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Virgil

A Few Thoughts About the *Pats game, in no particular order

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Just now, Virgil said:


I’d rather have Diggs

Or Diggs. I'd take either honestly. Need someone else outside.

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7 minutes ago, Virgil said:


2 were deep throws, one was 20 yards down field into triple coverage.  
 

One was to Brown, can’t remember the other.  


Like against the Bengals, this one pissed me off the most.  They only had one safety, which is where we throw the pass too.  
 

I just don’t get it 

My son in law is a Pats fan. I was chatting with his dad after the game. I personally have not seen a Pats game before today. He claimed they keep getting passes into that coverage. The tripple coverage thst is. He said he doesnt understand what QBs are seeing but they are not seing the coverage

 

Edited by fansince88

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Just now, corta765 said:

 

The first few years are the best chance to load up and go for it when his contract is light . I really want Josh to be the guy but you can’t ignore how bad he was today and the fact his mistakes aren’t going down or away.

 

And that’s why you get him an over the top best in league supporting cast this year and next year. 

 

As as he matures and his pay goes up he loses a weapon or two but hopefully it balances out 

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1. In a game where the defense played so well it is hard to criticize, but there is no pass rush. That will hurt us at some point.  Murphy is an absolute bust and waste of money.  Terrible signing by Beane.  Lawson should be starting. Hughes' play has dropped off.  He is still getting some pressure but is not winning many one on one battles.  Oliver was a no show today

2. Knox is the best talent they have had at TE in years.  There is no reason he should not be getting the majority of snaps at TE.  Most TEs can't block worth anything anymore.  I don't care about blocking in the run game.  Knox is a weapon and Smith is an absolute liability.

3. I was right - they should have kept Mills.  Nsekhe is horrible.  He has always been a journeymen and I said so in the off-season.  I really liked the Ford pick but it's obvious he does not have the feet to play OT in the NFL.  Mills was not very good but he was better than these two.

4. Dawkins - he has regressed even more so than last year.  He and Zay are looking worse with every passing week.  

5. Zay - this guy just can't play.  He never makes the great play.  It's time to let him go.  He had the chance to break up at least one of those interceptions if not both.  If he wasn;t drafted by this regime he would not have made the roster.  

6. The refs were ok in this game.  They missed a couple calls but they called a decent game.  So tired of all the posters saying the refs benefit certain teams.  This team has had problems with penalties every year under McD and it's not getting any better.  I really don't know if a guy tries to pick a player but doesn't actually make contact if that is a penalty.  They spotted the ball correctly on that dumb challenge by McD.  They missed a facemask on the final drive before the half and I think they missed a guy jumping over the LOS on the FG attempt.  But most of the calls against the Bills were accurate.  

7. Barkley looked terrible.  I thought he would be better and if they did not get points in the first half I was advocating for him to start the second half. 

8.  I think sitting Josh for a series or two was the right move. He has to learn to protect the ball and if that means embarrassing him on national TV by getting benched so what.  He was the QB I wanted but he is not getting better.  Everyone hated TT because of his lack of clutch play well now we have the opposite.  Throwing off his back foot and not throwing the ball away should be correctable things.  As much as I like the kid, he was as bad as Peterman in San Diego. 

9. Special teams - again I told you so.  The coach means nothing. It's all the players.  Crossman is gone and they are worse.  Terrible blocking, another bad penalty for a block in the back.  Roberts is nice but that is the player not the scheme.  

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15 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Yes, we know...thanks.  Allen will eventually learn; he's the type of player that will take this kind of performance personally.  Josh knows he sucked and the defense played spectacularly and he let the team down; that will weigh on him.  I'm not concerned at this point.

Yeah, you said the same about Rob Johnson, Fitz, Losman, EJ, and Tyrod... 

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28 minutes ago, Virgil said:


In fairness, not many got separation today.  
 

If Josh doesn’t underthrow him on the deep ball, people are probably posting how Zay has finally arrived this season

 

He is terrible.

There is simply no denying it.

