Was Josh Allen faster last season ?

[bills11]

Was watching clips from last season to this to see his progression and he seemed to have faster acceleration and top end speed last season he was just leaving linebackers in pure foot speed. Whereas this year when he takes off he seems a bit slower.

[ClemsonBills]

He is just running less. Which is good. Idc to see him running past linebackers if it results in a concussion.

[CuddyDark]

No. They're spying him like they did Tyrod last couple season with the Bills. Mush rush. Also they've said JA likes to run right so if you watch the pats game they put Collins on the right side of the offense in front of the RT and kept him there the entire game. If JA wanted to run right he'd run into Collins.

[atlbillsfan1975]

I don’t think so. Allen is now trying to read defenses which has caused him to pause. Josh is also running behind his linemen on designed draws better. Last year he was reading 1 maybe 2 options then it was head down and all out run. He has done a better  job of side stepping defenders in the pocket, reestablishing himself and making throws. He has also pump fakes linebackers to jump up and then deliver a throw.

I bet Josh could still out run the majority of linebackers in the league. 

[Teddy KGB]

All those trips to Popeyes are winning the war.   

[CuddyDark]

4 minutes ago, ClemsonBills said:

He is just running less. Which is good. Idc to see him running past linebackers if it results in a concussion.

He's actually running more.

[Gray Beard]

I think he is being more cautious. Head on a swivel. Thus not running full speed with reckless abandon. Yet he still got a concussion. 

[Stank_Nasty]

I personally think it’s because he’s much less decisive when he actually decides to take off. 

 

That hesitation is enough for people to get up to more speed to close in. I’m fine with it. But it’s gonna be a difference in a 10 yd scramble or getting snagged my a lineman or backer while

barely crossing LOS. 

[dous21]

its fine. I think they are coaching it out of him, which is good considering if they don't it will become ingrained in his mind that he has to take off at any sight of pressure. That is why we are witnessing bad interceptions. its going to be a bumpy ride to make Allen into a pocket passer. He didn't have the coaching some of these other guys did in school. 

 

he also needs to learn how to protect himself when running, which is part of the reason why coaches don't let him do it often anymore. 

[CuddyDark]

I don't understand why it's so hard to understand teams are playing him as a running QB. He's still running. He's actually running more than last year. He's not getting the big run because teams are spying him and trying to stop him from having big runs. They aren't turning their backs to him as much. They're mush rushing him and keeping him in front of them.

[Bangarang]

Too much beer slowing him down

[MassHog]

46 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

He's actually running more.

He's getting more called runs, but less scrambling for sure. I also dont think people realize that his rushing stats would be better if he wasnt taking 3 knees per game to close it out

[bills11]

48 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

No. They're spying him like they did Tyrod last couple season with the Bills. Mush rush. Also they've said JA likes to run right so if you watch the pats game they put Collins on the right side of the offense in front of the RT and kept him there the entire game. If JA wanted to run right he'd run into Collins.

Definitely but I was more just talking about his initial acceleration..it seemed like he had more explosive first step last year but I digress I could be wrong hard to say without numbers 

[Augie]

Faster than Kiko? YES! 

[BringBackOrton]

51 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

All those trips to Popeyes are winning the war.   

EJ’s final revenge.

[White Linen]

He's lost a step, I can tell.  It happens to every 23 year old. 

[MtlBillsFan]

I agree. I remember saying this to a friend week 1. And he replied Josh had 10 pounds extra this year... He seems a bit slower.

Edited October 12, 2019 by MtlBillsFan

[TroutDog]

19 minutes ago, White Linen said:

He's lost a step, I can tell.  It happens to every 23 year old. 

I remember mine, all those years ago. It was a precipitous decline. 

 

How I yearned for being 22 when I was 23. ? 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

All those trips to Popeyes are winning the war.   

I have to work on this myself, Popeyes is addicting.

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, CuddyDark said:

He's actually running more.

Are you special?

[Teddy KGB]

9 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I have to work on this myself, Popeyes is addicting.

 

I’ve had 3 spicy chicken sandwiches this month ???

