double teams lately. And obviously teams have found something when it comes to running on us. Our DTs are going to have to turn it up with the teams we've got coming up.       Overall I'd grade the first half of his rookie season as a C-. Definitely going to get better with experience. Like Allen, he's had to adjust to much stiffer competition.  C-  Wow great value for the #9 pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, london_bills said: FO? Yeah and Ford. Yeah FO - Fixed.  I have no problems with Ford he is playing and developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: This is most likely what is going down. This is a really bad look for our FA, aside from the QB position you don't draft 1st rd D lineman as development player.  Is he a bust or what? if not he needs to play.  Should have drafted Metcalf.  Is he a bust?  Too early to say that.  I don't think Kyle did much (QB sacks) until late in his second or third year. I think it is clear that the FO and coaches were expecting more from Ed Oliver than what he has delivered.  Some of it also falls into McD's scheme and who lines up with Oliver since he cannot generate a pass rush by himself.  I think we should have drafted a bigger one tech DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZBILLS Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Should have drafted Metcalf.  He would have turned into a drop machine.  No way he makes the catches he makes with Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:  Is he a bust?  Too early to say that.  I don't think Kyle did much (QB sacks) until late in his second or third year. I think it is clear that the FO and coaches were expecting more from Ed Oliver than what he has delivered.  Some of it also falls into McD's scheme and who lines up with Oliver since he cannot generate a pass rush by himself.  I think we should have drafted a bigger one tech DT. True but Kyle being a 5th rounder offsets that I think. I guess my expectations are too high. I expect a top 10 draft pick to immediately step in and be a impact player for our D. I'm probably being way to critical. I typically support giving the player time but this just feels off after the last couple weeks.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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