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My observations are 

 

1 I don’t want to see lee smith on the field unless it is a dire situation. Let the rookies play and figure it out. They have impressed so far. He had 1 job today and he failed miserably at it. 

2 I have given zay the benefit of the doubt up until this week. I have finally soured on him and I want him to be a surprise cut for this week. Give opportunities to foster Williams and McKenzie the rest of the way out depending on the situation. He should have knocked down or made a play on that floating ball that was intercepted. He can’t catch unless it’s right to him and he isn’t a physical wr in the red zone. He serves no purpose. And Frankly I’ve had enough of him and his wacky family making comments about buffalo. 

3. Allen is a smart kid but man is he stubborn as an ox. I’m glad Daboll lit into him. He’s acts like an arrogant child that thinks he knows more than his parents. He says all the right things but then he just does what he wants. I know we coulda used him late in the game but at what point do you bench him when he’s just playing like a selfish ####### out there. Josh it’s a team game, let the game come to you and stop trying to win the game on every play. 

4. How many more times are we going to lose games because of special teams? Neal has had a solid year until he takes a bone headed penalty late in the game when field position matters. How many more times are we going to see what the patriots did on that block this year before the punter grows a pair of nuts and throws that pass to a wide open wide receiver. Missed fg again, hate seeing that on a nice day and inside 50 yards. 

5. Defense was lights out and I tip my hat to them, amazing game. I did notice Phillips on the field a lot and barely noticed Oliver. Was he even playing? 

6.patriots player should have been ejected for that hit. It was a super dirty shot and someone on the team should have gone up and smacked him in the mouth. Hate seeing that happen and no one backs up your qb. Looking at you lee smith, although I don’t know if he was on the field for that play. 

7. Refs were all around terrible but that’s par for the course when you play the patriots. 

8. Loved that McDermott went for the win in the final minutes. Offense had a hard time moving the ball and scoring and when you got the backup in and you are on the 2 you go for it when playing the patriots. Plus Hauska already missed one. Hard to trust at this point. 

9. Let Barkley play next week and give josh a break. no reason to rush him back that’s why you pay a back up qb. They need to be able to be ready once or twice a year and maybe Allen can learn a thing or two about not playing hero ball. 

10. Hated that Allen really seemed over amped for his game. Seems like the offense was treating this as their Super Bowl but instead Allen ***** himself. Move on to the next one and put this one in the rear view as fast as possible. 

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20 minutes ago, Virgil said:


He just has to stop these back foot throws into coverage.  It’s scaring me how he isn’t learning 

I agree with you ; it is becoming a red flag for my hope regarding Josh. He did the same things last year , in the preseason, in the prior three games and each time he has pointed out in press conferences how he is learning and won’t do the same thing again , only to exactly repeat the same obvious errors. I think it’s possible to now begin to look at this as a trend that to me suggests a possible processing error that he may struggle to overcome.  Let me suggest a medical analogy since that’s what I am familiar with. In medicine students , residents , etc are given a “ playbook “ on how to deal with something like trauma patients.( advanced trauma life support , ATLS). You learn the plays/ algorithms so that you are able to perform under high stress, life/ death scenarios and you go over them until you can do those protocols almost instinctively. Before you ar cleared for the real world you have to demonstrate that you can perform under stressful , unpredictable situations.  You are tested while people are screaming or nurses are panicking or not listening etc. , to be sure you can process the situation despite chaos with someone’s life on the line. Some physicians excel under these conditions, like surgeons or er Drs who are amazing people that thrive despite anything being thrown at them. However, some students/ residents just fold or don’t perform well under that type of rapid processing.  They are still gifted ,  bright people , but they gravitate to specialties that are less likely to require that type of practice / processing and they are usually not found as career ER Drs. 
So I was watching Josh struggle today and he was holding and holding and holding the ball, or he was trying to “ process” what was going on leading him to finally Have to throw  off his back foot , or wait until someone was grabbing him before he tried to use his legs or throw the ball away ( he just struggles to throw a ball away voluntarily) .  He looks confused and it’s no secrets Dabol was frustrated with his decisions on the sidelines, suggesting he already expects more from Josh. I am beginning to have concerns that despite being a gifted, bright athlete, Josh may have issues processing under fire and sometimes people just aren’t fast processors.  Not everyone can be a surgeon or ER dr!  He may be a very good QB , but he may never overcome his puzzling tendencies for poor rapid processing.  You don’t expect a senior resident with years under their belt to make errors that first year medical students make; and they won’t be allowed to continually to make this same errors and expect a successful career. I Expect more from Josh than continuing to make errors that frankly many good college QBS  get over as they gain experience ( the buckeyes qb is young but has 0 ints this year, some guys just are different ), and I don’t expect to keep hearing how he says he won’t make the same mistakes while We are watching his actions defy that logic.  I love the guy for so many reasons but I am getting concerned. His comebacks are usually associated with his athleticism, many times late he is making more plays running that going thru progressions so even those great comebacks aren’t totally alleviating the questions surrounding his baffling poor choices at times.    Still have hopes but more guarded in my optimism. 
 