[machine gun kelly]

He’s making better decisions at times.  I know turnovers suck, but he is acting smarter knowing when to throw it away, when to slide and keep from getting hurt.  I see progress in his reads, but he still falls at times to play the hero.  An example was trying to thread to Jones and having McCourtey pick him off when Brown wide open underneath over the middle.  He needs to keep progressing on these decisions, but I believe in him for now.

[Hebert19]

Blocking scheme.  Last year we blocked straight up...imagine a wall that is straight.  So when things broke down he could get past line before D could react.  This years scheme creates more of a typical pocket...do he has to run around the end so easier to spy him and cut him off.  

 

Better for passing worse for scrambling...as the spy can take easier angles

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I personally think it’s because he’s much less decisive when he actually decides to take off. 

 

That hesitation is enough for people to get up to more speed to close in. I’m fine with it. But it’s gonna be a difference in a 10 yd scramble or getting snagged my a lineman or backer while

barely crossing LOS. 

Exactly how I see it. And he's likely less decisive as he can sense coaches and all telling him not to run unless a must. He IS a superb threat on runs IMO he should still do it! Designed draws up the middle I'm not a big fan of. Way more likely to get tackled hard.

[Boatdrinks]

At times it looks that way. Teams are focusing on taking away alleys in the middle where he would often escape, so it’s most likely due to that. Not as much wide open space to really take off. 

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, CuddyDark said:

I don't understand why it's so hard to understand teams are playing him as a running QB. He's still running. He's actually running more than last year. He's not getting the big run because teams are spying him and trying to stop him from having big runs. They aren't turning their backs to him as much. They're mush rushing him and keeping him in front of them.

All of this. He does look slower, but that's only because defenses have taken away his preferred escape routes. He'll always be a mobile QB, but that's not gonna cut it in this league. He'll sink or swim based on his ability to throw the football.

[Stank_Nasty]

14 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Exactly how I see it. And he's likely less decisive as he can sense coaches and all telling him not to run unless a must. He IS a superb threat on runs IMO he should still do it! Designed draws up the middle I'm not a big fan of. Way more likely to get tackled hard.

right. a lot of his scrambles last year were when he was already running to avoid pressure outside of the pocket and was already heading into full throttle by the time he was crossing the LOS. that's just not he case this year. he's standing tall and trying to stay put... so when he does decide to bolt he's easier to close in on.

[Hebert19]

20 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

right. a lot of his scrambles last year were when he was already running to avoid pressure outside of the pocket and was already heading into full throttle by the time he was crossing the LOS. that's just not he case this year. he's standing tall and trying to stay put... so when he does decide to bolt he's easier to close in on.

Sure this contributes but the blocking scheme now hurts his ability to take off. 

[US Egg]

Was Josh Allen faster last season ?

 

.....if you're that concerned, buy him a gift certificate to Don Beebe's speed camp.

[White Linen]

I find this all very strange.  Usually NFL defenses don't make adjustments to a young QB learning to throw but has the ability to run.  

[JESSEFEFFER]

I think he is keeping his eyes down field longer while he is in the pocket or scrambling.  Thus, he has been slower to make the decision to become a runner.  

[Artem Lipatov]

I noticed the same. Last year he had 3 consecutive games with 100 yards runnung. He looked faster than defencemen. This year he hasn't big impressive runs. I think he'll be heavier and slower with age and turn into Big Ben. )) Big fat tough QB which is hard to tackle but he doesn't run much.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

He's actually running more.

 

Objectively, this isn't true.  He's running about the same amount.

 

Let's look at after his return from injury last season, which most people seem to herald as a milestone in JA's development as a passing QB. 

In 6 games, he rushed 13, 9, 9, 9, 5, and 9 times.  That's an average of 9 rushes per game and 79 ypg (but in 3 of the last 4 games, significantly less as teams started spying him)

 

This season so far, he's rushed 10, 7, 9, 5, and 10 times, for an average of 8 rushes per game and 32 ypg.

