If Tremaine Edmunds has a problem.....

[atlbillsfan1975]

Edmunds has ability. He can cover wideouts if need be. Edmunds is also big enough and fast enough to be a great pass rusher. Those two qualities mean he will be an asset.

His body length makes me question his ability to stop the run long term. He provides blockers with a large surface area to engage him on. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by atlbillsfan1975

[BobbyC81]

7 hours ago, Andy1 said:

 

This is exactly what I have been pondering recently. Other good defenses have star players, especially on the D line. This team doesn’t have that star player on the line. Yet they are collectively playing together within the system to shut down offenses. They seem to be a group of complimentary players where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. 

 

Everyone does their 1/11th.

[billsbackto81]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He's good in coverage for sure.

 

Just about everything else is meh, IMO. Doesn't shed blocks well, doesn't tackle well, still over pursues plays and ball carriers, gets dragged for yards when he does make a stop.

 

 

This is my only issue with his game thus far. 

[CSBill]

7 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Edmund doesn’t have the instincts of a MLB. Age isn’t going to change that. I have said this before, find me some plays where he goes forward and plugs a hole or wrecks a play. He likes to use his length and tackle with his arms. With his build and skill set he would be a great outside backer. For some reason people take that as a slight against him. 

 

Totally agree. The Bills would jump at the chance to upgrade at ML and move him outside--which would be a double-upgrade. And this is not meant as a criticism of him, but like CC said, he is better suited outside.

[Magox]

Edmunds is progressing just fine.  He isn't your natural thumper which isn't a prerequisite any longer for being a MLB, the game has changed and the more prized sought after skill set is for a MLB is pass defense.    He's been excellent against the pass and ok vs. the run.   I am good with that and the beauty is that he will only get better.  

[Simon]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He played LB for 3 years at VA Tech too............its not like Brian Urlacher entering the NFL as a safety out of the Mountain West conference (and turning into a superstar MLB day one).

 

Actually he only really played for two years; I don't think he really did much his Freshman year but run around on those ST units.

Since then he was drafted as a teenager and has put about one season of NFL games under his belt; he is the poster child for young bucks that might need a little more time to put it all together.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

This D is interesting. Very very good but with no person or level that stands out. Perhaps the backend is the strength. It’s hard to identify who truly sets the tone. 

Hughes would beg to differ 

[Coach Tuesday]

One related thing no one is talking about: is Milano fully recovered from his injury?  Because he’s supposed to be a thumper on the outside, and it doesn’t seem to me that he has regained his explosiveness, yet.  If Milano were healthy we’d notice Edmunds’ struggles less, IMO.  That’s my theory, at least, could be wrong.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I don’t get the constant criticism of a 20 year old guy in his sophomore year “leading” the defense.   

 

He’s the QB of the D and doing his job imo. 

 

You don’t recall hearing much of anything negative on his play in the game.   No one can play THE perfect game, which applies to everyone. 

 

Pass D is still good Run D imo looks much improved.  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Actually he only really played for two years; I don't think he really did much his Freshman year but run around on those ST units.

Since then he was drafted as a teenager and has put about one season of NFL games under his belt; he is the poster child for young bucks that might need a little more time to put it all together.

 

26 starts at LB in a power 5 conference is a lot nowadays...........and this is a guy who was raised to be a pro football player by a father who was a star in the NFL and also has another brother in the NFL.   I don't get too hung up on him being one year younger than most at the position because he's certainly not new to the game or physically limited by his age.    He's closer to the poster child for plug and play, IMO.

 

And yet you see guys like Urlacher with no experience be great immediately..........or Vander Esch come from 7 man football with one year starting experience at Boise St and excel in the NFL immediately..........being instinctive is very important at LB, IMO.

 

I'm not saying he won't continue to get better.........look at how far the athletic but uninstinctive Nigel Bradham came when here....... but uninstinctive players at the mirror RB/MLB positions rarely become great and it would be a waste to get any less than great out of Edmunds.

 

To me he's best as an edge player............that's where you can develop great athletes with his frame who may lack a nose for the ball into great play makers.

Edited September 25, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[John from Riverside]

If the team was suffering because of Edmunds....I could see the teeth gashing over him

 

Our defense is literally the best in the league right now....if not top 5

[Phil The Thrill]

18 hours ago, FLFan said:

I expect we will see a heavy dose of running and screens but not because of Edmunds, because that is who NE is now.  I am sure we will also see the usual quotient of quick passes to PED boy.