Also , lots of coaching errors continue with Mcd. Guy has no success at challenges and that affects his situational management. We lost all the time outs,  Josh should have been coached to not burn that last time out just saving a procedure penalty ( 5 yards there not important compared to the to) , something the Pats excel at.  We were in the game yet refused to take 3 when there was a lot of time left and points were obviously hard to come by. Mcd seems to lack an ability to solve the offensive lack of production. We keep seeing Zay fail , Smith on the field while Knox keeps making huge plays with very limited chances, no use of McKenzie ( again while Zay does nothing and I would argue even contributes to interceptions as he never adjusts to break up an interception while not catching in the first place lol !). He was out coached with the blocked punt that was the margin of victory and he was lucky a second punt wasn’t blocked as they didn’t adjust after first block.  Doing the challenges with the first down as he questioned forward progress and then questioned offensive Pi at a time when we we already down a tie out or two.   Just areas that Mcd is perhaps showing us glances of his talent ceiling.  He is a good coach , seems slow to change strategies at times and his management errors contributed to the loss almost as much as Josh did today. Love the D and hope it doesn’t get wasted and that Mcd will actually try to change things not working. Go Bills ! despite it all they were in it till the end which is encouraging at least ! 

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The good news:  The defense was flat-out awesome.  I've never seen Brady look worse.

 

The bad news: This game is proof that the Pats aren't going away after Brady retires, as long as Belichick is still on the other sideline .  Brady stunk today and they still beat us on our home field.  

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2 minutes ago, Tiffany980 said:

Yeah, you said the same about Rob Johnson, Fitz, Losman, EJ, and Tyrod... 

 

I did?  It was apparent pretty early that RJ, Losman, and EJ (all rookies) would struggle.  Josh has a much higher ceiling than any of those guys.  It was also obvious that Fitz would end up letting us down with his penchant for pick 6's.  Tyrod while a great athlete and protected the ball, would not throw to a receiver unless he was "college open."

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1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Talk about an emotional day.  You could see it on the field, on TSW, on social media.  This game felt like a mini-series with plot twists, theme changes, and was just an overall rollercoaster. 
 

To be clear, there is absolutely no way I can cover everything that happened in this game and I’m just going to cover the big things that stood out to me.  
 

1 - Allen - Allen played against a great defense today who has shut down opposing teams so far.  With that, Allen had a really bad game.  This is a game of defense, field position, and points were at a premium.  I don’t care what the completion percentage was or total yardage in this game.  I care about not hurting the team and taking care of the football.   Allen turned the ball over 4 times and was wildly inaccurate to me on deep throws, which he also took too often.   He under threw Zay that could’ve been a touchdown.  He also was off on the shorter passes outside of the scoring drive.   
 

Worst of all, I don’t know what it’s going to take to get him to stop throwing off his back foot into traffic.  Of all teams, not against the Pats man.  Granted, one of them should have been overturned, but he still overall hurt the team more than he helped.  
 

