A lesson learned? It is not all about Defense

[Billsatlastin2018]

17 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

31.  Points allowed by the D.  QBR never tells the whole story.  Let it go.  

Yep D was garbage.

 

And when the going got tough, down 13-24, exactly what happened with the franchise QB ?

 

* 3 & Out for 6 yards

* 6 & Out for 14 yards

* 3 & Out for 0 yards

* 3 & Out for -12 yards

* 4 & Out for 6 yards

 

Total for the CRITICAL last 1.5 Quarters?

 

5 Series, 19 Plays for 14 Yards!

 

What part of that doesn’t scream inept?

 

The Bills are in a very bad place!

 

They can’t throw long and they have been found out.

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Yep D was garbage.

 

And when the going got tough, down 13-24, exactly what happened with the franchise QB ?

 

* 3 & Out for 6 yards

* 6 & Out for 14 yards

* 3 & Out for 0 yards

* 3 & Out for -12 yards

* 4 & Out for 6 yards

 

Total for the CRITICAL last 1.5 Quarters?

 

5 Series, 19 Plays for 14 Yards!

 

What part of that doesn’t scream inept?

 

The Bills are in a very bad place!

 

They can’t throw long and they have been found out.

 

 

 

 

I think Johnson during the telecast pointed out long throws make up less than 5% of offensive plays.

 

Allen needed to be better today, but the ineptness the second half to me involved the O line getting killed.  

[Success]

The loss was a bummer.  But 5-2 is a good record.

 

I'm cool.

 

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Today was defensive and offensive faults and because of being dominated up front.  Winning football happens up front as it has since football was invented.

We scored 13 points. We would be 0-6 with that offensive performance every week.

Edited October 27, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[oldmanfan]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

We scored 13 points. 

And gave up over 30.  And both lines stunk.  Which is the primary reason we only scored 14 and gave up what we gave up.

 

Are you going to seriously say that the line play had nothing to do with today’s outcome?

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And gave up over 30.  And both lines stunk.  Which is the primary reason we only scored 14 and gave up what we gave up.

 

Are you going to seriously say that the line play had nothing to do with today’s outcome?

It had something to do with it. So did the defense allowing 30+. But AGAIN, the defense has bailed out the offense plenty all year. The one game the defense DOESNT bail out the offense, and we were done 4 minutes after halftime. 

 

THAT’S the point.

[dubs]

Lesson learned??  Did anyone think it WAS all about defense BEFORE this game?

 

i swear, the ridiculous things people post just so they can start a thread is mind bottling. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by dubs

[oldmanfan]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

It had something to do with it. So did the defense allowing 30+. But AGAIN, the defense has bailed out the offense plenty all year. The one game the defense DOESNT bail out the offense, and we were done 4 minutes after halftime. 

 

THAT’S the point.

And that’s because of multiple factors, the line getting blown up a main one.  And play calling another.  And Allen as another.

 

Not just Allen.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

They can’t throw long and they have been found out.

 

This is probably a moot point, but what part of swirling 20-30 mph winds make throwing long sound like a game-changer to you today?

 

We did miss a FG and an XP we normally make, the point being that conditions were difficult

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And that’s because of multiple factors, the line getting blown up a main one.  And play calling another.  And Allen as another.

 

Not just Allen.

Sure, Allen and the offense let us down today. Never argued otherwise.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Sure, Allen and the offense let us down today. Never argued otherwise.

 

I could be wrong, but it’s the “multiple factors” and “line getting blown up” (both sides) part that I think he’s trying to argue - and you do seem to be arguing otherwise.

[Happy]

59 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The concerning thing is year 3 into the regime and they are still getting out coached and overmatched against certain teams..... that shouldn't be happening at this point, IMO.

 

This is a valid point, and I completely agree.  Doug Pederson is a good coach, who out schemed McD...in all three phases.  Brian Flores even out schemed McD last week (he saw the weakness in the middle of our DL) and gashed us in the run game; Miami just didn't have the personnel to pull the game out.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong, but it’s the “multiple factors” and “line getting blown up” (both sides) part that I think he’s trying to argue - and you do seem to be arguing otherwise.

You got it.

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong, but it’s the “multiple factors” and “line getting blown up” (both sides) part that I think he’s trying to argue - and you do seem to be arguing otherwise.

Yeah I think you’re wrong. I don’t know when the offensive line wasn’t a part of the offense. And I’m pretty sure I said the defense couldn’t bail us out today, which implied they didn’t play to their normal level. 

