Allen>>>Darnold

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I saw a lot of posts saying the exact same thing for Allen. Yes he had a bad game against rhe best d in the league. As for the media, they seemed more concerned that Allen was knocked out if the game, not how bad he was.

 

We score a TD late in the 4th if Allen was still in the game.  I can't confidently say we beat the Pats even if we score the TD there because Brady on game winning drives...we know the story.  But we would have taken the lead 17-16 and that stadium would have been electric.  

 

[bills6969]

At this point, i'd rank the 2018 QB draft class like this:

 

1: Jackson

2: Allen

3: Baker

4: Darnold

5: Rosen

[C.Biscuit97]

Are people going to do this every week?  

[Dopey]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We score a TD late in the 4th if Allen was still in the game.  I can't confidently say we beat the Pats even if we score the TD there because Brady on game winning drives...we know the story.  But we would have taken the lead 17-16 and that stadium would have been electric.  

 

My post was more to let joe in winslow know Allen got a pass for playing poorly vs. the pats too. 

2 minutes ago, bills6969 said:

At this point, i'd rank the 2018 QB draft class like this:

 

1: Jackson

2: Allen

3: Baker

4: Darnold

5: Rosen

Wonder where Baker will be after playing the pats next week.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Dopey

[HomeTeam]

These knee jerk reactions have got to stop. Can we please just wait a few years before we start crowning/ condemning these kids. 

 

All we know, is that Allen has been the right fit for the city of Buffalo and at this point that is all you can ask for. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, HomeTeam said:

These knee jerk reactions have got to stop. Can we please just wait a few years before we start crowning/ condemning these kids. 

 

All we know, is that Allen has been the right fit for the city of Buffalo and at this point that is all you can ask for. 

I agree with your post but I think all of these guys could have fit Buffalo.  There’s some narrative that Allen is a Buffalo guy more than other QBs. Not really sure why.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, bills6969 said:

At this point, i'd rank the 2018 QB draft class like this:

 

1: Jackson

2: Allen

3: Baker

4: Darnold

5: Rosen

 

What are you ranking on? How they have looked just this season that is right I'd say. If you are ranking full body of work since they have been in the league then it is hard to make a production argument for Allen over Baker. Baker has 30Tds and 20Ints, Allen has 17Tds and 19Ints. If you add Allen's rushing touchdowns it is closer but I have always said QB rushing Tds are cherries on top to me. I want to know what they do throwing the ball. Baker throws more Tds, higher %, higher ypa, for more yards a game. Allen's number are better than Baker's this year and that matches the eye test too but I think people are quick to throw out what Baker did as a rookie. 

 

 

[HomeTeam]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

I agree with your post but I think all of these guys could have fit Buffalo.  There’s some narrative that Allen is a Buffalo guy more than other QBs. Not really sure why.  

I could of seen that with Darnold also. I my opinion, Allen just encompasses the city more since he also was overlooked overlooked growing up. 

 

Anyways, I'm just optimistic that we have the leadership in place to develop Josh into a franchise winning quarterback. 

[Captain Hindsight]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What are you ranking on? How they have looked just this season that is right I'd say. If you are ranking full body of work since they have been in the league then it is hard to make a production argument for Allen over Baker. Baker has 30Tds and 20Ints, Allen has 17Tds and 19Ints. If you add Allen's rushing touchdowns it is closer but I have always said QB rushing Tds are cherries on top to me. I want to know what they do throwing the ball. Baker throws more Tds, higher %, higher ypa, for more yards a game. Allen's number are better than Baker's this year and that matches the eye test too but I think people are quick to throw out what Baker did as a rookie. 

 

 

I would rank just on  this season. All these guys have had similar number of starts at this point. A few arrows are pointing up, a few have leveled off and a few have disappeared completely 

 

I'm happy to see our guy trending up. All have flaws however and they will continue to struggle from time to time

 

I think Darnold will be just fine. Hes good, just had an awful night

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, HomeTeam said:

I could of seen that with Darnold also. I my opinion, Allen just encompasses the city more since he also was overlooked overlooked growing up. 

 

Anyways, I'm just optimistic that we have the leadership in place to develop Josh into a franchise winning quarterback. 

Sorry, I’m just nitpicking here but I think Jackson and Mayfield would have embraced Buffalo as well because they are currently playing in similar cities.