Again, I don’t care if he had more 3 and outs and they punted.  It’s the short field position that gave them a TD and field goal.  You just can’t make these mistakes and it seems to be getting worse.  Also, add in the sack that knocked us back 5 yards with the ensuing missed FG, and it’s another play that hurts us. 
 

2 - Gore - Great game by him today, eclipsing the 100 and breaking 15k yards for his career.  He definitely showed up today, showing great field vision and power.  I would have liked to have seen him utilized more. 
 

3 - Lee Smith - I know you can’t write a guy off based off one game, but 4 penalties in a defensive battle just isn’t okay. Between that and some dropped passes this season, I really hope to see Knox take more of his snaps.  Speaking of Knox, he came up big twice and I look forward to seeing more from him.  
 

4 - “I know if I am going to have any life anymore it is because, I am still willing to fight, and die for that inch because that is what living is. The six inches in front of your face.”

 

5 - Overall defense - Another game where the stat box doesn’t tell the whole story.  If I told you we didn’t get a sack on Brady, you might think we got picked apart.  Quite the opposite.  Outside of the deep pass down the sideline to White, where we inexplicably only rushed 3, our defense was amazing.  I mean, absolutely amazing.  These guys never let up and Brady looked pedestrian.  The INT by Hyde was a beautiful play and they made this a game for us. It’s frustrating that we couldn’t reward them with a win, but you have to be inspired by how they played.  
 

6 - The Hit - I’m sorry, but personal fouls need to trump other penalties.  There’s just no way that hit shouldn’t be counteracted by a holding call.   On the stat sheet, the play never happened and it took out Allen.  In real speed, it’s hard to know true targeting. However, Allen was already wrapped up and he still took the shot.  Just add it to the list of reasons to hate those guys

 

7 - Daboll - This is hard for me because I’m not an Xs and Os guy.  It seems like the Pats ran the same defense they ran all season and what they did against us last year.  With that, it seems like we were completely unprepared for them today.  It’s not just getting shut down, it’s the way we were shut down.  We looked confused.  Also, where was McKenzie in this game and all the stretch/sweeps we’ve been running?  Then, we score via hurry up and then abandon it on the next drive.   The trick play was nice, and I don’t blame Yeldon there as it wasn’t an easy catch.  Overall, Daboll needs to be better in this game 

 

8 - Special Teams - Haven’t talked about these guys in a while.  That blocked punt for an INT proved to be the ball game.  That TD was the difference maker in points and probably changes future decisions.  The gunner came in free, which can’t happen.  Hausch’s miss also changed future decisions, even though it should’ve been 5 yards closer.  
 

Again, in a defensive battle like this, you need consistency, not a loss of 10 points. 

 

9 -  What If - There are so many things to talk about here.  Should they have taken the points on the short field goals vs going for it?  I say yes, besides the Allen TD. Allen on the field makes one yard seem like a given.  With Barkley, it’s different.  You never know what’s going to happen next based upon a decision, but in a defensive battle, I think you alway take the points.  We left 6 on the board that was the final difference maker, but then Allen did score.  Who knows. 
 

10 - McD - We lost 16-10 to a great team at home and could have won it on our last drive.  That’s the end result and that’s what you grade off of.  The challenges by McD hurt as we didn’t have any timeouts at the end.  Challenging offensive PI was tough for me and I think he needs to take his chances on more than 50/50 calls.  I get perspective, but neither were clear calls. 
 

While we didn’t win, you have to love how crap we make Brady look in these games.  I know there’s no morale victories and this sucks.  But these aren’t the same losses as the past decade.  If we have a turnover free offense, we win this game to me. 
 

Bonus:

-What happened to Ty on the last offensive play?   He left the edge unguarded 

-Let’s see how the league handles the hit on Allen

-How was that not intentional grounding by Brady?

