Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-Season Game 1

[MR8]

2 hours ago, chris heff said:

I’m still not convinced Zay is anything, he heard footsteps and flat out dropped that ball. I hope they don’t keep him just because they drafted him.

 

Shaq is better than Trent.

 

Defense is going to be good and has depth.

 

Offensive line will be better, but it would have to be. Still worried about center. 

 

Was it just me or were TE invisible?

 

I thought the TEs did a good job considering the top 3 TEs on the roster all didn't play... no real news is a massive win for them.  Kroft, Knox, and Croom were all inactive, so you have Sweeney a 7th round rookie (who played pretty well considering), Lee Smith, and Keith Towbridge   playing and we don't have negatives to say... IMO that's a win.

 

Sure you'd prefer your TEs to catch passes and make waves, but all things considered, not being a liability is just as good under the situation.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

4 minutes ago, FiftyPercent said:

No QB is perfect, not even Tom.  We just need Allen to be about 65% perfect, not 50% perfect.

[FiftyPercent]

Just now, The Wiz said:

Exactly! No one wants fifty percent around here. 

 

That was pretty neat. ?

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Honestly, I thought Allen had a really good outing last night. Yes, he had one bad, unforgivable throw, but for the most part I was very pleased at what I saw.

 

I didn't see Allen forcing it into risky spots. He was able to take what the defense would give him, such as hitting Beasley for solid yardage after that penalty. He noticed a coverage breakdown for a huge chunk play. He noticed the huge cushion John Brown was being given and changed the play at the line to take advantage of the mismatch and pick up a first down....and that was why Allen took so many low percentage shots downfield early. Doing that opens up the middle of the field and makes people play with a cushion that makes things happen.

 

All in all, while he didn't look like an MVP I honestly see a lot of progress and he looks miles ahead of where he was before. So I am a little surprised to hear the tale of the tape being "Josh Allen had an up and down night"

[Logic]

Just now, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Honestly, I thought Allen had a really good outing last night. Yes, he had one bad, unforgivable throw, but for the most part I was very pleased at what I saw.

 

I didn't see Allen forcing it into risky spots. He was able to take what the defense would give him, such as hitting Beasley for solid yardage after that penalty. He noticed a coverage breakdown for a huge chunk play. He noticed the huge cushion John Brown was being given and changed the play at the line to take advantage of the mismatch and pick up a first down....and that was why Allen took so many low percentage shots downfield early. Doing that opens up the middle of the field and makes people play with a cushion that makes things happen.

 

All in all, while he didn't look like an MVP I honestly see a lot of progress and he looks miles ahead of where he was before. So I am a little surprised to hear the tale of the tape being "Josh Allen had an up and down night"

Agreed. 

He had two bad throws all night: The overthrow on the Zay deep pass and the underthrow to Zay where he put it in the dirt. On the other hand, Zay also dropped what would have been a sure touchdown, which would have had Allen at 63% completion for the night with a TD.

So long as our defense finishes top 5, like it should, the Bills have the talent -- and Allen is playing well enough, it would seem -- to win 10 games.

[FiftyPercent]

https://buffalonews.com/2019/08/08/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-indianapolis-colts-zay-jones-cole-beasley-nfl-football/

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, FiftyPercent said:

https://buffalonews.com/2019/08/08/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-indianapolis-colts-zay-jones-cole-beasley-nfl-football/

 

 

 

Oh goody, just what we needed. Another troll.

 

 

[FiftyPercent]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Oh goody, just what we needed. Another troll.

 

 

 

Is Buffalo News fake news these days? I'm pointing out that pretty much all news outlets saw the same as many of us.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, FiftyPercent said:

 

Is Buffalo News fake news these days? I'm pointing out that pretty much all news outlets saw the same as many of us.  

 

Is that a rhetorical question?

 

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For a man who said "the oline opened up some holes for me" my question would be "well why did you only average 3 yards a carry then?" I think Singletary will have a role on this team in 2019. But it is a 3rd down guy and a change of pace guy.

Agree but I could see him taking on a bigger role toward the end of the year...he’s got fresh legs and out RB room is ancient. 

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

Agreed. 