 

IMO, Josh doesn't have instant "fast twitch" acceleration so he gets faster when he breaks a long run, which he has yet to do this season.  I think there are two reasons for this:

 

1) Josh correctly "got the memo" that his job as the QB is to throw the football, not to lead the team in rushing yards

Last year after injury, average 30 passing attempts for 207 ypg, 51.9% completion (that's 16 completions per game)

This year so far, average 33 passing attempts for 224 ypg, 62.6% completion (that's 20 completions per game)

 

So 4 more completions for an extra 17 yds per game.  That's good.  That's what he's supposed to do, and it will hopefully continue to improve.

 

2) As part of that memo, Josh now rushes to extend the play and look for a pass, instead of taking off downfield (sometimes this is NOT good, but I think he'll learn)

 

3) There were times last year when Josh had a short pass or dump off, and he'd tuck it and take off (I think because he didn't trust himself to complete those passes).  Now he steps up in the pocket and throws 'em more often than not.  This is Huge for his development as a QB - "gotta hit the bunnies"

 

4) Teams have the memo that they better play Allen as a running QB 'cuz he does have wheels

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

I don't understand why it's so hard to understand teams are playing him as a running QB. He's still running. He's actually running more than last year. He's not getting the big run because teams are spying him and trying to stop him from having big runs. They aren't turning their backs to him as much. They're mush rushing him and keeping him in front of them.

Cuddly come on man he is not running more he is staying in the pocket more and not taking off downfield

[JESSEFEFFER]

On those last 3 runs he had against the Bengals on their game winning TD drive he looked pretty determined to gain yards and fast enough to do so.   Although, it could also be that the defense was gassed and slower.

[CuddyDark]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Objectively, this isn't true.  He's running about the same amount.

 

Let's look at after his return from injury last season, which most people seem to herald as a milestone in JA's development as a passing QB. 

In 6 games, he rushed 13, 9, 9, 9, 5, and 9 times.  That's an average of 9 rushes per game and 79 ypg (but in 3 of the last 4 games, significantly less as teams started spying him)

 

This season so far, he's rushed 10, 7, 9, 5, and 10 times, for an average of 8 rushes per game and 32 ypg.

 

IMO, Josh doesn't have instant "fast twitch" acceleration so he gets faster when he breaks a long run, which he has yet to do this season.  I think there are two reasons for this:

 

1) Josh correctly "got the memo" that his job as the QB is to throw the football, not to lead the team in rushing yards

Last year after injury, average 30 passing attempts for 207 ypg, 51.9% completion (that's 16 completions per game)

This year so far, average 33 passing attempts for 224 ypg, 62.6% completion (that's 20 completions per game)

 

So 4 more completions for an extra 17 yds per game.  That's good.  That's what he's supposed to do, and it will hopefully continue to improve.

 

2) As part of that memo, Josh now rushes to extend the play and look for a pass, instead of taking off downfield (sometimes this is NOT good, but I think he'll learn)

 

3) There were times last year when Josh had a short pass or dump off, and he'd tuck it and take off (I think because he didn't trust himself to complete those passes).  Now he steps up in the pocket and throws 'em more often than not.  This is Huge for his development as a QB - "gotta hit the bunnies"

 

4) Teams have the memo that they better play Allen as a running QB 'cuz he does have wheels

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to argue this with you because last time I argued with you I got banned because you were wrong. I'll just say if you want to invent your own stat, fine. Cherry picking numbers don't make it correct.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

I'm not going to argue this with you because last time I argued with you I got banned because you were wrong. I'll just say if you want to invent your own stat, fine. Cherry picking numbers don't make it correct.

 

Explaining exactly what I'm doing and why seems a lot different from "inventing my own stat" or cherry picking - but if you want to include all Allen's starts - 11 starts last year - he rushed 89 times, which happens to average 8 rushes per game - EXACTLY THE SAME number of rushes per game.  Wow, exactly the same number of rushes per game he's averaging this year. 

 

So what it looks like from here is you're making claims you can't back from any source about Allen rushing more this year, then turning to rudeness about "cherry picking" and "inventing" with the "ooooh, can't argue with the mean mod" card when you're called on it.