 

 

Big day guys.  We beat the spread.  We gave up 3 points in the last 3 quarters. We didn’t blow up like in the past after a terrible first quarter.  Allen may be out next week and his continued poor choices have to make you hesitate.  But still 3-1 in a wide open season. 
 

Go Bills!

i'm still butt hurt so i'll keep it short.  defensively, the pats did exactly what i/everbody else, knew they were gonna do and we were too stupid  to do it to them. we needed to play the defense against them that they played against us for the f...ing umpteenth time in a row.

 

josh allen is making fitz look like a hall of famer. what the hell is between his ears? especially on 3rd down and in fg range? i for one will be relieved to see barkley for a game or two before we end up at 500 in the next couple of weeks. there's just no excuse for the sacks.   however, they were doing to us what frazier can't seem to comprehend that , that's what we should have been doing against them. if it weren't for individual talent and effort on our defense, a fire frazier bill board should be up on the 90.

 

mcd and his time outs/ challenges.....don't get me started.

 

lee smith on the field as much as he was.(self explanatory)... pathetic. we're having smith in the passing game and not going 4/5 wide?  bring back chan. the offensive lineup was conservatively stupid and starting ford at rt must have been ralph from above wanting to see a high pick start. my God do these guys not have film from previous weeks?

 

we got out coached and gave a game away that we should have been able to win.  this was a jauronesque coaching effort with a team that could have/ should have won this game.

 

mcd= f

dabol= f

frazier= doesn't even rate

 

if this crap keeps up we're on our way to 6-10 and if mcd can't teach his goomba leslie how to bring it...like 20th century style , then they can both go. ok, i vented i'm out.

Edited by billsredneck1
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1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I did?  It was apparent pretty early that RJ, Losman, and EJ (all rookies) would struggle.  Josh has a much higher ceiling than any of those guys.  It was also obvious that Fitz would end up letting us down with his penchant for pick 6's.  Tyrod while a great athlete and protected the ball, would not throw to a receiver unless he was "college open."

You = Bills fans in general. Thread after thread after thread... It's clear pretty early that Allen will struggle.

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18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep.

 

Perhaps they can swing a trade for AJ Green still.

 

18 minutes ago, Virgil said:


I’d rather have Diggs

 

I'd rather have Trent Williams.

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Man people like to pile it on. Josh had a very bad start to the game, you could see the nervousness, bad accuracy, over throws - that was on him, not because of the Pats*. But then he was average, some bone head throws, some very good ones. You seem to forget he was facing a defense as good as any in the history of the NFL since the last playoffs, a defense that shut everybody this year AND the Chiefs and Rams, the two best offenses last year. He wasn't THAT bad, and let the kid have his growing pains.

 

Besides that first challenge (WTF was he thinking?), coaches were near the Cheats level. Except in preparation and fundamentals but the Grumpy One an crew have years of experience and stability over the Bills. It's been a long while since we'had such good coaches. McD is still fairly green.

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3 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:mcd= f

dabol= f

frazier= doesn't even rate

 

if this crap keeps up we're on our way to 6-10 and if mcd can't teach his goomba leslie how to bring it...like 20th century style , then they can both go. ok, i vented i'm out.


We lose by 6 at home, make Brady look pedestrian, and outperform them on offense, and you want to fire everyone?

 

We played a top tier defense and one of the best teams in the league. 

 

Turnovers killed us.  Not the coaches.  Daboll could’ve schemes a little better and we could’ve adjusted on the blocked punt.  
 

Those are player mistakes on the field, and only by two do them. 
 

Back off the ledge 

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5 minutes ago, Virgil said:


We lose by 6 at home, make Brady look pedestrian, and outperform them on offense, and you want to fire everyone?

 

We played a top tier defense and one of the best teams in the league. 

 

Turnovers killed us.  Not the coaches.  Daboll could’ve schemes a little better and we could’ve adjusted on the blocked punt.  
 

Those are player mistakes on the field, and only by two do them. 
 

Back off the ledge 

Daboll could have used Smith, Gore, Knox, McKenzie, Zay, etc a lot differently. I thought he had a bad game. Liked the Brown pass though although he threw it too short. 

