A Few Thoughts About the *Pats game, in no particular order

[Fixxxer]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep.

 

Perhaps they can swing a trade for AJ Green still.

 

18 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I’d rather have Diggs

 

I'd rather have Trent Williams.

[Jerome007]

Man people like to pile it on. Josh had a very bad start to the game, you could see the nervousness, bad accuracy, over throws - that was on him, not because of the Pats*. But then he was average, some bone head throws, some very good ones. You seem to forget he was facing a defense as good as any in the history of the NFL since the last playoffs, a defense that shut everybody this year AND the Chiefs and Rams, the two best offenses last year. He wasn't THAT bad, and let the kid have his growing pains.

 

Besides that first challenge (WTF was he thinking?), coaches were near the Cheats level. Except in preparation and fundamentals but the Grumpy One an crew have years of experience and stability over the Bills. It's been a long while since we'had such good coaches. McD is still fairly green.

[Virgil]

3 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:mcd= f

dabol= f

frazier= doesn't even rate

 

if this crap keeps up we're on our way to 6-10 and if mcd can't teach his goomba leslie how to bring it...like 20th century style , then they can both go. ok, i vented i'm out.

We lose by 6 at home, make Brady look pedestrian, and outperform them on offense, and you want to fire everyone?

 

We played a top tier defense and one of the best teams in the league. 

 

Turnovers killed us.  Not the coaches.  Daboll could’ve schemes a little better and we could’ve adjusted on the blocked punt.  
 

Those are player mistakes on the field, and only by two do them. 
 

Back off the ledge 

[Kelly the Dog]

5 minutes ago, Virgil said:

We lose by 6 at home, make Brady look pedestrian, and outperform them on offense, and you want to fire everyone?

 

We played a top tier defense and one of the best teams in the league. 

 

Turnovers killed us.  Not the coaches.  Daboll could’ve schemes a little better and we could’ve adjusted on the blocked punt.  
 

Those are player mistakes on the field, and only by two do them. 
 

Back off the ledge 

Daboll could have used Smith, Gore, Knox, McKenzie, Zay, etc a lot differently. I thought he had a bad game. Liked the Brown pass though although he threw it too short. 

[billsredneck1]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

We lose by 6 at home, make Brady look pedestrian, and outperform them on offense, and you want to fire everyone?

 

We played a top tier defense and one of the best teams in the league. 

 

Turnovers killed us.  Not the coaches.  Daboll could’ve schemes a little better and we could’ve adjusted on the blocked punt.  
 

Those are player mistakes on the field, and only by two do them. 
 

Back off the ledge 

we got outcoached. we should have seen / known what they were gonna do defensively because the entire world knew what belichek was gonna do. it's only been going on for 20 yrs. i'm not gonna make excuse for josh either. he looked like e.j manual today.  that's coaching...kinda like rushing 4 on 3rd down. who cares if brady completes a 5 yd pass as long as you lay the wood to him!. it just seems that nothing ever changes when we play these guys and so far we've played down to the level of our opponents and have been lucky to get a few wins. well that's gonna stop if this staff doesn't get their heads out of their a$$e$.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

15 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

we got out coached and gave a game away that we should have been able to win.  this was a jauronesque coaching effort with a team that could have/ should have won this game.

 

In a board full of stupid, THIS is the most mentally handicapped thing I've read all day.

 

Congratulations.

 

When the ***** did Jauron ever go for it TWICE on fourth and goal in a game?

 

You're bad, and you should feel bad.

 

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

We lose by 6 at home, make Brady look pedestrian, and outperform them on offense, and you want to fire everyone?

 

We played a top tier defense and one of the best teams in the league. 

 

Turnovers killed us.  Not the coaches.  Daboll could’ve schemes a little better and we could’ve adjusted on the blocked punt.  
 

Those are player mistakes on the field, and only by two do them. 
 

Back off the ledge 

  There is a reason that every last person here has time to vent on this board and that is none of us despite our raw emotionalism has what it takes to be a coach or player in the NFL.  Allen was perhaps a little too wired for this game but he will learn not to get too emotional.  Most people prior to kickoff were anticipating a loss because there remains quite a bit of work to be done in completing this team in terms of on field  performance and this is what we saw this afternoon.  Hurts more because we were very close to exceeding expectations but we are not hopelessly lost in the forest as some think we are.  The Titans are a beatable team so let both fans and team be looking forward and not focused back on a loss that really does not impact the season.  Twelve games remain and lets get as many W's as possible.

[fergie's ire]

46 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

Did he get canned? He should have been.