 

and I’m kinda over the whole little old Buffalo mentality. I want us to start thinking we aren’t the underdogs anymore.  Hope this makes sense.

[HomeTeam]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Sorry, I’m just nitpicking here but I think Jackson and Mayfield would have embraced Buffalo as well because they are currently playing in similar cities.

 

and I’m kinda over the whole little old Buffalo mentality. I want us to start thinking we aren’t the underdogs anymore.  Hope this makes sense.

I get that. That is a healthy perspective to have. I guess that narrative holds true, because we the fans make it true.  

 

Why not us!? haha

 

Go Bills!

[Wayne Cubed]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What are you ranking on? How they have looked just this season that is right I'd say. If you are ranking full body of work since they have been in the league then it is hard to make a production argument for Allen over Baker. Baker has 30Tds and 20Ints, Allen has 17Tds and 19Ints. If you add Allen's rushing touchdowns it is closer but I have always said QB rushing Tds are cherries on top to me. I want to know what they do throwing the ball. Baker throws more Tds, higher %, higher ypa, for more yards a game. Allen's number are better than Baker's this year and that matches the eye test too but I think people are quick to throw out what Baker did as a rookie. 

 

 

 

That would knock down Jackson a bit too. While he has preformed well at the position, using his legs, since the start of the season his passer rating is on a steady decline. When defenses adjust to his run and take away his outlet TEs, we will see what happens. The Seattle win is nice but he did have the help of 2 pick 6's and I think his real challenges will come with BB/Pats after the bye. He has some tough defenses in the second half of the season:  Patriots, Texans, Rams, Bills and 49ers. So while he may be the media darling at this point, the second half of the season will tell the tale.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

11 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Rosen could kick the Patriots’ asses!!! He’s that NFL ready!!

I mean, all he needed was a tweak of his basic throwing motion to make it, you know, NFL ready, but other than that, totally!!! 

 

[Big Gun]

22 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

That would knock down Jackson a bit too. While he has preformed well at the position, using his legs, since the start of the season his passer rating is on a steady decline. When defenses adjust to his run and take away his outlet TEs, we will see what happens. The Seattle win is nice but he did have the help of 2 pick 6's and I think his real challenges will come with BB/Pats after the bye. He has some tough defenses in the second half of the season:  Patriots, Texans, Rams, Bills and 49ers. So while he may be the media darling at this point, the second half of the season will tell the tale.

Jackson stat line vs the Seahawks was 9/20 143 yds, 0/0, 1 sack, 116 yards rushing  1 TD and 2 fumbles.

 

If that was Allens stat line 75% of this board would be calling for his benching and saying Barkley should be the starter going forward. Heck there were some calling for that during the Dolphins first half.  

[Speedy Beebe]

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

He played in 3 of them and is 1-2.  

I’m not sticking up for Darnold but to put the blame on him for the other games was puzzling to me. 

[C.Biscuit97]

36 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Jackson stat line vs the Seahawks was 9/20 143 yds, 0/0, 1 sack, 116 yards rushing  1 TD and 2 fumbles.

 

If that was Allens stat line 75% of this board would be calling for his benching and saying Barkley should be the starter going forward. Heck there were some calling for that during the Dolphins first half.  

They won a road game in Seattle against a 5-1 team.  

[TOboy]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I mean, all he needed was a tweak of his basic throwing motion to make it, you know, NFL ready, but other than that, totally!!! 

 

 

I was so sure he was the "right" Josh...thank god I'm not making these decisions  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 minutes ago, TOboy said:

 

I was so sure he was the "right" Josh...thank god I'm not making these decisions  

It's ok, I almost believed Buddy when he said that they were totally comfortable with where they drafted EJ at , so I'm hardly FO qualified myself. 

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/65051/why-bills-drafted-ej-manuel-in-first-round

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, HomeTeam said:

These knee jerk reactions have got to stop. Can we please just wait a few years before we start crowning/ condemning these kids. 

 

All we know, is that Allen has been the right fit for the city of Buffalo and at this point that is all you can ask for. 

 

This is a good post. The problem is that Bills fans (myself included) have knee jerk reactions because the Media has at various times crowned each of the 2018 QB’s god, while determining that Allen is a bust who will never amount to anything. Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, and Rosen all get the benefit of the doubt and time, Allen gets slammed. 