He had two bad throws all night: The overthrow on the Zay deep pass and the underthrow to Zay where he put it in the dirt. On the other hand, Zay also dropped what would have been a sure touchdown, which would have had Allen at 63% completion for the night with a TD.

So long as our defense finishes top 5, like it should, the Bills have the talent -- and Allen is playing well enough, it would seem -- to win 10 games.

I saw nerves tbh. His footwork was much improved and he’s clearly more comfortable in the pocket, just missed a couple that came out too hot/long.

[Gugny]

8 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Is that a rhetorical question?

 

 

16 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

17 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Exactly! No one wants fifty percent around here. 

 

26 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Just stop

 

Let's not allow an obvious troll to ruin a thread that Gunner Bill worked hard to craft.  Just ignore him/them and wait for the purge.  Gunner deserves better.

 

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, FiftyPercent said:

https://buffalonews.com/2019/08/08/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-indianapolis-colts-zay-jones-cole-beasley-nfl-football/

 

 

 

If they're categorizing the John Brown sideline incompletion as anything other than a miscommunication, then I'm not sure they know what they're watching.

 

It's totally reasonable to say that Allen misfired on the deep ball and the comeback to Zay. The Brown sideline throw was clearly QB and WR not being on the same page. Zay's drop was, well, a drop, and you've got one throwaway. I wouldn't call that anything other than a typical preseason day 1 for a typical starting QB.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

 

 

 

Let's not allow an obvious troll to ruin a thread that Gunner Bill worked hard to craft.  Just ignore him/them and wait for the purge.  Gunner deserves better.

 

 

Agreed, my bad.

 

 

[ddaryl]

 

15 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Oh goody, just what we needed. Another troll.

 

 

 

 

What is in it that artcilee that hasn't been said or agreed upon by pretty much everyone here

However some are choosing to trend the negative side of the information while the majority see it a solid 1st preseason effort with no time to get into any sort of game groove.. 

 

Perceptions 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by ddaryl

[Don Otreply]

29 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

I don't care about % with JA. I've said that many times. If he's 55% and hits on some big throws and a couple runs his % won't matter.

Right, and Allen hit the receivers hands while in stride on a big throw.  

 

Go Bills !!!

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Agreed, my bad.

 

 

Rookie!?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Rookie!?

 

*quickly glances at post counts*

 

 

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Agreed, my bad.

 

 

 

Mine, too!

 

 

[Bill Murray]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Going to add a couple others. But more as entire position groups. I took the preseason pledge so I won’t watch multiple times to really watch players 

 

LBers - There is more quality depth here than I originally though. I really didn’t see any LBers out there that looked like they didn’t belong. It looks like there is some quality depth there. 

 

DBs - this by far is the deepest and best position group on this team. After this week and I do think will continue thru preseason there are going to be some hard choices in this position group.  And I think there are going to be players they may be able to get a pick for before cuts. 

 

Speaking of depth. I think for the first time in a long time there are going to be players that get cut from Bill and immediately find work in the NFL. And that is a testament to the depth this team is developing. There are still thin position groups but nothing like in years past. 

 

Sweeney flashed to me and that is a great sign. I hope he continues to build off it and take advantage of the opportunity the INJs are providing. Would be nice to come out of this Draft season with two Promising young TEs. 

 

Dabol reason I am putting him here is even with the Vanilla Offense it is nice to graduate into an NFL Offense. I know there are coaching objectives each preseason game. Things they absolutely want to do. Dabol seemed like he wanted to show Look We are no longer a 3 yard in a cloud of Dust team and it was refreshing. I hope it carries into the season. 

 

All and all it is is good to have football back. 

 

 

On your depth point, this will become very important as it pertains to free agency and comp picks going forward.  You will have depth guys leaving for big contracts in the future.  You will have starters leaving for even bigger contracts knowing that we have adequate back-ups ready to step up and fill in.  This will be very important to allow us to maintain a strong roster year over year as the better managed teams in the league have demonstrated.  Great start to the season for Beane and co...

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

*quickly glances at post counts*

 

 

Hey you know I got short-post Syndrome!??

[Magox]

I agree with most of your analysis but your Singletary take is way off.  He was one of the best players on the field, despite the stats.   Barring injuries, by the end of the season he will lead the team in touches.