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2 minutes ago, Virgil said:


We lose by 6 at home, make Brady look pedestrian, and outperform them on offense, and you want to fire everyone?

 

We played a top tier defense and one of the best teams in the league. 

 

Turnovers killed us.  Not the coaches.  Daboll could’ve schemes a little better and we could’ve adjusted on the blocked punt.  
 

Those are player mistakes on the field, and only by two do them. 
 

Back off the ledge 

we got outcoached. we should have seen / known what they were gonna do defensively because the entire world knew what belichek was gonna do. it's only been going on for 20 yrs. i'm not gonna make excuse for josh either. he looked like e.j manual today.  that's coaching...kinda like rushing 4 on 3rd down. who cares if brady completes a 5 yd pass as long as you lay the wood to him!. it just seems that nothing ever changes when we play these guys and so far we've played down to the level of our opponents and have been lucky to get a few wins. well that's gonna stop if this staff doesn't get their heads out of their a$$e$.

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15 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

we got out coached and gave a game away that we should have been able to win.  this was a jauronesque coaching effort with a team that could have/ should have won this game.

 

In a board full of stupid, THIS is the most mentally handicapped thing I've read all day.

 

Congratulations.

 

When the ***** did Jauron ever go for it TWICE on fourth and goal in a game?

 

You're bad, and you should feel bad.

 

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3 minutes ago, Virgil said:


We lose by 6 at home, make Brady look pedestrian, and outperform them on offense, and you want to fire everyone?

 

We played a top tier defense and one of the best teams in the league. 

 

Turnovers killed us.  Not the coaches.  Daboll could’ve schemes a little better and we could’ve adjusted on the blocked punt.  
 

Those are player mistakes on the field, and only by two do them. 
 

Back off the ledge 

  There is a reason that every last person here has time to vent on this board and that is none of us despite our raw emotionalism has what it takes to be a coach or player in the NFL.  Allen was perhaps a little too wired for this game but he will learn not to get too emotional.  Most people prior to kickoff were anticipating a loss because there remains quite a bit of work to be done in completing this team in terms of on field  performance and this is what we saw this afternoon.  Hurts more because we were very close to exceeding expectations but we are not hopelessly lost in the forest as some think we are.  The Titans are a beatable team so let both fans and team be looking forward and not focused back on a loss that really does not impact the season.  Twelve games remain and lets get as many W's as possible.

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1 minute ago, billsredneck1 said:

we got outcoached. we should have seen / known what they were gonna do defensively because the entire world knew what belichek was gonna do. it's only been going on for 20 yrs. i'm not gonna make excuse for josh either. he looked like e.j manual today.  that's coaching...kinda like rushing 4 on 3rd down. who cares if brady completes a 5 yd pass as long as you lay the wood to him!. it just seems that nothing ever changes when we play these guys and so far we've played down to the level of our opponents and have been lucky to get a few wins. well that's gonna stop if this staff doesn't get their heads out of their a$$e$.

You cannot possibly blame the defense at all in this game. They were insanely good. 

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2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You cannot possibly blame the defense at all in this game. They were insanely good. 

 

or the coaching.


Even though they failed on the 4th and goal with Barkley, I STILL love the call.

 

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1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

or the coaching.


Even though they failed on the 4th and goal with Barkley, I STILL love the call.

 

I was totally against it. Game planning and defensive coaching was good. I didn't like in game decisions or a lot of Dabolls decisions. Knox needs to play. Gore was non existent in second half. Zay is worthless. Smith is a cog not a consistent contributor. 

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5 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Look at the poster's user name.

Saw his name but his original post is gone. 

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7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

In a board full of stupid, THIS is the most mentally handicapped thing I've read all day.

 

Congratulations.

 

When the ***** did Jauron ever go for it TWICE on fourth and goal in a game?

 

You're bad, and you should feel bad.

 

i figured someone would come up with a lame take and use that word. you're no. 1 congrats...we'll maybe you're no.2..

 

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