Look at the poster's user name.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, billsredneck1 said:

we got outcoached. we should have seen / known what they were gonna do defensively because the entire world knew what belichek was gonna do. it's only been going on for 20 yrs. i'm not gonna make excuse for josh either. he looked like e.j manual today.  that's coaching...kinda like rushing 4 on 3rd down. who cares if brady completes a 5 yd pass as long as you lay the wood to him!. it just seems that nothing ever changes when we play these guys and so far we've played down to the level of our opponents and have been lucky to get a few wins. well that's gonna stop if this staff doesn't get their heads out of their a$$e$.

You cannot possibly blame the defense at all in this game. They were insanely good. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You cannot possibly blame the defense at all in this game. They were insanely good. 

 

or the coaching.

Even though they failed on the 4th and goal with Barkley, I STILL love the call.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

or the coaching.

Even though they failed on the 4th and goal with Barkley, I STILL love the call.

 

I was totally against it. Game planning and defensive coaching was good. I didn't like in game decisions or a lot of Dabolls decisions. Knox needs to play. Gore was non existent in second half. Zay is worthless. Smith is a cog not a consistent contributor. 

[fansince88]

5 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Look at the poster's user name.

Saw his name but his original post is gone. 

[billsredneck1]

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

In a board full of stupid, THIS is the most mentally handicapped thing I've read all day.

 

Congratulations.

 

When the ***** did Jauron ever go for it TWICE on fourth and goal in a game?

 

You're bad, and you should feel bad.

 

i figured someone would come up with a lame take and use that word. you're no. 1 congrats...we'll maybe you're no.2..

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, billsredneck1 said:

i figured someone would come up with a lame take and use that word. you're no. 1 congrats...we'll maybe you're no.2..

 

 

Oh, really.

 

Point to me the game in which Jauron went for it twice on 4th and goal.

 

I'll wait.

 

[Buddy Hix]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

or the coaching.

Even though they failed on the 4th and goal with Barkley, I STILL love the call.

 

I wouldn't blame the coaching for this loss but congratulating the coaching staff after this game seems strange to me. For as good as McD seems to be in rallying the team and getting everyone to buy into his message, he is equally awful as a game manager. McD struggles mightily with clock/TO management and challenge calls.

[Matt_In_NH]

As far as Daboll and play calling, not sure what would have been different here.  But it is obvious the Pats strategy was to make Allen a pocket passer,  only allow Allen to escape back to the left, back to the right or straight back.   They kept the pocket formed and collapsed it, each guy keeping their position.  They did not want Allen to break contain or release up the middle.  Escape backwards is a disaster for Allen as it is when he makes a lot of mistakes.   Allen either could not find open guys or they were not open so he tried to force things resulting in sacks, fumbles and interceptions.  Ultimately I think we need to give the Pats D their due to a degree, they are very good...while at the same time recognizing the Bills moved the ball well at times and just made too many mistakes.

[iinii]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

 

6 - The Hit - I’m sorry, but personal fouls need to trump other penalties.  There’s just no way that hit shouldn’t be counteracted by a holding call.   On the stat sheet, the play never happened and it took out Allen.  In real speed, it’s hard to know true targeting. However, Allen was already wrapped up and he still took the shot.  Just add it to the list of reasons to hate those guys. 

Coach Dungy just said “Jones was just trying to make a tackle.” It wasn’t spearing a defenseless runner. Josh was running down field like a tight end and should expect to get lit up. I got one word for the young man, SLIDE!

[Ralonzo]

Quote

 Allen was having a dismal day before going down, completing 13-of-28 passes for 153 yards and three interceptions, adding five rushes for 26 yards and a touchdown. He also fumbled twice, but the Bills recovered one and the other was erased by penalty. Allen looked like he had no idea of the fundamentals of quarterback, namely refusing to throw the ball away. Bill Belichick is a nightmare matchup, but Allen once again showed he has miles to go before proving he is the Bills' answer under center.

rotoworld.com

 

Hot takes, they're not just for TSW anymore.

 

Meanwhile on NBC "All the haters on Baker Mayfield, he's just young, that's all"

 

4 minutes ago, iinii said:

Coach Dungy just said “Jones was just trying to make a tackle.” It wasn’t spearing a defenseless runner. Josh was running down field like a tight end and should expect to get lit up. I got one word for the young man, SLIDE!

 

Vontaze Burfict was just trying to make a tackle, the easiest way to wrap up is with your helmet, don'tcha know.

 

Fundamentals!

Edited September 30, 2019 by Ralonzo

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Tyrod might have won this game.  He wouldn’t have gotten us more than a few field goals, but he wouldn’t have turned it over.  