[Royale with Cheese]

Let me guess...this one is on Rivers because the ball hit him in the numbers and not on his left shoulder.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

36 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Exactly! No one wants fifty percent around here. 

Especially if you owe him money!!!

[FiftyPercent]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Let me guess...this one is on Rivers because the ball hit him in the numbers and not on his left shoulder.

 

 

That pass is off target, behind.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, FiftyPercent said:

 

That pass is off target, behind.

 

Probably why the Chargers brought in Tyrod....can't have bad passes like this.

[FiftyPercent]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Probably why the Chargers brought in Tyrod....can't have bad passes like this.

 

All you have to do is watch the receivers stride/gate.  I think if you were to ask any QB coach or OC they would say that pass while catchable, is not properly placed.

[Misterbluesky]

41 minutes ago, MR8 said:

 

I thought the TEs did a good job considering the top 3 TEs on the roster all didn't play... no real news is a massive win for them.  Kroft, Knox, and Croom were all inactive, so you have Sweeney a 7th round rookie (who played pretty well considering), Lee Smith, and Keith Towbridge   playing and we don't have negatives to say... IMO that's a win.

 

Sure you'd prefer your TEs to catch passes and make waves, but all things considered, not being a liability is just as good under the situation.

On the first offensive play Josh tossed a perfect ball to Sweeney..if he wasn't held that was a 30 yard play...

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

In all fairness, Allen is probably never going have Brady like accuracy. But while some people are freaking out, I would like to point out:

 

1) We are talking about the first *preseason* game.

2)  Daboll clearly went out of his way to try to work on the passing game. I think the first 8 straight plays were passes, for a team whose construction is best designed to be a balanced attack. I don't think it's a coincidence that the offense opened up once there were a few runs to let the play action work.

3) Smaller sample size skews data. This is why when you have a WR or RB in for a trick play and they throw one pass for a TD why they aren't considered elite in spite of a perfect QBR. Allen is a dropped Zay Jones pass away from 64% completion rate (and possibly a touchdown pass) instead of the lamented "He had 54%!!!!!"

 

[Ittakestime]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Except it was Feliciano that was snapping the ball to Allen. Not Bodine 

 

You are on an entire different wave length and have zero idea what was even being discussed.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, FiftyPercent said:

 

All you have to do is watch the receivers stride/gate.  I think if you were to ask any QB coach or OC they would say that pass while catchable, is not properly placed.

 

 I know the game, I played it.  Yes, it wasn't the perfectly placed ball but it's more than catachable...this needs to be caught 100% of the time or it's a very bad drop on the WR.

Catchable is "got his hands on it, it's slightly difficult but should have been caught".  This is a "no excuses, should have been easily caught".

 

I guess when WR have to deal with the slightest adversity and I mean the slightest....it's okay if they don't catch it?

 

 

[berg1029]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think you are right. I think that this coaching staff values practice much more than it values performance in a vanilla offense in pre-season. That being said McKenzie is legit in the competition for the final roster spot at WR. Wade I don't think is in competition for anything. He gets a practice squad expemption for the year as part of the pathway programme and I expect the Bills to give him the chance to stick for the year as a result but the likelihood is he does that, has a year on the PS and then is released next year in cut downs. 

Next year the running back situation will likely be more open, seeing as we will likely have no more Gore or McCoy.  I think there might be room for a guy like Wade next year, if he's able to continue improving.  Rugby guys have to play both offense and defense.  Granted, he did play wing, which isn't exactly in the thick of things.  But I would bet that he can tackle / play special teams and carve out a role similar to someone like Taiwan Jones.  Plus the added upside of having that incredible burst out of the backfield if he actually gets in games.  If he comes around and finds other ways to contribute, I'd be surprised if doesn't make the team next year.

 

 

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 I know the game, I played it.  Yes, it wasn't the perfectly placed ball but it's more than catachable...this needs to be caught 100% of the time or it's a very bad drop on the WR.

Catchable is "got his hands on it, it's slightly difficult but should have been caught".  This is a "no excuses, should have been easily caught".

 

I guess when WR have to deal with the slightest adversity and I mean the slightest....it's okay if they don't catch it?