 

Edmunds received a good deal of blame from the fans around her for the Bills poor run defense in the last NE game, and although he was not blameless, he was not the primary problem.  Milano was also missing in the lineup which created a huge problem on that side of the defense.  We are also missing Taron Johnson, as we may be again, and his replacements were simply not in the same class in run support.  NE killed us on the edges as a result. every tackle is not Edmunds responsibility.

I think you are underselling his responsibility.  Yes it wasn’t ALL his fault but he is the MLB and was a significant reason why they struggled.  I agree that not having Milano hurt but if you watch the game, you’ll see Edmunds blocked out position during many runs.  I think this was by design, as he struggled in run support previously 
 

He seems to have gotten better with this, so it will be interesting to see what happens on Sunday. 

[ctk232]

14 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

They won't. Edmunds is doing exactly what he was brought in to do. You have brought up the NE game last year before. I doubt it will happen again, especially with Milano back in the line up. In any event, a run stuffing MLB is more a liability in todays NFL than an asset.  McD is just not interested in a run stuffing MLB.  He wants a guy that is good in coverage and plays sideline to sideline. He does this exceptionally well. 

^this - again we evaluate players in a "traditional" position sets that get recycled in media verbiage and armchair analysis versus the role they play within the defense McD/Frasier established. Even going back to Carolina, McD's defense employed LBs in multi-role sets, asking the Mike to equally contribute in gap stuffing run stops and pass coverage - both of which Edmunds has actually been doing well for only his second season. It's been known since last year that block shedding is to Edmund's what accuracy was/is to Allen - both need development and refinement, and despite what's being reported here, both have made great strides in their respective roles. 

 

Funny enough, the All-22 breakdown from Cinci actually shows improvement for Edmunds in this regard, being more quick to react and trusting his eyes versus waiting and reading. He wasn't perfect, but he was quicker and it made a difference. With his unbelievable acceleration he often beat the blocker/Mixon to the gap spot to at least stop the momentum and let the D converge. He let a couple plays get by him, sure, but like I said, he isn't going to be perfect for all 203 snaps that he played Sunday, at least not yet. In my mind, he's doing damn well for a 21 year old MLB in this defense and there's no indication he isn't up to the task or won't develop into this role, there just isn't.

 

Due to the trend to a pass heavy NFL, you've seen the "traditional" Mike role transition from being a brick wall to a more hybridized run stuffing pass coverage back. The lines between middle/outside LB are even more blurred in this defense, but McD has rostered guys that bring specific skillsets to contribute to both aspects of the defense.

 

Just to add, Cody Ford actually had a pretty good time at filling in at RG for Feliciano...

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by ctk232

[PatsFanNH]

19 hours ago, GG said:

They just IRd Develin.  Edmunds is safe from targeting.  

they Pats brought  up another FB who is from Germany from the PS.  barely used him last week but he looks big lol

[GG]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

they Pats brought  up another FB who is from Germany from the PS.  barely used him last week but he looks big lol

 

I'm sure he's had enough time to learn the proper Pats* technique of leading with the crown of his helmet.

[GreggTX]

I have serious doubts that Edmunds will ever be very good. Some guys just never reach that point where the game slows down for them so we make excuses for them. Wake me up when Edmunds uses that 257 lb frame to lay some guy out. Also, I don't buy the theory that he can't hit because he's thinking. Hyde thinks AND hits hard. So can Edmunds chew gum and walk at the same time? Can he process what's going on fast enough? How much time do we give him to come around? How long can we afford to wait?

Edited September 25, 2019 by GreggTX

[Rocket94]

1 minute ago, GreggTX said:

I have serious doubts that Edmunds will ever be very good. Some guys just never reach that point where the game slows down for them so we make excuses for them. Wake me up when Edmunds uses that 257 lb frame to lay some guy out. Also, I don't buy the theory that he can't hit because he's thinking. Hyde thinks AND hits hard. So can Edmunds chew gum and walk at the same time? Can he process what's going on fast enough. How much time do we give him to come around? How long can we afford to wait?

This has been discussed before and then it dissolved. Now, more and more people can see it. Edmunds is headed to the outside.

[PatsFanNH]

45 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I'm sure he's had enough time to learn the proper Pats* technique of leading with the crown of his helmet.