 

I was thinking the same thing. And no, I DON'T think Tyrod is better than Josh, but in a pitcher's duel like this one, his mentality is more likely to get the job done.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, WhoTom said:

 

I was thinking the same thing. And no, I DON'T think Tyrod is better than Josh, but in a pitcher's duel like this one, his mentality is more likely to get the job done.

 

 

 

Tyrod wouldn't have even attempted the pass that Josh completed to Knox in this game.

 

You know this.

 

 

[Virgil]

5 minutes ago, iinii said:

Coach Dungy just said “Jones was just trying to make a tackle.” It wasn’t spearing a defenseless runner. Josh was running down field like a tight end and should expect to get lit up. I got one word for the young man, SLIDE!

You can’t slide while you are being wrapped up by another defender.  
 

 

[billsredneck1]

20 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You cannot possibly blame the defense at all in this game. They were insanely good. 

yes they were due to individual talent and effort, but rushing 3 and 4 on critical passing plays is asinine. the pats brought it on every play from every direction and until we have a dc that's willing to do that, the result will always be the same. they do it to us every single time. they made rivers look like nathan in the playoffs. when will we ever wake up and do the same to them?

[DCbillsfan]

I saw both home games, Bengals and Pats.  I'm a Josh Allen fan but I'm discouraged by his decision making and his lack of protecting the ball.  The Bills are 3 - 1.  On to Tennessee.

[WhoTom]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Tyrod wouldn't have even attempted the pass that Josh completed to Knox in this game.

 

You know this.

 

 

 

I do, indeed, know that. But there are other ways in which TT might have won this battle of the defenses.

 

Ideally, I'd like a QB who's 90% Josh Allen and 10% Tyrod Taylor. I think he wins this game and makes the three previous wins blowouts.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, WhoTom said:

Ideally, I'd like a QB who's 90% Josh Allen and 10% Tyrod Taylor. I think he wins this game and makes the three previous wins blowouts.

 

Wait, are we talking about your hypothetical hybrid here, or Tuhrod?

[transient]

2 hours ago, TroutDog said:

The positive for me today? We held strong with the world champions, even with our turnovers!  Once we get Josh settled down, this will turn into a W in the future and a changing of the guard on the AFCE. 

 

I get this, but the counterpoint is how many times have you thought this same thing after a close Patriots*** loss.  They HAVE to start winning this game, or it's just more of the same, and it really should have started today.

[WhoTom]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Wait, are we talking about your hypothetical hybrid here, or Tuhrod?

 

HH.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, WhoTom said:

 

HH.

 

 

Ok, had me worried there for a moment.

 

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I think the first few years of Josh's career you have to look at him differently than any other QB. He's going to make mistakes. He had a bad game today for sure. He made numerous mistakes. But stats are worthless when evaluating him. He needs to make plays and win games right now, not have no turnovers or QB ratings. I would have loved to see him in the game in the last four minutes. 

 

I felt his discipline had been slipping the past few games, but he was able to do things in the end to recover. Not sure he was learning from that.

 

Like last year when he was knocked out of the lineup and came back more focused to improve, I am wondering if it takes getting really smacked in the mouth for Allen to respond and grow.

 

We will see.

[Hebert19]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

Talk about an emotional day.  You could see it on the field, on TSW, on social media.  This game felt like a mini-series with plot twists, theme changes, and was just an overall rollercoaster. 
 

To be clear, there is absolutely no way I can cover everything that happened in this game and I’m just going to cover the big things that stood out to me.  
 

1 - Allen - Allen played against a great defense today who has shut down opposing teams so far.  With that, Allen had a really bad game.  This is a game of defense, field position, and points were at a premium.  I don’t care what the completion percentage was or total yardage in this game.  I care about not hurting the team and taking care of the football.   Allen turned the ball over 4 times and was wildly inaccurate to me on deep throws, which he also took too often.   He under threw Zay that could’ve been a touchdown.  He also was off on the shorter passes outside of the scoring drive.   
 

Worst of all, I don’t know what it’s going to take to get him to stop throwing off his back foot into traffic.  Of all teams, not against the Pats man.  Granted, one of them should have been overturned, but he still overall hurt the team more than he helped.  
 

Again, I don’t care if he had more 3 and outs and they punted.  It’s the short field position that gave them a TD and field goal.  You just can’t make these mistakes and it seems to be getting worse.  Also, add in the sack that knocked us back 5 yards with the ensuing missed FG, and it’s another play that hurts us. 
 