 

As to your claim about why you got banned: You are in fact arguing this with me, and being rather rude about it - you're just not troubling to back up your claims.  The last time you got banned, it involved another mod and had nothing to do with me.  The previous time I gave you a seat on the bench, it was for being asked to cite a source and responding that you could post whatever you want, not because I was wrong.

 

It's straight out of the Board Guidelines: " If you post breaking news - reference your sources! " but this is how you responded when asked politely to do so:

_______________________________________________________

Would you want the Bills to trade a high pick for Julio Jones and make him the highest paid WR?

CuddyDark replied to YoloinOhio's topic in The Stadium Wall

I can post whatever I want. Just because you don't like what I post doesn't mean I can't post it. If you want the source search for it. It's not hard to find.
____________________________________________________________________

 

Yep, that's right, you didn't post a source, you didn't say "I do have a source, but I can't give it", you had a little toddler tantrum "I can post whatever I want!"  I was surprised you didn't add on "You're not the Boss of me!"
 

I am putting this in public here because this is the second time you've done this and your public maligning on this theme has gone past being tiresome.  Because I'm a mod does not give you immunity from being called out when you say something wrong, but neither does it give you license to keep going like the Energizer Bunny with your false claims.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

All those trips to Popeyes are winning the war.   

 

Oh horseradish.  If you look at Josh, he doesn't look like a guy who's been dining at Popeyes.

[CuddyDark]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Listen up, Wise Guy.  The last time you got banned, it had nothing to do with me, everything to do with the way you were behaving, and involved another mod.

The previous time I gave you a seat on the bench, it was for being asked to cite a source and responding that you could post whatever you want, not because I was wrong.

 

It's straight out of the Board Guidelines: " If you post breaking news - reference your sources! " but this is how you responded when asked politely to do so:

_______________________________________________________

Would you want the Bills to trade a high pick for Julio Jones and make him the highest paid WR?

CuddyDark replied to YoloinOhio's topic in The Stadium Wall

I can post whatever I want. Just because you don't like what I post doesn't mean I can't post it. If you want the source search for it. It's not hard to find.
____________________________________________________________________

Yep, that's right, you didn't post a source, you didn't say "I do have a source, but I can't give it", you had a little toddler tantrum "I can post whatever I want!"  I was surprised you didn't add on "You're not the Boss of me!"
 

This is the second time you have misrepresented the reason you were banned to malign me. Straighten up, because it's gotten past tiresome. 

Read your damn warnings again before you spout off wrong gouge about them, or just take them to heart.

 

I am putting this in public here because, as I've said, this public maligning on this theme has gone past being tiresome.  What happens next is entirely in your court.

 

As to your claim, explaining exactly what I'm doing and why seems a lot different from "inventing my own stat" or cherry picking - but if you want to include all Allen's starts - 11 starts last year - he rushed 89 times, which happens to average 8 rushes per game - EXACTLY THE SAME number of rushes per game.  Wow, exactly the same number of rushes per game he's averaging this year. 

 

So what it looks like from here is you're making claims you can't back from any source about Allen rushing more this year, then turning to rudeness about "cherry picking" and "inventing" with the "ooooh, can't argue with the mean mod" card when you're called on it.

 

And you banned me before I could post the links I had for breaking news because you were wrong and didn't want to admit it. Luckily though someone posted a link just after I was banned.

 

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Posted March 10

It's all over the Steelers media. It's all over Pittsburgh. But feel free to ban people because you disagree with the facts.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Cuddly come on man he is not running more he is staying in the pocket more and not taking off downfield

 

Or another way to look at it, he is staying in the pocket on plays where he would have taken off last year and when he does run, it's a delayed decision because he's looking for a pass first.  So even if he's running the same amount (which per stats, he is), they're different runs.

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

And you banned me before I could post the links I had for breaking news because you were wrong and didn't want to admit it. Luckily though someone posted a link just after I was banned.

 

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Posted March 10

It's all over the Steelers media. It's all over Pittsburgh. But feel free to ban people because you disagree with the facts.

 

Asking for a source is not wrong.  But being unable to tell the truth here is a problem.