 

 

 

This discussion is akin to when a food critic visits a Michelin-star Chef's restaurant and claims the signature dish is overcooked and bland.  The customer knows that it was delicious, the chef knows it was delicious, but the food critic has to criticize something.

[FiftyPercent]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 I know the game, I played it.  Yes, it wasn't the perfectly placed ball but it's more than catachable...this needs to be caught 100% of the time or it's a very bad drop on the WR.

Catchable is "got his hands on it, it's slightly difficult but should have been caught".  This is a "no excuses, should have been easily caught".

 

I guess when WR have to deal with the slightest adversity and I mean the slightest....it's okay if they don't catch it?

 

 

 

I mean, it's probability.  The more well placed balls, the better odds the ball is caught.

[Doc]

Not sure they can trust Zay any more.  You can't be dropping perfect passes like that one.  I think he just may be fighting for a roster spot at this point.

[jletha]

5 minutes ago, FiftyPercent said:

 

I mean, it's probability.  The more well placed balls, the better odds the ball is caught.

Of course thats true but in your opinion, looking at that Rivers throw, what percentage is that on Rivers and what percentage is that on the WR that the ball was not caught?

 

[Lurker]

36 minutes ago, FiftyPercent said:

 

That pass is off target, behind.

 

That is a typical NFL pass that an NFL receiver should have no problem hauling in...

[FiftyPercent]

3 minutes ago, jletha said:

Of course thats true but in your opinion, looking at that Rivers throw, what percentage is that on Rivers and what percentage is that on the WR that the ball was not caught?

 

 

That ball is caught likely a high percentage of the time by NFL receivers. However, if the ball is placed so the gate of the WR does not have to change, the completion % of that play increases.

[John from Riverside]

33 minutes ago, FiftyPercent said:

 

All you have to do is watch the receivers stride/gate.  I think if you were to ask any QB coach or OC they would say that pass while catchable, is not properly placed.

I think your missing the point

ALL qbs.....and I dont care which one you point to.....Brady...Manning...Rivers....whoever...they ALL throw bad passes.

 

The difference is that THEIR recievers make plays for them....so the bad passes get forgotten.....and ppl just look to the box score.

 

Wanna know what I liked from last night?   Put Cole Beasely to work....used a short gain receiver which he did not do a lot last year....didnt immediately take off and run....and didnt take hits.   Its called progression.

[VW82]

I haven't watched the game yet (taping later tonight on NFLN) but I think we can safely say Josh Allen didn't have a great night. He finished 6/11 for only 66 yards and 0 points. People keep talking about Zay's drop. WRs drop the ball sometimes. Good QBs find them enough that it doesn't matter. We clearly tried to put the ball in Allen's hands and unlike his 2018 draft class counterparts his offense didn't produce.  

Edited August 9, 2019 by VW82

[SoTier]

Nice OP, Gunner.  I generally agree. 

 

Overall, the defense looks pretty good, both the first and second units. 

 

I was disappointed with the passing game, but not necessarily with Allen.  I think he looks to be about where he should be considering his play last season and all he has to learn/improve.  He was no where near being a polished passer like Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen.  2019 may be the first time he's had first rate QB coaching.  He didn't have that in college, and David Culley had never been a QB coach in the NFL until he joined the Bills.  He's making better decisions and working on his mid/short game while staying in the pocket, which isn't his natural inclination.   It's easy to be accurate when you throw a lot of short passes/dump offs like Darnold and Rosen do.  It's harder to pinpoint downfield passes.

 

I'm pretty disappointed with the WR corps.  As somebody already mentioned, Foster does not look to be as good as he was last season which is a big problem because I think that at least some of Allen's accuracy issues would be resolved with more sure-handed targets.  Getting another WR that puts Zay Jones on the bench or off the Bills roster entirely needs to be a top priority for the Bills in 2020 if they can't find somebody this season.  He's just not good enough to be a starting WR in the NFL.  Isaiah McKenzie looked sure-handed but I'm not sure about the rest of his game  or his durability.  He looks to be almost too small to be playing in the NFL: standing beside Matt Barkley on the sideline, Barkley was at least a head taller and Barkley's only about 6'2" or so.

Edited August 9, 2019 by SoTier