[BuffaninATL]

3 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

They were great, then after the bye week, they became sloppy. In this case, having a great defense ended up being a detriment. Daboll relied too much on our D, and today we paid for it

 

I beg to differ - great is a stretch by any measure

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, vorpma said:

We lost a fricking game and are 5 - 2, let's not turn into drama queens and go into meltdown! Naturally we have to hang someone to vent our emotions! It's like a 1960's Soap Opera and a 1950's western combined!

a true drama queen could put it no better.  

[SirAndrew]

2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

This is a valid point, and I completely agree.  Doug Pederson is a good coach, who out schemed McD...in all three phases.  Brian Flores even out schemed McD last week (he saw the weakness in the middle of our DL) and gashed us in the run game; Miami just didn't have the personnel to pull the game out.

This is my biggest issue. I like the McBeane regime. They took us to the playoffs, and restored direction to this franchise. McDermott was able to take a 2017 squad with very little talent to the playoffs. That says a lot about the guy as a coach. However, my concern is the fact that McDermott teams continue to suffer blow out losses at home against quality opponents. That’s not supposed to happen to decent NFL teams. McDermott and his coaching staff continue to get outschemed and outcoached against good opponents. 

[buffalo2218]

1 minute ago, BuffaninATL said:

 

I beg to differ - great is a stretch by any measure

They were playing as good as they could before the bye week, even against the Pats. Somehow, it seems they took a huge step backwards. If the same D that played the Pats played today, would probably have been a different outcome

[Billsfan1972]

Again the Bills need to figure out whether they have a franchise qb.  Is Allen Drew Brees or Blake Bortles.  Jacksonville spun it's wheels thinking they had a an Elite defense and could win with Blake Bortles (who at least did have 300 yard passing games).  It was a huge mistake & now they are starting over......

 

I think Allen could be very good, but watching this offense and how Daboll & McClappy built & run it, makes me wonder if we'll ever know.  

 

BTW look too at the Bears & Trubinsky and expecting the D to allow 10 points or less......  

Edited October 27, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Billsfan1972]

So before the bye week this Defense was so good, that all the Offense needed to do was ground & pound, make no mistakes & 14-20 points would be enough to win week after week.

 

Too lazy to find those posts, but there were many.

 

Now it is back to worrying about JA.......

 

You guys crack me up.....

[SoCal Deek]

The game was lost at the beginning of the fourth quarter. The Bills had taken a few punches but were still in it when they got the ball and the wind to start the fourth quarter. That’s the exact same point where they’ve gone on to win games this season....but today a totally lethargic offense went three and out taking just 22 seconds off the clock and putting a tired defense back on the field. The Eagles knew it and went on an 8:30 minute drive to kill the clock and the game. That three and out possession was 100% horrible.....game over!

[dlonce]

4 hours ago, vorpma said:

We lost a fricking game and are 5 - 2, let's not turn into drama queens and go into meltdown! Naturally we have to hang someone to vent our emotions! It's like a 1960's Soap Opera and a 1950's western combined!

We lost against a team we should have beat, hence the comments.

Daboll blows as anOC.

2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

This is a valid point, and I completely agree.  Doug Pederson is a good coach, who out schemed McD...in all three phases.  Brian Flores even out schemed McD last week (he saw the weakness in the middle of our DL) and gashed us in the run game; Miami just didn't have the personnel to pull the game out.

You can say that but McD is a defensive guy who depends upon on an oC. The problem is our college coach Daboll, he’s not a good NFL OC.skip the “He was with the patriot's *****”

Edited October 28, 2019 by dlonce

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Our defense is marginally above average and our schedule has been as easy as it gets. That's the truth of it. White is good, but not great. The same goes for Hughes, Poyer and Lorenzo. Hyde is very good, but not elite. The rest of the defense could very easily be replaced with no loss.

What have all those guys to do to stopping the run...The Bills got bull dozed in the 2nd half by the Eagles RBs

[Johnnycage46]

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Yep D was garbage.

 

And when the going got tough, down 13-24, exactly what happened with the franchise QB ?

 

* 3 & Out for 6 yards

* 6 & Out for 14 yards

* 3 & Out for 0 yards

* 3 & Out for -12 yards

* 4 & Out for 6 yards

 

Total for the CRITICAL last 1.5 Quarters?

 

5 Series, 19 Plays for 14 Yards!

 

What part of that doesn’t scream inept?

 

The Bills are in a very bad place!

 

They can’t throw long and they have been found out.

 

 

 

 

Agreed the D did poorly and lost the game.  Hopefully they pick it up next week.

[Happy]

6 minutes ago, dlonce said:

We lost against a team we should have beat, hence the comments.

