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A Few Thoughts About the *Pats game, in no particular order


Virgil
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I was at the game today and was watching the QBs warm up pregame. One thing I noticed was Allen was lackadaisical when throwing to receivers. Barkley was taking snaps from a coach and actually dropping back simulating game speed and stepping into throws whereas Allen took the snap, stood there and threw passes flat footed. It just looked lazy.

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I did not keep track and have not been able to find any specific information, but I think Lee Smith had at least one holding call and three false starts. Buffalo spent a lot of money on this guy and he's alleged to be the best blocking TE in the league, not to mention a great locker room guy, but I'm not sure that any of that is worth enduring that many penalties.  Knox has shown the ability to make big plays and both he and Sweeney are good to very good blockers, with upside in that area.  

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1 minute ago, DuckyBoys said:

I have been a Josh Allen guy since draft day but there is gunslinger and there is what he did today and they are two different things  Those late throws into coverage and taking sacks in FG range were just bone headed plays no good qb does often .  Let alone that many times in one game. It looked like Dabol and McDermot have a different mindset on how to handle it  Dabol was calling him out and looked like he wanted to slap him in the head  McDermott was trying some sort of jedi non confrontational thing on the sideline

There is no question he makes those mistakes. But he has 15 starts. And a huge portion of what he has done well is because he takes chances and he runs and he scrambles and he throws passes he has no business throwing or completing. It's all part of the package right now this early in his career. He's not like anyone else and he cannot be compared as such. His strengths are part of his weaknesses. It's only through experience that he is going to change the percentage.  

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1 minute ago, TigerJ said:

I didn't see it in any other thread, (I could have missed it) but regarding Buffalo penalties, 8 were enforced against Buffalo.  I did not keep track and have not been about to find any specific information, but I think Lee Smith had at least one holding call and three false starts.  If anyone can confirm that or give a correction, I would appreciate it, but it that is close to being accurate, what is going on with this guy.  Buffalo spent a lot of money on this guy and he's alleged to be the best blocking TE in the league, not to mention a great locker room guy, but I'm not sure that any of that is worth enduring that many penalties.  Knox has shown the ability to make big plays and both he and Sweeney are good to very good blockers, with upside in that area.  


Lee had 4 accepted penalties against him 

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3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

It's almost like people are longing for the golden age of tuhrod.

Tuhrod help take us to the playoffs, suck on that popsicle a while

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

Our D rocked.  Jordan Phillips played great.  So did Levi.  Yeldon and Zay suck.  Can Zay make a ***** play?  Get rid of Zay, give Duke his minutes

Looking back, we should have drafted anyone but Zay, he is a complete bust

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1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There is no question he makes those mistakes. But he has 15 starts. And a huge portion of what he has done well is because he takes chances and he runs and he scrambles and he throws passes he has no business throwing or completing. It's all part of the package right now this early in his career. He's not like anyone else and he cannot be compared as such. His strengths are part of his weaknesses. It's only through experience that he is going to change the percentage.  

In keeping with this i will say if he actually gets that second interception to Zay it might have very well been a TD and there is the game we win.  All that said you don't make mistakes and beat the Pats.  So the current Josh Allen is going to have to learn if we want to go from good to serious contenders

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3 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

did anyone mention dawkins two holding penalties that nullified defensive Offside and the hit on allen.... 

 

line was bad today

Pass blocking was awful. There were 3-4 plays Josh had enough time to throw it away but the replays often showed no one open. A lot of times the rush came quick. Not to excuse Allen, he didn't have a good day. But the Pats are good and our line was not. 

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You could argue that the first two picks on Josh weren't even that bad a decision (can't believe I'm doing this).  Even with the coverage if Josh throws the first one 5 yards farther Brown was behind Gilmore.  He was covered but he was behind Gilmore.  Same thing with Zay if the pass was 5 yards further it's possibly a catch.  So I'm on board with don't lose the gunslinger mentality.  That said if you are going to be a gunslinger who is off by 5 yards on all your deep passes it's going to be a long day. 

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3 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

He's essentially still a rookie, this was his 15th NFL game, so he's still prone to mistakes.  That said, I have to believe that these mistakes will weigh on him and he'll learn.  This isn't the year we go deep in the playoffs.  I'll still take 10-6 and a wildcard spot.

That was what we all used to say in an earlier NFL. Not so long ago, like maybe the 1990s.

That's not the way it goes anymore. We're in an NFL where the young franchise QBs make an immediate impression. Think about it:

- Russell Wilson

- Matt Ryan

- Dak Prescott

- Deshaun Watson

- Carson Wentz

- Cam Newton

- Andy Dalton

- Andrew Luck

- Joe Flacco

- Ben Roethlisberger

- Baker Mayfield? Lamar Jackson? Daniel Jones?? Gardner Minshew???