 

So it feels good to see the hype machine eat itself. 

 

It feels good to see Mayfield being a walking piece of *****. (Albeit a small one)

 

It feels good to see Rosen benched for a mediocre, bipolar QB after being given up on as soon as his team could.

 

It feels good to see Darnold auditioning for ghostbusters on national tv. 

 

 

You’re right that we’re a couple years from knowing the whole story- the big issue is that the media at large has written off Allen, while taking a “wait and see” approach to these other guys who are playing as a whole, worse than Allen.

[Bangarang]

56 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Jackson stat line vs the Seahawks was 9/20 143 yds, 0/0, 1 sack, 116 yards rushing  1 TD and 2 fumbles.

 

If that was Allens stat line 75% of this board would be calling for his benching and saying Barkley should be the starter going forward. Heck there were some calling for that during the Dolphins first half.  

The other 25% would be praising him as our savior just for being involved in the win and arguing how he had several drops from receivers.

[dollars 2 donuts]

7 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

This is a good post. The problem is that Bills fans (myself included) have knee jerk reactions because the Media has at various times crowned each of the 2018 QB’s god, while determining that Allen is a bust who will never amount to anything. Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, and Rosen all get the benefit of the doubt and time, Allen gets slammed. 

 

So it feels good to see the hype machine eat itself. 

 

It feels good to see Mayfield being a walking piece of *****. (Albeit a small one)

 

It feels good to see Rosen benched for a mediocre, bipolar QB after being given up on as soon as his team could.

 

It feels good to see Darnold auditioning for ghostbusters on national tv. 

 

 

You’re right that we’re a couple years from knowing the whole story- the big issue is that the media at large has written off Allen, while taking a “wait and see” approach to these other guys who are playing as a whole, worse than Allen.

 

 

Simply outstanding, WD.

 

 

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, HomeTeam said:

These knee jerk reactions have got to stop. Can we please just wait a few years before we start crowning/ condemning these kids. 

 

All we know, is that Allen has been the right fit for the city of Buffalo and at this point that is all you can ask for. 

 

This!

Darnold was awful last night but Gase did him no favours - not many screens, slants, hot reads just longer developing routes as if he was play calling for Peyton in the Colts heyday. Plus Darnold vs Belly = no contest. Even when he had max protection with 2 TEs and a full backfield Sam was suckered into making the obvious protection calls based on Bill's pre-snap look - as if Bill would be so obvious as to do what a 22 year old QB would expect post snap. To me this signals Gase's inability to prepare for and make necessary adjustments. He's really terrible.

BB also effectively messed with Allen's mind but overall I feel that Josh and the Bills O did better and could possibly have made things interesting (unlike last nights game) in the 4th quarter if Allen had not been concussed. 

[HomeTeam]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

This is a good post. The problem is that Bills fans (myself included) have knee jerk reactions because the Media has at various times crowned each of the 2018 QB’s god, while determining that Allen is a bust who will never amount to anything. Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, and Rosen all get the benefit of the doubt and time, Allen gets slammed. 

 

So it feels good to see the hype machine eat itself. 

 

It feels good to see Mayfield being a walking piece of *****. (Albeit a small one)

 

It feels good to see Rosen benched for a mediocre, bipolar QB after being given up on as soon as his team could.

 

It feels good to see Darnold auditioning for ghostbusters on national tv. 

 

 

You’re right that we’re a couple years from knowing the whole story- the big issue is that the media at large has written off Allen, while taking a “wait and see” approach to these other guys who are playing as a whole, worse than Allen.

That comment genuinely made me laugh. Bravo.

 

I understand you (and many others) feeling the need to stand up for Josh. I also feel the same way at times. The thing is though, what the media thinks has no bearing on whether Josh will become a franchise quarterback. Their opinion (and ours) means absolutely nothing.

 

If Josh is the guy, he will put it all together and showcase it to the league. Then the media will naturally have to come around because they won't be able to deny the truth. Knowing this, we don't have to be so quick to run to his defense anytime there is a slight against him.

 

I'm optimistic that Josh can be the guy, we just have to be patient. 

[TheFunPolice]

We've seen that Allen is messy but clutch.... He kind of reminds me of Dak Prescott in that way

 

Allen (like Dak) can look terrible for long stretches, but then, when it's showtime, he gets it done most of the time.