2 - Gore - Great game by him today, eclipsing the 100 and breaking 15k yards for his career.  He definitely showed up today, showing great field vision and power.  I would have liked to have seen him utilized more. 
 

3 - Lee Smith - I know you can’t write a guy off based off one game, but 4 penalties in a defensive battle just isn’t okay. Between that and some dropped passes this season, I really hope to see Knox take more of his snaps.  Speaking of Knox, he came up big twice and I look forward to seeing more from him.  
 

4 - “I know if I am going to have any life anymore it is because, I am still willing to fight, and die for that inch because that is what living is. The six inches in front of your face.”

 

5 - Overall defense - Another game where the stat box doesn’t tell the whole story.  If I told you we didn’t get a sack on Brady, you might think we got picked apart.  Quite the opposite.  Outside of the deep pass down the sideline to White, where we inexplicably only rushed 3, our defense was amazing.  I mean, absolutely amazing.  These guys never let up and Brady looked pedestrian.  The INT by Hyde was a beautiful play and they made this a game for us. It’s frustrating that we couldn’t reward them with a win, but you have to be inspired by how they played.  
 

6 - The Hit - I’m sorry, but personal fouls need to trump other penalties.  There’s just no way that hit shouldn’t be counteracted by a holding call.   On the stat sheet, the play never happened and it took out Allen.  In real speed, it’s hard to know true targeting. However, Allen was already wrapped up and he still took the shot.  Just add it to the list of reasons to hate those guys

 

7 - Daboll - This is hard for me because I’m not an Xs and Os guy.  It seems like the Pats ran the same defense they ran all season and what they did against us last year.  With that, it seems like we were completely unprepared for them today.  It’s not just getting shut down, it’s the way we were shut down.  We looked confused.  Also, where was McKenzie in this game and all the stretch/sweeps we’ve been running?  Then, we score via hurry up and then abandon it on the next drive.   The trick play was nice, and I don’t blame Yeldon there as it wasn’t an easy catch.  Overall, Daboll needs to be better in this game 

 

8 - Special Teams - Haven’t talked about these guys in a while.  That blocked punt for an INT proved to be the ball game.  That TD was the difference maker in points and probably changes future decisions.  The gunner came in free, which can’t happen.  Hausch’s miss also changed future decisions, even though it should’ve been 5 yards closer.  
 

Again, in a defensive battle like this, you need consistency, not a loss of 10 points. 

 

9 -  What If - There are so many things to talk about here.  Should they have taken the points on the short field goals vs going for it?  I say yes, besides the Allen TD. Allen on the field makes one yard seem like a given.  With Barkley, it’s different.  You never know what’s going to happen next based upon a decision, but in a defensive battle, I think you alway take the points.  We left 6 on the board that was the final difference maker, but then Allen did score.  Who knows. 
 

10 - McD - We lost 16-10 to a great team at home and could have won it on our last drive.  That’s the end result and that’s what you grade off of.  The challenges by McD hurt as we didn’t have any timeouts at the end.  Challenging offensive PI was tough for me and I think he needs to take his chances on more than 50/50 calls.  I get perspective, but neither were clear calls. 
 

While we didn’t win, you have to love how crap we make Brady look in these games.  I know there’s no morale victories and this sucks.  But these aren’t the same losses as the past decade.  If we have a turnover free offense, we win this game to me. 
 

Bonus:

-What happened to Ty on the last offensive play?   He left the edge unguarded 

-Let’s see how the league handles the hit on Allen

-How was that not intentional grounding by Brady?

 

 

Big day guys.  We beat the spread.  We gave up 3 points in the last 3 quarters. We didn’t blow up like in the past after a terrible first quarter.  Allen may be out next week and his continued poor choices have to make you hesitate.  But still 3-1 in a wide open season. 
 

Go Bills!

Never mind intentional grounding how about the non facemask call on allen.  Wtf?

[Coach Tuesday]

52 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

i'm still butt hurt so i'll keep it short.  defensively, the pats did exactly what i/everbody else, knew they were gonna do and we were too stupid  to do it to them. we needed to play the defense against them that they played against us for the f...ing umpteenth time in a row.

 

josh allen is making fitz look like a hall of famer. what the hell is between his ears? especially on 3rd down and in fg range? i for one will be relieved to see barkley for a game or two before we end up at 500 in the next couple of weeks. there's just no excuse for the sacks.   however, they were doing to us what frazier can't seem to comprehend that , that's what we should have been doing against them. if it weren't for individual talent and effort on our defense, a fire frazier bill board should be up on the 90.

 

mcd and his time outs/ challenges.....don't get me started.