And then look at the guys who sat for a year, then IMMEDIATELY showed complete mastery of the position:

- Brady

- Mahomes

Expand it to "sat for 2 or 3 years, then as soon as he played showed IMMEDIATE mastery of the position," add:

- Rodgers

- Rivers

- Garoppolo??

The category of QBs who struggled mightily at the start and needed to actually play a season or two (or more) before they find their feet is shrinking every year. In fact, looking at NFL starters now, I guess you could say perhaps Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota are finally getting it, or that Jared Goff finally got it last year, or that Derek Carr got it after one full season. But those guys aren't in the same class as the guys who "got it" right away. You may have to go back to Drew Brees to find a future elite QB who struggled early on (or Peyton Manning before that). And back in the Manning-Brees era, that was the way it went - you suffered through your QBs growing pains and then he emerged as the real deal after a couple years. (Marino was the great exception.)

In other words, you know it when you see it, and nowadays you tend to see "it" right away. And I ain't seein' it yet with Josh, or Darnold or Rosen for that matter.

Edited by The Frankish Reich
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3 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

You could argue that the first two picks on Josh weren't even that bad a decision (can't believe I'm doing this).  Even with the coverage if Josh throws the first one 5 yards farther Brown was behind Gilmore.  He was covered but he was behind Gilmore.  Same thing with Zay if the pass was 5 yards further it's possibly a catch.  So I'm on board with don't lose the gunslinger mentality.  That said if you are going to be a gunslinger who is off by 5 yards on all your deep passes it's going to be a long day. 

Yup. The first one was bad decision. The second was just a bad pass. And Zay does nothing to go after the ball. Don't throw deep to Zay.  

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just dont throw to Zay period   I think Allen needs to shelve the endless hardcount  I think were losing on false starts vs the amount of times he's drawn a off sides by a very large margin  Our guys obviously are too busy in the huddle to remember something so tough as what count to go on.  Lee Smith seems to have a very difficult time grasping it

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9 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There is no question he makes those mistakes. But he has 15 starts. And a huge portion of what he has done well is because he takes chances and he runs and he scrambles and he throws passes he has no business throwing or completing. It's all part of the package right now this early in his career. He's not like anyone else and he cannot be compared as such. His strengths are part of his weaknesses. It's only through experience that he is going to change the percentage.  

Hopefully, the takeaway for the young qb is that the first drive in the second half that lead to a score is the right way to approach the game. He needs to make it a mantra to take what is available and don't force it, especially against the best prepared team in the game. His hero ball mentality has to be limited. 

 

As you noted he is inexperienced and is still learning. But what was disturbing/disappointing about his play in this game was that his footwork and passing fundamentals were lacking for most of the game. Supposedly that was what he worked on all offseason. JA is a smart guy and a hard worker. This game should be a good learning tool for him in his growth process as a qb. 

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9 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

That was what we all used to say in an earlier NFL. Not so long ago, like maybe the 1990s.

That's not the way it goes anymore. We're in an NFL where the young franchise QBs make an immediate impression. Think about it:

- Russell Wilson

- Matt Ryan

- Dak Prescott

- Deshaun Watson

- Carson Wentz

- Cam Newton

- Andy Dalton

- Andrew Luck

- Joe Flacco

- Ben Roethlisberger

- Baker Mayfield? Lamar Jackson? Daniel Jones?? Gardner Minshew???

And then look at the guys who sat for a year, then IMMEDIATELY showed complete mastery of the position:

- Brady

- Mahomes

Expand it to "sat for 2 or 3 years, then as soon as he played showed IMMEDIATE mastery of the position," add:

- Rodgers

- Rivers

- Garoppolo??

The category of QBs who struggled mightily at the start and needed to actually play a season or two (or more) before they find their feet is shrinking every year. In fact, looking at NFL starters now, I guess you could say perhaps Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota are finally getting it, or that Jared Goff finally got it last year, or that Derek Carr got it after one full season. But those guys aren't in the same class as the guys who "got it" right away. You may have to go back to Drew Brees to find a future elite QB who struggled early on (or Peyton Manning before that). And back in the Manning-Brees era, that was the way it went - you suffered through your QBs growing pains and then he emerged as the real deal after a couple years. (Marino was the great exception.)

In other words, you know it when you see it, and nowadays you tend to see "it" right away. And I ain't seein' it yet with Josh, or Darnold or Rosen for that matter.

Goff weas really good in his second season.

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10 hours ago, Bangarang said:

I was at the game today and was watching the QBs warm up pregame. One thing I noticed was Allen was lackadaisical when throwing to receivers. Barkley was taking snaps from a coach and actually dropping back simulating game speed and stepping into throws whereas Allen took the snap, stood there and threw passes flat footed. It just looked lazy.


I am not surprised to hear this - I can often tell pre-game whether a QB is dialed in.  Rob Johnson used to have a “lost at sea” look in his eyes during pregame warmups and it carried over to the games.  
 

I’ll keep saying it: as talented as Josh Allen is, he needs to grow up if he’s going to take the next step.

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