Huh? thats more likely get themselves hurt..  and rather poor taste saying they teach that technique. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

If the team was suffering because of Edmunds....I could see the teeth gashing over him

 

Our defense is literally the best in the league right now....if not top 5

 

Edmunds is fine.  Teams used to run at Bruce Smith too, because it was easier to try and run block him then expose themselves to backside pursuit. 

 

Mixon, Sequan and Le’veon Are all exceptional Backs. 

 

Id rather a mlb struggle with the run than the passing game, where he has done well in 2019.

 

if this was 1975, maybe not. 

[Mark80]

No one gets beat up over 1 or 2 bad plays a game more than Edmunds.  It's pretty funny to me.

 

As I say when people talk about Allen being inaccurate on a couple throws a game.  Every QB misses open passes and every MLB gets blocked out of play, over pursues a PA, and loses a RB / TE in coverage during a game.  Every.  Single.  One.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Mark80

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

No one gets beat up over 1 or 2 bad plays a game more than Edmunds.  It's pretty funny to me.

 

As I say when people talk about Allen being inaccurate on a couple throws a game.  Every QB misses open passes and every MLB gets blocked out of play, over pursues a PA, and loses a RB / TE in coverage during a game.  Every.  Single.  One.

 

So Zay Jones doesn't get beat up more for 1 or 2 bad plays a game?

 

I get that you needed something to lead with but implying that Edmunds is heavily scrutinized here or in the media is absurd.

 

And the problem isn't the bad plays it's the lack of plays.     This defense is supposed to feature the MLB by putting him in position to make plays..........and he's just too often late to the action and subsequently isn't making them.   

Edited September 25, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So Zay Jones doesn't get beat up more for 1 or 2 bad plays a game?

 

I get that you needed something to lead with but implying that Edmunds is heavily scrutinized here or in the media is absurd.

 

And the problem isn't the bad plays it's the lack of plays.     This defense is supposed to feature the MLB by putting him in position to make plays..........and he's just too often late to the action and subsequently isn't making them.   

That is breathtakingly untrue. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

That is breathtakingly untrue. 

 

 

So gotta' ask........did you clutch your pearls when I left you breathless?

 

We all know about Kuechly but when you are done hyperventilating put the bag down and read this........Pedestrian Preston Brown leading the NFL in tackles in the McDefense in 2017..........it's real friendly to instinctive MLB's.

 

[GG]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Huh? thats more likely get themselves hurt..  and rather poor taste saying they teach that technique. 

Check the video replays of Develin's running and blocking.  Ask Freddie Jackson about Spikes' hit.  

 

Coincidence?

[elroy16]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So gotta' ask........did you clutch your pearls when I left you breathless?

 

We all know about Kuechly but when you are done hyperventilating put the bag down and read this........Pedestrian Preston Brown leading the NFL in tackles in the McDefense in 2017..........it's real friendly to instinctive MLB's.

 

 

 

The Bills were 29th in the league against the run that year.

 

The Bills are 8th against the run this year.

 

 

Maybe tackles by the MLB doesn't correlate 1 to 1 with the success of the defense. 

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

The Bills were 29th in the league against the run that year.

 

The Bills are 8th against the run this year.

 

 

Maybe tackles by the MLB doesn't correlate 1 to 1 with the success of the defense. 

 

 

How he did not understand how dumb that stat would make him look is beyond me. 

[GG]

2 minutes ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

The Bills were 29th in the league against the run that year.

 

The Bills are 8th against the run this year.

 

 

Maybe tackles by the MLB doesn't correlate 1 to 1 with the success of the defense. 

 

 

Two stats are not correlated.  A bad rush defense would typically have safeties as lead tacklers. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

Two stats are not correlated.  A bad rush defense would typically have safeties as lead tacklers. 

Typically, maybe. But the whole premise of this conversation from the Edmunds defenders is that MLB is evolving in the pass-first NFL.  Their ability as rush defenders is not as important; their assignments are different. It follows that total tackle numbers decrease. Edmunds has done a great job filling his holes and pushing defenders outside. When that happens, though, his tackle numbers go down. 

[GG]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Typically, maybe. But the whole premise of this conversation from the Edmunds defenders is that MLB is evolving in the pass-first NFL.  Their ability as rush defenders is not as important; their assignments are different. It follows that total tackle numbers decrease. Edmunds has done a great job filling his holes and pushing defenders outside. When that happens, though, his tackle numbers go down. 