Daboll blows as anOC.

You can say that but McD is a defensive guy who depends upon on an oC. The problem is our college coach Daboll, he’s not a good NFL OC.

 

True, Daboll is McD's hand picked OC, Leslie Frazier is McD's hand picked DC, and Heath Farwell is his hand picked SpT coordinator; their performance reflects on McD...good or bad.  Right now, the later is prevalent.  I'm convinced Farwell is Danny Crossman in disguise.  Daboll has been disappointing and Frazier can't adjust when his scheme has been figured out and not working.

[dje85]

5 hours ago, FUTURIST said:

 

Win 10 or 11?  Against who.  They beat the Redskins, Dolphins, and Jets, and likely the Broncos.

 

Are they winning on the road against Cleveland, Dallas, Pittsburgh or New England. Or at home against the Ravens?   I don't see it.  9 wins.

 

Cleveland are playing like poo and Pittsburg is very beatable. Could easily beat both or one of the to two atleast.  

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Possibly below average.  Not encouraging.

Or the D right?  Pretty obvious the D blew the game today and almost lost to Miami last week.  Allen isn't the problem.  Ironically, right now the D is.

The score was close and low enough at halftime.

 

I'm watching SNF right now way tape delayed.  there are 2 minutes left in the first quarter and Rodgers has done more positive quarterbacking already than Allen did all day long today.  14-0 GB already.  

 

Allen's fumble gave the Eagles 8 points for free at a really bad time and we never recovered from that.  

 

When will folks realize you need more than barely adequate QBing to win in the NFL today?

 

 

 

[Jrb1979]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

The score was close and low enough at halftime.

 

I'm watching SNF right now way tape delayed.  there are 2 minutes left in the first quarter and Rodgers has done more positive quarterbacking already than Allen did all day long today.  14-0 GB already.  

 

Allen's fumble gave the Eagles 8 points for free at a really bad time and we never recovered from that.  

 

When will folks realize you need more than barely adequate QBing to win in the NFL today?

 

 

 

Trust the process. ?

 

Allen is looking more and more as JAG. Until pMcClappity gets away from being conservative and plays football like it's played in 2019, things will never change. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Agreed the D did poorly and lost the game.  Hopefully they pick it up next week.

We scored 13 points!!!!!!!

[Locomark]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again the Bills need to figure out whether they have a franchise qb.  Is Allen Drew Brees or Blake Bortles.  Jacksonville spun it's wheels thinking they had a an Elite defense and could win with Blake Bortles (who at least did have 300 yard passing games).  It was a huge mistake & now they are starting over......

 

I think Allen could be very good, but watching this offense and how Daboll & McClappy built & run it, makes me wonder if we'll ever know.  

 

BTW look too at the Bears & Trubinsky and expecting the D to allow 10 points or less......  

As someone who lives in Chicago let’s not compare this offense with the Bears. The Bears throw 4 yard passes all game long and then expect the defense to pull the game out. The Bills run a lot of 8-14 yard plays but their play calling, running game, is suspect. We don’t throw slants, screens, or even run outside the tackles very often. We are entirely  predictable other than the 3 or 4 plays run off that jet pitch package and we sat that guy today. Our offensive identity is unknown. The Bears know their identity, it’s 4 yard passes.

[Johnnycage46]

23 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The score was close and low enough at halftime.

 

I'm watching SNF right now way tape delayed.  there are 2 minutes left in the first quarter and Rodgers has done more positive quarterbacking already than Allen did all day long today.  14-0 GB already.  

 

Allen's fumble gave the Eagles 8 points for free at a really bad time and we never recovered from that.  

 

When will folks realize you need more than barely adequate QBing to win in the NFL today?

 

 

 

Wait Allen's fumble was an 8 point play?  The D had NOTHING to do with that or any other Eagles scoring drive.  Agreed lol

19 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

We scored 13 points!!!!!!!

Good job reading the box score.  Also the D gave up 31.  Just in case you missed that in the box score!!!!!!! Was that the right number of exlaimation points?  When they are stacked like that it gets hard to tell exactly how many there are.  Toodles.

[BringBackOrton]

21 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Wait Allen's fumble was an 8 point play?  The D had NOTHING to do with that or any other Eagles scoring drive.  Agreed lol

Good job reading the box score.  Also the D gave up 31.  Just in case you missed that in the box score!!!!!!! Was that the right number of exlaimation points?  When they are stacked like that it gets hard to tell exactly how many there are.  Toodles.

If the D gave up 14, we still would have lost. Incredible how this offense gets a pass. 