 

lee smith on the field as much as he was.(self explanatory)... pathetic. we're having smith in the passing game and not going 4/5 wide?  bring back chan. the offensive lineup was conservatively stupid and starting ford at rt must have been ralph from above wanting to see a high pick start. my God do these guys not have film from previous weeks?

 

we got out coached and gave a game away that we should have been able to win.  this was a jauronesque coaching effort with a team that could have/ should have won this game.

 

mcd= f

dabol= f

frazier= doesn't even rate

 

if this crap keeps up we're on our way to 6-10 and if mcd can't teach his goomba leslie how to bring it...like 20th century style , then they can both go. ok, i vented i'm out.

Your issue is with.... Frazier?  

[Ralonzo]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Everything written there is true.

 

Allen has a ***** ton of physical talent but it doesn't mean jack squat if he can't get through his reads quickly, make the right decisions(or not absolutely god awful ones), and throw accurate footballs. 

 

*****, Garden Minshew looks better than him at this point.

 

Did you miss last week when Allen was "the next great QB on the rise"? Now he's Jamarcus Jr. Next time he wins he's back to Elway Lite.

 

Clickbait is no way to get your info son

[CSBill]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

This was a tough game to write about.

 

Essentially, our young, inexperienced, talented QB had a horrible game and then got hurt against the best team in football. There were a couple of bright and not so bright spots along the way, but the above is what happened.

 

No need for fans to panic imo.

 

This!

 

[Virgil]

26 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

yes they were due to individual talent and effort, but rushing 3 and 4 on critical passing plays is asinine. the pats brought it on every play from every direction and until we have a dc that's willing to do that, the result will always be the same. they do it to us every single time. they made rivers look like nathan in the playoffs. when will we ever wake up and do the same to them?

Jane, you ignorant slut. 
 

We gave up 10 points, and that’s from turnovers and bad field position.  They punted 9 times and that was one of Brady’s worst stat lines in his career.  

 

Sorry they couldn’t do more for you 

[Bakin]

The two best defences in the league beat each other to bits. 

Was a great game. 

Why the hell was Josh holding the ball FOREVER???

Take off or throw the ball away. 

I think this annoyed the crap out of me more than anything today. 

 

Ah well, so we go 15-1. 

[DuckyBoys]

This was a tough one to watch  Anyone else feel like the game took 4 hours?  Felt like walking in quicksand  Way I see it Josh Allen is either going to be a superstar or going to be the should have been.  If Daboll can somehow coach some situational football sense into him we'll be set.  I just dont know if you can fix horrible decision making.  Josh needs to watch tape on jameis winstons career and see where he could be headed  I'd make him watch a loop tape of all of the brutal pick 6's Winston has made Bucs fans endure.  Frustrating day for sure

[Kelly the Dog]

5 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Jane, you ignorant slut. 
 

We gave up 10 points, and that’s from turnovers and bad field position.  They punted 9 times and that was one of Brady’s worst stat lines in his career.  

 

Sorry they couldn’t do more for you 

It's insane. That was one of the best defensive performances I've seen in years. 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I think the first few years of Josh's career you have to look at him differently than any other QB. He's going to make mistakes. He had a bad game today for sure. He made numerous mistakes. But stats are worthless when evaluating him. He needs to make plays and win games right now, not have no turnovers or QB ratings. I would have loved to see him in the game in the last four minutes. 

The thing is, the running stuff is what makes him good, but it was also always the thing that was going to get him killed. He plays recklessly when running, and it was just a matter of time before a hit like today happened. It won’t be the last.

Edited September 30, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I think the first few years of Josh's career you have to look at him differently than any other QB. He's going to make mistakes. He had a bad game today for sure. He made numerous mistakes. But stats are worthless when evaluating him. He needs to make plays and win games right now, not have no turnovers or QB ratings. I would have loved to see him in the game in the last four minutes. 

 

Well said. 

 

Let’s not forget that Belichick has some ridiculous record against young QBs (I think it’s like 18-2 against QBs in their 1st or 2nd years). JA will learn from this and get better. He has shown constant growth. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

Lots of stuff during this game, but the overwhelmingly obvious thing is that Zay Jones is a horrible receiver.

Simply impossible for him to get any separation, wins zero contested balls and makes zero catches unless the ball is in his wheelhouse.

Incapable of breaking up an int, which should be in any wideouts skill set.

 

If he was an NBA player he would have zero rebounds in his career.

I feel the same way about him as I did about Kelvin Benjamin his last few games as a Bill.

Can't wait until he is gone.

Cut your loses and do the Duke for Zay switch....its time