 

Darnold (when he is on) looks like a polished passer. Then, when he is off the Jets have NO CHANCE at all. Total opposite. 

 

 

 

 

[ngbills]

Bills would be 5-1 with Darnold as QB. Lets stop with using the Bills record vs Jets record as the measuring stick. 

[Mr. SpacePuppy]

22 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Bills would be 5-1 with Darnold as QB. Lets stop with using the Bills record vs Jets record as the measuring stick. 

Bills would be 6-0 with Darnold

[TH3]

9 minutes ago, Mr. SpacePuppy said:

Bills would be 6-0 with Darnold

This concerns me

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, Mr. SpacePuppy said:

Bills would be 6-0 with Darnold

 

 

You have no way to know that but......

 

 

Bill might be 6-0 if not for a cheap shot to Allen’s head. He didn’t get a chance to finish that game, but it was looking encouraging. He was coming on late in the game. Again! 

[Mrbojanglezs]

14 hours ago, Gambit said:

Ummm, our Defense kept us in that game. Josh kept turning the ball over.

Josh was being aggressive pushing the ball down the field with bad decisions. He was not lofting up softies to no one like Darnold. 

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, HomeTeam said:

That comment genuinely made me laugh. Bravo.

 

I understand you (and many others) feeling the need to stand up for Josh. I also feel the same way at times. The thing is though, what the media thinks has no bearing on whether Josh will become a franchise quarterback. Their opinion (and ours) means absolutely nothing.

 

If Josh is the guy, he will put it all together and showcase it to the league. Then the media will naturally have to come around because they won't be able to deny the truth. Knowing this, we don't have to be so quick to run to his defense anytime there is a slight against him.

 

I'm optimistic that Josh can be the guy, we just have to be patient. 

 

Glad to brighten your day. ?

 

i agree with what you said. It’s just frustrating he doesn’t get a fair shake cause of draftniks thinking they’re sooo evolved.

[WideNine]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I agree with your post but I think all of these guys could have fit Buffalo.  There’s some narrative that Allen is a Buffalo guy more than other QBs. Not really sure why.  

 

I think many Buffalo fans feel like they can relate to Allen. His small town upbringing, his rocky road to the draft where he had to overcome a bit more personal adversity than most QBs that are groomed for D1 play from HS and end up on the NFL draft radar - turned down by so many colleges, having to spend time at a Jr. College before getting a shot at Wyoming,....

 

I think that is a story or something that has grown to a bit of a mythos around Allen that folks can likely more easily relate to than someone who was an exceptionally gifted athlete, who is groomed for a pro-sports future that unfolds as planned. Not saying that any of the other QBs could not have worked to build that relationship with fans.

 

He is a likable character who quips, "one NY team" and sticks around over his bi-week to take in Sabre's and HS games. He has done a lot to endear himself to the community so I do hope it works out for the Bills and for him.

[ngbills]

53 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

 

You have no way to know that but......

 

 

Bill might be 6-0 if not for a cheap shot to Allen’s head. He didn’t get a chance to finish that game, but it was looking encouraging. He was coming on late in the game. Again! 

Bit of a stretch. They had a good drive to start the half. Next drive was 3 and out. After that was an Allen Int. Next drive he got hurt and it was going to be another 3 and out potentially. 

[Allen2Moulds]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Simply outstanding, WD.

 

 

I 2nd that WD.

[MassHog]

16 hours ago, CLTbills said:

all you need to see.

can we get an updated photo after the Patriots game?

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

I think many Buffalo fans feel like they can relate to Allen. His small town upbringing, his rocky road to the draft where he had to overcome a bit more personal adversity than most QBs that are groomed for D1 play from HS and end up on the NFL draft radar - turned down by so many colleges, having to spend time at a Jr. College before getting a shot at Wyoming,....

 

I think that is a story or something that has grown to a bit of a mythos around Allen that folks can likely more easily relate to than someone who was an exceptionally gifted athlete, who is groomed for a pro-sports future that unfolds as planned. Not saying that any of the other QBs could not have worked to build that relationship with fans.

 

He is a likable character who quips, "one NY team" and sticks around over his bi-week to take in Sabre's and HS games. He has done a lot to endear himself to the community so I do hope it works out for the Bills and for him.

You can say the same for Mayfield. Also folks were saying Jackson, a Heisman winning trophy qb, shouldn’t even play qb in the NFL. I think that qualifies as doubting him.