That's not what All22 shows, though.  So far, he's been a net liability vs the run. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, GG said:

That's not what All22 shows, though.  So far, he's been a net liability vs the run. 

 

Did you see the link I posted above? I realize that is only one example, but that is exactly what the All22 shows. 

[elroy16]

Just now, GG said:

That's not what All22 shows, though.  So far, he's been a net liability vs the run. 

 

 

They've faced two premier RB's and as a team have done very well.

 

If that's the worst they'll do with Edmunds at MLB, while continuing the have an elite pass defense, I fail to see the problem. 

[GG]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Did you see the link I posted above? I realize that is only one example, but that is exactly what the All22 shows. 

Definition of net liability is that he's had more negative plays in the run game than positive.  It doesn't mean that's he's absolutely useless vs the run. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, GG said:

Definition of net liability is that he's had more negative plays in the run game than positive.  It doesn't mean that's he's absolutely useless vs the run. 

Hard disagree, and in the context of our top 6 defense (top 8 run defense), the overall statistical evidence is on my side. Those statistics alone indicate the rush defense is doing its job. That includes Edmunds. 

[GG]

2 minutes ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

They've faced two premier RB's and as a team have done very well.

 

If that's the worst they'll do with Edmunds at MLB, while continuing the have an elite pass defense, I fail to see the problem. 

The point is that they can be a truly elite D by kicking Edmunds outside and having a true MLB

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GG said:

The point is that they can be a truly elite D by kicking Edmunds outside and having a true MLB

They can also be a truly elite D when Tremaine settles down and the game is moving slow for him

 

He's like 20 ganes in and like 21 years old. When he's 25 he's gonna be one of the best Mikes in the world

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, GG said:

The point is that they can be a truly elite D by kicking Edmunds outside and having a true MLB

No way. No MLB they plug in is going to be nearly as effective in the pass game, where it reallllly matters. 

 

This would be foolish. This is the equivalent of having a run first offense in todays NFL. It is based on an outdated philosophy. 

[GG]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

They can also be a truly elite D when Tremaine settles down and the game is moving slow for him

 

He's like 20 ganes in and like 21 years old. When he's 25 he's gonna be one of the best Mikes in the world

 

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Hard disagree, and in the context of our top 6 defense (top 8 run defense), the overall statistical evidence is on my side. Those statistics alone indicate the rush defense is doing its job. That includes Edmunds. 

 

There's not enough evidence of total run stopping domination given the opponents so far.   A dominant defense doesn't allow Andy Dalton to march up and down the field in the second half, nor let it into red zone range with a minute left in the game.  Edmunds would be a far greater assets as the totally disruptive OLB than a mismatched MLB learning his game.

 

Proof was Giants opening drive, and then the 2 score deficit changed the Giants' offense.  Compare that to Bengals who got back in the game by running the ball in 3Q.

 

Everyone is waiting for Edmunds' light to turn on, and that was hyped going into the season, and yet he's basically at the same spot he was last year.  So with Harry out for the year, we better pray that Star's and Edmunds' lights turn on very quickly.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

 

There's not enough evidence of total run stopping domination given the opponents so far.   A dominant defense doesn't allow Andy Dalton to march up and down the field in the second half, nor let it into red zone range with a minute left in the game.  Edmunds would be a far greater assets as the totally disruptive OLB than a mismatched MLB learning his game.

 

Proof was Giants opening drive, and then the 2 score deficit changed the Giants' offense.  Compare that to Bengals who got back in the game by running the ball in 3Q.

 

Everyone is waiting for Edmunds' light to turn on, and that was hyped going into the season, and yet he's basically at the same spot he was last year.  So with Harry out for the year, we better pray that Star's and Edmunds' lights turn on very quickly.

The Bengals had 2 good drive the WHOLE GAME

 

 

[Big Turk]

Yo I'll solve it...check out this hit while Milano revolves it...

 

Bills Bills Baby...

Too Bold too Bold...

Edited September 25, 2019 by matter2003

[GG]

33 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The Bengals had 2 good drive the WHOLE GAME

 

 

 

Do a deeper dive on Bengals' last 4 drives and you will see a lot of chinks in the Bills dominant D armor.  This is one of those instances where the stats are misleading.   Once Dalton got in the groove, the defense had a hard time forcing a stop on downs.