[Billsfan1972]

6 hours ago, Locomark said:

As someone who lives in Chicago let’s not compare this offense with the Bears. The Bears throw 4 yard passes all game long and then expect the defense to pull the game out. The Bills run a lot of 8-14 yard plays but their play calling, running game, is suspect. We don’t throw slants, screens, or even run outside the tackles very often. We are entirely  predictable other than the 3 or 4 plays run off that jet pitch package and we sat that guy today. Our offensive identity is unknown. The Bears know their identity, it’s 4 yard passes.

I was using Chicago as an example of a team that thinks their team (like Buffalo) can win 12 games based on Defense alone.  Not comparing the offenses at all except for the fact that neither of them have much confidence in them or seem to know how to best use them.

5 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

If the D gave up 14, we still would have lost. Incredible how this offense gets a pass. 

No one gives the Offense a pass.....  If anything they are screaming for the OC & McClappity to unleash the offense and see what JA has.

 

It is those who were spouting that this was a top 3 defense and that the offense just needs to score 14 (and if needed an offensive explosion of 20) a game & not make mistakes and they'd be a top tier team that had me getting upset.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The offense needs to start pulling their weight.  You can't expect the defense to be lights out for the full 60 minutes.

 

Maybe not but you can expect them not to get gashed for 60 up the middle.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Maybe not but you can expect them not to get gashed for 60 up the middle.

 

If it was the one Sanders run, that happens. It is the NFL. Your linebacker misses a gap like Milano did. Your safety over rurns the play and gets locked up and can't disengage like Hyde did and there is a huge hole and it goes for 60 (from the runner I wanted to draft as well which was an extra kick in the gut). 

 

The much bigger concern was the drive after the Singletary score. Where they methodically ran the same play time and time again and we couldn't stop it. Because even when it was the exact same play he just saw Edmunds STILL attacked the wrong gap and out interior D line was being beat up. 

[ProcessTruster]

14 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Is it good though?  Pretty alarming the last 2 weeks.

 

Yeah, my fear was this team is not ready as they cannot score enough points yet.   It's a process.  The offense is better than last year for sure.   Beane will continue to improve the roster and McD will continue to coach them up.   At this time last year we wanted to fire them all.  So, see, things are better! 

 

That Allen fumble on the short field was inexcusable there in the second quarter.  Daboll will learn from that.  I;ll bet you never see that play called on our side of the 50 again.

 

Everyone is learning.   non conference loss.  no big deal.  Trust the Process.

Edited October 28, 2019 by ProcessTruster

[Billsfan1972]

31 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

 

Yeah, my fear was this team is not ready as they cannot score enough points yet.   It's a process.  The offense is better than last year for sure.   Beane will continue to improve the roster and McD will continue to coach them up.   At this time last year we wanted to fire them all.  So, see, things are better! 

 

That Allen fumble on the short field was inexcusable there in the second quarter.  Daboll will learn from that.  I;ll bet you never see that play called on our side of the 50 again.

 

Everyone is learning.   non conference loss.  no big deal.  Trust the Process.

Yep here we go again........  Expect little & I guess you are happy.....  The Offense will be good in 2022 I guess and then we'll know if JA is the QB of the future????

 

Throw him in to the fire, give him weapons and see what they have.

[SoTier]

15 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The Bills Defense is good, not great and this continual play it close to the vest and between the 20's eventually is exposed.  And vs. a 3-4 team at home.

 

Lot's of lessons learned and hope the Coaching Staff has some answers.  

 

Luckily the next 4 games are all very winnable.  

 

I don't think that the Bills coaching staff can change their style because "play it close to the vest and between the 20s" is simply McDermott's mindset.  His coaches on both sides of the ball reflect the HC's philosophy.  

[Billsfan1972]

6 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I don't think that the Bills coaching staff can change their style because "play it close to the vest and between the 20s" is simply McDermott's mindset.  His coaches on both sides of the ball reflect the HC's philosophy.  

Can we agree it is not a winning strategy????

[BringBackOrton]

13 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I was using Chicago as an example of a team that thinks their team (like Buffalo) can win 12 games based on Defense alone.  Not comparing the offenses at all except for the fact that neither of them have much confidence in them or seem to know how to best use them.

No one gives the Offense a pass.....  If anything they are screaming for the OC & McClappity to unleash the offense and see what JA has.

 

It is those who were spouting that this was a top 3 defense and that the offense just needs to score 14 (and if needed an offensive explosion of 20) a game & not make mistakes and they'd be a top tier team that had me getting upset.

Well we are 5-2 with that model. Unfortunately, Josh can’t seem to stop making mistakes. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by BringBackOrton