 

i generally get what everyone is saying and I do think Allen is an awesome dude.  But it still comes down to how they play. Losman cleaned up Buffalo. EJ was a good dude who had a sneaker scavenger hunt.  Not of this really matters in the end if you aren’t good enough.  There are plenty of Buffalo guys if they are good enough. 

19 minutes ago, MassHog said:

can we get an updated photo after the Patriots game?

Stop with the win- loss records for qbs. So completely misleading. 

[WideNine]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You can say the same for Mayfield. Also folks were saying Jackson, a Heisman winning trophy qb, shouldn’t even play qb in the NFL. I think that qualifies as doubting him.

 

i generally get what everyone is saying and I do think Allen is an awesome dude.  But it still comes down to how they play. Losman cleaned up Buffalo. EJ was a good dude who had a sneaker scavenger hunt.  Not of this really matters in the end if you aren’t good enough.  There are plenty of Buffalo guys if they are good enough. 

 

 

I think Jackson has had more shade thrown on him than Allen and I don't think he is Kaep V2 - throws a much better ball especially while on the move.

 

I do think he does benefit from being in the right system with the right coach and that running QB's do have a shorter "life span" in the NFL, but success is success and he is getting wins so good for him. Not sure if Rosen is a broken toy or not, but definitely the opposite situation of being in the wrong systems at the wrong times.

 

I think Mayfield is a good fit for the Browns, but I think he would have wore out his welcome here rather quickly - just my own opinion.

 

...and you are right that being an awesome dude only takes one so far as a QB; you have to perform.

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

16 hours ago, CLTbills said:

all you need to see.

 

I believe Darnold is a magician...he is able to turn a loss against the Bills and a loss against the patriots into a single loss in 2019.

 

Man, the people supporting him are good!

[Dopey]

Here's why I say it's too early to write off Darnold or say which is better:

They were on par with each other in their rookie seasons in the way they played. Each showed flashes of potential and some issues to be worked on. He's only played 3 games this year so far, against 3 teams in the top 5 defensively. Allen and Darnold had bad games vs. NE. Darnold played worse, but he also didn't have our defense to keep him in the game. I've watched all 3 games that Darnold has played this year. He was weak from the mono against us(top 5 d) and then balled out vs. Dallas. He crapped the bed vs. the Pats, but so did Allen. Allen had one good drive and potentially another. Allen had a diaper on to save the bed, Darnold was butt naked. His team and coaching staff did him no favors. Our TEAM helped keep it close. Gase should be fired. I like Allen and am glad to have him, so please don't take my Allen comments to heart and personal. It's not like I'm talking about your wife, kids or your mama. Chill.

 

 

 

Dallas:

#5 in yds p/game allowed

#6 in ppg allowed

We already know about the Pats and Bills defense.

 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

Bit of a stretch. They had a good drive to start the half. Next drive was 3 and out. After that was an Allen Int. Next drive he got hurt and it was going to be another 3 and out potentially. 

 

I wish he had gone down and left a 4th and 2 based on field position....I would have gone for it. He tried a bit too hard again there, which I both admire and hate.  They were moving the ball again, and I like his 4th quarters. Again, we’ll never know. 

18 hours ago, teef said:

Young qbs are looking like young qbs. I wasn’t always as awesome as I am now. Some things take time 

 

Like a fine wine....or a rotten egg! 

[Boca BIlls]

3 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I think many Buffalo fans feel like they can relate to Allen. His small town upbringing, his rocky road to the draft where he had to overcome a bit more personal adversity than most QBs that are groomed for D1 play from HS and end up on the NFL draft radar - turned down by so many colleges, having to spend time at a Jr. College before getting a shot at Wyoming,....

 

I think that is a story or something that has grown to a bit of a mythos around Allen that folks can likely more easily relate to than someone who was an exceptionally gifted athlete, who is groomed for a pro-sports future that unfolds as planned. Not saying that any of the other QBs could not have worked to build that relationship with fans.

 

He is a likable character who quips, "one NY team" and sticks around over his bi-week to take in Sabre's and HS games. He has done a lot to endear himself to the community so I do hope it works out for the Bills and for him.

Anyone that wins here will make fans feel like they relate to them. See what happens if he stops winning or doesn't improve.